Part of my post, was in relation to many wanting to find out facts. In fact a lot of facts that many want. A lot of time is consumed, and can achieve nothing.

At present I have a lot of leaves which have covered the front yard of my small house this year from an old Oak tree which is about 100 years old. In reality I don't care how the whole process works. It is something that works out naturally and by itself.

But for many, there is a deep desire to want to constantly know more or try and prove something. It could be about climate change, scientific and medical research (which many want to lead to an outcome), improved technology and other advancements in general.

For myself a focus away from this movement can be healthier, whether it be personal rest, walking and exercise, laying on the lawn in a park, swimming or times when I make my own bread at home. These can be an enthralling experience, and I am not always seeking facts, I am simplistically looking at the ability to live, and the enjoyment that comes from that.

I am not here to question religion, as this can also be a passive form of activity for many, but I am concerned many Australians may be moving towards materialism and wanting more, at the expense of a simple and more holistic lifestyle.

NathanJ,

You have presented a false dichotomy. Discovery and personal pleasure are not mutually exclusive. Some people derive pleasure from discovery, and it is these people whom we can thank for all the medical and technological advances that we benefit from. You even mention this in your third paragraph:

<<But for many, there is a deep desire to want to constantly know more or try and prove something.>>

Yet, here, you assume that such a drive is unhealthy. Speaking from personal experience, my drive to learn more has been immensely beneficial and satisfying. When I was deeply religious, I did and said many stupid things (some of which I still pay the price for even today) because I was only interested in what made me feel comfortable, and I see many others make the same mistakes.

The argument that religion brings comfort to many is overly simplistic and ignores the damage that believing in nonsense could be doing to the individual (and likely is, to at least some extent). The more we perpetuate this over-simplification, the less likely we are to find real solutions.

<<For myself a focus away from this movement can be healthier, …>>

Yes, with the key words there being “for myself”.

<<… I am concerned many Australians may be moving towards materialism and wanting more, at the expense of a simple and more holistic lifestyle.>>

How is a lack of religious belief indicative of this? What if a lack of religious belief is merely a result of higher levels of education? This also somewhat contradicts Progressive Pat’s nonsense claim regarding and Christianity and wealth.

What if some don’t want a simple lifestyle? What if some people care about having their beliefs align as closely as possible with reality? I know I do. Personally, I prefer uncomfortable truths to reassuring lies. Despite the discomfort reality may bring, I think I’m happier overall accepting it for what it is, and I don’t think that’s a co-incidence. I don't just say this in the context of religion, either.

I think you’re worried about nothing.

" I want to be governed by clear-headed men and women who use logic and intelligence to approach problems, not weak-minded individuals whose thoughts are influenced by the self-interested clergy."

Right on. I've often opined that the world would have been a much better place if it wasn't for those weak-minded leaders of the Christian faith. You know, people like Rudd, Beazley, Blair, Clinton, Obama.

" I bought the gift, a book on 'The Universe' from big bang to today."

Should be an interesting read. I wonder if it explained what happened before the big bang and what caused that event. Quite the mystery. Perhaps the universe just said "Let there be light".

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The issue isn't whether the masses profess to or follow the Christian faith. The issue is whether the majority continue to follow the Christian values that made the West what is is (or was). Its possible to conceive (just) of a society with little adherence to the church but strong adherence to Christian values and so long as that holds we and our form of civilisation remains viable. Otherwise we'll be living in interesting times...and we all know what the Chinese say about interesting times.

" but I am concerned many Australians may be moving towards materialism and wanting more, at the expense of a simple and more holistic lifestyle."

I fear NathanJ that that horse has long since bolted and is already in the next county.

NathanJ,

I take you as inferring transcendence, especially as in going beyond reliance on material things for one's sense of worth and of being. Gaze at the Oak and feel a sense of awe. Start first with compassion and kindness towards others I believe. But that must be in the doing.

Be of real, practical, reliable and sustained service to your own community is where it is all at, and possible.

Who cares from whence the motivation springs as long as the good is there and being done? Or that some choose religion to tie it together and to find a community of like-minded souls to support them? We need our social interaction. Particularly where people grow older and children have their own family to care for.

I see no valid reason to constantly chide people for their religious beliefs as some do. Different folks need different strokes and where they are not causing harm to others and very likely being good citizens, who should be nagging at them?

Oh, you’re going to hate me for this, mhaze.

<< I've often opined that the world would have been a much better place if it wasn't for those weak-minded leaders of the Christian faith. You know, people like Rudd, Beazley, Blair, Clinton, Obama.>>

That’s the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy, as you have interpreted a pattern where one does not exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_sharpshooter_fallacy

Forgetting for a moment that you may actually be wrong about some of those leaders (and likely are given that your opinion appears to be based solely on your politics), what about all the Christian leaders who were strong? There are plenty Christian right-wing leaders who I’m sure you would consider to be strong, yet you have ignored these to take an off-topic swipe at leaders who you consider to be on the ‘wrong’ side of the political spectrum.

<<I wonder if it explained what happened before the big bang and what caused that event. Quite the mystery.>>

Why would it if it’s a mystery? You’re not fallaciously appealing to a god of the gaps now, are you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps

<<Perhaps the universe just said "Let there be light".>>

Or perhaps it was Russell’s Teapot?

<< The issue is whether the majority continue to follow the Christian values that made the West what is is (or was).>>

To which values do you refer, and how did they do that?

I’m sure you’re not referring to the values that Christianity begrudgingly adopted after it was dragged kicking and screaming out of the Dark Ages, after all.

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Well said, leoj.

<<I see no valid reason to constantly chide people for their religious beliefs as some do. Different folks need different strokes and where they are not causing harm to others and very likely being good citizens, who should be nagging at them?>>

No-one should be. But I don't see too many atheists going around door-knocking or approaching theists and asking if they still believe in Jesus. Publicly stated claims, however, are fair game. Furthermore, no idea should be beyond scrutiny or protected from criticism.

"..but I am concerned many Australians may be moving towards materialism and wanting more, at the expense of a simple and more holistic lifestyle".

You got that right, Nathan; and those people need to start changing their attitudes and doing without some of the materials things. They won't have the choice for much longer. They are living in a fool's paradise.