Dear NNS,

I am glad you found God. I was wondering where I put her. She finds the religion of Jesus who was not a Christian but a Jew interesting. Although she finds Jesus' religion interesting and is not fond of Christianity since it doesn't follow Jesus' religion. He probably never ate pig and observed the Jewish holy days. She is not so narrow as to be connected with any particular religion. She is so open that she even finds good in Christianity. She doesn't like people making other Gods so thinking of Jesus as divine gets up her nose and a pretty nose it is. She is entire in herself. She is bothered by the Christian beliefs. That stupid, silly, evil religion somehow thinks she has been divided into three parts, some of its followers look down on other religions and many Christians equate morality with sexual conduct. Morality is concerned with much more than who puts what in who. She doesn't think anybody should bug anybody about following any particular religion. She doesn't mind people thinking she doesn't exist. They are simply using the mind she gave them to think that. She inspired me with a song about Jesus to the tune of the jazz standard:

Six foot two, eyes of blue
Jesus Christ, he was a Jew.
Has anybody seen my lord?

Great big nose, talks in prose
Preaching so that everyone knows
Has anybody seen my lord?

Speared in the abdomen
by a Roman
Blood gushing out
Rose from the dead
So it is said
People believe without a doubt

Jesus died, still a Jew
Still a Jew so why aren't you?
Has anybody seen my lord?

To Yuyutsu.

There is too much fog. Too much mist. Too much misdirection and philosophy that leads nowhere. But when someone comes to give a path everyone complains. "How can you say you know the truth?" They lament. "Don't you know the truth is relative, and there are no lies, just different scopes of knowing?" Yet in their arguing, as with your own, they critize the person who gives a streight answer, and holds true to the solid foundation they have. They give a criticism of that path while deceiving themselves that they are actually tollerent of any path.

Jesus said that He is the light of the world, and He told His followers to be the salt and the light of the world. To do that we Christians must stick by Jesus. Not be wavering in compromise to another god who holds no light.

What I am offering is a way to test to if what I say holds true. What do you offer? Any way is good as long as it is the way a person travels? Sounds nice with a good feeling behind it. But it gives no real direction. The issue you have with me is not my points but that I have a direction to follow and strongly encourage anyone who is willing to try and follow the same way and see for themselves if it is right or not.

(Continued)

(Continued)

That should be empowering. Instead it is knocked down by many. By you who says everyone should seek God, and by the godless who hate the idea of God. Both working against the sincere attempt to clear the fog.

I would invite you to seek God too. To Seek God through Jesus, through prayer, and through study the f the bible. If you are closer to Him on that route, shouldn't you take note? Shouldn't you hold to that path with detication and encourage others to do the same. To be able to know God within their own lifetime. Not Know Him like Jesus knows Him. But know Him still well enough. Hope that if God ever calls out you can say "yes Lord, here I am." As many of the prophets had done and then did as they were instructed. As the man who healed Paul's sight did, even against his fears of Paul's intentions. As several stories I have heard from Christians I trust, being called to help in one way or another without knowing how much it would impact those they helped.

Forget the fog that God is whatever you make Himto be, but seek Him for who He really is. Seek Jim because it is worth while to do so.

To Davidf.

Stepping away from your points against such religion and specifically against Christianity to offer a distraction of nonsense? Come on man. Why the attempt? What is the threat? If people seek God are you afraid they will find Him? You believe in no God. You've said so before. "All religion and all gods are man made." Did you not say this on your own? Then what is there to fear if anyone tries my approach? If you are right they will not find anything, and your points will be all the stronger. If I am right then they will find the truth. And they will be better off for it. Not just for finding God. But also for God giving them what He wishes and making them into better people then they were without Him.

Suddenly on about: as if I were waffling in a directionless manner.

<<Suddenly he's on about strong atheism and (not so strong?) atheism.>>

That’s adorable, mhaze.

No, both of us have referenced a webpage which discusses the concept of strong atheism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

It’s not just something I randomly plucked out of thin air in a desperate scramble to salvage some pride, as you would have people believe.

Nice try, though.

No, I noted the difference between strong atheism and atheism in the broadest sense to explain why your analogy comparing communism with left-wingism in general was flawed. My use of the word “likewise” should have made that obvious.

<<Goalposts moved again.>>

“Again”: as if it had happened before. I like it.

Apparently you don’t understand what it means to move the goalposts. Here, the following link should help to understand better:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

<<Every time he talks himself into a corner.>>

“Every time”: as if it’s happened at all.

You are yet to point to a single corner I have supposedly talked myself into, despite my requests that you elaborate on this mendacious claim.

<<It happens so often I'm not even sure the poor bugger is aware that he's doing it.>>

Yet not often enough for you to be able to find an example, apparently.

<<It'd be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.>>

No, what’s pathetic is your readiness to misquote, and take what you do manage to quote correctly out of context.

What’s pathetic is the ease with which you’ll slander others, only to drop the accusation without any retraction as soon as you’re asked to back the claim.

What’s pathetic is getting caught lying about having read a book which your opponent referenced, to make it look like they lied about what it said. (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=7880#243969)

What’s pathetic is having to slink off after being defeated, only to return to a different thread claiming that the opposite happened. (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=7994#247458)

What’s pathetic is having your opponent provide line-by-line quotes to reveal your mendacious recounting of a past discussion, and not being big enough to retract or apologise:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=7994#247502
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=7994#247607
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=8106#252197
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=8106#252810

Dear NNS,

I agree with you that all religions are not the same. From what I know Christianity is one of the worst. However, the secular state has tamed Christianity. If I had said what I have said on this thread several hundred years ago practitioners of your vile religion could have ripped out my tongue, applied thumbscrews, put me on the rack or ended my life in various unpleasant ways. I revel in the freedom offered to me by the secular state.

Almost all people on the planet think they have already found God. In my opinion there is no god for them to find. However, I don't think that enters your mind. You want then to subject themselves to your vile religion which has caused great misery. Your approach is not truth. It is mumbojumbo. I know of no evidence that your vile religion has succeeded in making people better than other forms of mumbojumbo. What's wrong with seeking? Nothing. However, let people seek as they will. You apparently feel you have a God-given right not to live and let live. Your approach? You want them to examine your nonsense. Why not examine all the other forms of delusion? Since I live in a predominantly Christian society and have read quite a bit on the matter I already know a lot about your delusion which you call truth. There are better things to do - more worthwhile ways to spend one's time.. Once you know something is a delusion and I am sure you have nothing to offer but an evil delusion it is pointless to examine it further. My reading of history convinces me that Christianity is a blight on humanity. The ghetto and the gas chamber are products of that blight.