Issy, there is no obfuscation with me, its crystal clear. We make a fantastic team, you put up the nonsense, and I shoot it down. How many years now have we been discussing your gun crazyness... three... maybe more. Just when I think I have made real progress and converted you to the ways of the righteous, you sink once more into the morass of moral degradation.
Do not fear my friend, salvation is at hand. I shall never give up on you. Together we shall overcome!
p/s I never thought I would ever say this, please bring back leoj as your back stop. The new one Vigilante Bob, aka ALTRAV, is totally off the planet, and I can't help him, he's beyond redemption. Unfortunate but true, he would test the resolve of any Messiah.

Well Paul, how about shooting down the fact that the Greens, when they had the chance, refused to back a move to strengthen the gun laws.

Obviously, you don't know the meaning of 'obfuscation'!

Paul, as usual you deflect your response so as to not answer the questions on the table. I give you another opportunity to comment on my suggestion that even after removing ALL the traditional guns in private ownership, what do YOU suggest we do about the guns like spear guns and nail guns? Especially when a nail gun is in fact just another, but more compact form of the very same guns you wish to remove from society. We are all looking forward to your answer.

//what do YOU suggest we do about the guns like spear guns and nail guns?//

Sounds like somebody has been watching too many movies. Just because something has the word 'gun' in its name, it does not follow that it makes an effective projectile weapon. Mythbusters and others have looked into the use of nail guns as projectile weapons, and concluded that they're not very effective (unless you're firing a contact shot).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMAVSydJfZg
http://www.suecoletta.com/on-writing-fiction-how-to-use-a-nail-gun-like-a-firearm/

I couldn't find much useful info on what happens if you fire a spear gun out of water. I imagine they're somewhat more dangerous than nail guns, but I suspect they'd only be effective over short range, and that you could get better range and accuracy, with similar penetration, from a decent bow or crossbow (arrows and bolts are fletched). Crossbows are illegal in Australia.

Nail guns and spear guns are fine by me because whilst they are undoubtedly dangerous, they are nowhere near as dangerous as firearms which are designed for one purpose, and one purpose only: to kill people. And which, with the high standards of modern engineering, are far too good at that job. There is no way that Stephen Paddock would have been able to kill 58 people and injure 527 in such a short space of time with a nail gun or a spear gun, or even a well-designed semi-automatic crossbow and extremely good aim.

Guns are just too effective at killing people these days, and their use should be tightly restricted to those with genuine need, and forbidden for people who just like playing with guns. They are tools, not toys, and the risks of letting every Tom, Dick and Harry have them just because they think they are entitled are far too high.

Toni,

"..... Crossbows are illegal in Australia.

Nail guns and spear guns are fine by me because whilst they are undoubtedly dangerous, they are nowhere near as dangerous as firearms which are designed for one purpose, and one purpose only: to kill people...."

Suggest that you improve your knowledge base, Crossbows are not illegal in Australia and there are any amount of firearms that are not designed to kill people,
the Zimmerstutzen is a prime example,
www.google.com.au/search?q=zimmerstutzen+rifles&rlz=1C1CAFB_enAU718AU718&oq=zimmerstutzen&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j0j69i57j0l3.19191j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

then there are paintball guns,
http://www.paintballshop.com/

Airsoft guns, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airsoft_gun
and any amount of conventional firearms which are designed for target shooting and/or hunting.

There are also guns and pistols that fire soft plastic balls and are designed for shooting at targets in the lounge room, particularly at 'baddies' on the TV, (these are designated as lethal weapons in Australia and must be registered etc.).

Sorry Is Mise, I forgot how much you like splitting hairs.

There is no way that Stephen Paddock would have been able to kill 58 people and injure 527 in such a short space of time with a nail gun or a spear gun or a nerf gun or a paintball gun or a gaming console accessory resembling a gun etc. etc.

But I guess since all those things are legal, we should also let everyone have assault rifles and stuff, because they're all the same thing really, right Is Mise? Barking...