Are we, Josephus?

<<We are talking about Australia, it was established by an English Culture and laws, …>>

I’m pretty sure mhaze was talking about Western civilization:

“The issue is whether the majority continue to follow the Christian values that made the West what is is (or was).” (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=7832#241896)

<<England was based on Christian culture and values at the time of settlement.>>

Oh, so, it’s just at the time of settlement now, is it?

Now THIS is what they call fallaciously "Moving the goalposts".

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/129/Moving-the-Goalposts

(Are you reading this, mhaze?)

Okay, so in what ways was England based on “Christian culture and values", and how exactly was Christian culture necessary for these values?

Having a law degree, I’m aware of a couple of ways in which the former is at least true, but, you see, not only is there enough in the Bible to contradict those interpretations, but often when I ask people making such claims to get specific, I get this tap dance that mhaze is currently engaging in.

Furthermore, and most importantly in my view, is the fact that (despite the implications) no-one ever seems able to explain how it was Christianity, specifically, that was required for the rise of Western civilization. I have often challenged people to come up with a benefit, which was derived from Christianity (however indirectly), that could not have possibly been achieved though secular means, and (unsurprisingly) no-one ever seems to be able to list anything.

There is this assumption that Christianity, specifically, was required; and there are two apparent motivations for such a claim:

1. That Christianity is, therefore, true (personally, this was my motivation as a Christian), or;
2. For nationalistic purposes, in order to make us appear more superior to, or symbolically separate us further from, those evil Muslims.

Both reasons are fallacious.

<<The Greeks did not establish Australian laws and culture as you claim of our culture.>>

At no point did I claim that. Read what I said again.

You have fallaciously limited what has been discussed to Australia in order to discredit what I have said.

' yep I am sure Moonshine you luv the secular system that now teaches if you are born with a penis you can be a girl if you wake up feeling that way. I think I would rather be taught of the origins of the Arab race than the foul nonsense justified by the idiotic irrational big bang fantasy. Whatever it is that damaged your ability to be rational I doubt it was the Scriptures.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 29 June 2017 3:14:52 PM

Now how on earth did you get that nonsense from my believing the bible to be a load of rubbish!

Believing fairy tale nonsense to be fact is what I would call irrational...

Penis's and big bangs? good grief man!

If one could really tap into the beliefs of those that think they are non believers, you would find many are consulting clairvoyance, and star signs and fortune tellers for direction in their life. They are believers in the interpretations of those that think they have special guru powers. Among my many unsolicited messages in my inbox each day there are those that want to tell my future, so they must be popular sources of belief.

I believe the Universe is rationally created and can be understood, and the human mind has been created with the capacity to create and understand the Universe, from what exists. We are made in the image of the mind behind the Creation.

I’m sure you would, Josephus.

<<If one could really tap into the beliefs of those that think they are non believers, you would find many are consulting clairvoyance, and star signs and fortune tellers for direction in their life.>>

Atheism isn’t an inoculation against stupidity. It’s merely a position on a single issue, which is why your continual attempts to portray communism as the inevitable result of atheism are so absurd.

<<Among my many unsolicited messages in my inbox each day there are those that want to tell my future, so they must be popular sources of belief.>>

Or you’ve been subscribing to dubious websites. I’ve never seen spam like that.

<<I believe the Universe is rationally created and can be understood …>>

So do I. Except for the “created” part. I see no evidence for that.