It took 5 years and a mountain of evidence from witnesses, but the findings and recommendations from the Royal Commission are now out there for all to see. The Commission was critical of the Catholic Church, in particular. In all there are 189 new recommendations, key among them being;

The clergy should be forced to report information confided to them in the confessional.

Celibacy in the Catholic Church should be voluntary.

Creating of a new criminal offence for failing to protect children within an institution.

The creation of a new National Office for child safety.

The report said the number of victims ran into the ten’s of thousands, and the perpetrators were not just a few “rotten apples”

Already the Catholic Archbishop of Sydney Anthony Fisher has attacked the report, saying; "I think any proposal to effectively stop the practice of confession in Australia would be a real hurt to all Catholics and Orthodox Christians and I don't think would help any young person," 

More than 60% of sex abuse survivors said it happened at the hands of the Catholic Church at the average age of 11.

The job of government is now to turn these recommendation into hard and fast laws that protect children from societies institutionalize sex abusers. This is way overdue, and should be acted upon quickly and decisively, despite the howls of protests from the likes of the Catholic Church.

1 Timothy 3:1-7

Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?). He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.
______________________________

If these were applied to the church more often then it would be better. Church elders would have their own families and that would be part of the test to see if they became an elder, and if they were caught in a crime they would have to let go of the station they held in the church until they proved to be better then they were at the time of the crime.

If those two elements were included into the church then I think pedophilia would be reduced greatly.

Royal Commissions are an expensive farce, used by lazy politicians to make us think that they are doing something. They have no authority, and merely make recommendations.

I really love the one about “Celibacy in the Catholic Church should be voluntary.” The Catholic church will take that on board – not!

“The clergy should be forced to report information confided to them in the confessional.” Rave on! Test it against the Constitution.

We have had the stupid, wasteful – in time and money – Commissions over the years. Name one that has been of any practical use.

There are perfectly sound laws to deal with this problem now. Thanks to bludging politicians and and a gutless, incompetent judiciary, these laws are not used. The charades that Royal Commissions are will not change anything.

If our leaders had any honour, if they were at all frank and honest with us, they would be admitting that it was always the leadership that was deficient. They would admit that the laws were always there and so were the watchers and enforcers of the laws, and there is no need for the political show of more, redundant, laws.

But specifically, if our leaders were truly sorry and repentant and had a mite of respect for the laws that are already on the books and concern for children, they would be seeking to charge the leaders responsible, who presided over the dreadful abuses that occurred.

If there were any police charges and court convictions of senior leaders coming from this and there should be already, I might have some confidence that some of it might not be so prevalent in the future.

Paul 1405, you, Greens and other political parties and vested interests are just playing politics, getting mean headlines out of the suffering of children and you have utter contempt for their safety and for Australian laws. I can say that because the conditions I have outlined above have not been met and never will be. But you and they are playing politics.

But the main reason I can say what I have is because the abuses of children continue to this day and into the future and of course right under the noses of the responsible leaders and the watchers set to ensure those unspeakable crimes are deterred and those responsible pursued to the full extent of the EXISTING laws.

However my saddest feelings are there because the community, we the public, usually have an inkling when something is seriously awry. But so often we turn our backs, thinking, 'Someone in government ought do something about that' and fail to take action and follow it up, ourselves.

Having duplicated laws to 'make' us do that, to report a suspected offence, does not address the root of the problem.

Each time we have to bear the cost of a a useless Royal Commission we are reminded of what a bunch of no-hopers our politicians are. They know that they are covering up their incompetence and cowardice, and good old 'she'll be right mate' Australians continue to get the lousy politicians they deserve.

The Catholic Church has said today that it will not be changing any of its 'universal laws'. And there is not a thing that can be done about that.

So, more millions wasted on another Royal Commission whose members knew quite well that they were going to be ignored - but the money's good!

Next: the equally useless and costly RC into banks.

Dear Paul,

It would be fantastic if the Vatican would have a
re-think about criminal offences such as the
sexual abuse of children. If they could somehow
be forced to report these offences. I say hit them
where it hurts - in the pocket. Make it a criminal
offence of not reporting and take away their tax
exemptions and the funding of their schools. Perhaps
that would force Rome to have a re-think. Those
people have gotten away with this for far too long.
It's time to draw a line in the sand and say -
enough is enough!

the catholics will have nothing on the abuse and grooming that will follow from the 'safe schools' program. It has been put together by some very devious people.

Want to talk about paedophiles? What better way to start than with Muhammed and modern day Muslims taking child brides.

As for the Catholic Church, no government has the right to make rules for any religion in Australia. If peados are to be caught and punished, it is up the Australian law and authorities to do it, not a church.

The RC didn't make its findings on either Muslim institutions or government schools public. So what's left ? Christian institutions and private/non-governmental schools, including Catholic schools. Bit of a double whammy.

Can't wait for the findings on Muslim institutions and government schools to be made public.

So, now we know what might have been done in the past. What steps should be taken to ensure it doesn't happen again in the future ? Or do we just keep treating the symptoms, not the causes ? Bill Leak, where are you ?

Joe

The failure of the church to deal with the
sexual abuse of children within its ranks is
horrendous and intolerable - and has led to immeasurable
damage to the victims. The cover-ups, the protection of
abusive clergy and the refusal to admit egregious
mistakes is unjustifiable.

We have not yet even begun to calculate the damage these
crimes have done to people's trust and the reputation of
the church. The law had allowed the church to simply move
demonstrably abusive clergy from parish to parish, giving
them access to new victims.

This must be stopped from being allowed to continue to
happen. The church needs to be made accountable. And not be
above the law.

Dear Foxy,

«Those people have gotten away with this for far too long.»

Those people, that criminal gang who call themselves "Australia", have gotten away with their crimes for far too long: ordering everyone who lives here to follow their laws and dragging those who do not obey them to jail.

Enough is enough: so far the "Australia" gang attacked soft targets, but now they tackled a hard nut, the Catholic Church, who once sided with them (for which they will have to pay dearly), but no longer! Now there will be an open war, many martyrs and lots of blood will be spilt on both sides. Do they really believe that people are going to forsake God's commandments (even if it's only whatever they believe God's commandments to be) for the commands of mere flesh-and-blood?

The church will fight to its last drop of blood and tread over the laws of your gang.

Once again I find myself agreeing with Foxy, sorry Foxy I tend to put the "kiss of death" on what you often say by agreeing with you. You being able to put the point across in a reasoned and balanced manor, where as I tend at times to shoot from the hip and tip the bucket on em', which I shall do in the next paragraph.

Its about time we stopped treating the Holy Roman Mafia as some kind of untouchable sacred cow, and put the boot into them, which we have the power to do. There is no evidence that the Catholic Church has really done anything to deal with the root causes of the problem, clergy are still free to roam the precincts of institutions unchallenged. What the church has done is changed its tack, from a position of harm minimization to itself, bugger the victims,through suppression and denial to a new position of so called openness and remorsefulness. All awhile the Church is saying leave it to us, we will fix the problem ourselves. The same male hierarchy is still in charge, still calling the shots from here to the Vatican, and their objectives have not changed.
Our leadership now has the opportunity to do something about the situation, at least in Australia. They have been given the evidence and the recommendations, now its time to act.

The Australian Constitution does not allow for the making of laws for any religion, so can the naive recommendations of the RC ever be implemented? The vile practices of Islam can be regulated by common law, because we have laws relating to child abuse, age of consent etc., when perpetrators are caught. The same applies to Catholics, if they are caught. But confession and the sanctity of confession, are an internal matter for Catholics, and violating trust in the confessional is unthinkable. Priests have died in the past protecting it, and it is unlikely – even in our steady descent into barbarism now – that we are will start killing priests.

In the secular world, officials - teachers, doctors, and so on , are legally obliged to report cases of child abuse; and most of us not legally obliged would feel duty-bound to report such matters to police.

However, no prosecutor is going to waste time and money trying to prove that someone was lying if the claim that they 'didn't know'.

As for that other silly suggestion (RC's can only suggest) that the Catholic priesthood should be allowed to drop celibacy, how ignorant are the Commissioners that they don't know what the rest of us no: that freedom from celibacy is no protection from child abuse, as is demonstrated in the wider, community.

This Royal Commission, like all the others, is just a trailer load of very expensive manure.

"Our leadership now has the opportunity to do something about the situation, at least in Australia. They have been given the evidence and the recommendations, now its time to act'.

The evidence was always there, Paul. The "leadership" hasn't acted on the evidence in the past. What makes you think that they will act now? And, as you will see above, the recommendations are worthless.

Dear Paul,

One may not sympathise with the Catholic Church, certainly not with its abuses, but this campaign does not end there:

If the state is allowed to trample on everything that is sacred to that large group, then what could stop it from trampling on everything that is sacred to smaller groups and ultimately, to you!?

And everyone has something(s) that are sacred to them.

As I don't know you personally, I cannot tell what is specifically most sacred to you, so here for example is just one wild guess based on your Green leanings:

Suppose government issued a law whereby if you see a shark (whale? dolphin?), anywhere (including even if you only hear from another person who had a close encounter with a shark but wishes to remain unknown), then you must report your sighting so that they will come after it and cull it.

Be sure that I would stand firm for your freedom to not be involved in this chain of animal-murder, no less than I now stand for the freedom of Catholic observants.

Are you aware that such a law mandating the reporting of all adult-child sexual contacts (past, present and potential-future) to state-authorities will stop in its tracks not only the confession in Catholic/Christian churches, but also many New-Age-Green-style activities and therapeutic workshops where confidentiality is paramount and sacred? Are you aware that victims of child-sexual-abuse are already prevented from receiving counselling and other therapies if they want to keep what happened to them secret and not reported to the state? Some still have recourse to New-Age workshops where those who hear their secrets are ordinary people rather than professionals - but all this would have to stop with the proposed laws: not only the excellent technique of Christian confession would be halted but also all those wonderful workshops that help people, including the abused and including their abusers who sincerely seek healing without incarceration - there are many of them and tons of collateral damage would occur just because short-sighted people want to take revenge on the Catholic Church.

"freedom from celibacy is no protection"..

College principal : "It would be understandable if Marist people lost faith in the College and what it stands for..While 20 per cent of Marist Brothers in Australia are known to have been abusers, we must also remember 80 per cent, four out of five, did not."

Does this mean that 20% of Australian married men are boy fiddlers but 80% are not?

Yuyutsu,

Well said. However, I doubt that Paul will be able to see through his Christianophobia to appreciate your comment; he probably had a bad time when he was school kid (Catholic school if my memory is correct). The thing that really concerns me about the Left is that they criticise Christianity (fair enough), but they don't say boo against the horrors of Islam, which is not fair enough.

Yuyutsu
Bad logic. Is being a shark the same as being a pedophile? If smallpox virus is killed do you protect it?

" Are you aware that victims of child-sexual-abuse are already prevented from receiving counselling and other therapies if they want to keep what happened to them secret and not reported to the state? "
Well yes medical treatment is optional not forced onto patients (Hippocratic oath) . Sex abuse is a crime , avoiding adult head-games is not . Force on the child was the issue in the first place.

Dearest Foxy,

Far be it for me, an atheist with - if anything - a Proddy background, to stick up for the Catholic Church, but it does seem to me that the major issues are how institutions can avoid the possibilities for child abuse as much as possible by establishing procedures, staffing, surveillance, etc. so that as few children as possible (ideally, none) can be harmed.

Certainly victims should be compensated, but if we really want an end to such abuse, surely we have to make sure that institutions of all sorts, religious, government, whatever, have proper procedures in place to ensure (as much as possible) that abuses don't recur ?

Love,

Joe

Dear Nick,

«Bad logic. Is being a shark the same as being a pedophile? If smallpox virus is killed do you protect it?»

It is quite possible and not otherworldly for some future (likely right-wing anti-environmentalist) government to be treating sharks similar to the way current government treat paedophiles and smallpox, or like the Nazis treated Jews and Gypsies.

If you are not a Greenie, then you may not be concerned, but I suggest that you should be because some other future government could be treating YOU like current government treats paedophiles or smallpox.

Anyway, my concern at this time was not about paedophiles, sharks or smallpox, but about people being forced to report them, possibly against all that is sacred to them.

And BTW, I would never be reporting anyone to the state-authorities, for anything, if it means that they would be jailed as a result: it would indeed be stupid on my behalf to do so, because if I acquire the karma of causing my fellow-being to be jailed, then eventually I would need to pay for it by being incarcerated myself. Damned to be imprisoned either way, I would say 'No' to this continued and cruel vicious cycle.

«Well yes medical treatment is optional not forced onto patients»

My complaint was actually about the opposite: there are those who do want a medical or other therapeutic treatment, but wouldn't go there because they know that the doctor/therapist/teacher would be legally obliged to report the case to the police, so they just choose to go without the treatment - victims are not relieved of their trauma and perpetrators are not relieved of their sexual-addictions. Wonderful result, you think?

"YOU like current government treats paedophiles or smallpox"
Our council chucks my plastic in a truck and dumps it in blow-fly central. I will refuse them having my refuse if they are going to treat me and yuyutsu that way. Join the smallpox liberation temple.

A kid can ask for treatment for pedophilitis . Who is going to demand names and addresses from her if she refuses ? There is no Medibank gap for torture and confession by the rack or screws on kids. The confession booth is sacred for clergy power over hell-destiny and protecting baddies. Strange that benefits of confession produce 20% abusive clergy who don't see kids' lives as sacred.

Dear Joe,

There are serious challenges facing the Catholic
Church in Australia. Without being apocalyptic
there is evidence of declining full-time personel
to celebrate the routine ballast of the Church:
its irreplaceable ritual life, the aging of priests,
the lack of new candidates, the resistance of drawing
back married, ordained men, the sheer-size of
Australian dioceses- and the controversy of child
sexual abuse. All these devastating facts amount to a
perfect storm on the pretty-close horizon. Yet
inducing hopelessness is not I imagine the aim of the
Vatican or the Pope in Rome, though I imagine that they
do realise that it is about ten minutes to midnight
and something must be done.

There is a window of opportunity in which the Church
can be re-invigorated as a vital backdrop to
contemporary Australian life. Other churches in other
regions throughout history, for example, North Africa,
have simply dwindled into irrelevance. It could
happen here as well. If the Church in this country is to
remain a precious jewel in everyday life, it needs to
make changes. And that as we know is easier said than
done.

However I look to the future with hope that things will
change that Catholicism in Australia will survive. But
to achieve that Catholics will require genuine local
leadership and the willingness to confront both the
difficulties and opportunities that the church faces.
We can only trust and hope that the Church will be able to
do precisely that.

Happy Christmas With Best Wishes
For All of You at this lovely season
And All The Very Best for the New Year 2018!

Trust and hope are not part of this Christmas.
The Catholic Archbishop of Sydney has ruled out considering any changes to the church practice of confession ..

I don't make many contributions to the Forum these days, but this Topic dealing with Child Abuse (paedophilia) is an odious subject for me and many other coppers who've been required to deal with these maggots.

Natural justice would see many of these offenders cured for all time, if it were allowed to progress naturally. First the 'jacks' would 'counsel' them; thereinafter their keepers (the 'screws') would ensure the job was completed. Today dear readers, all paedophiles are immediately placed onto close protection, the moment they enter gaol.

My question is, who've had carriage and/or responsibility for protecting their innocent victims? Children so young they often don't realise they've been sexually assaulted, by their Dad, Uncle, or a 'friendly' neighbour. Most coppers would do their part, and 99% of all screws, would gladly do theirs believe me...! Problem fixed.

Once they start handing out rough justice to one section of the criminal community, they would start it on all criminals, irrespective of their crimes. After that, who knows that anyone of us would be safe from manhandling and brutality by the police.

As for paedophiles being protected in jail, so they should be. Their punishment is laid down by the law; it does not included being bashed up by other prisoners who are also scumbags in their their own right.

Australia is on the downward run, but I hope that we never get down to the level suggested here. Anyone for a game of tossing homos of high buildings? If people have this much disrespect for the law, the legalising of fake marriage would certainly not protect such people.

I'm all for the rule of law but if I were honest
I would have to admit I don't know how "tolerant"
I would be if someone so much as touched a hair
on my children's or grandchildren's heads.

Hi FOXY...I think you'd agree, since you've known me, I've always supported the rule of law, sometimes to my own detriment herein.

However, paedophiles are whole different ball game believe me, whenever you're arresting them. Many know their rights thoroughly while in custody, some are of professional occupations; lawyers; accountants, etc. They use the law to their own advantage, quite unlike many of the crooks I've needed to deal with over time. Many are reasonably well educated, and are involved in their own cliques for added (legal) protection. Police Command ensure a watch is maintained over them particularly if they have some considerable notoriety about them, or the hideous nature their crimes.

Comments from TTBN though he's quite correct in every way, I simply put it down to ignorance, in terms he just doesn't understand or fully appreciate what these types are really like. Even when you're sitting down with them in the interview room, and taking their Statement, and preparing your own Statement of Facts, often this process can take some hours, can make your skin crawl just listening to them, whining and trying to justify their vile crime(s). I could write a veritable book on these individuals believe me FOXY, they're the lowest of the low.

And from a wholly 'unqualified' person; I don't believe these people can be actually cured of this abominable act. This theory is supported by several forensic psychiatrists, I've spoken with over recent years. One I know especially well who's near to retiring and going into private practice claims this offence will become much much worse before it'll ever get better. More frightening, his only solution, is a process that's widely used in US Correctional facilities called 'chemical neutering or castration'. Apparently there's no clinical treatment that's known, that'll fix these blokes up?

O sung wu - I too hardly ever post on this site - some comments are just too ignorant to bother with. First please accept gratitude for the job you do - it's a lot harder than many realise. Secondly, I agree there are no known treatments that will obliterate the desires of a paedophile. Third, i agree they are the lowest of the low - ruining the lives of their victims and causing immeasurable distress to the parent and families who blame themselves for not being there to stop the crime.

The institutional crimes are even more insidious. It is abhorrent that a global institution like the Catholic church while professing to love and protect children, not only allowed reported paedophiles within their ranks to continue, they assisted them by shifting them to new hunting grounds with fresh meat. The matter is not just about "a few rotten apples" as the excuse goes, but about a complete structure of silence and cover up. And it doesn't end there. The victims were routinely dismissed, shunned, blamed and threatened. Some killed themselves. Others are people you would encounter in your work - the homeless, the mentally ill, the alcohol and drug dependent - all of whom had the chance of a safe, productive life denied them by men who strutted about being holier than thou.

That many of the indoctrinated do not get this - or absolutely refuse to - tells us all we need to know about where the Church's "love and protection" lays: Only with themselves to the exclusion of all others. There needs to be arrests up and down the hierarchy. Religion is not exempt from the law.

o sung wu,

I am "quite correct", and I do "fully understand" what filth kiddy-fiddlers are. What you do not understand is, that if you go down the track you talk about, you turn yourself into an animal, no better than they are. And, for all your tough talk, you might come of second best. Big talk is easy. Action, not so easy. These things are best left to the law to deal with. The actual thought about what you would like to do is understandable; doing it would be profoundly stupid and dangerous.

There is also the fact that any harm you did to a paedophile would be a criminal act, and you could end up in jail yourself, also subject to a good thumping from another prisoner or prisoners who didn't like you, for one reason or another. Don't let your emotions, understandable though they are, get the better off you.

Dear O Sung Wu,

Your knowledge of these things is far greater than
mine and you know that I value your opinion.
However I have to agree with ttbn on this one.
The rule of law has to apply even to these degenerates.
It may not be justice (I'd castrate the lot of them)
but ttbn is right - the law may not be just but it is
the law and that's all we've got to go by. I suppose that's
why the statue of justice wears a blindfold.

As for the Religious institutions and the harm that they've
done. I do feel that they should not be above the law.
That in this day and age is intolerable. And they should
be held accountable - definitely!

If we want things to change, and there are already laws to protect and prosecute, then we don't need new laws. We need to stand our ground and hold to the laws already in place.

That's why I quoted 1 Timothy. By the bible's standards the clergy should not be protected. They should at the very least lose their roles in the positions they have in the church, if not more then that and serve their punishments by the justice of the state. (Because they are no longer protected by a place of power in a church position).

Stand by the laws of the state, and let the church know they are against their own teachings by protecting pedophiles.

Sorry I didn't explain that better before.

Hi FOXY & HERENOW...

Unfortunately TTBN is again showing his naivety when he thinks a whole room full of coppers are going to arbitrarily drag one of these pieces of filth out of his slot and give him a good kickin' in front of a whole heap of witnesses, of course not, the utter absurdity of such an idea. You'd never risk, either your retirement benefits, nor your good fame and character on a lousy paedophile. And his further naivety lecturing me on the risks of flogging someone, is rather quaint; albeit ridiculous considering the first lesson a new copper learns is:- CYA. Still our serial 'Propagator of Topics' for 'The Forum', is trying to be helpful in his own inimitable way I suppose, and he does have a penchant for pointing out others failings, when his own are oddly apparent to us all, except to TTBN himself? In any event - the word 'metaphoric' is a useful term whenever one has a need to deal in 'narrative form', with the communities slime 'n vermin emanating from Societies vast underworld?

I'm sorry HERENOW, I'll try to respond to your comment later if you don't mind?

While what the Catholic priests did was putrid I find it hypocritical that the same outrage is not evident for the numerous indigenous elders and Muslims who have done similar crimes in much more recent times. Oh well just shows we all have our pet hates. And I am certainly no fan or supporter of the Catholic religion

O sung wu,

You seem to be off the rails. In your first post you talk about how the “'jacks' would 'counsel' them, and the 'screws' would 'ensure the job was complete'.

To me, that seems that you were talking about police knocking people about, and prison officers doing the same thing. You also say in a later post: “...most coppers would their part, and 99% of all screws, would gladly do theirs believe me...! Problem fixed”.

If that's not showing your liking for unlawful violence, I don't know what is.

Yet, in your haste show me as 'naïve' you change you mind,assuring us that police would do no such thing for fear of losing 'retirement benefits'.

Given your dipping and ducking, changing your mind, and generally showing that you don't know what your are talking about, it is probably just as well that you “... don't make may contributions to the Forum these days..”

You have probably forgotten that you said that, too.

Hi there HERENOW...'...Religion is not exempt from the law...'? Nobody is, irrespective of how the law's enforced or how the eminent jurists perceive it. Paedophilia has always been a contentious offence essentially because many of the offenders don't generally fit into the usual mould of a criminal. As you've avered in your opening contribution. You of course rightly cite the Catholic Church as a convenient catchment area from where many of these offenders originate. Institutional offending appears to be a common denominator for this type of offence, and we can only ask why? To my knowledge there's no other religious order that demands celibacy from their staff/priests. Whether that contributes to priestly progress into paedophilia, I really can't say?

Something that does puzzle me, why aren't these slugs being given up by their own kind, rather than allowing the offenders sufficient succour and sanctuary, to a point that might allow them to reoffend. From my info. the crime is essentially untreatable through normal clinical intervention, however in the United States Chemical Castration is used, in fact mandated in some jurisdictions, and in some circumstances.

From a coppers point of view, these offenders are held in total abhorrence and utter revulsion; and when imprisoned they're held under the highest level of protection within the system, and apparently they play upon this protection quite well, from what is known?

Your comment inter alia; '...there needs to be arrests up and down the hierarchy...'? Whenever you're referring to the Catholic Church; I couldn't agree with you more on that issue. Thanks ol' mate.

I'm coming in a bit late on this, have been in the rough bush to the east of Armidale hunting some very troublesome wild dogs; we only got four in five days but that's four less.

Just how does the Royal Commission think that a Confessor will know the identity of a penitent paedophile?

Forcing priests to inform on penitents will never become law in Australia anyway, the potential for pollies to lose votes is too great.

As for priests marrying there is no great obstacle as married men can be ordained anyway, it's but a short step to allow those already ordained to marry.

Did the RComm. remark on the prevalence of homosexuals among the paedophiles?

All those identified by the RComm as paedophiles should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and those who subsequently covered for them should be prosecuted as accomplices after the fact.

Could it be a vote winner though?

That’s a good question, Is Mise, but probably not for the reason you think it is.

<<Did the RComm. remark on the prevalence of homosexuals among the paedophiles?>>

Why, I could imagine a life of celibacy and, instead, serving God would be a very attractive option for gay people who have been indoctrinated into an institution which teaches them that they will need to abstain from sexual activity just because their sexual preference was “sinful”.

Now that you mention it, I would suggest that most offenders in the Church were homosexual.

But, again, not for any homophobic reasons that you may have had in mind.

Hi o sung wu, welcome back to the forum, such an abysmal crime as paedophilia does ignite ones emotions. When its at a personal level such as family, it certainly provokes a person to a point of extreme anger, and the desire for retribution is very strong. Like ttbn I cannot agree with law officers dispensing rough justice, no matter how much I would like to see it done.

My position is, its getting rather late in the day for action. The Catholic Church has had a good 20 years in Australia to clean up its act, I question what has it actually done in that regard? A bit of window dressing, some self serving platitudes from the likes of the Pope and some local Bishops, not much else. Due to their position within society, the Church has been treated as some kind of special case, a sacred cow, not to be touched, its has, and still is, dictating its own course of action. The Church hierarchy thinks they are in such an invincible position that they can come out and thumb their noses, telling the rest of us what they will, and what they will not do. For the politicians its time for action, its not going to be easy, this mob have a very strong influence in political circles, and will not take imposed reform from outside laying down.

"I find it hypocritical that the same outrage is not evident for the numerous indigenous elders and Muslims who have done similar crimes in much more recent times" Runner a Church apologists looking for a distraction. The short answer is we deal with the elders, the Muslims the Mr Whippy Man if necessary, just as we should deal with the clergy. I like that last bit, trying to put it all in the past. Can you guarantee its not still happening? Maybe you are content with the reassurances of the Church hierarchy that they have it all under control, that has been their line from day one.

Catholic bishops and cardinals are the top of the heap . Indigenous alcoholics in the bush are not but still get cops at their place.
The report is not good news for Mr Pell and is unfortunate timing for the poor man .

o sung wu, "Something that does puzzle me, why aren't these slugs being given up by their own kind.."

That sounds like a more productive line of investigation and a move away from the ideological political partisanship and political point scoring.

The public's credulity is sorely stretched by the denials of the leaders and the colleagues of the offenders. Examples could be Saville and the ABC, or Queensland Labor and Keith Wright or Bill D'Arcy. Remembering though that it isn't only child sex offences that 'escape' the knowledge of their mates and leaders. Taking Labor again for convenience,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_politicians_convicted_of_crimes

Sadly, it seems to be a OLO (and social media) tradition to neglect earlier posts, however I'd like to draw attention to my earlier post, on page 1,

leoj, Saturday, 16 December 2017 8:06:56 AM
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=8064&page=1

Just to say, o sung wu, that offenders can be very clever, often hiding out front and they are clever and manipulative. Their leaders must rationalise their own complicity (as the public would see it) in not investigating any first signs and by avoiding an audit of compliance with acceptable behaviour standards.

I might also draw a parallel with the sorry record of federal parliamentarians in the dual citizenship saga. Not as nasty an offence, but nonetheless another example of unethical leaders and political convenience that suits them. Then they have the hide to say that a public servant should take the responsibility while they take the $$.

Then there is the example of the billion dollar illicit drug industry that constantly evades solution. But one of the very first actions of the elected Qld Labor government is to disband the highly effective police team and cooperation that has been getting on top of criminal gangs. When Labor's Palaszczuk came to power originally, her first target was to 'deep six' the successful anti bikie (anti criminal gang) VLAD law that had been cleared by the High Court.

I will believe that the politicians are getting serious about offences committed against children when they support police in investigating and charging leaders. Fat chance of that, huh?

I thought I might give another example, this time from work and thinking of those dangerous and dirty male jobs in construction and mining in particular.

To cut to the chase, there will never be safe working environments until the head decision maker, the CEO, is held directly and PERSONALLY responsible for sloppy or non-existent compliance with available workplace safety regulations.

That would go down like a lead balloon with Australian federal politicians who can get away with avoiding Ministerial responsibility and muddying the waters even more so as they thumb their noses at the public they are supposed to be serving,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_ministerial_responsibility

All should understand that it is crucial given the trust and power vested in senior decision makers that they stand down, resign, at the whiff of things going wrong. Think about why, good people!

There seems to be a hatred-competition going on here.

I am not in your league, guys.

I find this culture of hatred and delight in punishment, worse than all harm ever done by paedophiles.

This witch-hunt caused more collateral damage than the damage it sought to prevent:

Intergenerational social cohesiveness was broken. An invisible barrier was created and adults no longer dare, and in some cases not even allowed, to play or talk with children (without any sexual intent). All friendship between adults and minors is considered sexually-suspicious, even when it isn't. Adults are no longer allowed to express this part of them which is still a child. Adults are now too afraid to help children in distress. No males take the risk of becoming school-teachers and men are even afraid to go out their front-door when children are playing at the other end of the street. Red-tape was added to employment to the degree that jobs are lost and private practitioners cannot start businesses. I even know of a case of a boy who failed a subject in year 12 and when he wanted to complete it the next year, he was told to obtain a police-clearance... just to stay with his school-mates, because he meanwhile turned 18 - so he didn't complete that course.

The very existence of this fear campaign, causes people to think of sex whenever they see a child, that being the closest connotation, including those who never had such thoughts before. These fearful thoughts can become obsessive and I wonder how many new paedophiles were created this way?

Previously, child and now-young-adult sexual-victims who didn't want others to find what happened to them, were able to obtain confidential professional counselling/therapy. Now they can't.
Paedophiles too, who were disgusted and fed-up with their condition and sought a cure, could previously obtain confidential professional counselling/therapy. Now they can't.

Now authorities seek to block all remaining avenues for healing as well: the confessional, spiritual/therapeutic workshops, and just the private ears of any trusted good-Samaritan. This leaves but one option for victims and remorseful perpetrators alike - suicide!

Yuyutsu,

Good summing up of the rot that has set in, impairing peoples' natural humanity. Should I be required, in the future, to give help to women or children which would entail physical contact, I will not be rendering any assistance to them. Nobody, particularly females, can be trusted these days. We men have to protect ourselves.

Citizens are not able to enter windows at night to learn about what valuables are there . Commbank wants to help free flow of funds to boost Chinese drug enterprises and the cops hit them . Disgrace.

AJ,

"Now that you mention it, I would suggest that most offenders in the Church were homosexual.

But, again, not for any homophobic reasons that you may have had in mind."

The only reason that I had for mentioning it is that it's not PC to do so and not conducive to vote catching.

Paedophilia might also be genetic in some cases.

Hi there LEOJ...

Unfortunately my dementia is gaining ground; but what I should've said is; another line of enquiry that's often taken with criminals, apart from teasing out contrary and conflicting accounts, is attempting to turn one against the other, or ors. But as I eluded to earlier on, many of these creatures are well educated, and smart enough to fully appreciate their rights, more so than some coppers, some more so than me I suspect?

The old days of the 'typed record of interview', though open to all manner of unlawful manoeuvring, did make it easier to ensnare 'guilty' parties. Today, police interviews are more like a 'Warner Bros.' Production , in Technicolour' and Hi Fi sound. I'm not for a moment suggesting it makes it much harder to obtain inculpatory evidence by dint of admission(s) but it does create inchoate evidence anticipating or preparatory to a conspiracy to commit further criminal act(s) that might emerge; thus muddying the waters somewhat. Personally, the new Interview techniques worked well for me when I was still in the job? Allowing the team to sit down quietly and watch the Interview all over again. Looking out for the small nuances and minute discrepancies' that were not picked up, about confederates etc. I should also admit also I've never been a Case Officer for any Paedophile brief.

In any crime LEOJ, investigations can only be successful, if all involved are dispassionate and completely unemotional, not only about the crime itself, but the suspects involved in that crime. On a personally level, I'd delight in doing a 'Mexican Hat Dance' on the faces of all Paedophiles, notwithstanding the myriad of excuses they may proffer for their actions. But upon reflection, why should I end up in 'the go slow' because of them? Without labouring the point, I'd be most surprised, if most ordinary men wouldn't harbour similar sentiments as myself? There again, perhaps not, the world's indelibly changed, and old men like me, have been left far far behind?

Don't worry, we're right there with you, O Sung Wu. :)

Cheers,

Joe

Dear O Sung Wu,

We certainly are right there with you.

A Big Hug.

Thinking of you.

Hi there FOXY & LOUDMOUTH...

Thank you so much for your kind words of encouragement FOXY and Joe, that's so very nice of you both. It sort of sneaked on me, in the strangest of ways, essentially by my not being able to recognise incorrectly spelt words, syntax 'simply' spelling even basic punctuation. You've probably noticed it lately? Certainly my wife has. Anyway, no whinging, the world's full of whingers and whiners, therefore I don't wish to add to that total. Thank you both again, I do appreciate it very much indeed.

Geoffrey Luck mentions the lack of the Royal Commission's interest in the “much reformed” present, preferring to dig up the past. (Quadrant Online 19/12/17). That's the Royal Commission that went on and on for 5 years, and cost the Australian taxpayer $500 million!

“Like a team of council rat catchers”, as Luck describes them, they made much of kills in the sewers, but nothing about “rodents on the wharves”. In a “magnificent sleight of hand”, the Royal Commission focused on old history, but not what has been done about it.

The RC concentrated on easy cases. Thirty five percent of cases focused on the church, claiming that 60% of all cases related to “religious groups”. Ignored were, “ many state institutions, including the schools, the difficult area of domestic abuse, and Muslims.”

The  McLellan Royal Commission, was clearly a witch hunt against the Catholic Church, designed to make the government look good, but cover up the vast problem that the politicians don't have the guts to investigate.

A complete failure in other words.