In a recent visit to New Zealand, and with a local general election looming, I was of the opinion that NZ Labour was heading for an electoral disaster. Labor leader Andrew Little was openly writing himself off, admitting he did not want the job and giving every indication that his party had no chance, Labor was polling a pitiful 24%. Two months out from the election the Labour mob bit the bullet, abandoned Little, who stepped down , in favour of the deputy leader, the inexperienced and untested. 37 year old Jacinda Argern. The new leader launched an immediate election platform of what she called “relentless positivity” . Joining Argern as her new deputy was Kelvin Davis, also a controversial choice for some.
Labour started to claw back support, but with little time and a lot to do, it still seemed a forlorn hope. At best Argern might hold Labour to be at least a creditable opposition to The Nationals led by Prime Minister Bill English.
The shock result is now history. With the backing of the Greens, and more importantly the support of Winston Peters New Zealand First Party, Labour won the election, and Jacinda Argern is New Zealand’s new Prime Minister.

Is there a lesson for Australia in all this. Could the Australian Labor Party dump Bill Shorten and install a young and vibrant leadership to take on the stogy old conservatives, and deliver an Australia for tomorrows generation. Its a possibility, Penny Wong and Tanya Plibersek get ready.

Paul,

There is hope for Shorten, a little, but no hope for Labor if he stays.

It will need a hard-nosed belligerent to lead Aust against the NZ attack on Canberra . The foreign citizen MP conspiracy and resistance to Kiwis being deported signal a growing threat . Julie Bishop will be struggling to be civil to the NZ militancy backed by missiles from Hawke's Nest , symbolic of the Nazi eagle.

Rocket Lab won big at the NZ Innovation Awards tonight , the company was named the Supreme New Zealand Innovation for 2017, as well as winning the award for innovation in design and engineering. Cubesat are the first Australian-built satellites to go into space for more than a decade. Of the 28 cubesats deployed in May, eight are not working.

What F* rot Paul 405...

And what is your latest stupid idea of a braves new world order? That is post rainbow flag of course!

Puleeze....Shorten was always short on....a sleaze is a sleaze whatever side he may be on.
Turnbull postulates grand ideas but eventuate to nothing when put into practice.
This country has the leaders it votes for....so it's the voters that have the problem...not the pigs at the trough

New Zealand is a separate, sovereign nation. It has its own unique issues and priorities. What happens there is irrelevant to and not transferable to Australia.

Paul1405 comes from another thread where he pretends that what is happening in the US is not only applicable to Australia but it is actually happening here.

That is ludicrous. It is a pub argument trick that might only work with the limp-brained drunks and wilfully ignorant and uninformed. It is mischief making. Appeals to the Greens demographic though,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH_MBwQhGgA

The next election will certainly be interesting.
What has happened in the UK, the US, and now New
Zealand - indicates that there are so many
dissatisfied voters who are no longer willing to
go with the status quo. Whether Australian voters
will prove to follow suit - I guess we'll have to wait
and see. Although there are already signs in the current
polls that voters are not happy with the current state
of affairs. But predicting the outcomes is always risky,
at the best of times. Many don't like Mr Shorten as
leader of his party, but the same can be said about Mr
Turnbull's leadership as well.
Interesting times ahead.

Foxy,

What has happened in NZ is exactly pro status quo, not anti status quo. The same old same old.
Liberal/labor, Liberal/Labor, Liberal/Labor...

That is actually the problem Foxy, it's not the solution...

Dear DD,

Too early to tell whether it's the solution.
Obviously, the voters did not like what went
on before. We shall have to wait and see what
happens next - as I stated earlier - pridicting
the future is risky at the best of times.
Look at what happened in the US - and what they
ended up with. The Trump Disapproval Crocodile
continues to grow teeth.

Unpack the rhetorical trickery of the last sentence of the post above is an example of the false comparison that is being employed often by shysters and the media commentariat. In fact there is no comparison at all and nothing to do with Australia.

False comparisons and non sequitur are common devices used by priests in sermons.

Of course it is far easier to talk about Trump than it is to address those 'wicked' problems like the 'Struggle streets',

"Former Labor leader Mark Latham slams Labor over gay marriage

FORMER Labor leader Mark Latham has slammed his party’s “obsession” with gay marriage saying it should focus on the nation’s “Struggle Streets” instead.

He told 3AW radio Bill Shorten’s private members bill to push for changes to the marriage act to allow same-sex couples to tie the knot, to be introduced into parliament on Monday, was nothing more than a symbolic gesture.

He said the biggest social issue facing Australia was unemployment, drug use and homelessness in suburbs such as Mt Druitt which was the focus of the SBS documentary, Struggle Street.
“If you are interested in equality and social justice in Australia then what was the really big event in the month of May,” he said. “We had the Struggle Street documentary which revealed that in the nation’s public housing estate, most notably in Mt Druit people live in conditions that you wouldn’t wish upon your dogs. Absolute chaos, despair and hopelessness in their lives.
“And surely, you would have expected a serious national response from the party of social justice?
“We didn’t hear anything.
“They’re obsessed, instead, by gay marriage.”
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/gay-marriage/former-labor-leader-mark-latham-slams-labor-over-gay-marriage/news-story/6c89f7077536bf321ee40c25946e6f0f

And what about Australia achieving the frightening status as one of the world's highest users of illicit drugs (and climbing!)? Hmmm, now what possible role would successive federal governments' immigration decisions and poor screening have had in that? What about Labor's Kevin 707 and the Greens' 'Open Door'?

Far better to talk about Trump and hope some mud will splatter this way?

Foxy

The Trump disapproval crocodile, as you put it, may be growing teeth, but who will it devour?
It's already devoured Hillary Clinton, who's reputation is in tatters.
There are plenty of people like myself, who are extatic Giant Trump is tramping around Giant Land, kicking over established castles.

Most predictions re NZ issue bleak warnings. Poor people of NZ with a psychotic Labor Gvt to contend with.
Another stampede of NZ's on the way to Australia.

Foxy

Obama is another Trump breakfast in the crocodile pit.
Now the dust has settled in the Democrats camp, the truth may now be exposed. And exposed it is.
Obama is, as suspected all along, a homosexual. His sick wife(sic), is actually a tranvestite. His children are adopted.
But another of the Democrat facades exposed after Trump

"The story is a fabrication. The site itself contains a disclaimer stating that this story — as well as everything else it publishes — is completely made up:

DISCLAIMER: America’s Last Line of Defense is a satirical publication that may sometimes appear to be telling the truth. We assure you that’s not the case. We present fiction as fact and our sources don’t actually exist. Names that represent actual people and places are purely coincidental and all images should be considered altered and do not in any way depict reality.

In other words, if you believe this crap you’re a real dumbass."
diver dan. going down staying down

Dear DD,

And here I was taking you seriously.

cont'd ...

Dear DD,

I forgot to add that:

You're entitled to your negative opinions
but post slowly in future.
I only have two middle fingers to go around.

Foxy...NNN

I'm sorry if this truth is offensive to you, as I'm sure it must be. But truth eventually prevails, and it has, against eight years of subterfuge, lies and conniving by the Democrats. The truth is out. Thank God for the "Straight" Mr Trump, and an honest administration at last, in the USofA.

Dear DD,

It was the "Nothing But the truth,"
part that tripped you up.

Well played.

It's true , all true for diva danielle . Hillary sends half of US uranium to Russia , the other half to North Korea. Trump will shoot , blast , bomb , shatter , drain , flatten and do tough things to baddies . bang bang thank you girlies.
_ tweeted from adult day-care , Washington number 1 first great .

Dan dived.

OH&S warning

Never smile at a crocodile

And its good night to you, and good night from me :-))

Nope, none.

I will concede that other countries, New Zealand included, have their own unique political and social problems to deal with, but they have some similarities with Australia as well. There has been a shift of support, away from the staid established political regimes towards a more risky, untried political philosophy. This shift of support is not an all out revolution, aka Russia 1917, by any stretch, and is not likely to be.
What I can see is a general dissatisfaction with the old political guard, in Australia's case the Liberal/National and Labor Parties, evidenced by their declining primary support, and a willingness of the electorate to embrace a freshness of ideas. even if it is from people who are untried and inexperienced. I do not believe the conservative side of politics can achieve anything more than a push to even more conservatism, One Nation is well placed to take advantage of that shift. Labor on the other hand could move toward a more progressive leadership in the future, and away from the Bill Shorten kind of leadership.

" Labor on the other hand could move toward a more progressive"
Yes it could. Trump thinks he's progressive. Bikie gangs have some dynamic leaders.

There is definitely a swing away from the old regimes, but I don't know that it is towards anything radical. These old regimes have moved too far away from the tried and true, and they will be punished as per the U.S and Europe (Brexit). The lunge to the left has been ruinous.

Paul,

I also notice that the NZ greens are the part of the staid old political regime that got the biggest hammering. It is similar to what happened with Howard when after a decade of sound government, the voters forget what a screw-up Labor was.

I believe that Winston Peters saw the desperation of Labour to govern and that they would be completely beholden to him, and has got out of it 4 cabinet positions, deputy PM and a veto over every single policy that Labor and the greens put forward.

In short, WP has Jacinda by the short and curlies even more than Tony Whinger and Rob Oafshot had Juliar by the balls and the Labour government will be a farce just as the last Labor term.

As for Wong or Plibersek, neither of them are fresh faces with new ideas and both carry a lot of baggage.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I see that you're still as "unbiased" as you've always
been regarding the Greens and Labor.

Congratulations!

Shadow,

With the departure of "Helicopter' Brommy there is not much the Coalition can offer up in the way of a "fresh" face, now is there. Are you still praying for the second coming of the Messiah, the return of the Mad Monk himself?

Don't know what planet you are on Shadow, but the NZ Greens won 8 seats, always going to back Labour. Winnie the Pooh as my partner likes to call her distant cuzzie bro with his NZ First Party won 9. WP is a wily politician and you never know which way he will jump. The fact is the staid old Conservatives, with their belief that they have a divine right to rule. sounds like the Coalition in Aussie, are no longer able to take the people for granted, and were give their marching orders in no uncertain terms.

Foxy,

I have never claimed to be unbiased. Perhaps you could address the points I raised?

Dear Shadow Minister,

Actually you did. You tried to prove to me on another
discussion how "unbiased" you were. Why you even told me
that you support same sex marriage among other things -
which was to illustrate just how "unbiased" you really
are. As for addressing the "unbiased" points that you've
raised? Been there, done that, only to have you brush
it all aside as "Left-Whinge." So I won't bother from now
on. Instead I've got to respect your "unbiased" beliefs,
apparently.

I'll leave it there.

Dear Paul,

Talking about elections ...

One of my favourite quotes -

"Welcome to a dangerous new era - the Unlightenment -
in which centuries of rational thought is overturned
by idiots. They're everywhere - real debate and science
in favour of soft-headed bunkum. But instead of slapping
these people round the face till they behave like adults,
we encourage them. We've got to respect their beliefs
apparently."
(Charlie Brooker).

Did you watch the "Four Corners" program on the NBN last
night?

The only person able to claim non bias would be a person fresh out from a lobotomy procedure and anyone else claiming such is self delusional.
The very fact that you follow or endorse a political point of view infers bias so I really don't know what is being claimed when a person says they're 'not biased'
Having an open mind implies that a person is trying to view something objectively in attempting to assess it's validity but even then, a degree of bias is present

Yes Foxy, just sub'd a discussion topic on the NBN. I recall another formuite who used a previous nick to claim he was a moderate, and Shadow claims to be unbiased. I claim to be JC reincarnated, since outrageous claims are the order of the day.

Foxy,

When you essentially claimed that I only disagreed with "lefties" I simply pointed out that I have disagreed with other conservatives too. That you cannot differentiate between the specific and the general is your problem, not mine.

So you agree that Jacinda "sold her arse" to become PM?

Paul,

PW and TP have been MPs for 15 and 19yrs respectively, and are nearly as old as BB. They are both pretty stale. I don't see Aus being ready for an ex-con drug dealer as the first Bloke.

The greens lost 6 seats or 40% of their MPs, a thrashing by any other name

Dear Shadow Minster,

I seem to recall Tony Abbott was willing to do whatever
it took to get elected.
But he got knocked back. Isn't that the way the game is
played. Whatever it takes? Ask any politician. Nobody wants
to lose - right? Or in this case - he was left - dumped,
and possibly at the next election he will follow his
previous leader John Howard
- by being kicked out of his electorate as
well. We can only hope.

cont'd ...

Shadow Minister,

You do more than "only disagree" with "Lefties".
You consistently label them inappropriately
and finger-point, and attack. Everything is their
fault in your eyes - so cut the baloney. We don't
have the appetite for it. And you have no credibility.

Much as I can't stand the bloke, I think there is a great deal of hope for Shorten.

It's called Malcolm Turnbull.

Sadly , our Bill doesn't have thoughts and won't get into the constitution but Tony Abbott probably will.
"Chinese President Xi Jinping has just accomplished something Donald Trump could only dream of: getting himself written into his party's constitution.

The Chinese Communist Party has voted to put Xi into the same pantheon as Communist Party legends Mao Zedong and Deng Xiaoping, paving the way for him to lead the country into the indefinite future."

Foxy,

When I finger-point at left whingers it is generally for a very good reason. The ALP has managed to cock up just about everything it has touched, and many I have predicted long before. For example, the stuff ups with the NBN I predicted most in 2010, the problems with renewables that led to the SA blackouts I spoke about in 2007 and the resurgence of people trafficking I predicted in 2008 and was mocked for claiming that we could see tens of thousands of illegals arriving by boat. Either I am extremely lucky or I know what I am talking about.

As for the mangling of Left whingers names, I notice that when lefties do it there is complete silence from the Foxy front. So when you have taken the plank out of your eye, then talk to me about the splinter in mine.

As for the Jacinda regime, coalitions that succeed usually lead to stronger second terms, and those that are fractious lead to heavy defeat. Given that NZ first and the greens are deeply opposed on many issues, I suspect that it will be the latter.

<<the stuff ups with the NBN I (Shadow) predicted most in 2010>> How insightful of you Shadow, way back in 2010 you were able to predict that some time in the future Money Bags Malcolm would come along and make a complete cock up of the NBN. Well done son, top marks, you are a modern day Nostradamus. Were you also able to predict that the Mad Monk would prove to be such a boofhead as a Prime Minister? I did.

Shadow Minister,

I stopped reading your post after the sentence -
"The ALP has managed to cock-up..." (again
blaming only the ALP - no bias there).

Dear Paul,

We're told that -
Malcolm Turnbull changed the plan for the NBN
to incorporate a range of obsolete
and second-rate technical solutions which he
proposed when in opposition. The cost of this 2nd
rate solution was pretty much the same as the
original Labor plan, so Mr Turnbull sabotaged the
future of the NBN. However the following link
explains more:

http://www.crikey.com.au/2016/01/13/who-you-should-blame-for-the-nbn-hint-not-just-turnbull/

Foxy,

Pity you have joined the three monkeys. It is clear that you rely almost exclusively on left whinge news media and regurgitate their opinions uncritically.

None of the technology going into the NBN is obsolete, and reusing existing equipment will save up to 50% of the total cost.

Which of Krudd's cost estimates are you using his original NBN cost of $4.7bn, the $27bn, or the $43bn? Perhaps you forget that when Juliar was booted out the NBN had spent about $15bn and connected only 3% of households. The real cost of Labor's FTTH NBN would have been closer to $80bn.

The problems with speed are not due to the technology used but the high cost that the NBN is trying to recover.

Paul,

The one easy prediction that I made was that the Labor green alliance would be a complete disaster.

Shadow Minister,

If you keep doing what you're doing, you'll keep getting
what you've got.

But not with me.

Enjoy your gruntlement.

Consider yourself binned.

As MT was sinking into the political quagmire this week that is the governments NBN roll out fiasco, things were certainly looking grim for the poor PM. Then, like magic, a god send, a sure winner, the Fed's were raiding the premises of the AWU in Sydney and Melbourne. the union where Bill Shorten was once top of the heap. How fortuitous for Malcolm, his newly established union bashing attack dog, the Registered Organisations Commission (ROC), was at work investigating ten year old donations made by the union when Shorten was its head. Plenty of dirt to dig up there, to be sure, to be sure, good stuff Malcolm must have thought.
Then along comes the sanctimonious Minister herself Michaelia Cash, telling all and sundry, over and over, including the Senate Estimates Committee, how devastated, and shocked she was to be accused of tipping off the media about the whole grubby business. Next thing Cash is back with a groveling apology admitting it was her office which had compromised the Federal Police by tipping off the media. Such shameful action.
Some staffer in Cash's office has been made the fall guy and according to the sanctimonious Minister "My staff member has now resigned." What about ministerial responsibility Minister and you resign. Unbelievably distasteful action by the Minister and Turnballs in the parliament.

Foxy,

Feel free to retreat to your safe places where no one will challenge you to think.

Paul,

As you are fond of ICAC, just think of the ROC as the ICAC of nongovernment organizations, where corrupt misuse of workers money is exposed.

I look forward to GetUp becoming recognized for what it is an affiliated organization of Labor and the greens.

Consider Malcolm's union bashing attack dog like the Independent Commission Against Corruption. I am still laughing.... Shadow, I am not as naive, or as biased as you. I am not going to swallow that load of old cobblers. You might fool some forum newbies, and a few others that may be mentally deranged with your BSBB, oft posted chucklesome nonsense, but you don't fool me for a second.

Have you ever been a member of a trade union in your entire working life, or have you just pocketed the benefits without paying the piper?

Given the content of your sometimes ridiculous postings, you should be a fully paid up member of the Theatrical and Amusement Employees Union. It is a union that welcomes clowns and other assorted entertaining odd bods into its ranks. There is a home there for you my dear forum friend.

And while you're at it....What happened to the Conservatives in New Zealand? You have never given an explanation.

Paul,

Considering your normal semi-psychotic ravings against the coalition I would skip over naivety and go straight for deluded, and you claiming that you are not as biased as I am is a joke.

Thanks to the political arms of the unions (labor and the greens) the regulatory oversights of the unions have been close to zero, and even those they regularly ignore.

Barely a week goes past without some example of union thuggery, extortion or corrupt officials pilfering from "workers" funds, and the thought that some independent body might actually enforce the rule of law in industry scares the pants off all the ex-union MPs. Especially ones like Shorten who have happily broken the law in the past with no worries about being caught.

I have never been a member of a motorcycle gang, a union or any other shady organization.

Shadow, I will see your bias and raise you a Murdoch, you've got no ace in the hole have you. Can't defend Turnballs, Cash or those conserve losers in NZ. AND!.... when did I ever claim to be unbiased? NEVER! Unlike my forum friend I can admit it!

p/s I thought you were a member of 'Dykes On Bikes' Sorrrrrrrry. Have a good day me old forum buddy.

Shadow Minister,

The only person I am retreating from on this Forum
is you Sir. Because thinking is not something you
are now obviously capable of doing.
When I see that your tactics have changed I shall
be more than happen to once again engage with you.
In the meantime, I have better things to do with my time.
Until then -

Have a nice day.

Foxy,

When you make broad sweeping statements that would imply that I consider every conservative poster a leftie, but perhaps I am too much of a stickler. I apologize as I value your contribution.

Dear Shadow Minster,

Thank You.

Please accept my apology as well.

I also value your contribution and respect your
opinion.

Day after day, now, it seems that Turnbull is Shorten's best hope. Not that I want to see Shorten as PM , but Turnbull has certainly lost rights to the job and, had no right to it in the first place. Anyone of any political persuasion who usurps a first term leader is an utter scumbag and a totally untrustworthy person in my book.

When Malcolm Turnbull challenged Tony Abbott for
the leadership, bad polls were one reason why.
Can Mr Turnbull turn things around before the next
election? That remains to be seen.

If not I'm sure that Mr Abbott will be there willing
to pick up the pieces. That is if Peter Dutton and
Julie Bishop let him.

Foxy,

While TA was extremely competent in some areas he had an inability to perceive how the public would view some of the actions he took. I don't believe that he will get a second chance.

Turnbull has made the serious mistake of trying to play like a gentleman in the belief that people will judge him on his results, which is a fantasy considering the outrageous tactics and rank populism of BS.

TA, if used properly, could shred BS's reputation, but is left on the bench. I believe that if anyone Julie Bishop has the requisite mix of experience, political acuity, a strong policy ability, and the aggression needed to lead well and hold the opposition to account.

Dear Shadow Minister,

It certainly is going to be a difficult choice at
the next election - depending who the leaders
will be. It would be amazing if
Julie Bishop was given a go. But realistically
being a female, no matter how capable, I don't
like her chances with the ambitious men in the
party. Tony Abbott included. I would not rule him
out just yet. As for Bill Shorten? He may be in with a
chance if Malcolm Turnbull continues as leader

Hi Foxy, don't worry about Dud Dutton, he's been exposed as next to useless. Bishop could be a winner for the Conservatives, more than a match for Shorten. To be honest the best thing for the Coalition would be a stint in opposition, a change to prune the dead wood, and rebuild. get back on track etc. The Liberal Party really has to decide if it is a liberal party in the true sense of the word, or simply a party dominated by crusty old conservatives.

Hi Paul,

Sounds good to me!