ALTRAV

//Now do you know the definition of imbecile?
Well look it up.//

You either presume I do not know the definition of imbecile, in that case you are wrong, I do without looking it up. Or you are so presumptuous that you believe I do know the definition of imbecile, and by your command I must look it up. Which I would not do simply on your instruction. I can see how wrong you are, now who is the imbecile?

ALTRAV, Lets answer the rest of your questions.

//What kind of stupid logic do you believe in?//

I do not believe in any kind of stupid logic. I hope that is a satisfactory answer.

//I'm supposed to do what, with that?// Nothing, have I asked you to do something with "that", I do not believe I have ever asked you to do anything with, "that".

//You're taking the piss, right?// Wrong.

//this is another witticism, right? Wrong.

You are not getting much right are you. Well we are out of questions. Like any more answers, just ask the questions

No Paul, enough.
Debating with certain people is like riding a 'merry-go-round'.
I've had enough fun for one topic, and the rhetoric is causing nausea, like the merry-go-round.
This is where I get off and wait for another topic to 'ride'.

ALTRAV, eat ginger, and keep away from merry-go-rounds. That is my opinion.

I've had enough fun for one topic, this is where I get off and wait for another topic to 'ride'. Alternatively you could pull the wings off flies, same result.

Hi Paul,

Yes, it's facts that matter. As the revered ancient Roman law experts put it: 'Asseritur gratis, negatur gratis'. Which I think means: he who asserts without evidence, can be ignored or denied without any need for evidence. Literally: 'what is asserted freely can be denied freely'.

Of course, anyone can express any opinion, no matter how imbecilic, but evidence strengthens an opinion and makes it worth paying attention to.

For example, whether some people like it or not, some six or seven hundred thousand people in Australia, almost all with some Indigenous ancestry, honestly regard themselves - and are regarded by others - as Indigenous. Most likely, they simply don't know of any specific ancestors EXCEPT Indigenous ones. Certainly, my late wife didn't. But she knew a multitude of Indigenous relations, passing through. They are Indigenous Australians. They are of Indigenous ancestry AND they are Australians.

Of those 600-700,000 Indigenous people, there are around 400-450,000 adults. Of those, there are around 58,000 university graduates. About one in every seven or eight adults. These facts can be readily confirmed from government web-sites.

Some people may have an un-supported opinion that, if an Indigenous person has non-Indigenous ancestry, they are thereby not Indigenous. A few decades ago, it worked the other way around, and everybody knew it. As far as I am concerned, if an Italian-Australian had some NON-Italian ancestry but if he called himself or herself 'Italian-Australian', that's fine with me. He or she has that choice, which would be doubly affirmed if he or he isn't know any relations except his Italian-Australian ones.

Sometimes, facts and opinion blur into each other. But the more reliance on evidence, the stronger the opinion can be.

Joe

Dear Joe and Paul,

Of course facts do matter. The Australian Museum
in Sydney, the oldest museum in Australia, with
an international reputation and involved in Indigenous
studies research tells us that Aboriginal and Torres
Strait Islander peoples do not define their Aboriginality
by skin colour or percentage of blood.

Their identities are complex and diverse across Australia
and encompass many aspects and contexts that ultimately make up
who they are.

This may include connections to place/country. language groups,
value systems and Indigenous ways of knowing and being.

Indigenous Australians have developed a working definition which
was then adopted by the Australian Government to define an
Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander person as;

1)A person who has Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander
descent; who also

2) Identifies as an Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander
person; and

3) Is accepted as such by the Aboriginal and/or
Torres Strait Islander community in which they live
(or come from).

Joe, Thank You for sharing your vast knowledge acquired
through your own research over these many years. Through
your many publications, through the work that you and
your late wife have done at the University of
Adelaide, and elsewhere, through your own Indigenous
family. Your knowledge and experience is undeniable
and has to be acknowledged and respected. You know what
you are talking about.