cont'd ...

I remember only too well when I was growing up -
how at school I was told that I would not
succeed academically. At that time I had some
problems with some subjects due to my lack in the
English language. We spoke Russian and Lithuanian
at home. Anyway, within a very short time - I
mastered English with no problems and majored in
it at University. I ended up with several degrees.
Thanks to some very determined teachers and my
family - who instilled in me the belief that I
could do anything if I set my mind to it.

That's the kind of support and belief in themselves
that all young people need. And the naysayers
will simply become hot air - that comes and goes.
They won't matter at all in the big scheme of things.

Dearest Foxy,

Thanks for those inspiring stories. Yes, many Indigenous people go on to post-graduate study - currently, the transfer rate is about 44 %. So those 58,000 Indigenous university graduates may well have some ninety thousand awards (bachelor, masters, Ph.D) behind them. Some have more than one or two: a couple of graduates I know, brother and sister, have three degrees, three graduate diplomas and three Masters' between them. So maybe the total is closer to a hundred thousand.

The federal Education Department data massively under-states these figures. I've always suspected that they under-counted Indigenous numbers, perhaps by as much as thirty or even forty per cent. The discrepancy between combined annual figures over five years from the Education Department, and the growth in Census numbers over the same five years, is closer to forty per cent. Partly this may because Indigenous students may not tick the box 'Indigenous' or 'Aboriginal' etc., and partly it may be due to keying-in errors.

So, if the Education Department figures were adjusted accordingly, the numbers of indigenous people commencing award-level study (not those in bridging or preparation courses) would top ten thousand this year (the 20-year-old age-group would number around 14,000 across Australia, north and south, city, rural and remote), with a total of more than 24,000 Indigenous students enrolled, overwhelmingly in mainstream degree-level and PG courses.

Currently, about 46-48 % of all commencers eventually graduate, mostly in the minimum time. So in the next four years, fifteen to twenty thousand more Indigenous students will graduate: we'll see in the next Census, out in 2022. God, that must get up the noses of people like Altrav and Ttbn, I'm glad to say :). Tens of thousands of Blackfellas who won't stay down.

Love,

Joe

Paul, I don't run from a fight, so if someone is putting me down after I have left the room, I WILL come back and shirt front them, because I do not subscribe to gutless wonders who find courage behind a locked gate.
Now to you Foxy, your incessant drivel is not helpful.
You speak as if for the whole abo community.
You are discriminating against the the rest of the population who are not abo's with your soap box rhetoric.
Your can bluster on as much as you like with your self serving misguidance about 'you can do anything you want, don't listen to anyone saying otherwise'.
Rubbish!
Just because you saying it, makes you feel justified and accomplished, as if, 'my work here is done', is absolutely not the case, and any psych will tell you, and it is again, misleading and counter productive.
If a person is capable of something they will achieve it without your patronising, self serving, 'bad', advise.
I can't believe how you cannot see that your mindset is a discriminatory and 'self righteous' one.
You arrogantly patronise people in the belief they 'need your advice'.
According to who?
Please take it back a notch, I might be offensive and crass and all the things I am accused of, but you and some others are becoming a real strain in trying to tolerate all this self ingratiation and back patting.
It's annoying and shows a very immature side of you all that is definitely unbecoming a person of maturity and assuredness.
And I know you guys will do anything to stop me from being right.

Jesus, Loudmouth, do you read your comments.
It seems you will, typically, say anything to make your point and present it as fact, where-as I do present facts, with follow up reasoning.
Are you seriously going to present a litany of flawed facts and lies about abo uni attendee's in direct contradiction of the education dept's or for that matter even the govt's data on abo, uni numbers.
You have become so desperate that now you have proven my charge that you guys suffer from (as I've said before), 'CONFIRMATION BIAS'!
You have just made my case for me.
AGAIN!

Altrav,

I'm well aware of confirmation bias :)

Not sure what you are going on about. You can check out annual figures on the ed. dept's web-site: https://www.education.gov.au/higher-education-statistics

and the Census data on: http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/D3310114.nsf/Home/Census?OpenDocument&ref=topBar

Yes, I know, what you will find won't confirm your bias, so I expect that you'll ignore it. Or explain it all away - that no Indigenous person is really Indigenous, that they're all doing useless courses, and anyway university education is so unnecessary. Etc., etc., etc.

I try to take my data where I can find it, and adjust for inevitable inaccuracies if possible, in order to get some sort of ball-park figures. Since data on university participation is upgraded each year, and usually about one year behind (the latest figures are for 2017, so the latest attrition calculations would be for 2016, for example), it's always a moving feast.

Still, there the figures are. I realise that they don't confirm what you already believe, but there you go. One problem, Altrav, is that there aren't any figures that DO confirm your biases - unless, of course , you can present them ?

Ah, I see, you don't have to, because nobody is Indigenous ? Certainly not anybody at university ? And anyway, what a waste of time to go to uni. And anyway, we can't compare with overseas universities (apart from a couple coming in the top 1 % on world rankings: 1 % ? Pah !)

Classic confirmation bias !

Any other whinge ? Sometimes I read bits of your posts, but so far I haven't learnt anything, except how great thou art, what a genius, a paragon, someone who succeeds in spite of all the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.

Paul, speaking of which, whatever happened to that wonderful NZ series ? My sister taped it all, so next time I go over, I'll have a feast.

Joe

ALTRAV,

It may come as a surprise to you but a person's identity
be it Aboriginal, or Torres Strait Islander,
or Lithuanian, or Italian, or Patagonian, is
something that is personal to them. They don't need our
approval or confirmation to identify as such.

Also, no matter what either of us argue - the Australian
Government has confirmed that a person of Aboriginal or
Torres Strait Islander descent who identifies as
Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander and is accepted as
such by the community in which they live is considered
to be Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander.

You may not agree with that or like it - but it does not
matter or count in any way at all. It is after all just
your opinion to which of course you are entitled. It is
your right to think whatever you like. And it is our right
to ignore it.

As for putting you down? Frankly - you do a very good job
of that yourself.

Dear Joe,

For me this discussion has now run its course.
I look forward to our next discussion.
In the meantime, hopefully things will continue on
onwards and upwards -
for our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander
people.

I've just read in the Christmas 2018 edition of the
Australian Women's Weekly (page 70 onwards) an
article on the Central Australian Aboriginal Women's
Choir. An amazing story. They have travelled to Europe
and America, performed to standing ovations at the
Sydney Opera House and is the subject of the award
winning documentary film, "The Song Keepers."
They have also perhaps evoked more tears, both of
joy and grief, than any other vocal ensemble in the
world. It was well worth a read.