Not sure why, had thought we lost the thread many posts ago, let it die .
But still unsure why I want to take on your hard headed views, ones you can never quite fill out, but you have me hooked
UNIONS
From the day of the tolpuddle martyrs, they ended up here as convicts you know.
Workers wanting a share of the wealth they created for others have been subject to not always true charges
IF we never had them we may still be serfs,working six days a week for little pay, hungry enough to send our kids in to the coal mines at age eight.
Care to disagree? yes unions use propaganda, including this country's biggest and most powerful union the LNP!
They are only one of tens of rich men's UNIONS from farmers fed to master builders they exist, just like trade unions, for the interests of their members

rather than send our kids to die they should send old fellas like you and me first
Belly,
I agree but I'm hopeless at video games.

Belly, you are too emotionally invested in certain topics, and because of this you are not thinking clearly.
You mention the unions are there to get more of the money from the company that the workers made wealthy through the work THEY did, therefore deserve a bigger income.
Some have said the company should even give them a share in the company.
Either case you are out of touch.
In either case, if you want more money either in shares or income, then here's a little tip as to what you must do before this is ever gonna happen, unless the boss decides otherwise.
Before you even think about the cretin thieving unions anywhere, you and your mates, put your houses on the line, mortgaged to the hilt.
Then spend every waking minute thinking and doing work related things.
Forget about a social life, your time, even on weekends will be focused on the business and trying to figure out ways of keeping it alive or making it make enough money to just keep up the maintenance and service of the equipment, let alone pay for the insurance, power, super, oh and let's not forget about the wages.
I'm pretty sure I've left out a lot of other things, but knowing you don't want to hear that I'm not wasting any more time on such a pointless, irrelevant bunch of thieves and con-men, as UNIONS!
So to summarise;
If you want more pay, start your own business, borrow the money, put everything you own and most of what you don't yet own, as security, then spend the rest of the time 24/7 constantly worrying about making enough money to make repayments, let alone pay the staff and service/repair gear so that you can keep doing exactly what your doing over and over, till one day you find you've been doing the right thing but everyone still said it wasn't enough, and you are forced to close the doors because the unions have squeezed and pushed you to the wall.

indy your posts consist of mind bubbles without substance or reason ok with that but please explain, put some meat on them.
ALTRAV in your opinion.
See it is not true just because you say so
This forum is not just about the opinions of one side.
IF you ever sat at the enterprise bargaining table, on either side, you would soon learn no one side can win.
In fact both sides would give ground, imported from Thatchers England EBA enterprise bargaining agreements work.
But no side is gifted, both give before taking.
My defense of unions above was only to remind, of what has been achieved and it is not calling for other than a fair go, a chance to bargain,not beg, for workers who in the end are just us

Belly,
without discipline we get what we have now. Useless hangers-on multiplying daily.
Uninons once did a great job but have now become saboteurs of economy & mentality.
people do something right & then proceed & even rush to over-step the mark.
Govt too rewards the conniving & persectes the genuine. There must be reward for good effort not for selfish effort.
Two years of national service is a small price to pay for a good & safe life in a good & safe society.

Belly, what you describe is not productive, because here in Australia we have a very aggressive and 'protection' minded out of control, union mentality.
The unions ARE responsible for our hardships.
There is absolutely no doubt of that.
In their 'race to the bottom', they have done nothing to help the worker because the cost of living to income ratio has gotten worse over the years.
What they have done is lined their own pockets, at the expense of Aussie workers and Australia as a country, by upping wages, our internal costs rose with it, and our exports dropped dramatically because the unions pushed the cost of labour so high, we have become un-competitive in world trading.
Belly it's remarkable how dumb most people are.
Did you or any of your mates stop and think, just for a moment, businesses need workers, so why would they not want to have a collaborative working environment?
I'll tell you why.
Because these scum-bag unions had to make it look like they were necessary, so they started using 'mafia' style tactics such as strikes and whatever else to get their way.
In doing so they were making themselves look good, that's all.
It's just like the banks.
They simply pass it on to the customer.
No different, the unions push up wages, the manufacturer adds it on the cost and passes it on, so that when that same worker with his pay increase goes to buy the same item next time, the price has gone up.
So we turn to exports.
No it's too expensive, so no exports.
Thanks for nothing.
Belly you can shove your EBA, your kind of mentality is pure evil and belongs with the thugs and criminals because the sh!t Australia is in right now is down to guys like you and your beloved unions.
Why you haven't figured this out for yourself and taken a big stick to your union reps is beyond me, but at least it gives all of us a window into you and your mindset so we can adjust our comments accordingly.