“If an Australian citizen, who became a citizen of this country by reason of being born here, was to be ineligible to stand for Parliament because the law of a foreign country imposed foreign citizenship on them without their knowledge, due to their descent from a parent, grandparent, great-grandparent, then, plainly, millions of Australians could be disqualified from standing for parliament,” Mr Turnbull said.
“Based on advice from the Solicitor-General, the government is very confident the court will not find that the member for New England is to be disqualified from the Parliament.”

The PM speaking in Parliament.

What a mess!! Labor is calling for him to stand aside but I think they ought to keep quiet, they have a lot of members with Irish grandparents.

Issy, of course the chief cow cocky has to go. The Australian Constitution allows for no exceptions. This conservative mob with their double standards trying to hide it in the High Court, wont wash with the Australian public. The hide of Turnballs to try and preempt the findings of the High Court. The born to rule mob think they have rights which do not apply to their political opponents. Barnyard has the affront to call himself the Honorable Member, nothing honorable about him.
The two Greens did the honorable thing, while three conservative skunks continue to sit in the parliament without any legitimacy.

Is that a mushroom talking, Paul1405?

"What goes on in NSW is not an exercise in democracy — it's an exercise in puppetry," Tasmanian Senator Nick McKim said.

"The puppeteers are a small cabal of people who are not directly elected by the members, who believe in top-down command and control.

"They treat their members like mushrooms — they keep them in the dark and they feed them on bull[expletive]."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-14/greens-in-turmoil-as-senior-figures-trade-insults/8800484

Maybe too many Psilocybe cubensis, 'gold top', mushrooms as well?

Leoj, trying to be your inflammatory self again. it don't wash with me, but do your best.

Nothing more ridiculous than one so ignorant as you prattling on about a subject you have absolutely no knowledge of what so ever. But it has never stopped you in the past. Have you ever noticed how those incoherent puerile anti Green diatribes you constantly put up never invoke a decent response from anyone. Does that tell you something. I hardy read your posts, and as a previously known virus spreader I don't open your links, as they may be more than useless, they could be dangerous to ones computer health. The solution could be to ask nursy to up your medication.

Paul1405,

You were luckier than the other mushrooms of the NSW Greens. You always got the good oil on OLO and well in advance. You should be thankful.

Paul1405,

It's not me. The NSW'Eastern Bloc'Greens is a rogue branch. The criticisms have been coming from the Greens leadership and nationally for years.

It is well past the hour for the Greens. And with that any fading hope of the Greens ever shedding the 'protest rabble' image and becoming a normal, responsible political party.

Why keep cutting the ground out from under Richard Di Natale when he is the only and final hope of the Greens surviving?

Just on Barnaby;

In my view these senators should be excluded. The law is clear, and if you can't be trusted to get something so simple correct, surely you have failed the competency test for being a senator.
Posted by GrahamY, Thursday, 20 July 2017 8:51:41 PM

I think that this is due to an overdeveloped sense of entitlement, and the belief that their cause is so just that anyone that disagrees with them is heartless or bigoted, that any law that obstructs them must be wrong and removed, and the irony that they were happy to have these same laws applied to others eludes them.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 21 July 2017 7:39:05 AM

The high court in the past has made allowances for someone that has made a genuine effort to renounce citizenship but has failed. Neither of these 2 idiots made any effort whatsoever, and ignorance has never been accepted as a valid excuse.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Saturday, 22 July 2017 11:45:44 AM

Steele, reading what you have posted as to what other have said, I can only assume the conservative duo of Graham and Shadow will be along shortly to join the chorus singing the latest smash hit,'Goodbye Barney'!

"You (Paul 1405) always got the good oil on OLO and well in advance. You should be thankful.

What from your incoherent babble leoj, I don't think so. Will you be representing the extreme right of the One Nation Party at the next election? Your mob seem to have enough of their own problems, no need to focus on the Greens.

Oh for Gawd sake Paul1405 take a Bex and have a nice lie down.

What if the EU Commission decided that anyone with an EU citizen
parent or grandparent was an EU citizen our parliament would close
and could not reassemble because the constitution could not be amended !

Call me stupid or something but don't we as a nation have more to worry about than this nonsense! I understand it's a clear breach of the constitution, but surely don't we need to look into the real intent of that sitting member to determine whether or not there's some sort of constitutional mischief involved? Whether it's the Greens, Labour or the LNP, if at the time that particular member or senator, honestly believed they were legitimate Aussie citizens, surely that's sufficient? Running to the High Court every time we have such a scandal, is in my view, a waste of time.

The thing that I find the most amusing about this whole saga is that conservatives, who almost unwaveringly prefer a strictly formalist approach from the judiciary, are now hoping and praying for one heck of a lot of judicial activism from the High Court.

Priceless!

Why hasn't Barnaby Joyce gone by now? The arch hypocrite, Turnbull, couldn't contain his crowing about the dumb Greens, but he is quiet about the very dumb Joyce and his own senator, whose life is organised by his mummy.

There is no democracy in Australia. There are different rules for different people, and Prime Ministers are elected (actually chosen by the party, not the people) dictators, apparently answerable to the unelected, activist High Court, not the people of Australia.

What is the point of having a Constitution if it is not abided by?

AJ Philips,

Yes. But it would be the very rare politician who didn't object to black letter law applying in his/her case, excepting naturally enough where there was advantage.

Meanwhile some idiots are posturing with threats of armed conflict.

Exactly AJ why do you think I am going on about all this. When it suits the Conservatives they crow, the law is the law, hang them high. But when the boot is on the other foot they make all sorts of excuses with unjustified interpretation. They can't have it both ways.

Bazz, if the Penguins of Antarctica decree all Australian politicians are citizens of the South Pole from birth, then given the wording of our constitution and the conservative mantra of the law is the law, then all politicians have to resign. Have we discovered an unintended short coming in the Constitution.
Some on the forum were beside themselves with condemnation of the two Green Senators, but now they are not to be seen or heard.
Bazz, you are showing your age. You can't have a Bex and a lie down, unless you have a cuppa tea as well. In my Granny's philosophy the cuppa tea was most important.

At least ttbn has been consistent on this.

I believe any person who has allegiance to another form of Government, or political ideology, economic or military allegiance in another country must not stand as an elected member of Australia.

We currently have communists and sharia exponents representing communities which is not I believe in the intention of the founding fathers, and should be excluded.

Why did this problem not appear earlier ?

All Commonwealth countries, with the exception of the Irish Free State, had a single nationality status of British subject.

Useful explanation
http://guides.naa.gov.au/citizenship/chapter2/naturalisation.aspx

In 1948 the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting decided to make major changes in nationality laws throughout the Commonwealth.

Australian status for nationality or citizenship was created by the Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948.

Current act is the Australian Citizenship Act 2007 (Including amendments up to: Act No. 166, 2015).

http://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2016C00726

.

Dear Josephus,

«I believe any person who has allegiance to another form of Government, or political ideology, economic or military allegiance in another country must not stand as an elected member of Australia.»

In other words, you believe that the people of the land have no right to change the regime that was inflicted upon them.

I am not a huge fan of the Greens having been on the receiving end of some pretty unsavory tactics during an election campaign. However, compared to how the One Nation, Liberal and now National members who have been found to be in breach of the constitution have obfuscated and prevaricated, I can only acknowledge and respect the actions of both Ludlam and Waters in withdrawing their Senate positions. Made to look all the most classy because of the likes of Barnaby.

Yuyutsu,
We are talking about the Australian constitution; so if you feel our system of Government has been inflicted upon us; I'm sorry but obviously it might be time for you to find a society that suits your agenda. At least we can change our representatives, unlike some regimes.

Of course, all the usual Galahs are out trying to make a comparison with the two green idiots born overseas with BJ's obscure circumstances.

However, Joyce has done the honourable thing and referred his case to the high court to determine his status. If the high court rules that he was ineligible to be elected, a by election will be called, and Joyce now having relinquished any claims to NZ citizenship will probably stand against Tony Windsor and beat him again.

Shadow, the Galahs are going off in Canberra. With the so called Foreign Minister Bishop laughably calling the Barnyard nonsense a catalyst that will make it hard for the Australian Conservative Government to trust a NZ Labour Government. Claiming the NZ Labour Party played a role in trying to bring down the Turnbull Government.
NZ's Minister of Internal Affairs Peter Dunne (National Party) has confirmed it was Fairfax Media's investigation that led to the discovery of Barney's dual citizenship.
Is this bunch in Canberra so desperate to hang onto power that they are willing to risk Australia's long standing close relationship with New Zealand, over that fool Barnyard! Will they declare war? Laughable!

Its time for an election.

Paul,

You will get your election in 2 years. And it looks like the long knives are out for Diseased Rhiannon and her Eastern bloc.

I look forward to the PM referring the 5 Labor MPs that have refused to confirm their dual citizen status to the high court.

I cannot see how the High Court could NOT rule against Joyce. Section 44 is quite clear: you don't need to be a lawyer to understand it. Even the bit about doing everything you could have done to find out about your citizenship doesn't apply to Joyce. He did nothing, just like the others. If there is any justice and honesty at all in this country, he must go, as should the dual-citizen Coalition senator. I don't like the idea of a Labor government, but it is now clear that the Turnbull government has no right to be there for sound, clear constitutional reasons

Dear Shadow Minister,

Straight in with the Galah jibe I see. Right in there swinging from the get go.

Okay then let's get down to it.

What kind of duplicitous thinking permits you to compare Waters, born to two Australian parents who spent a short while in Canada where they gave birth to her, with a bloke whose father was a foreign national?

In that case why are we sending Australian born children off to other countries because their parents were born overseas but who ultimately failed to get citizenship here?

What has to happen in your brain to think his crime was in any way shape or form less than Waters'?

I said in another thread that the Green's had to go but so does Joyce. The thing is the departure of Ludlam and Waters has not caused a fresh by-election costing untold hundreds of thousands of dollars, Joyce's stupidity and hubris will. All taxpayers money.

Why are you defending this?

One could understand Waters and Ludlam throwing in the towel rather than front the High Court.

However Barnaby Joyce is prepared for his case to be judged by a court, to stand before it personally and be judged. No doubting his cojones.

Any chance of Ludlam's hair lodging an appeal?

ttbn,

Depending on what was discussed during the debates in the 1890s, regarding that provision of the Constitution, there's a small chance that the High Court could determine that what is currently happening is totally removed from what the Founding Fathers had in mind when they passed that provision.

When a literal reading of a provision creates a legal absurdity, judges will sometimes take a purposive approach in interpreting legislation, in the name of justice and fairness. The reasoning behind this is because parliament simply doesn't have the time to amend every ambiguity or loophole in the law.

That being said, the Constitution is generally interpreted far more strictly than all other Acts because of its importance and standing. If I had to wager one way or the other, I'd say Joyce is screwed.

Even if the law is an ass, the court has no option other than to apply the law, Barnyards and other conservatives ignorance is no defense. Possibly Barnyard will use the defense "Your Honour I am a member of the National Party, and you know what that means" The judge will reply "You poor ignorant sod, but guilty as charged!" The short comings of the Constitution were evident from the early days of Federation.

Shadow, are you now claiming Lee Rhiannon is a non citizen?

SR,

The single most important arbiter of citizenship is the country of birth, and for 2 Greens to plead ignorance of citizenship of their birthplace is idiocy. Whereas Joyce is a citizen by ancestry and an obscure NZ citizenship act defunct decades ago.

BJ has done the honourable thing and on the discovery of his dual citizenship has referred himself to the high court. In the interim, he is entitled to sit in Parliament, and having now renounced any possible NZ citizenship he can contest the by-election and thrash Tony Whinger again.

And now it is clear that Labor played an underhand part in this, MT should have no problem referring at least 3 labor MPs to the high court.

Shadow, the honorable thing for these conservative skunks to do, would be to abstain themselves from the Parliament until their legitimacy is established. At the moment there is a cloud over their eligibility to sit in the house, so they should remove themselves.

2 years you say. Remember a week is a long time in politics.

I think Barnaby's situation could be OK.
The court may argue that a country that makes a law that makes
a person in another country its citizen without their knowledge or
agreement is an invalid act.

It could be a very dangerous situation if a state of war came about
someone in the army could be charged with treason and executed if captured.

Dear Josephus,

Yes indeed, other regimes around the world are even worse, perhaps even all of them. Is this a serious excuse for the immorality of the Australian regime?

The Iranian constitution prevents the possibility of changes that remove the absolute power of Ayatollahs. Likewise, your earlier post, supports locking up the current arrangements and throwing the key to the ocean.

Suppose a larger number, even a majority of Iranians no longer want Islam: can they do anything? No, because their representatives would be prevented from elections by the Ayatollahs. What you suggested is a similar system for Australia.

Bazz, During WWII America locked up American citizens of Japanese origin. For no other reason than they looked Japanese and had Japanese ancestry, in some cases several generations previous.

What is important is we must leave no stone unturned in our righteous quest to sniff out these undesirable aliens who wish to pervert the Aussieness of our house of Law Making. These persons can be devious in the extreme, as demonstrated by the lengths Barney went to, to convince us he was a dinky-di Aussie jumbuck! I have to admit I was fooled, like most, when in fact he is nothing more than a Kiwi interloper, a kiwi in sheep's clothing no less. Bob (the mad) Katter is now suspect in my book!

What is needed is a tribunal of prominent true blue Aussie dingo's which can test all politicians, and aspiring politicians, for Aussieness, the High Court wont do, also suspect, they talk in Latin and use big words. May I suggest the following persons would be ideal candidates for such an auspicious committee, Ned Kelly, Sir Les Patterson, Dame Edna and Arthur Dunger, a true cross section of Australian society, others can be added later when found necessary, Dick Smith, Gerry Harvey, Cazaly etc etc . Our very own elder statesman, John Howard, could be called upon to write the questions. Having the experience of doing so for the Aussie test back when foreigners were trying to become Australian citizens. Johnny was wise to them, right on em' he was, only Australian should be allowed to apply for Aussie citizenship he said! A truer, bluer, there never was, he is still wearing that pair of faded green and gold tracky dacks he bought way back in 1972.

Paul,

There are 5 Labor MPs born overseas to countries that grant citizenship on birth that are refusing to confirm that they have renounced their dual citizenship. According to your logic, these 5 progressive skunks should abstain from all parliamentary activities until the high court determines their status.

Paul1405,

What jealous hatred could possibly cause you to smear as 'dingos', the prominent Australians such as "Dick Smith, Gerry Harvey, Cazaly etc etc"?

You have no idea. Just another misled 'Eastern Bloc' stirrer.

Shadow, absolutely, like parking fines, no matter if you nab 5 or 5,000 you just keep hiting em'.

I thought you believed upholding the law was sacrosanct? The Constitution is clear if you hold citizenship of another country at the time of your election, no if or buts, your out. The 2 Green senators did, and they resigned. These 3 unprincipled skunks fall into the same category but refuse to at least abstain from Parliament. The 5 from the Labor Party might be in the same boat, as could others.
I may not agree with the Constitution, and lampoon its ridiculousness in this instance. For me the 2 Greens should not have resigned but took their case to the High Court, now that seems to be the out for these others, but they chose a more honorable course of action.

How typical of 'Eastern Bloc' Greens such as Paul 2405 that they are always trying to tear down the Australians who contribute(d) to this great country.

Roy Cazaly's AFL career and later coaching encouraged many youth to take some pride in themselves and to strive for better. Dick Smith and Gerry Harvey provided employment opportunities.

I suppose that Dick Smith is especially in the sights of the Greens because he has drawn attention to Greens' political cynicism and hypocrisy for 'Open Door' immigration and no care about environmental sustainability, nor about protecting the assets and way of life for grandchildren. Labor PMs Bob Hawke and Paul Keating had 70,000 immigrants which was high at the time, but it is now 200,000.

Surprised you the whiney NSW Greens didn't get around to 'Twiggy' Forrest, who indisputably has done more for Australia's indigenous and for far longer than the hypocritical Greens,

http://www.news.com.au/national/politics/andrew-forrest-says-the-greens-are-the-party-for-paedophiles-for-not-supporting-the-cashless-debit-card/news-story/ea91e95122fd8bd030c169b7680cce01

Things certainly appear to be in a bit of a mess
and unfortunately political attacks
as exemplified by both Malcolm
Turnbull and Julie Bishop's recent over-the-top rants
only demean their own positions and smack of desperation.

If rules are going to be applied here they should be
applied to all. Barnaby Joyce should at least have had
enough class to step down until the High Court made its
decision. A bad example is being shown here.

However, perhaps a lesson will be learned from all this.
One can only hope. Something needs to be done to ensure
that this does not happen again.

Penny Wong should resign. She is accountable for the actions of her senior staff, chief of staff Marcus Ganley. She cannot escape by claiming that she was unaware.

"Penny Wong up to her neck in it

The Foreign Affairs [Minister] took aim at Senator Wong this morning after it was revealed her chief of staff Marcus Ganley had spoken to the New Zealand Labour MP whose questions to the NZ Parliament sparked the probe into Mr Joyce’s citizenship status.

“Today we find that Penny Wong was up to her neck in it,” Ms Bishop told Sky News.

“She orchestrated what New Zealand Labour themselves call wrong and unacceptable conduct — conduct that should never have happened..

“And this wrong and unacceptable that should never have happened was instigated by Penny Wong using a New Zealand member of Parliament to ask questions in the New Zealand Parliament was clearly designed to undermine the Deputy Prime Minister of Australia and undermine confidence in the Australian government.”

Ms Bishop said it “beggars belief” that Senator Wong had not know that her chief of staff was contacting a sitting NZ Labour MP."

This is a shocking breach of protocol and Joyce's rights. Particularly so where it impinges as it must on the case that is already set for hearing by Australia's High Court.

Foxy,

" Something needs to be done to ensure
that this does not happen again"

Something will be done; all future aspirins MsP will make sure of their status!!

And that, folks, is why you should never post a comment using your phone.

#Autocorrectfail

"The highest court in the land... is now being asked to determine whether stupidity or dereliction is an excuse under the Constitution..." (Simon Benson)

Dirty pool,

SMH, "Penny Wong's chief of staff sparked NZ Labour's questioning of Barnaby Joyce"

Penny Wong should resign.

New Zealand Interior Affairs Minister - who is a member
of the ruling conservative government (not Labour) has
confirmed it was questions by Fairfax journalists which
led to the outing of Mr Joyce. Mr Dunne slammed the
conspiracy claims as "so much utter nonsense." Australian
media inquiries were the instigators of the questions.

Labor dismissed the government's attack as an attempt to
distract from Mr Joyce's eligibility to remain in
Parliament.

Penny Wong has stated - "For the Turnbull government to
then turn this into a diplomatic incident to try to
distract attention from the failings of the Deputy
Prime Minister is both reckless and damaging."

It seems that Andrew Bolt totally agrees.
Read his column on the farce that Julie Bishop turned
her press conference into and the embarrassment that
she's causing Australia. A very revealing column by
Mr Bolt.

I dare say there will be more to come in the days ahead.
The government is hanging on by one seat - and if
they lose that? No wonder they're desperate. Their
current behaviour speaks volumes.

Even the dimmest-witted should now be aware of the seriously bad stuff that goes on behind the veil of trivialities like SSM, the legitimacy of Australia day, and Recognition.

Leoj,

I dislike the Labor Party intensely, and I loathe Wong. But, that's politics, and there are many other reasons why we would be better off without Wong; this is not one of them.

Would you not prefer Joyce to be uncovered rather than allowing him to continue on under false pretences?

ttbn,

Joyce will have his day in court. I will not be commenting while that is in train. Others had the same option and had they taken it, they too should have been accorded the politeness and right to gather and present their case without political and media speculation. Or as applied in this case, political interference.

It is relevant that the NZ politician involved has been counselled by his leader.

Wong should resign.

AJ,

"And that, folks, is why you should never post a comment using your phone.

#Autocorrectfail"

Aspirin politicians, pills, short for 'pillock'.

Dear Is Mise,

You might enjoy this:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/farce-julie-bishop-turns-barnabys-embarrassment-into-international-incident/news-story/1f2b8fed6230a787641a28e627ea851a

leoj,

You can comment as much as you like. Joyce will not 'be in court'. The government has asked the High Court to interpret Section 44, hoping that the activist judges will be able to find a new interpretation to say their (the government's) sorry arses. Legal people have already opined that it will not be possible.

ttbn,

Thanks. But I will wait on the High Court decision.

I just shake my head where some of them are concerned. Particularly in the Senate where there is time to get some interests and concentrate on them for the betterment of the country.

If anyone wants to go back over my posts on this subject I have always held the opinion that they should be judged as any ordinary person might and enjoy the same justice.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I acknowledge the tempered language thank you.

On your point about location of birth is correct, a person born here is regarded as a natural born Australian. If it is to a permanent resident or an Australian citizen, or if they live here for more than 10 years, then they are automatically deemed a citizen. But we are talking about something different, dual citizenship.

You would need to make the case that a person born to Australian parents while in another country would more likely need to validate their singular citizenship status than a person born here to an unnaturalised foreign national. I don't think it is sustainable.

Larrisa waters got pinged on a law that changed a week before she was born. She did not whinge and carry on but stepped straight up to the plate and resigned.

Ultimately Joyce has been deemed to have been a dual citizen at the time of the last election full stop. More than that all he had to do was go to the NZ government website to confirm his status.

http://www.news.com.au/national/politics/simple-new-zealand-citizenship-test-could-have-saved-barnaby-joyce/news-story/84aa3321f1e92a22eefb790ebcd755eb

He is about to cost the taxpayers a stack of money sorting this out and you seem to be giving him a free pass. Why?

SR,

Thanks for your restrained language too.

Just about every OECD country (and many others too) grant citizenship automatically on birth in the country with very few exceptions and exemptions. And even most superficial due diligence would have worked it out to the point where MW as a lawyer could be disbarred for signing a statutory document without checking. Whereas only very few grant citizenship to descendants without an application. (NZ is the only one I know of now)

For example, I have dual British Aus citizenship because my father who was born in the UK applied for it when I was 17. If he had not done so, I could only have gained citizenship after 18 if I resided in the UK for 3yrs.

Also if BJ had enquired to the NZ consulate as to his citizenship status without giving his lineage, the answer would have been in the negative, as he was not registered in any form in NZ.

To sum up, while LW's and SL's cases are non-existent BJ's depending on a liberal interpretation from the HC is weak but far from non-existent. And according to the law, he is entitled to continue to sit in parliament until his status is determined. If he loses there will be a by election which given the margin he won by last time is pretty much a shoo in. Noticeably the ones baying for him to stand down are the same people that insisted that it was OK for Thomson to remain in Parliament.

Given the previous don't ask don't tell nature of the Parliament up to now, the 5 Labor MPs whose dual citizenships are questionable are not obliged to reveal proof. However, MT is perfectly entitled to refer them to the high court.

Shadow, as one who calls for Barney to stand down I never thought it "OK for Thomson to remain in Parliament". The bloke was an utter grub, a known fact from the outset. The bloke you wanted gone was Slippery Pete.
Turnball's should refer the 5 Labor members to the High Court. He should do the same with any other MP's he has doubts about, including his own.

Cory Bernadi has called on Turnbull to suspend parliament until the dodgy matter of Joyce's citizenship has been cleared up. Not likely to happen, but it should happen.

To the end of June 2017 the Senate had only sat 25 days. With the 'gay this' and 'gay that' and other 'Progressive' priorities that waste Parliament's time, how many productive hours in that 25?

The problem for Senators is that their absence might be noticed and in a positive way. Many are tiresome nags who have never had an original idea and are experts on their own entitlements.

What about 2 + 2 yrs for Senators and having served two lots of two, that's it, give someone else a go. Or simply get rid of the Senate. While they are at it, ease out the ABC or SBS. Expensive redundancy that constantly finds meddling in politics a time-filling pastime.

Paul,

Then you wouldn't mind Dinner Tally being referred to the high court as well? Would he then "courageously" resign?

BJ has committed no crime, and he has followed the law to the letter and referred himself to the high court precisely to avoid the considerable expense of a by election which he stands a superb chance of winning again. As per legal precedent until his status is confirmed he is entitled to all the privileges and duties as an MP.

Secondly, I don't recall you ever calling for Thomson to resign. If you go back in the records, I was calling for years for Thomson to be ousted because he was blatantly a crook. I was flogging Juliar for her disgraceful behaviour in firing her speaker to appoint Slipper who had just been deselected by the libs for rorting entitlements, then for giving a rabidly hypocritical speech on misogyny while defending probably the worst case of misogyny probably in the Parliament's history by Slipper.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Entitled to do something vs the honourable thing are two very different beasts and both are very much in evidence here.

The two Greens members did not force the ordinary tax payer to pay for a High Court decision, they accepted that their legitimacy as Senators had enough doubt that they took the honourable path. There are some who characterise their stance as 'not willing to face the court' but this is nonsense. And quite frankly I don't think raising Thompson was really worth it. He was in a league of his own.

Years ago I made a promise to myself never to put a Green first on a voting paper and I intend to stick to that undertaking. However given how Ludlam and Waters have conducted themselves in comparison to both the Nationals and One Nation on this issue I am certainly open to placing them higher than I might have otherwise.

"you just can't be a member of parliament and have dual citizen, it's black and white and the outcome is black and white and that's just the way it is"

Barnaby Joyce.

He and Fiona Nash need to heed these words and act appropriately.

Oh dear, we have another one, Fiona Nash, Barney's 2IC, she's a Pom, its an epidemic. Is the honorable member going to resign, or even step aside? No, she is simply going to ignore it, and say tut tut, S#$^t happens! Another one attempting to hide in the High Court.

And to think some on here claimed the "smart parties" vetted all potential candidates for any possible irregularities.

The words of Shadow Minister "The requirement not to have the citizenship of another country is well known and is made clear to prospective MPs." Referred to Scott Ludlum as Scott Numbnuts. Shadow will you now refer to Bonkers Barney and Fiona Fool etc. When it only concerned the Greens, the forums 'Usual Suspects' were wetting their pants with glee, Just read some of the over the top comments by SM and Leoj on the subject.

Shadow, what Turnball's should do, is refer his inept crappy government to the voters for a ruling, Don't want to do that, do we.

My friend, as I have asked before, how do you manage to get so much so wrong? Like The Bolt fiasco, where you claimed an arrest was imminent! That was weeks ago, and still no arrest.

SR,

Actually, the resignation of the two Greens does require a High Court decision to determine their succession, and I don't believe that either of these idiots would have resigned if they stood a snowball's chance in hell in the high court. And if you are worried about the costs of a High court decision, then you should applaud BJ's effort to avoid the vastly higher cost of a by election.

Also if you mean by "honour" the Greens' vapid gestures to virtue signal, then LW and SL have it spades. If this is what impresses you, then there is nothing that I can add.

Shadow, what are you suggesting, with elections so expensive we should leave Money Bags Malcolm, The Mad Monk, Barnyard and all their foreign imports in charge of the asylum? I DON'T THINK SO!

Dear Paul,

I hear the Nationals have applied to change the party name, from hence forth they would like to be known as the 'Dual Nationals'.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I have no problem with judging the Green senators as idiots, that is your right. What you don't get to do is not applying the same assessment to the two Nationals and not expect to be picked up on it.

Given who has been caught up there is a reasonable indication that this is more an issue for the minor parties like the Greens, the Nationals and One Nation. The time and resources that go into vetting candidates must be considerable and the larger the party machine the more likely it is to be thorough.

I am therefore of the mind to cut them some slack for that reason. We need this fixed and I would like to see the role of initially vetting prospective candidates given to the AEC with appropriate funding. Our constitution should not be treating minor parties unfairly.

Perhaps you might like to think about solutions rather than base partisan politics.

"vetting prospective candidates given to the AEC with appropriate funding"

From that bucket of tax money that never runs out?

What about Joe Public? Would they be excused from completing government forms too?

Aspiring politicians get enormous help already and gratis.

Prospective candidates for office should vet themselves, it ain't hard!

There is a simple choice, keep dual citizenship or lessen one's ambitions and renounce it and run for public office.

Steele, the Dual-Nationals like to get into bed with the Muti Nationals. Then there is the Wicked Witch of the North, she is a National Disgrace, along with her side kick who is a National Disaster. The Nationals have it.

Gee, leoj gone quite on this since your boy from Multi Nation, Muddled Up Malcolm Roberts got pinged. Where are those calls for restitution you screamed when it was a couple of Greens involved. You demanded pay back of years of wages from Scott Ludlum and Larissa Waters, What do you have to say now?

SR,

You seem to be struggling with the concept of probability and expectation. Here's a brief tutorial:

I was not surprised that the sun rose this morning because the probability was very high. However, I would be surprised if I won my workplace lottery, as the odds are > 100:1. I would be stupid to be surprised at the sun rising or planning my future lifestyle on a lottery ticket.

Similarly, being born overseas and not expecting foreign citizenship is wildly unrealistic, whereas being born in Aus and having dual citizenship without it being claimed is far less likely.

Given the past tendency in Parliament not to call for proof of Aus only citizenship the expectation would be that dual citizens would never be called to account, I would hazard that the due diligence tests on all sides were at best perfunctory.

As for the two Green MPs that were born in countries that grant citizenship at birth, calling them idiots is the lesser of what I believe which is that they are outright liars who never expected to be called to account.

Not bad Shadow, coming from one who supports a party of habitual lairs.
BTW, how are you going with that Bolt case, a case of public mischief you seen fit to defend. According to you "an arrest is imminent!" You get it so wrong, so often.

Paul,

This is from the greens party that is too high to recognise reality?

With the High Court not giving in to government pressure for a "quick fix" for its "boys", and unwilling to hear the citizenship fiasco until October, its high time the accused stepped down from parliament. Should Joyce and Nash in particular be found guilty then any ministerial decisions made by the pair since being appointed can be challenged in court.

Well, well, well, the "mum story", that mum done it, and put about by Senator Matt Caniver from the Nationals is now an admitted lie, seems dear old Matt has fessed up that he's been an Italian citizen since the age of 2. Mums off the hook, but what about Caniver?

And in another development Pommy Bob Roberts from the wacko One Nation mob, has had a rethink, and now admits he actually put in his renunciation of his Britishness AFTER his election to parliament. Blamed the tardiness of some Pommy civil servant for the delay, when it was his mistake all along.

All I can say is goodbye Bob, goodbye Matt, goodbye Barney and goodbye whats her name.

Where are the forums 'Usual Suspects' when you need em' to comment. Shadow? Leoj? etc etc.

Paul,

As should Shorten and the 6 other labor MPs that can't prove that they are not dual citizens.

Yes, it certainly looks like Canavan and the nutcase Roberts are as good as gone.

While the High Court found, in Sykes v Cleary, that a strict, literal interpretation of s 44(i) would be absurd (since foreign countries could then mess with out Parliament by giving citizenship to people by decent alone), it was also established that reasonable steps must be taken to ensure that citizenship with another country is renounced.

Clearly this hasn't been the case with Canavan and Roberts.

Shadow; a quote from the Coalitions answer to Arnold Schwarzenegger, a like minded politician with the same German accent, Mathias Cormann "I do not think Bill is a duel citizen." If Mathias don't think so, who are we to question, is he wrong?

Shadow, how many Labor politicians are getting booted up to the High Court by Money Bags Malcolm for judgement? NONE. You are clutching at straws on this one. as usual. How are you going with the Bolt case, remember an arrest is imminent, your words not mine! The only ones who are going to see the insides of the calaboose on this, are your boys and girls. The closest Barney and co are ever going to get to the greens, is in prison greens.

Paul,

Lying again? Imminent was your word not mine.

The coalition MPs came forward of their own volition, they could easily said nothing as Shortarse is.

I still say that MT should refer them to the high court as well.

Dear Shadow Minister,

You wrote;

“This is from the greens party that is too high to recognise reality?”

Bit rich don't you think?

At least they are not too drunk to turn up to vote on important legislation.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-25/abbott-too-drunk-to-vote-turnbull-responds/8841902

Steele, as it applies to workers, if you're found drunk on the job, you get the sack. Maybe Abbott could do the honorable thing and resign. Sorrrrrrry, I said honorable thing, and Abbott in the same breath, please forgive me.
leoj is big on applying the same rules to (Green) parliamentarians as they apply to the ordinary works. He'll be along soon demanding Abbott's head as well. As if!

Barnyard Barney is running second in the Kiwi vote for New Zealander of the year.

SR,

So TA overslept one morning 8 years ago and that's the best you've got? There are plenty of stories about MPs turning up drunk, so much so that Labor was considering breath testing its MPs at one point.

Nothing about Shanghai Sam soliciting bribes from China and still being in cabinet, or Syph Hansen Young being goofed enough to blame the next ISIS attack on PH?

Dear Shadow Minister,

You may think it okay to turn up to work inebriated, I don't. Especially when you are doing it on the tax payer's dime.

But our Tony couldn't even manage that. He was pissed to the point of being completely comatose, unable to be roused.

Added to the fact that attending parliament is hardly a year round job. In fact it involves, on average, about 60 days of attendance, in other words the equivalent of 12 normal weeks. If you can't manage to remain sober for that then you should expect censure.

I also found it interesting, but perhaps not unsurprising, that the sanctimonious prat Kevin Andrews was in the cohort.

SR,

I don't believe people should turn up to work inebriated, and that didn't happen. TA overslept and missed one vote that wouldn't have made a difference in a long day.

At the roughly the same time, Shorten was ripping $ms from clean event employees for a union backhander, and Thomson was spending union dues on prostitutes.