Dear o sung wu,

It can only be good.

From what you said Ashton and his review were right in focusing on leadership and their attitudes to the mental health of their charges as well as of themselves.

Forgive me for pointing out that you yourself displayed some of the attitudes that needed changing when you claimed;

“I understand Mr ASHTON had several bouts of depression or other emotional difficulties, requiring him to take time off. Clearly the job got on top of him. Police Commissioners need to be hard. The job is hard.”

To intimate that taking mental stress leave means someone is not up to the job as you did, surely must be deemed part of the problem.

However I think you are smart enough to realise there is some old school thinking that needs shifting to keep the black dog from claiming more police lives.

If Ashton succeeds in shifting some of this thinking then he will indeed have done well.

Hi there STEELEREDUX...

During my career and in my generation in the job, to show any sort of emotion over 'anything', save for displays of anger over some heinous crimes and their perpetrators, it's considered a sign of weakness. And as a sergeant, if you overtly display that weakness, your subordinates will climb all over you. From my information and post my retirement, not much has changed. It's essentially a 'cultural' thing.

By the way Steele, did you manage to speak with your relative over the inordinately high number of suicides among the Feds in their Melbourne HQ? Please don't take that enquiry as me being critical of the Feds. 'We all bleed when we're cut'.

And (again) you're right, the old school thinking on mental illness has to change, otherwise a police career will become so toxic they'll never be able to recruit people in sufficient numbers. As an example - When my dear first wife committed suicide, virtually none of my colleagues said much at all, other than to clumsily mutter something like "gee that's tough". A couple of them were more, I dunno, more religious with their comments I suppose, framing their condolences about her being in the care of God or something? I appreciated their remarks, notwithstanding how brief or clumsy those remarks may've been.

Older coppers generally have a 'line' whenever we need to inform a NOK of the death of a relative, in an accident or worse. Which usually works OK. In fact when I was doing my penance in the Academy as an Instructor, the recruits were taught procedures on death notification. But individually, they're not as adroit as they should've been. And I'm the same unfortunately.

If as you say, one of Graham ASHTON'S primary objectives is to do something positive about the mental illness of many of his police members, then I'll apologise unreservedly.

In my time, we had a Commissioner & a couple of Deputy Commissioners. One 'Admin' the other 'Operations'. There should've been another Deputy Commissioner, I/C Personnel. Perhaps then, the troops would've got the attention they deserve?

Dear o sung wu,

No apology required at all. You were presented with other information and adjusted your thinking as a result. Perfectly acceptable I would have thought.

I would however like to raise another matter with you.

A little while ago you, perhaps with some justification, questioned me on the way I responded to Hasbeen.

I respectfully submit that Hasbeen's provocations then were orders of magnitude worse that those of Paul1405 toward yourself in this thread.

I also contend that your response to Paul1405 was was far more cutting than anything I have ever directed toward Hasbeen.

I therefore feel comfortable in asking that you reflect on your recent exchange with Paul1405, and to echo a similar call that you did of me; “C'mon o sung wu, you can do much better than that.”

Hi there STEELEREDUX...

I'll respond tomorrow if you don't mind, I'm a bit crook tonight I'm afraid. Concerning PAUL1405 I don't believe I've found anyone on 'the Forum' that I loath more so, than him - at many levels. However I need to rein-in some of my rhetoric, otherwise I feel sure Graham YOUNG will remove my eligibility to participate on his Site and that would be an immense disappointment for me to have that permission withdrawn. Speak with you tomorrow sometime Steele.

Hi o sung wu,

I am sorry you are a sick man, I hope your recovery is a speedy one. I have never personally attacked you, other than to call you a warmonger, which I retracted as being untrue through lack of evidence. I believe like many police in your day, you were a "good" copper, meaning, you carried out your duties honestly, but accepted others dishonesty as part and parcel of the job, something that then, or today has no validity. If there are any other comments of mine that you take as a personal affront against you, I also retract them as well.
I have no time for criminality within the police force, such coppers should be expunged from the service without mercy.

On militarism, I am a pacifists, interpenetrate as you will, call me what you like, your feelings of loth towards me are not reciprocated, it all has no effect on me what so ever. I stand by my beliefs and opinions.

Hi there STEELEREDUX...

I'm sorry for my delay in responding to your latest contribution Steele.

I think I may've said before, there's a strong cultural connection between HASBEEN and myself. He's a former Navy Aviator; and I'm ex Military. Secondly our politics are almost identical, conservative. Another feature of HASBEEN'S commentary on 'The Forum', he's direct, which generally means, he makes no attempt to obfuscate his arguments for better or worse.

I guess all of us can become marginally energetic and/or excited, when discussing opposing views, especially on a medium like 'The Forum'. Consequently many of us become significantly more measured with our language, than others. You mentioned something to the effect that, my response's to PAUL1405 were more 'cutting' than yours was towards HASBEEN?

Firstly Steele, I didn't in anyway attempt to 'cut' PAUL1405 as you've implied. Rather, I simply (quietly) sought to appraise him of some of his own personal failings, apropos his character, after he made some scurrilous allegations against 'REAL MEN' who died in the service of our country, in far off, South East Asia - Vietnam!

No man should be exposed to that sort of condemnation particularly when they're dead, and unable to defend/answer for themselves!

This 'Baby Killer' crap! From an alleged 'Consciences Objector'.

Steele do you agree or disagree with that comment ?

Any arguement you and HASBEEN may've had, about any given topic, would've utterly paled into insignificance, compared with some of the assertions and language employed by PAUL1405. And you're right Steele, '...I can do better then that...'! I now realise, I was far too 'LENIENT' with him over those utterly disgusting remarks, about Veterans and Police who've lost their lives during the course of their duty. But I had to account for the fact, that this is a surveilled & monitored Site, and one must be measured in what one infers and says on such a Site.

What I need to do, is find the words and/or a Thesaurus to do a really proper job on this bloke. Just put that down to my lack of a good education.