So we're heading up to an election (can you smell the pork barreling yet?), I'm planning on running as an independent for NSW in the Senate election, but I thought I would see what other people thought about the smaller parties and independents.

Do they have a place?

Are there too many?

Would you run if you had the chance?

from, or to?

why go into politics when the brothels are crying out for limber bodies untroubled by morality?

but if you don't care about your reputation, and are not afraid of the industrial disability known as politician's rictus, and are untroubled by the prospect of telling lies in the presence of objective evidence to the contrary, or...

c'mon- you're joking, right?

Umm no I'm not.

I would have thought that the cure for a rusted on two party system would have been more participation by the population rather than less as you seem to be calling for.

au contraire, mate.

but joining a bandit gang is not the way to beat them.

start a citizen action group to bring democracy to oz, and i'll be in it. but it'll just be you and me, and it needs 100,000 to do any good. the british heritage of submission is just too strong. even admitting something needs to be done is beyond them.

"she'll be right" should work for another few years, glad i'm not raising kids tho'- howard's mob has shown there is no protection from fascism in oz culture, the next lot will develop from there.

James, I am sure that your intentions are truly honourable but what do you know about the integrated system of law we are expected to have under the Australian Constitution.
I recall another senator who got elected by default after the decision of the HighCourt and he also thought he new it all. He spent the first three years running around the country chasing fairies, rainbows and State's rights but failed to realise that the States only have statutory Rights provided by their Constitution if it is not in conflict with the Australian Constitution.
I don’t totally agree with DEMOS either but one point I don’t go along with is we should start a citizen action group to bring democracy to oz, we already have it here we just have to recognise how it exists and how to have it implemented.
DEMOS is correct in saying that joining the bandit gangs is not the way to beat them and creating another like entity is also destined to fail due to the absolute control of the electoral registration process of reregistering gangs as Qld One Nation is discovering that reregistering under the amended Act may not be that successful.
Neither gang want any opposition as there is a lot of money and power tied up in this power sharing arrangement.
Howard's mob has shown there is no protection from fascism in oz culture, the next lot will develop from there. No not quite correct they already exist in the States as fascist regimes and they are fully developed, all they have to do is change their address.
I suggest that you very closely at the legal system, as apposed to judicial system, provided by the legal-profession in the States and which is also used and taken advantage of by the Commonwealth when prosecuting alleged offenders, local dissidents or objectors for breaches of the agreements entered into with them.
One agreement that comes to mind is the terms and condition of the 130,000 page agreement that you entered into when you made and signed the application for a tax file number

Dan, could you please define exactly what form of "fascism" you think is in operation in the states? Mousillini's italian fascism? Hitlers Socialist Fascism?

I'm sorry, but I don't see fascism at play in the states. I see ineptness, a little corruption and the everyday grind that is confrontational politics, but there aren't any brown shirts or black shirts goose stepping down the streets.

Yes there is plenty I don't agree with, and many things that I think are dangerously close to damaging our democracy (the anti-terror laws and the governments application of them for a start). However the people have a choice, whereas in a truly fascist state, they wouldn't.

"people have a choice" about what? labor backs the terror/sedition laws, tweedledum,tweedledee. people are disappearing into secret prisons without charges or judicial supervision, and ozzians keep referring to 'our democracy' as though they had any, or knew what it was.

i actually don't mind oz falling into the hands of 2nd rate would-be fuehers as long as you know what's going on, and choose to submit.

but i wouldn't want it to happen just because you're dim, and or lazy and or ignorant.

James, Which religious group condoned both you describe it may well be the same Church behind the Union of thugs who wear blue shirts, control the fiction courts, the politicians and the public service, NSW, Qld not much different.
I have formed my opinion from personal experience and I think DEMOS knows more then he is prepared to admit. I pleasing to see that he is not prepared to submit as I will never acquiesce. Read my comments on the terror related matters and any of my other posts it will not be difficult to realise what my concerns are.
We have no choice, we are processed like pieces of meat in the personae designata jurisdiction Courts that are not compatible with Chapter 111 of the Australian Constitution and the Doctor was in the same position and not allowed to speak, Counsel spoke for him in the legal proceedings, not judicial proceedings and paid very well by the Tax Payers for his eloquent words.
DEMOS is absolutely correct, there is no judicial supervision over any of the so called courts or the administrative decisions made by the executive arm of Govt. Ex NSW Chief Justice conducts faux review of the Qld DPP, where is our Supreme Court that has jurisdiction under the Judicial Review Act 1991.
The Supreme Court Qld has the function to provide this judicial review process but it is not made available to anybody other than Lawyers receiving their practicing certificates and your relatives after your dead.
I note that you did not respond to the comment about the agreement you entered into when you applied for your TFN.
All the terms and conditions have changed since then, do you agree to these changes being made without your express consent ?
Before you attempt to get elected I suggest that you start reading and the High Court site on Constitutional cases would be an appropriate place to start, Kable, Grollo, The Boilermakers case, Forge and the list goes on. Search words, kangaroo courts, Palm tree justice, personae designata jurisdiction.

This is not the year to be a small party candidate, its full of heat and even the Greens may not do as well as in the past.
I think it will be very much a them or us election.
By the way we would in my view be better with one house than a senate full of small party's.

there is a charming simplicity about you, belly-

your principle is: "gang rule is good, as long as it's my gang."

my own choice would be: "gang rule is good, as long as i am the gang."

that way there's no internal factionalism. but other people disagree with both of us, so i advocate democracy, instead. recommend it to you.

One house vs Two houses, the eternal debate.

For my money I prefer two houses. It allows for a level of checks and balances that just doesn't exist in a one house system.

A one house system might work if the party system wasn't as tight as it is now. With members able to vote the way that they wish, however with voting along the party lines being the heavily enforced norm, I don't see that happening.

James, I think Belly is right about this not being a good year for small parties and independents, but if you can afford it give it a go anyway and good luck to.

Most of us, including me, are happy to sit around whining but never put our hands up to actually do anything. Good on you, whether I agree with your policies or not.

James

Dont worry about the others with their actions. What they do not get is that their are those of us who want to represent the people and have a go, instead of constant wingeing.

The problems we have are due to these parties and the mp's in parliament as they do not have what it takes to stand up and voice their concerns.

If they do this they will lose out in party ranking and/or be expelled.

Now all the polls are about 2 party prefered so when it comes down to it the independents or smaller parties are not taken into account.

So the people will have the final say, and when the truth is pushed and said well that will be cause for cellarbration.

The major parties do as they are told when in government running around to keep big business happy or the unions, but these parties have lost there way. For us the people it is their way or the highway and it is time that the people of Australia had a better say than just being dictated too.

Stuart Ulrich
Independent Candidate for Charlton

Tapp it may surprise you to know I do not condemn you for your views, and in fact we could be a better country if it was possible to have small party's in the house.
But it could be far worse.
A senate split and again controlled by smaller party's could strangle this country.
Strange as it sounds the Democrats once did a good job while they had the balance of power.
They also did a dreadful job! and insured the death of the very party.
We must not forget, each of us, that voters are mostly not ignorant, they put party's in power not some monster pushing them.
This year more than most small party's are not going to win.
Your chances Stu, no offense , of getting your money back are zero.
I propose we all consider how we can best impact policy's and my way is pick the party nearest to my wants and wishes and work from the inside not waste our time on dreams.

The best way we can make an impact on policy is not vote the majors.

Why is this so.

The majors have already decided policy at their meetings is this not correct belly, so when it comes down to it the people do not have a real choice.

These parties will do as they please.

Pollies in federal government are supposed to be independent from their parties but hey what do these parties care and why would they want to tell the people this.

That they actually know they are acting unconstitutionally, for what themselves and their parties.

Just as you belly are labor does not mean independents cannot make the right choice for the people, as it seems the majors have no idea.

So belly i would say i will get my money back.

whats the odds.

Stuart Ulrich

verses

Greg Combet

Stuart Ulrich
Independent Candidate for Charlton

James, the sustainability party is interested in endorsing independent candidates for the upcoming federal election. Let me know what you think:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/sustainability-party/sustainability-party.html

Australia is not a democracy. We haven’t even the right not to vote. And the preferential system means that no matter who you vote for it will end up in the box of one of the two major parties – so you are voting for them whether you want to or not. As for independents – most are religious nutters determined their supernatural superman will have a say through them.
And the senate? It’s supposed to act as a check on the House of Reps. But how can it do that if some Senators are holding ministerial office in the current government? Surely that is unconstitutional?
The only remotely democratic system is proportional representation. Seats are awarded according to how many votes the party or candidate get, thus, with 25% of the primary vote, the Greens should have a quarter of the seats instead of none. And the god party, Family First with about 1% of the primary vote should never be let near Canberra.
Australian governments of every ilk have become increasingly dictatorial and fascist, overriding the courts, changing laws to suit, ignoring the UN human rights declaration, removing rights, encouraging divisiveness, basing laws on ancient supernatural myths, imposing censorship… I can't find anything good to say about any of them.
There’s a new party, The Secular Party; www.secularparrty.org.au that at least will try to keep religion out of political decision making

freediver,

I've had a look through the page you linked to, and while there are some interesting ideas there, I'm not sure if I share your enthusiasm for taxes versus licenses.

I would also point out that while you advocate a carbon tax, its a little light on detail about the development of alternative technologies and energy production methods.

Rebates and subsidies have their place in encouraging people to adopt technologies and practices that they wouldn't normally adopt. Sometimes you get better results with a carrot than you do with a stick (which a tax is, no matter which way you look at it).

Personally I would advocate an increase in subsidies to programmes that encourage people to harvest their own resources in responsible ways, including water tanks, solar photo-voltaics and other renewable energy sources and so on. I would also support an increase in the price of water as well as the implementation of laws that ensure that the user pays, if only because this would encourage more people to both limit over use as well as investigate other ways that they can make savings.

Tapp please understand I while opposed to your views am not trying to taunt you.
I study the form, read every line, try to understand every issue, and truly try to see what the other side thinks.
This close scrutiny of politics and the full on intent almost got me barred from my ALP last time around.
In the two full time weeks before the election, begging for votes I knew the results.
Spoke openly about our doom.
On arrival at my red neck booth went up to the National booth captain put my hand out and said congrats on your landslide victory.
At 8am in the morning.
You will not run third.
Labor will hold the seat with an increased majority.
No wish to hurt you you may run second last at best.
Can the near great Antony Green give this forum his thoughts based on current polls?
Regards Tapp.

It is hard work to gain 600,000 votes in the Senate and you will need at least that much finance to make your name and policy known to gain a place. Independents in local Electorates only have a chance it they are high profile persons and well known for their community service. Give lots of time and money to community projects and charities and gather a team around you who will support you.

It seems that Antony Green isnt home at the moment Belly.

The people are fed up and around Australia will be some changes as the people are fed up with fly in candidates who do not have what it takes to stand in their own electorates.

So in Charlton there is hope that the people if they themselves where to go into parliament would much prefer to stand and fight and be counted than roll over and do as you are told or be expelled due to obedience to party structure.

So represent the electorate or represent your party that is the choice.

The electorate is about the people.

So if i come last it will not matter, the thing is I had a go, to stand up to you and your constitutionally corrupt and inept party.

For doing this i am proud for being, and having the opportunity to stand for the people in MY electorate.

As i can voice without expulsion that is democracy not obedience like yours.

Democracy is freedom of choice
Democracy is freedom to speak up without fee of expullsion
Where are the peoples freedoms

Stuart Ulrich
Independent Candidate for Charlton

Tapp I will post the final results in your seat here and stand firmly by my predictions.
You could make an impact in the upper house one day if you get that party working hard.

ybgirp
Your link is not working.
When you are asked a civil question and you have no answer you just ignore the poster[ and I am not just refering to us]

It is good this person and all the others on this page are looking at doing something.
Its people like them that will eventually make the difference in this country.
I also agree with the poster we should keep family first as far away as possible from any control.
Having met their leader in person take my word for this.
If you are not one of their religious nutters they litterally dont want to know you.

They are apparently doing it tough and very low on tea and coffee along with their manners.



Belly just give us one example of a policy you like other than supporting your work choice movement.
Anything will do- On any topic.

ybgirp
Sorry the type missed the name Belly. I was not refering to you not reponding to questions. I was refering to Belly.
Belly has a ALP attitude. Thats is no debate and just Bully.
You can ask sensible questions but if Belly gets a sniff your not supporting ALP you wont get an answrer.

If you ask the question again belly closes down the thread and opens another.
Who does that remind you of.?

We all know about the good old days Belly. Your not alone in your thoughts there I can assure you.
Your not the only one off the land who did it tough either.
Your mate [ as you call him] Kev can not run a country alone even if he wins.
Where is he going to get his staff from Belly?
The ALP states are all billions in the red depite getting more from the Government.

The simply truth is they cant run the states let along the country.

I wish that were not the case because I hate the Howard Government.

The facts are we dont need an inexpereinced Government.

Granted Rudd has been listening to somebody.

He no longer speaks really quickly and has taken the smarty pants tone out of his voice.
He is more clam and I respect that. He should share his gift with Julia who dripps aggreshion.
In ten years he might make a good PM - If/ he gets new staff.
But not now and not working with her either.
People want kindness understanding and wisdom. Not a woman who litterally snarls in parliment pointing like a two year old.

"Australia is not a democracy. We haven’t even the right not to vote. And the preferential system means that no matter who you vote for it will end up in the box of one of the two major parties

Only if that's what the people want, which is of course the basis of democracy. There are plenty of occasions where this doesn't happen.

"so you are voting for them whether you want to or not. As for independents

No you are not. You are given a choice between them despite the fact that you vote for a minor party or idnependent.

"And the senate? It’s supposed to act as a check on the House of Reps. But how can it do that if some Senators are holding ministerial office in the current government?

The Australian people rarely give one party power over both houses.

"The only remotely democratic system is proportional representation.

It is no more or less democratic than other systems. It's just a different mechanism of representation.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/electoral-reform/electoral-reform.html

"Australian governments of every ilk have become increasingly dictatorial and fascist, overriding the courts, changing laws to suit

They can only do that to the extent that the people grant them the power.

~

"Independents in local Electorates only have a chance it they are high profile persons and well known for their community service.

Should it be any other way?

James perhaps we should start a new thread to discuss taxation vs subsidies.

"I'm not sure if I share your enthusiasm for taxes versus licenses.

Would you mind elaborating?

"I would also point out that while you advocate a carbon tax, its a little light on detail about the development of alternative technologies and energy production methods.

That's because that is a different issue.

"Sometimes you get better results with a carrot than you do with a stick (which a tax is, no matter which way you look at it).

It's only better if you ignore the cost of the carrot, which unfortunately most voters tend to do.

"Personally I would advocate an increase in subsidies to programmes that encourage people to harvest their own resources in responsible ways

What if you could achieve more with less economic impact using taxes? You get the same end result (less water consumed, less emissions), but less damage to the economy.

For an intelligent electorate and better politicians I think that the Australian Constitution and Political Science should be mandatory subjects for school. When an Independent
pushes for this, they will certainly get my vote.

Pauline Hanson made over $200k from the last election from all the votes she got in the Senate. Meanwhile the Democrats got less than $20k for all their votes - Australia wide! And the media still question why Hanson runs, but they never bring up this issue and ask her why she just takes the money when she has no chance of winning. She would be mad not to run. I think anyone (besides Pauline) who would seriously devote a year to running as an independent in a state like QLD or NSW for the senate either has too much time on their hands or needs a reality check. Your chances are very very slim. Go and join the major parties. Looking at the star studded cabinet in QLD any old person can get a job if they just try.

Joe2008,

Sorry I can't accept that a person's only way to political influence is by the major parties.

Just because the chances are slim (and I'm under no illusion as to how slim), doesn't mean that a person can't try. I'm running because none of the major/minor parties represent me or my viewpoint. So if I want my viewpoint to be heard then I have to work for it. One way is to run as an independent.

Danielle,

At the risk of appearing to be spruiking for votes, I'm with you on that one. In general I would like to see critical thinking taught in schools, so that while kids are learning facts, they are taught how to evaluate those facts and seek out new sources of information.

James, The facts are that income tax is a volentary obligation until such time as you apply for a Tax File Number.
My children have now learnt this fact and now they are learning how to evaluate this fact along with the implication of the various changes (legislative admendments) to the terms and conditions of the original agreement which is now 130,000 + pages. Its is obvious as a budding politician you were not prepared to entertain argument on these issues. Are you really competent to represent anybody in your electorate if you have difficulty definig policy in this area of stealing property (money belonging to others) so that the elected one can have the good life at the expense of the peasants ?

Young Dan,

I am prepared to have discussions about tax, so long as you recognise that I actually support the concept of a tax system.

It may not be perfect however it is a lot better than a system of voluntary payments, which would so skew our society it would take us back to near feudal times.

Our tax system ensures that we are able to pay for things like universal education, universal health care, a system of justice and so on. These things would not be available under a completely user pays system, instead we would be stuck with a situation worse than the American health system.

While you may have an issue with what politicians are payed (and I would prefer if politician wages were tied to either CPI or to be fairer, the rulings of the Fair Pay Authority (whatever its called now)). However I am not going to throw out the baby with the bath water.

freediver,

Sorry just noticed your post.

On the subject of taxes vs subsidies I would be happy to see a new thread started :)

Just a couple of points.

Firstly, I would hesitate to say that new taxes would have less of an impact on the economy than subsidies. It would however be in the opposite direction. While subsidies would see more money flow into the economy and possibly affect inflation and so on, taxes would take money out of the system and possibly lead to deflation.

Secondly what would the difference be between taxes on resources and increasing charges to access such resources? Would the taxes replace the current system of statutory bodies and charges or would they be developed in conjunction?

James, Its past the concept stage its implemented and your second statement shows that you have no understanding of your rights and obligations provided for by our Aust Constitution. It is my money my property and I don’t consent to giving it to anybody. That is the LAW or don’t you agree with the provisions of the Constitution or do you prefer being a slave or a ruling poly at the expense of the slaves.
Universal health care and education is funded by the GST given to the States and the legal systen is user pay or were you not aware of that. If you want to use it you pay for lodging and having the members of the legal profession providing the dispute resolution process in the same places as the statutory courts are conducted, and then you pay untill you have none left. That’s the legal system not the judicial system but as a budding poly why would I expect you to be aware of any of this.
Now I would not have any issue with you receiving a wage as a politician because I don’t believe that you could ever get there and if you did you would be taking money under false pretences like most of them who dodge the touchy issues. Ignorance is bliss.

Pale I had thought I would be best not to respond to your posts.
To leave you in that Wil Robinson lost in space of your own you live in.
Having studied your insulting responses to my posts ,very much including the one here, it becomes clear.
You are unable to see that while I am from the ALP I very often oppose my party's path.
My thread highlights just that, standing against the lunacy's of Mark Latham.
No you must not let your dislike of the incoming Labor government blind you to the failures of your side.
And remember it will be Australian voters in a majority who put us there.
While small party's, hey we agree FF is proof small party's ofter danger as well as good.
We are overlooking this thread talks about the senate not lower house would you pale still favor small party's if a union based one won say 5 seats in that house?
I want you to understand you I get huge fun out of your biased posts, And please continue it shows the direction less pain and anger of some government supporters policy's would be of far more use.

"Firstly, I would hesitate to say that new taxes would have less of an impact on the economy than subsidies. It would however be in the opposite direction.

No it wouldn't.

You can bring it up here:

http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1168051896

Hi DEMOS you are funny !