Toni,

I said a LITTLE deranged. Selective quoting is a LITTLE dishonest.

Then as to emphasis your penchant for selective quoting you take the first part of my sentence on 'laissez faire' capitalism and tell me how bad it can be for some people, WHILE completely ignoring the second part of my sentence which pointed out that those who suffer should be looked after.

No longer a little dishonest...now just plain dishonest.

" Greatest good for the greatest number of people ". Oh so you do support capitalism. :)

Hi Foxy, I'm up in the deep north at the moment (Brisbane), could be living up here soon. Given the failures of the Czarists and their absolute monarch Nicholas II, and the general conditions that existed in Europe at that time, it was only to be expected that an equally abhorrent regime, i.e. the Bolsheviks under Lenin, would come to power. In times of extremism one should expect violent action to be the normal behavior of the state. Like Stalin, Hitler and Mussolini coming to power was no accident, they were violent individuals supported by like minded equally violent fanatics.

It is only through vigilance and the safeguarding of the principles enshrined in our liberal democratic form of government, that we can remain free of the tyranny of the despots, and the murderous behavior of the tyrants. Yet on this thread some advocate the replacement of our healthy democratic liberalism as it now exists, with something that unfortunately would be the ideal environment for the extremest to take power.

// The greatest good for the greatest number can justify keeping some people in slavery if most people benefit by the few in slavery.//

Well...

Fair point and well made, david f.

I'm going to have to spend some serious time inside my mind re-examining my assumptions.

//I said a LITTLE deranged. Selective quoting is a LITTLE dishonest.//

Right... seems to me that's like being a LITTLE pregnant.

Not everything is on a spectrum. Some things are quantised.

Derangment is on a spectrum, but if calling people names puts you on that spectrum then we're all fruitcakes together. Lying is quantised; a person is either lying or not lying, although until the truth is ascertained and the wavefunction collapsed, one must assume a superposition of states, as it were.

//WHILE completely ignoring the second part of my sentence which pointed out that those who suffer should be looked after.//

Um, yeah, I guess I did.... it's just that you seem to be deadset against anything which might actually help the poor. I mean it's all very well to light up the Virtue Signal, but unlike the Bat Signal there is no Virtueman coming to save us. Offering up motherhood statements is about as useful as tits on a bull without the policy to back them up.

//Oh so you do support capitalism. :)//

Well, yeah... sorry, were you under the impression that I didn't? Just because I'm in favour of universal healthcare? Wow...

Politics really is getting weird these days.

I've never really studied economics properly. I tried it for a little while, decided I wasn't a fan, and never really bothered with it again. I dunno why I didn't take to it, but I do know it annoys me when people refer to it as one of the sciences. Doesn't seem very scientific to me, although maybe I have a narrow view of what constitutes science.

But I do like philosophy, and as it turns out economics and philosophy do brush up against each other. Smith and Marx were apparently both philosophers, although I've not read either beyond the odd quote.

But I know which philosophers I like, and from my readings I've ascertained that the liberal philosophers I admire like Locke, Mill and Bentham (Oh, Jeremy Bentham!) belonged to much the same school of thought as Smith.

All that being said, I think that there are better and worse ways to do capitalism. And this where it comes back to policy rather than philosophy. I see fundamental flaws in the philosophical underpinnings of Marxism, (to that extent I understand it without actually having read Marx, but having read 'Animal Farm' at least half a dozen times) that I don't see in capitalism. But I am still a science nerd at heart, and I cannot help but observe empirical evidence of capitalism being done well, and not so well.

And it seems to better with a bit of socialism in the mix... just my observation, and hey, I'm as biased as the next observer.

Dear Paul1405,

We've had many discussions on this forum on the
unresolved problems that face us in this country. Problems
that we must deal with to move forward as a free, fair
and vibrant society.

You and I have no doubt we can find the solutions that suit
us. provided we don't succumb to the siren calls of demagogues,
charlatans, and ideologues.

The achievements of the past decades have laid extraordinary
foundations. Properly preserved and built on, we now have
opportunities we never had before in Australia's history.
The best years for our country are still in front of us.
The measure of our society over history is our fidelity
to our principles. We must remind our government and our
people to remain faithful to those principles or otherwise
our society, like so many in the past, will be swept on the
ash heap of history.