I am so sick to death of news reports of murders, rapes assaults & robberies committed criminals on bail, or on parole. Yet another today of a young girl raped by a known rapist, out on bail for another rape. How much evidence that these people should be off the street do these magistrates need?

It appears that magistrates can't bring themselves to do their job of protecting the community from these horrors. Perhaps we can force them to do their job by making it apply to them too.

We should now legislate to charge magistrates & parole board members with any crime committed by someone they have released. Perhaps if they were to share the penalty for such crimes themselves they might remember it is innocent members of the public who suffer the result of their excess kindness to criminals.

I'm sure such a law would sharpen their judgement on the likelihood of criminals committing further offences if released.

Who knows, it might even get the bleeding heart legal eagles to resign, & allow the appointment of people capable of doing the job properly.

Hear, hear. Magistrates and judges seem to be too frightened to perform the jobs they are paid to do: protecting society from scum. Cowards the lot of them!

It's interesting how small crims are charged after "helping police" often the same day. The Big Brother Banks do huge crim stuff which the regulator knew about and ignored . Reluctantly the Libs allowed a R Commission costing $!*%#&(mill which hears what the newspapers have published for years , have an interim report $@(%& , then final report $ 2x #%$^& and Plmt has a think about it , writes a policy and thinks about it. The execs may be charged , poor darlings. ...really?

Hasbeen,

One of my favourite TV programs is the British -"Justice
John Deed." It's a real eye-opener as to how politicised
the Justice System is in the UK. I suspect it's the same
here. Not all magistrates are the same of course, but
I'm sure that politics plays a big part in sentencing.

Not a great fan of banks, or any other financial institution myself Nick.

However I have never yet heard of any of them raping some 2 year old girl, while out on bail.

Hasbeen agree, even had thread after thread here saying the same.
A vile thing we call PC needs removing from our legal system.
Courthouse acts of weeping mums too
Put a base minimum time to be served.
Never ever grant bail, but ensure every case is heard fast, let us elect Magistrates and Judges, and let us recall them/sack them for soft sentences
That seven year old girl in Sydney was harmed by a person on parole, police failed to report he reoffended

personally I think castration for child molestors and capital punishment for other horrendeous crimes should take place. Singapore seems to have it right.

Do you know the original rape ? "The most serious sex offences include sexual intercourse with a child under 10 years of age. . a maximum penalty of life imprisonment." If it was a child under 16 it's 14 years jail. If the next offense was not reported by police it may not be possible to keep him permanently locked up. Should every rape get life in jail?

Simple solution. Remove bail.

Bail is a ridiculous and offensive notion - why should anybody be able to buy their freedom with cash? It's always seemed to me like institutionalised bribery.

We have a Legal System in Australia but do not have a Justice System.

rache true, totally true
You know why, I know why, we do not care enough to demand better
Unless the child is ours we damn the perp and move on
Courts, jobs for the upper middle class, do not even try to represent our wishes
PC the enemy of free speech, bends the victim over and see,s only the perp as in need of help

Foxy you should never mistake fiction for real life. If you start believing fiction written by people with an emotive position, you are being conned.

I don't watch soaps, like that one or any other, as I know it is just a couple of writers twisted belief of the truth. They are pushing a certain political view through their fiction, & I am not interested in their view, or their fiction.

Hasbeen,

Have you ever watched "Judge John Deed?"
Because if you haven't then you're not in
any position to pass judgement on the program.

As for writers? It is writers with their
concern for the human condition and their
special skills with language, can enable us
to imagine some horrific realities and nerve
us to try to solve some of societies' problems -
such as better legislation affecting both
our justice and our penal systems.

Toni Lavis Quote "Bail is a ridiculous and offensive notion"

When it comes to making stupid comments without first thinking about all the implications you get first prize.

1st You don't seem to take into account the notion of innocent until proven guilty.

2nd The prisons and police watch houses would be full in one day if every shoplifter, petty thief etc was locked up till their appointed court date. Any crime where a penalty notice could not be issued.

So how about thinking about it for a while and come back with a more reasoned comment.

By the way you have still have not replied to your other blatantly wrong accusation you made before. here is the link so you can go back and admit you were wrong.
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=8524&page=0#270802

Toni here is your comment, the above link is my reply to it,

Quote
//allowing refugees holidays to Fiji, healthcare, free housing and jobs.//

I find that hard to believe. Nauru is an economic basket case:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauru#Economy

Unemployment at 90% and they're giving free housing and jobs to refugees? Pull the other one, President Waqa, it plays Jingle Bells.

Why does the Daily Mail bother printing this crap? And why do people accept it as gospel when it's obvious bollocks?
Posted by Toni Lavis, Friday, 16 November 2018 4:23:59 PM

Yes I've seen enough of it to not be impressed with the story of a pretentious little man with ideas of grandeur, who thinks he knows everything.

The problem with authors is too many are like your judge, with greatly inflated ideas of their own worth.

The only fiction I can handle is science fiction, where the authors know they are dreaming, & make no claim of great insight into the human condition. Why anyone would take notice of people who live in fairy land, but take themselves seriously, I really can't imagine

Foxy I watch the show and feel it is a window in to how some justice is dished out
We are kittens playing with a ball of string, keeping us away from the very real truth some we think hand down justice make fortunes by doing the opposite

Hasbeen,

I can't understand how you can interpret Judge John
Deed as being "a little man with delusions of
grandeur." He bucks the system all the time and
fights for the underdog trying to get at the truth -
and change legislation as is necessary.
And of course a lot of times the system does not let him succeed.
It's "edge of your seat" watching - and shows how corrupt
the system can be. And how difficult it is to try to make
changes.

Still this just goes to show how we can put our own
interpretations onto things - and why our opinions vary
and the best that can be done is for us to go according
to the law - even if justice may not always be done.
The law remains the law. However justices (and us) can
try to have unfair legislation changed. Honest justices
are to be commended not brushed aside.

Foxy to me Judge John Deed is just another Rumpole of the Bailey from a slightly different vantage point, with a different accent.

Both are designed to play on the same audience, in the same way. The plots are so contrived as to be painful.

I feel insulted that I am expected to fall for the tripe.

If a bar-tender serves alcohol to someone who's inebriated and that someone then causes mayhem, the bar-keep can be charged with negligence. If a building inspector approves a structure that subsequently falls down, they can be sued for their professional failures.(Almost) anyone who fails in their duty of care to protect others can be sued under the tort of negligence - except certain protected groups. The law is foremost in those protected groups. I wonder if the fact that most politicians are lawyers is a reason why lawyers are protected?

Rather than " charge magistrates & parole board members with any crime committed by someone they have released" we should simply allow the law of negligence to apply to the law officers as well. If they are certain that this or that person isn't a danger to the community then by all means give them parole. But if their 'expert' judgement turns out to be wrong, then let the victims claim compensation for the damages caused by their failed judgement.

Those involved in the prison system have an incentive to give early release to those in gaol. After all, part of their job is rehabilitation and they want to believe they've successfully rehabilitated this or that offender. But there's currently little disincentive to early release because there's no personal consequences for being wrong.

Create some personal consequences and they'll be a lot less gung-ho and cavalier about offering early release.

Dear Belly,

I don't know the complexities involved with our laws
but I imagine that it's not an easy job trying to
decipher them. Certainly some of our magistrates do
appear to be too lenient - and how do we "fix"
this is a question that will probably perplex our
courts for quite some time.

The amazing story of Skase and his passport :
"According to a 1998 ABC program Four Corners, Skase was moving money into foreign bank accounts from July 1989. Despite efforts lasting more than a decade, Max Donnelly, the creditors' trustee, was unable to trace much of the missing money. Skase demanded that Qintex board pay $13.5 million to a private company that he owned. The board refused to ratify the payment, but soon discovered that the payment had already been made. Skase then demanded the board give him a pay rise, and threatened to resign if he did not receive it. In the end, Skase was more than $700 million in debt. He was charged briefly arrested and spent a night in jail. However, he was subsequently released and allowed to regain his passport."

The sensible thing would be to charge the judge $700 million.

Foxy yes even a few minutes research will uncover reasons we should be unhappy with
CURRENT from NSW one magistrate is charged with over sentencing far too many.
NSW Police let a man on parole for sexual assault walk free after another charge
He is before the courts for? sexual assault of a seven year old child
Nothing is to be gained by our justice system failing to deliver the level of justice we demand

Dear Belly,

I think that what mhaze has suggested is excellent.
What do you think?

Well, any Magistrates that haven't attended Uni ?
No, I didn't think so.
It's time the Uni culture of dumbing down people who aspire for higher office is being investigated.

This is always an emotive issue. The extreme will call for tougher penalises for offenders in virtually all cases, there is no evidence that tougher sentencing reduces crime. Sometimes the extreme seem more intent on wanting to satisfy their own blood lust than anything to do with justice. There often is community outrage with sentencing, unfortunately not being in passion of the full facts in the matter, getting it from a 30 second grab on the 6 o'clock news is generally talking from a point of ignorance. Not forgetting there is the Crowns right of appeal in most cases, if the sentence appears to be manifestly inadequate.
No justice system is perfect, but ours appears to be better than most.

'there is no evidence that tougher sentencing reduces crime.'

I am sure some peered reviewed study says so. Singapore shows repeating such dogma is nonsense.

Do try to grow up Paul.

When locked up, people don't commit offences against the general public.

A nice big prison camp, in the middle of the Simpson desert, with all three strikers locked up for a minimum of 10 years would have a dramatic effect on the crime rate. It might even have some deterrent effect as a fortunate side effect.

Done properly it would also massively reduce the breeding of the next generation of criminals.

Paul please consider
VOTERS are people,most, yes most are not committed to any party
MOST are unhappy with our justice system
We ignore them at our peril, we chanted our unhappiness with Howard's boat people lies
Voters adopted them,we of the center and left of it say ScoMo is dog whistling on terrorism, it costs us votes
Far more agree with him,we will never ever, win as many voters as we see lost, by embracing policies voters will never want
Tell that seven year old girl, her mum and dad, me, police the law courts, our justice system did not let he down in fact betray her
Room exists in politics for reality, even unwanted truths

Penalties do work-if they're applied !

An old fool full of crackpot ideas, Hasbeen you need to wake up before you can grow up. What a stupid suggestion;

//A nice big prison camp, in the middle of the Simpson desert, with all three strikers locked up for a minimum of 10 years//

Would not bother telling the moron why such an idiotic plan is only slightly more feasible than the same thing on the Moon.

This clown sitting on his plot of dirt somewhere tending the geraniums, also believes its a good idea to nuk 200 million innocent men women and children in Pakistan. Now its a controlled breeding program //Done properly it would also massively reduce the breeding of the next generation of criminals//

The only difference between you and Hitler is, Hitler got the opportunity to implement his nasty ideas. At your age you have probably missed the boat!

Hasbeens idea of criminals over looks bankers no doubt and that shows some of us are unfit to judge others

Paul is obviously terrified of real prison terms for law breakers. Half his lot would never get out again.

No problem with sticking law breaking bankers out in the desert Belly. They might not like the company though, if we stuck the union bosses who ripped off their membership for personal & head office gain where they belong.

Hasbeen gday ever considered writing? fantasy seems your area
Worth running your thoughts by the truth filter
Just under two hours before votes begin to be counted
Your unstable stable ran with the so call red shirt scandal
Seasoned it with fear and loathing of a phantom debt creating ALP
And believe me you mob got flogged
it no longer works, the view that is that every worker who is in a union is evil
IF it did the biggest union in Australia, representing the very rich, or those wanting an economy that sees low wages and living standards for workers would be out front
that union is the LNP again today voters got it right

"I think that what mhaze has suggested is excellent.
What do you think?"

Thanks for that Foxy. I've had this view for a while now and have done some research and pondering on it. I certainly think it is the best way to resolve the problem of the systemic bias toward inappropriate early release and/or bail. The whole issue is fraught since one doesn't want to keep good or rehabilitated people locked up for a moment longer than necessary. But this would, I feel, go a long way to ensuring that only those who should unequivocally be released, are released.

No response from Belly et al on your question. It looks like they prefer to chase Paul_etc down the rabbit hole where they are more comfortable allotting blame to their favourite baddies. It seems Belly isn't interested in perusing answers to his original question, just whining about it.

mhaze seems you like self amusement
I actually agree with you but have been answering other posts
will try better
off to watch the vote counting

mhaze,

Your suggestions make so much sense and
I think it would definitely help towards
alleviating the problem.

Once again Thank You.

ScoMo [MiniMe] has called the Victorian election a great victory, and told those who lost they should have let him help

There is a difference between the bar-tender, the building inspector and a magistrate, or a parole board member. In the first two, negligence before the fact can be determined. In the other two cases you are asking for crystal ball gazing. No one can give a categorical undertaking that a person at the end of their sentence or on parole are not going to re-offend. How do you prove they were negligent in the first place.

The suggestion that "charge magistrates & parole board members with any crime committed by someone they have released" is ridiculous in the extreme. If a bank robber commits murder after their release, then some legal person should be charged with murder. If a person sells a car to another who has a bad driving record, and the buyer through their stupidity runs down and kills a pedestrian, then the seller of the car should also be charged?

Paul1405,

"you are asking for crystal ball gazing"

No,we are saying that they, claiming professional expertise, be held accountable when their expertise is shown to have failed. None of it is or should be "crystal ball gazing". It is about applying their claimed professional knowledge to assess whether there is a danger to others. The bar-keep who assesses that someone can have another drink and still won't be a danger is legally negligent if they turn out to be wrong. Those who assess someone can have early release based on their professional assessment that the person won't be a danger to others, should be open to being found legally negligent if they turn out to be wrong.

"How do you prove they were negligent in the first place."

In court. Just as the barkeep or building inspector would still have a chance to defend themselves in court.

" No one can give a categorical undertaking that a person at the end of their sentence or on parole are not going to re-offend. "

I'm not talking about people at the end of their sentence. They get out no matter what. Done their time - end of story. But if you can't be certain, absolutely certain, that they won't re-offend, then don't give them early release. Just hoping it'll all work out is putting the community under undue danger.

A person who has been found guilty and imprisoned, shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt - the community should get the benefit of the doubt.

Hi mhaze,

I understand your point,

//if you can't be certain, absolutely certain, that they won't re-offend, then don't give them early release//

No one can be absolutely certain, they can only have a degree of certainty, for argument sake that could be 99% but its not 100%. Then who would want to be on a parole board given your own freedom is based on the future actions of an ex-con. Parole boards should take into account the probability of re-offending before a person is released.

BTW, I have done the RSA certificate and one point made was trying to determine if someone is intoxicated, even down to where a person with a physical impairment whose not drunk, and if refused, has a case to sue, that is a fact. Things are okay where there are measurable standards, like in the case of a building inspector, but when it more or less subjective its hard to apply guilt. To say you have to meet "community expectations" in this parole board job or else, is again a hard thing to enforce, what are "community expectations".

I can see both sides Paul's view suffers in some minds only because he votes green
Silly reason but true, I hold my hands up, my emotions get in the way on this subject.
I think the communities do too
Fair enough tougher sentencing has not stopped the crime, but it did stop that offender
How are our justice givers trained, what must they know, can many/any of them say the understand what the community expects
How do we handle pederphiles, sex offenders,domestic violence re offenders?
Is there merit in making prisons a true place of re-education?
Do we all understand what ever yesterdays Victorian election was it was a rejection of law and order fear and loathing

The Victorian election I don't think was a rejection
of law and order. It was more of a rejection of the
low road of fear and division. It was
more on delivery on promises
and not cutting essential services. Victorians
overwhelmingly endorsed a positive and optimistic
plan for the state.

Hi Belly,

Congrats to the Labor Party on a resounding victory yesterday in Vic. Strong Labor vote at 43%. Now for NSW in March, and that hopeless conservative government there. ScuMo and the train wreck in Canberra, calling it a government would be to kind. needs the boot ASAP.

Belly, its not my "because he votes green" I held the same opinions when I voted Labor, as do many Labor voting civil libertarians agree. I'm in favour of justice for all, victims and perpetrators. I see jail as the last option, or when there is no reasonable alternative. Keeping people out of jail by not having them re-offend is the best course of action, but sadly many commit crime because they have little else in life. Young offenders starting out, should be given better alternatives through education, training and job opportunities.

The lock em' up and throw away the key mentality does nothing to reduce crime, if social factors are breeding more criminals by the day. The US is a perfect example of a mostly affluent society, but with great social divides between its citizens. The US has tough penalties for offenders, that is a fact, but it also has a very high crime rate compared to others. The crime rate is a result of social injustice, not because of it.

Foxy and Paul, lets be frank, first my thought is and remains, fear and loathing is the first tool used by conservatives
And that they put massive effort in to the Labor is weak on law and order, it failed
A thread may get a run, about the election, here the frankness starts.
It remains my firm view the Liberal right is far out in front of its voters
Too that only in Queensland, the birth place of one nation, is that right salable
I fear but believe a day will come when small l Liberals again run their party they will be extremely hard to remove.
Paul age has bought different view to me,I think center path in all things is best.
You like us all, cop heaps because of our views about politics
on a bad night last night, you still out poll the Nationals and usually one nation out side QLD
Leadership let you down,like NSW a question must be answered is your party currently reflecting what Bob Brown wanted it to?

If being stupid was an indictable offence Victoria would now be one massive prison.

Individual,

On the contrary. Fear campaigns and that kind of rhetoric
does not convince the more sophisticated electorates of
Victoria. Those tactics alienate people in this state.
Perhaps you're thinking of Queensland?

Foxy,
really ? sophisticated ? And, where will those sophisticated move to after the VIC Labor economy is in tatters again ?

Yep, you guessed it, they all migrate to Qld & wreck our job market again as per usual.

Hi Belly,

Bob Brown is not the Greens, and the Greens are not Bob Brown, two different colours. Although no one did more than Bob in forming the Greens, firstly in Tasmania and then Australia wide, the party owes him a debt of gratitude that is for certain.

I'm not concerned with the 9% Green vote in Vic, of course I would love it to be 15%, the number that I like to see is the overall progressive vote which is around 52%, well ahead of the conservatives. I see no competition between the various progressive parties of which the Labor party is by far the biggest, and the one to form government. Our side of politics, unlike the conservative side needs to remain united with the common goal of seeing good progressive government at all levels.

Interesting, 'Pig Iron' Bob was careful when forming his new party to call it the Liberal party, not the Conservative party. One thing the old bastard did get right was Australians were too egalitarian to accept a class based party like they have in England. By the standards of the day, many party members were liberal, although like all successful parties Bob needed his party to be broad based and accommodate various factions. Now the hard conservative faction is biting the bigger liberal faction on the arse.

BTW. Where is that much touted Corny Banana and his group of fascists, calling themselves The Australian Conservatives, all piss and wind in my book.

p.s I would be very disappointed if the Green vote was 9%, and the Labor vote 30%, then I would be crying.

Individual,

In Victoria we support governments if they do
things that improve our lives. It sounds obvious, but
it can be forgotten in the drama of politics and
campaigns. Daniel Andrews stated in his
victory speech - that his government had focused on the
practical upgrading of hospitals, new schools, the
removal of level crossings, and a huge infrastructure
program. People will overlook many failings if they
see things happening, particularly in a city like
Melbourne straining under record population growth.
If a government lives its values, keeps its promises
and gets things done - well, Victorians will re-elect
that government. It would be stupid not to.

In Queensland - you may prefer to keep your money
out of reach - we prefer to see it spent on essential
services.

"If being stupid was an indictable offence Victoria would now be one massive prison."

Sir Joh announced he would take on the Labor socialists in Canberra and destroy them. An inquiry was chaired by Tony Fitzgerald QC and lead to Sir Joh being charged with perjury and the jailing of police commissioner Terry Lewis.

Bids to silence the media.

The cabinet documents revealed the lengths the Queensland government went to pressure media outlets who aired claims of corruption against it. The Courier-Mail's Phil Dickie set off the chain of events by exposing an illegal prostitution racket. Months later ABC TV's Moonlight State, aired on Four Corners, linked the illegal sex trade and government staffers.

Sir Joh had proposed to swap Queensland coal in exchange for Romanian-built trains and oil .In December 1989, Nicolae and Elena Ceausescu were executed by firing squad at a military base in Romania

Controversial development applications went ahead under the recommendation of so-called 'minister for everything' Russ Hinze, with the Queensland government over-ruling local councils to the benefit of developers. Mr Hinze used his power to rezone the Queen Street Mall in Brisbane's CBD without following due process, because the developer feared regular town planning rules would attract objections and delay the project. While it was never written in the cabinet documents, some in the ministry opposed the project and accusations of corruption were levelled against Sir Joh. It would be alleged that he resigned because MPs were set to tell the media that Sir Joh was to receive a bribe if the tower went ahead. Mike Ahern was appointed premier and said "Joh relied for this power on a rigged electoral system that is grossly offensive to fundamental democratic rights."

Paul not knocking your party but in truth NSW has been a minefield.
Victoria needed even harsher and earlier action on both the rape and other event
Could not have come at a worse time
You know I share your opinion on ultra conservative insanity
Like tea party then Trump, American republicans are filling their party with like minded candidates.
Ultra Liberals are doing that here
Talk of protecting the base[SKY News deception] ignores a truth they walk away from their base

Indy you are aware your words and stance highlight you not victorian voters
Is everyone wrong but you'
really
truly
think about it

nicknamenick,
you believe what you wrote ? Do you know why Fitzgerald acted the way he did ?
Don't look like it from what I've heard.
Talk to some older QLD Police Officers.

OK
Why did . he .act the way. he .did?

Hi again Belly,

We have retired to Queensland, to be closer to our mokopuna (grandchildren etc etc etc). Seen a low flying ding bat up here this evening, not sure if its name was Indy or Hassy, but like that pair I don't think it knew where it was going either!

Hi Foxy,

//we prefer to see it spent on essential services.//

To the anointed ones, (see the low flying ding bat comment), that is Bolshe talk. It could see you spending 10 years plus in the Simpson Desert Maximum Security Reeducation Facility, alone with the 10 million other Australians who have committed the same crime. All under the guardianship of Commandant Hasbeen.

OK
Why did . he .act the way. he .did?
nicknamenick,
Ask some older Qld Police Officers, search the Net. Forums are ok to speculate and/or draw attention to popular misconception but that's as far as we can go.

Individual I have nothing against you old mate, we have swapped verbal insults for a long time.
But you denial of NNN truth is telling
YOU prove my point SOME in QLD are extremists but not even close to well informed
Voters get it right, the Victorian Liberals may as well have stood out side the golden arches on a day they gave away free hamburgers, trying to sell rotten fish
Nothing can change that
Paul early days but grim in the upper house, current predictions, not confirmed, greens down to one seat, LNP lost 6, Hinch picked up 4, miro preference mining parties win a heap.
Reinforcing my view upper houses are not democratic
Labor 19, ScoMo can still win the next election, but not without understanding why this took place

individual

Yeah I rang around and set up a meeting at ( Sir) Terry Lewis big-house but got a tip-off:

Queensland CRIMINAL CODE 1899 - SECT 77B
Habitually consorting with recognised offenders
77B Habitually consorting with recognised offenders
(1) A person commits a misdemeanour if—
(a) the person habitually consorts with at least 2 recognised offenders, whether together or separately;
.
Penalty: Maximum penalty—300 penalty units or 3 years imprisonment.

Belly,
No denial to nnn here. As you're aware Qld has a Labor Govt at present & therefore I can't expect any justice in the event of information getting out that is too close to the bone.

& therefore I can't expect any information getting out .

Indy never the less the results of the Victorian election seem to be a rejection of policy you call for
Today,s poll too seems to tell us they currently are less than pleased with federal Conservatives
You maybe interested, every one should be, in ABC online news site Victorian election site
Shows a long list of minor party,s got some votes, wasted votes
Socialist Australia, surely a group of unsound mind, got 0.4 percent
What did those voters think?
better to put the ballot in the waste bin.
Rejecting voters selection is quite amusing

individual says "If being stupid was an indictable offence Victoria would now be one massive prison."
"Don't look like it from what I've heard.
Talk to some older QLD Police Officers. "

So the justice system is rigged? Or not ? Please explain...

Yeah, some of the old fools from Queensland were 'ALL THE WAY WITH JBP'. Today they don't like to admit it, while they were kissing arse they were being done over big time! Everyone else in Australia could see what was happening in Queensland, but not those fools. Isn't that right Indy, and where is Hassy, he's another one. "Don't you worry about that!" and they believed it.

Hi Belly,

I don't believe ScuMo has a snow flakes chance in hell of winning the next election. The Australian public has had a gut full of these self serving bastards, and they are demanding change.

Dear Belly,and Paul,

People support governments if they do things that
improve their lives. Victorian's overwhelmingly
endorsed a positive and optimistic plan for
their state. They rejected the low road of fear
and division by voting Labor back into government.
Have the Liberals learned anything from this?

Nope. The "blame game" is well under way.
If they keep doing what they're doing. They'll
keep getting what they've got.

Paul while sharing your opinion of the man unlike individual my views I hope are realistic and based on truth
Queensland, beautiful place, one hour and a hundred years behind the country
Room exist now in a thread that got a run in to debate the Victorian head on then a roll over a cliff election for the lost Rupert team

Hi Foxy,

I've worked on many a political campaign, and negative campaigning is worth a dollar, so its worthwhile, positive campaigning is worth two dollars so even better.
The conservatives by nature true to deliver a message of "steady as she goes" which works well if people are pessimistic, but in times when people are of positive outlook, you need a progressive message.

BTW, I'm doing the "Santa" this year for the Tamariki`s (kids), but I'm a bit different Santa, more like a white Bob Marley with tinsel and flashing lights. Having a big family hui (gathering) just before Xmas at the Reserve. I'm getting my elf to bring us down in his ute, 'Blitzem' (it needs a paint job) minus the other reindeer of course.

Trying this one as my traditional Xmas carol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnJ8jsw4BSo&list=RDQMQpxD9Kz_TTQ&index=1

Dear Paul,

The Coalition's losses across the state will make
it harder for them to win government in 2022.
Matthew Guy campaigned hard on the negative -
on law and order and after the Bourke Street attack
in Melbourne Guy was accused of seeking to gain
political advantage after the tragedy. The Libs
message did not resonate well. Victorians
overwhelmingly endorsed a positive and optimistic
plan for their state. Much to learn there.

Your Christmas sounds great. This is my first one
without mum. It's going to be hard. Our big
celebration is on Christmas Eve with all the
wonderful European dishes, predominantly of sea-food.
Christmas Day - we have - the usual Hams, et cetera.
I've always done both Christmas Eve and Christmas
Day at our place. This year I'm hoping that someone -
(one of my daughter's in law) will volunteer Christmas
Day. But, if not - well I can rest on Boxing Day.
Hubbie's a great help - I don't know what I'd do
without him.

Belly,
just about every post you write you use the term truth. You're a Labor supporter, where is truth in that outfit ?
nicknamenick,
Yes !

I'll take your ambiguous 'yes' as "it's rigged".
"If being stupid was an indictable offence Victoria would now be one massive prison."
So Victoria is not stupid . Who is, then? hmmmmm?

Individual,

It's in winning by not trashing your own brand.

Indy's, looking for another Old Joh to lead him around by the nose, blindfolded, while picking his pocket.

As our current court system is not working very well why don't we consider other methods of justice? Methods used by the First Nations people of Canada seem to work very well. Their method is that the offender meets the entire aggrieved family (do not like the word victim}. At this meeting it is explained how the act has affected the family and why; the perpetrator needs to understand how their action/s have affected others and this can be discussed all the way through. If the family feels a jail term is warranted they can then explain why and submit this to the magistrates. Frequently issues can be decided in hoouse and it is a win/win.
We could always give this a go. You never know, it may just work. Lessens people being jailed etc at tax payers expense.

Sandic 49 welcome, not going to stop using the word victim any time soon
Not sure the rapist of a seven year old girl meeting the aggrieved family/victims parents would work
Unless they had knives
Room exists, heaps of it, for better outcomes and talking about other methods is worthwhile

I have questions for the experts, giving statements like //As our current court system is not working very well//
Some stats; The prison population at 1st June 2018 was 42878 in Australia, 66% (28,457) were sentenced, and 33% (14,349) were unsentenced. That is a 39% increase since 2013.

Please tell me of the 28,457 sentenced, in how many cases was the custodial sentence manifestly inadequate. Of the 14,349 awaiting sentencing in how cases do you expect a manifestly inadequate sentence will be imposed.
At the same time there were 69,397 persons serving community based orders, of those how many do you believe should be serving a custodial sentence?

What I will agree with is that in certain serious cases there should be no option of parole. The fact is there is not a huge number of serious offenders out on parole. The vast majority of parolees are petty criminals. Petty criminals on parole do commit crimes, but not at the same rate as those who have completed their full sentence.

Paul my thoughts are in part drive by these events
Police officer drives person guilty of assault home, that man kills another
54 year old on bail sexual assaults [rapes] 7 year old
police man gives man subject to AVO address of the protected person
Burk street assassin had lost passport and was known to be a danger
Car maniac [said quite wrongly on social media to be Muslim] had been pursued by police all morning before murdering those people
time after time domestic violence victims killed by the person they needed protection from.

So Victoria is not stupid
nicknamenick,
Being brainwashed & full of idealism is akin to stupid & perhaps even worse.

sorry to hear that .

individual old mate you are a barrel of laughs
but sad too
if we took your line winning elections would be a no brainer just convince every voter to believe they do not have the ability to think for them selves
out standing
or a symptom of your failure to understand much at all

Individual,

"There are two ways to be fooled.
One is to believe what isn't true;
The other is to refuse to accept
what is true."
(Soren Kierkegaard).

Stop letting people who do so little for you
control so much of your mind, feelings and
emotions.

Indy is a victim of the right or reality influenza bug
First symptom is thinking everyone thinks as you do
Second is thinking those who do not, never think at all
As it seems Morrison has no intention of taking on the very right, he too has cut links with reality
Politics is about bringing the middle to you, not driving them away

Sadly , the First Law of Oz is that we copy/paste Washington. So the Rep:Dem divide is the Lib:Lab divide . The chief has red hair and all we have are Hanson and Anning. When Latham divorces Pauline there may be a chance for a red wave . Tasmanian unemployed - stay where you are.

I did a little survey over the past three days at our local. i picked all the lefties I knew & started discussing the present heatwave and, as expected, every single one said "I had my AC on full bore". I then reminded them of our previous debates about climate change & getting rid of coal which they so strongly advocated. When I also said that all AC require oodles of power provided by coal-fired power stations, the looks turned to blank stares.
That's the kind of mentality that wins elections for Labor.

Maybe they were thinking , get rid of coal as AC needs oodles of coal. Also , they wanted to know why you changed their topic from magistrates to gw.

NNN keep up mate!
Magistrates cause global warming
Individual interesting read, but your posted thoughts on the Victorian election warn me not to believe it
Is global warming coming one hour earlier in states that have daylight saving?
Best wishes to all Queenslanders suffering because of the extreme heat and bush fires
Please leave if asked

The Magistrates are very similar in mentality to the environmentalists. They always wait for the bad to happen before they jerk their knees into reaction.

To any magistrate reading this, can you please explain where in your Nr of priorities is compensation for victims of crime ?

Knees jerk in reaction? So Conservatives stand still on the highway and shut their eyes? Where is their compensation for victims of melting ice?

Just found this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6441665/Teenager-spared-time-bars-shed-victim-jail-despite-breaching-bond.html

Glamorous teen is spared jail as magistrate rules she would be victimized in prison - despite a string of drug and violence offences that breached previous bond

A teenager who punched an unsuspecting woman in the back of the head has escaped time behind bars as the magistrate says she would be a 'victim in jail'.

Tannah Knight-Olsen, from Sydney's Barden Ridge, appeared in court this week for breaching her bond conditions over the 2017 assault where she bashed an unsuspecting patron at the Miranda Hotel.

Knight-Olsen was allegedly caught with the drugs ice and cannabis earlier this year - which contravened her bond conditions, The Daily Telegraph reported.

She was charged with possessing 0.37g of marijuana on May 30. She was also charged with possessing 0.19g of ice on July 24.

She has also faced violence charges, including incidents where she smashed a landline phone and a pot plant during disputes with family members - which she pleaded guilty to.

During sentencing, Sutherland Court magistrate Glenn Walsh said Knight-Olsen needed to break the cycle of her bad behaviour.

'Whilst I understand that you’re looking for something in life that eases your pain, (the drug use) makes you a worse person.

'She needs assistance and she needs that in the community - she'd just be a victim in jail.'

The 19-year-old was sentenced to 12 months imprisonment, to be served in the community.

Quote "she'd just be a victim in jail." Better her being a victim than some other person.

And this one, this magistrate needs a reminder of the value of a life and the pain from the family members who now have no breadwinner.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6441683/Family-outraged-drunk-speeding-unlicensed-driver-given-20-month-sentence-killing-father-two.html

Family outraged as drunk, speeding and unlicensed driver is given a 20-month sentence for killing a cyclist and father of two

The grieving wife and children of a cyclist who was killed by a drunk, speeding and unlicensed driver has expressed outrage at the offender's light sentence, after he received a non-parole period of just 20 months in jail.

Brenton Curtis, 62, was cycling near his home at Salisbury North in northern Adelaide when he was hit by 19-year-old Garang Akech Luk in October 2017.

Luk was double the legal blood alcohol limit and had been out all night with friends when he hit Mr Curtis at 7:30am in October 2017.

'What does a driver have to do to get a decent sentence?' the victim's son Ashley Curtis said outside the South Australian District Court on Thursday.

'Twenty months for killing a man is just not enough,' Nine News reported him to say.

Luk was driving friends home from a nightclub when his car struck Mr. Curtis at 7.30am.

He reached speeds up to 73km/h in a 50km/h zone at the time of the incident.

also reject judge Jack Costello's observation in sentencing that Luk was remorseful about his actions.

'He has shown no remorse at all,' Mrs Curtis said, noting his behaviour after being charged.

'He went off interstate to play basketball. How do you kill somebody and go off to do that?' she asked.

Luk was sentenced to two years and one month in jail but will be eligible for parole in mid-2020.

Where is their compensation for victims of melting ice?
nicknamenick,
Stop press.. NNN has just found a solution to climate change, compassion by conservatives.
Will all Conservatives please show compassion so the ice can stop melting... Stop press..

i think I've heard it all now.

Another example of justice gone mad, the list of convictions and the out of touch judge has this to say,

"Judge Stuart said Teklemarian had put in no effort to his previous community order, which saw his workload reduced from 300 hours, to 50 hours to jail time.

'It's a pathetic effort,' he said. 'The contravention report speaks to a pathetic effort ... disengagement and a wish to go to jail rather than complete the order.'

Despite being provided yet another corrections order in October, Judge Stuart said he felt compelled to give Teklemarian yet another chance at freedom.

'This young man needs an opportunity to prove himself. If he doesn't, it's jail,' he said. 'You should start growing up ... I'm giving you a chance. Take it.'"

Bits of article.
The remorseless thug, who has a history of violent offending since childhood,

The County Court heard Teklemarian had prior offences including assaulting police, possessing a weapon on court grounds, affray, criminal damage and breaching bail.

Rest of story, an absolute joke he was not locked up earlier.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6445339/Smiling-thug-claimed-servo-robbery-JOKE-walks-free-appeal-despite-begging-jailed.html

Let's hope this "Judge" ends up in a similar kind of "Joke' situation.
Too late for some sanity but it'd shake him up to perhaps leave the job at which he is obviously no good at.

Okay fellas, you want the big stick approach, well that is the gut reaction from many. Does it work, the evidence says no. In the first example "the girl", well the magistrate is probably right, in jail she would be a victim. The question is what can be done to turn her life around. All human life is worthwhile, we can throw a young life on the scrap heap and shrug our shoulders and say; "Oh well, tough luck." or we can try and do something constrictive to turn her life around, jail will not do that.

The second case "the drunk driver" is totally different, a terrible accident caused by a persons reckless stupidity, no winners. It does amaze me that as a society we accept the over consumption of alcohol as being all in good fun, until something goes horribly wrong, and then we want the book thrown at some hapless idiot for what they have done. The family are angry, and that is understandable. Its up to the Crown Prosecution to review all sentences imposed in serious cases, and if its manifestly inadequate in their opinion, then an appeal is warranted. What else can be done, as long as society accepts over consumption of alcohol as being all okay and a bit of fun.

Number three "the habitual criminal" is close to the point of no return, and that is sad. The judge is right 'This young man needs an opportunity to prove himself. If he doesn't, it's jail,' he said. 'You should start growing up ... I'm giving you a chance. Take it.'". A criminal from childhood, there has to be something wrong when that happens. Can he be reformed, like an alcoholic, the chances in our society are slim at best.

Another example of out of touch Judge.

African footballer, 21, accused of drunkenly bashing a policeman in the head with a rock could avoid jail after a sympathetic judge said the officer's injuries weren't serious

An African football player who is accused of bashing a policeman's head with a rock after a 12-hour drinking session is set to avoid a six-month jail sentence.

Ryal Yak, 21, was driving with friends when he was pulled over by Detective Senior Constables Daniel Blake and Sophie Templeton in Truganina, west Melbourne in the early morning of May 11.

The men got out of the car and four of them fled the scene before being chased by the officers.

One of the passengers was arrested in the middle of the road before two of the men returned, including Mr Yak.

The officers ordered Mr Yak to get on the ground but he allegedly failed to comply, telling Detective Senior Constable Blake: 'What the fok are you going to do? You've got nothing'.

Mr Yak then allegedly smashed Detective Senior Constable Blake's head with a rock.

'My whole skull hurt instantly,' Detective Senior Constable Blake told the court

The offence usually carries a six-month jail term, which prosecutors are demanding - but the magistrate indicated on Tuesday that he might not impose such a sentence as there is no evidence of serious injury to Detective Senior Constable Blake.

The police officer suffered cuts and bruising after the alleged attack, and was forced to take time off work.

Mr Yak was taken to hospital due to being intoxicated when he was arrested and told police he did not remember the alleged assault.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6460577/African-footballer-accused-bashing-policeman-rock-avoid-jail.html