Dear Paul,

Ah, but don't forget the Devil is
a fallen angel. (smiley face).

Let's not get too carried away. The majority of Australians – 60% according to the census – do still call themselves Christians. Another 10%, roughly, adhere other religions. So, it is drawing a very long bow indeed to suggest that we are a nation of “non-believers”, when at least 70% believe in something.

Paul makes an interesting comment that 30% of Australians not necessarily atheists. Many people don't call themselves Christians because they don't attend churches, but that doesn't mean that they are not living a Christian way of life, which is far more important than labelling. I would hazard a guess that 80% or white Westerners are living Christian-influenced lives because Christianity is the basis for living their lives. Democracy, the rule of law and all our values didn't come from thin air.

For instance, I believe in Christianity, but I haven't been in a church to worship for nearly 60 years, and I don't like organised religion or its priests very much at all. I always put 'Christian' on the census paper.

For all the fools 'celebrating' what they think is a good sign (fewer Christians … perhaps; who: knows what people are thinking when they fill in a census), just think about this: at the moment, we live in a secular country where the private religion of most people is still Christian. There is no compulsion to have a religion, you can believe or not as you wish. But, try to imagine what it will be like when everyone has given up Christianity, and Islam is increasing. You won't be getting too many choices about what you are or what you think then. Islam thrives in a vacuum, which is what the disappearance of the religion you hate will provide. The first to go will be the atheists, because Islam despises atheists much more than it does Christians. Christians and others will be given the opportunity to convert or die. But, atheists, your gooses are well and truly cooked.

You’re a glass-half-empty kinda gal, aren’t you Big Nana?

<<It's not only Christians who believe in a higher power. All religions do.
Which, based on census figures means that 70% of Australians still believe in some form of religion.>>

My listed reasons as to why the figure is almost certainly smaller than that aside, I don’t think anyone here has missed that at all. The point is that the number of those professing a religious belief has dropped quite dramatically.

<<... perhaps it would be interesting to see a comparison between the reduced number of people who have some form of faith and the increased numbers of people with mental health disorders and addiction problems.>>

There is inevitably a correlation, given the increase in mental health issues (or increased awareness of them, at least). There is also a correlation between murder rates and ice cream sales. But correlation does not imply causation. Do you know what else shares a reliable (inverse) correlation with religiosity? Most measures of societal health and education:

http://moses.creighton.edu/jrs/2005/2005-11.pdf
http://tyisnotahero.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/kpb5a1.png
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdtwTeBPYQA

<<Regardless of whether that faith in a higher power is based on a truth, no one can ever deny that religion has provided a form of support for people in crisis or traumatic situations,or even just to help them through a difficult time.>>

Sure, so do drugs and alcohol, but that doesn’t mean they're healthy or ideal.

<<Didn't religion used to be known as " opium for the masses?">>

Yes. Why? Has this been discredit now, or something?

<<Quite frankly, if it's a choice between drugs and religion I know what I would prefer.>>

This is a False Dilemma fallacy.

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/94/False-Dilemma

Dear Nathan,

First, I protest the naming of all people who happen to live in this continent as "nation". This census was forced upon us all regardless of our affiliation with such foolish groupings of people.

I did not answer that question, primarily because I don't want to volunteer information to the government of your "nation" and I could afford to not answer it because I would not have to pay ongoing hefty fines like I would for the other questions.

The other reason I did not answer this question, was that if I were to answer correctly, "Hindu", then your government would give tainted stolen money to Hindu temples and organisations to corrupt them - unfortunately it already does so, but I didn't want it to give even more "on my behalf".

Finally, belief [in deities] is something quite different from religion. There could perhaps be some correlation since believing in deities can be used as a religious technique, but people who do not use this particular technique can be quite as religious as others who do, if not more. Similarly, belonging to and identifying with organisations that call themselves "religious" is no guarantee at all for actually being religious.

ttbn,

They didn’t come from Christianity either.

<<Democracy, the rule of law and all our values didn't come from thin air.>>

They came from ancient Greece. Christianity was later interpreted in a way such that the two could be justified (e.g. Locke). At best, Christianity proved not to be too much of a hindrance, but there is plenty in the Goat-Herder's Guide to the Galaxy to argue against democracy and the rule of law, too.

<<… I believe in Christianity, but I haven't been in a church to worship for nearly 60 years, and I don't like organised religion or its priests very much at all. I always put 'Christian' on the census paper.>>

But you used to call yourself an atheist (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=3878#21132). So, was I right after all? Have you since found Jesus?

If not, then you are one of those to whom I referred when I listed reasons as to why the number of non-believers is a lot higher than what the statistics suggest.

<<For all the fools 'celebrating' what they think is a good sign … just think about this … try to imagine what it will be like when everyone has given up Christianity, and Islam is increasing. You won't be getting too many choices about what you are or what you think then. Islam thrives in a vacuum …>>

Yeah, this was the argument from the far-Right with regards to putting ‘No religion’ on the census form. The problem with your assumption here is that 'no faith' does not mean 'indifferent'. To claim otherwise is a non sequitur.

Is this the only reason you've accepted Jesus into your heart? That would have to be one of the worst reasons I've ever heard. You could have at least hit rock bottom, or something like that.

<<But, atheists, your gooses are well and truly cooked.>>

This falsely assumes (among many other things) that the number of Muslims won’t decline. It is declining (albeit at a slower rate). Young Muslims are abandoning religion in droves.

Not really, this country is just having its 'communist moment' to see if works as badly as it has in russia, east europe, cuba and venezuela.

But ultimately, christianity is always the same, from byzantium to western europe...it arrives, creates enormous wealth and happiness, but also, producers a slothful and lethargic population that loses touch with itself over time.