Hi there CANUM MALUM...

To be honest I've not heard the term before. I was in the military in the sixties, and sure they employed many different euphemisms to describe things, but to be honest I've not heard of that one before. Thanks my friend, I've learnt something different today.

Dear o sung wu,

You wrote;

“He has abilities in the area of crime Interdiction, as a MANAGER, not as a detective.”

Oh I agree but surely isn't that the job description of the chief commissioner, primarily to be a skilled manager? Don't you think all the dealing with the politics of the top job would drive a skilled, plain speaking detective up the wall?

Ashton's work as a LO would have heightened diplomacy skills and the ability to navigate through politically fraught waters.

Further one of his big pushes when he took the job was on addressing mental health for members and he ordered a review. It was prompted by the fact that 19 serving and former officers had taken their own lives since 2000 compared to 5 killed in the line of duty.

In 2016 his 'Victoria Police mental health review' was released.
http://www.police.vic.gov.au/retrievemedia.asp?Media_ID=117544

It found that;

“A key challenge identified was delayed helpseeking or avoidance when experiencing mental health issues. Contributing factors of these being: A widespread and entrenched stigma regarding the reporting of mental health issues within Victoria Police, leading to reluctance to seek help”

It firmly stated;

“There is a need for fundamental change in Victoria Police leadership culture, with core organisation-wide weaknesses in ‘peoplefocused’ leadership capability. • People-focused leadership capability is a mental health protective factor that operates through building supportive, cohesive and engaging team-based processes and practices; which can improve levels of employee wellbeing and reduce mental health risk.”

When he in turn found himself mentally an physically fatigued he took the time to repair and again “encouraged all members struggling with mental health to get support early”.

"I have been heartened to see this increasingly occurring across the force," he said in a statement in November. In this regard it is important that I therefore walk the talk, and now take the necessary time to deal with my fatigue issues."
http://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/top-cop-graham-ashton-returns-from-sick-leave-20180108-h0euro.html

I hope his leadership on this will save police lives and if they do I hope you will be gracious enough to recognise it.

Hi o sung wu,

Corruption in the NSW police force of which you claim to have been a "good" copper within was well known as being systemic long before Steele mentioned it on this thread, it simply jogged my memory.
A bent copper like Rogerson did more harm than any possible good he may have inadvertently bestowed on the people he was employed to serve. Your praise of the man simply disrespects the honest officers who do right by the community they serve. I am glad you have known so many "fine" officers in your time.

As for Vietnam, I am proud I didn't participate in a grubby war where baby killers were the norm rather than the exception. If my failure to participate in such atrocities makes me a coward, as you claim, then I am so pleased.

Hi there STEELEREDUX...

You argue a compelling case for Graham ASHTON, I've got to give you that. I wasn't aware he took a leadership role on mental illness within the job that you say he did? Well it's about time someone did so. I've always contended you wear your body armour 'back the front' to stop the knives of your bosses from penetrating your unprotected back.

It's like why so many members purchase for themselves, those small recorders. When being admonished by your boss for something that's not of your doing, you can record the maggot's 'stitch up'. I tell you this as an outsider Steele. Most police stress doesn't come from the criminal element or the dangers inherent with the job, but it's generated and distributed by the bosses. Unlike the military, were leadership is developed and encouraged. Where most older cops, many before my time and some from my era as well, are promoted beyond their leadership skill set. So they rely on heavy handed, bully boy tactics to achieve their aims.

Police are quite different to any other employment group (perhaps save the military) they're para-military. You're sworn in, so they've got you. They do not have to accept your resignation. And in most internal investigations, there's no such thing as natural justice. They can compel you to answer questions and give evidence. Unlike in normal criminal jurisprudence.

Back to your Feds - do you know, so toxic is their leadership, that two of their members in Melbourne, actually committed suicide last year, both in the same spot, in the same locker room, and shot with their own guns! Given the size of their force (Feds) they've had more suicides 'per sworn member' than any other Force in the country! They appear to by one very very sick puppy is the Feds?

The entire industry is in a mess, and only the fittest survive. Busted marriages, coppers going rogue, massive sick leave, fist fights among members; suicides...? If Graham ASHTON can save (police) lives - he'll have my vote.

It matters little how you cut it. You are a coward. Such a despicable figure that you are, you're not fit to bathe in the urine stream of the average police officer. Of course your courageous stand on Vietnam was another of your resounding milestones indicating yet again what a disgustingly rancid creep you are, with this consciences objector malarky you go on with. Principals were never part of your vocabulary, just as long as you were alright, that's what mattered.

You epitomises the view; 'A coward can never be moral'.

Baby killers eh, where did you get that from, some left wing rag from the back blocks of the US somewhere.

A question - you're doing a sweep through a small village in Vietnam, seeking out insurgents. When suddenly a young boy or girl aged 7 or 8 emerges from one of the huts and comes towards you. You point your weapon toward them, warning them not to come any closer. They continue to do so. What would you do, Mr Consciences Objector?

Hi there STEELEREDUX...

I've just this minute received notification of a new initiative by the Feds called 'Blue Hope', a book, or a Site or something, to help police and their families deal with mental illness, job related or otherwise. Seems your Mr ASHTON'S influence, is spreading far and wide by the look of things. It can only be good I reckon.