Loudmouth, Reread my post on: Posted by Josephus, Saturday, 20 January 2018 12:50:27 PM Was Australia invaded by war or settled. If Aboriginals say they were invaded they have lost title under international law before WW11. The British say we settled Australia which allows for native title.

I just remembered the names of the two brothers that were going to be in the Movie "Battle Mountain" The Daisy Brothers. Vern &, I still can't remember the other brothers name. They were twins & played Rugby League for Mt Isa.

Hi Josephus,

With the greatest respect, I think you may be mistaken. As I tried to point out, " ..... when the Allies invaded Nazi Germany, I don't think they took anybody's land, except that of war criminals ..... "

Perhaps I'm wrong: when the Allies invaded Japan in 1945, perhaps they seized all the land ? And what, sold it back to the Japanese - or do they still own it all ? I should think that the Chinese, one of our major allies during WW II, would be interested to know that.

In the interminable wars between Germany and France over Alsace and Lorraine, going back a thousand years or more, perhaps in the earlier days, the victors took not only the women but the land as well, but not in modern times ? Perhaps it's the mark of an uncivilised society that yes, the victor does dispossess the defeated people of their lands ? But I don't think it has been done for some time ?

Perhaps you can give examples of where this has happened ?

Cheers,

Joe

Josephus,

For all that, I don't think that it could be said that Australia was invaded in the brutal way it's usually portrayed. I used to think so, without much reflection. Of course, there's a fine line between 'invasion' and 'settlement', and yes, the traditional rights of Aboriginal groups, clans, to forcibly exclude non-clan members, others, from intruding on their lands was, by definition, set aside.

But the 'payment' of rations; the prohibition in settled areas, or where the writ of government ran, of fighting between groups; the provision of educational, housing and medical services (at least in SA) from the earliest days; the provision of vastly superior fishing technology, lines, hooks, nets and boats, to assist people in remaining in their lands - these seem to have won the people over, everywhere, once people understood what these newcomers were on about. I don't think the 'Hostility Gap' between Black and White was anywhere near as wide as it is portrayed these days - but of course, I'm thinking only of South Australia. It may have been far wider in Queensland.

I'm not suggesting that, from then on, it was all smooth sailing, since the traditional ways of thinking, cosmology, ethos, habits, etc. continued, and necessarily clashed with the outside ideas. It's taken many generations of experience for Aboriginal people to get to where they are now, many cultural mismatches and modifications along the way. And many successes.

For example, currently, Indigenous women are commencing university study at greater rates than NON-Indigenous Australian men (if we take as even that the Indigenous population makes up 2.8 % of the total Australian population). Total Indigenous graduate numbers now exceed fifty thousand. Yes, I know this is bad news for virtuous people who need Blackfellas to be helpless - how can you feel pity for people who aren't doing too bad ? But there you go.

There is still a lot to do, particularly in remote communities - i.e. what local people can do, mainly to overcome those 'cultural mismatches'. But Australia Day is probably not a focus of their deliberations.

Loudmouth: I know this is bad news for virtuous people who need Blackfellas to be helpless

In 72 years I have never run into anyone who wanted, "Blackfellas to be helpless." I may be wrong, There are always a few strange people around.

I suggest that the Aboriginal People that object to Invader White People & want their Traditional ways respected be given a large parcel of land with all the varied types of Flora & Fauna on it. They can then go & live there. But once they do they can never come back. No contact with the outside world to be allowed. Nothing from later than 1770 be allowed in that area. No clothes, tinnies , guns, fishing hooks or nets, modern medicine, etc.

The others who don't want to go to "Aboriginal Utopia" have the same rights as white Australians. No special privileges in any way & they accept Jan 26 as Australia Day.

Jayb,

A bit racist: neither you or anybody should have the right to dictate what people can and can't do. Any more than the fantasists who think they can put all Whitefellas on boats and send them back to Europe. Racist, both ways.

My point however was that very few, if any, Aboriginal people want to go back and live a foraging life - which they've always been able to do. On the other hand:

Just to put some flesh on the bones of my assertion about Indigenous women commencing university study, I chased up my data on it:

* In 2016, 5353 female Indigenous commencing students outpaced 169,817 male domestic students by 12.6 % of Equity (3.15%: 2.8%);

and

* In 2016, 2.22 % of all female domestic commencing students were Indigenous (5353 of 241,411) - 79.2 % of Equity (2.8 %).

Indigenous participation at universities is increasing annually at about 7-8 %, and is likely to continue to do so for at least another decade. The Indigenous elites will NOT be pleased: how do you control, and co-opt into the Indigenous Industry, thousands at a time ?

Joe