/cont

* "More than 1,000 children were separated between October 2016 and September 2017, and 703 were separated between October 2017 and February 2018, according to DHS." October 2016!! Who was in power then?

* "The teen fled an abusive father and violence fueled by drug cartels to seek asylum in the United States in 2015....he was transferred to Shenandoah in April 2016 and diagnosed ...with three mental disorders, including depression. The lawsuit alleged the teen received no further significant mental health treatment."

* "Virginia’s governor ordered state officials Thursday to investigate abuse claims by children at an immigration detention facility who said they were beaten while handcuffed and locked up for long periods in solitary confinement, left nude and shivering in concrete cells.....The incidents described in the lawsuit occurred from 2015 to 2018".

SR wrote:"Obama did not have a policy of separating families."
Dept of Homeland Security wrote: "As a matter of procedure and policy, border agents routinely separate family members, including intentionally, as punishment—or “consequences”-through what DHS calls its Consequence Delivery System". Report dated 10 January 2017.

Poor SR, if only the truth would match with the way he wants the world to be.

mhaze,

Talking about the truth matching facts: Here's another
attempt at explanation for you:

In defending its "Zero tolerance" border policy that has
caused the separation of families the Trump administration
has argued that the Obama and Bush administrations did this
too. THAT IS MISLEADING. Experts say there were SOME separations
under previous administrations, but NO blanket policy to
prosecute parents, and therefore, separate them from their
children.

Bush and Obama did NOT have policies that resulted in the
MASS separations of parents and children like we're seeing
under the current administration stated Sarah Pierce, a
policy analyst with the Migration Policy Institute.

There's further explanations in the following link for
those interested in the truth: Obviously that excludes you
mhaze:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/06/23/trump-obama-administration-separate-families-immigration/728060002/

Every journey starts with a single step.

Finally we get someone to acknowledge that "there were SOME separations under previous administrations". That being my original point.

Trump's decision to detain all illegals pending assessment meant that there was an increase in separations. I never disputed that.

But following Trump's latest Executive order, the situation has reverted to the previous policy which was the same as Obama's policy.

That's why I asked Foxy earlier..."So now that the Trump policy is to not separate these kids from their loving parents, I assume that you are in full and furious agreement with the Trump position given that its the same as what you say was the Obama position." and why I asked "So the issue becomes whether you (and SR) now support the CURRENT Trump policy or do you condemn it AND the Obama policy."

But you and others don't want to acknowldege that the current policy is the same as the Obama policy so whenever I point it out you just go into dalek mode...."exterminate, exterminate".

Personally I'm disappointed that Trump backed away from mandatory detention for illegals. but he did and reverted to the policies that applied under the Obamessiah. Its just amusing that those suffering TDS are prepared to distort the facts in their anxiety to avoid criticising Obama while excoriating Trump for NOW having the same policy.

Well it seems that AJP has returned from his self-imposed exile following his 'I can totally disprove the existence of God' debacle.

I see that he's still trying to find a form of words to extricate him from the nuclear family blunder from last(?) year.

As to lying about Foxy - anyone who cares can easily see that she made-up claims about the Supreme Court ruling in the Masterpiece Cakes case and then sought to hide it by making up claims about the accuracy of my data (she admitted the latter). So lying?

Its true that I don't pursue all errors of fact made on these pages. But I do so when the error is egregious and when it is central to the argument being made. When someone's outrageous claim about the nuclear family is central to their overall point, then that claim should be outed because it means the entire point is invalidated. When someone makes an outrageous claim about a court case that forms the basis of their claim about said case, again it ought to be outed.

What I find most interesting is just how much people are prepared to beclown themselves in trying to defend their errors. Foxy could've easily just acknowledged her error and moved on and that would've been the end of it. But alas...

SR could've claimed a typo as the cause of his troop numbers in Korea blunder but instead doubled down with some moronic gumph.

There have been many instances here where posters have acknowledged their errors and that's the end of it. But some people just try ad infinitum to muddy the waters enough to deny past errors. I enjoy unmuddying muddy waters.

mhaze,

A few corrections.

Regarding the Masterpiece case in Colorado?

1) The Colorado Civil Rights Commission did decide against
the baker and did order
the baker Phillips, to under-go anti-discrimination
training.

2) The case went all the way to the Supreme Court and
Justice Anthony Kennedy stated that the Commission violated
the baker's rights under the First Amendment which
guarantees freedom of expression.

3) However Justice Kennedy also pointed out that the
court did not address the wider principle of whether a
business can refuse to serve gay people saying -
"This must await further elaboration."

4) The decision of the court focused narrowly on the
handling of the Phillips' case, however leaving OPEN
the question of whether anti-discrimination laws should
supersede religious beliefs in future cases.

All this was given to you in our discussion - and included
in the links I supplied to you - which were self-explanatory.

Now, you can twist and turn things which ever way you like
but I resent being accused of things I did not do due to
your lack of comprehension skills. Over which I have no control.

As for the policies of Trump vs Obama.
What is clear is that Obama in 2014 took a mostly punitive
approach to border crossers. Trump in 2018 took an entirely
punitive one. Obama was reacting partly to circumstances. Trump
was reacting solely to his own desires. Both Presidnet's
prosecuted many border crossers but Trump's zero tolerance
policy created family separation. Trump made separating families
a matter of standard practice. Obama did not.

I told you previously that - it's not really about what Obama
or Trump did. Right now the question is what will Trump be
allowed to do?

cont'd ...

mhaze,

The only person I see who's muddying the waters -
is you.

Try taking off your blinkers and really pay attention
to what is being stated.