Hi Ttbn,

Yes, I think you're right:

"What we all should be doing, Left and Right, is defending our culture and values against all comers, and not fighting among ourselves. We don't have much time left."

For the life of me, I can't understand why the 'Left' defends Islamist terrorism. Do they think that, since it's anti-American, and anything American is bad, 'therefore' (in that Manichaean way that there is only one right and one wrong, black and white and nothing in between, therefore anything 'not wrong' must be right) therefore Islamist fascism must be good.

They don't seem to grasp, just as small children can't, that there are infinite ways of being 'bad', some much worse than others, and not too many ways of being 'good'. Life is surely a search for knowledge, for the truth, for evidence one way or the other, for a particular political position, and so we have to always be searching.

Sometimes, in that search, we come up with unpleasant, or very complex truths, some surprising, some very unsettling, but we have always to run with the truth, as we find it. As you say,

"What we all should be doing, Left and Right, is defending our culture and values against all comers, and not fighting among ourselves. We don't have much time left."

Best wishes,

Joe

Joe,

If you have any doubts about what it means to be associated with the Left these days, read Bolt's blog this morning to see what some Guardian readers think of the assault.

I tried to include some examples of the comments, but I got tired of trying to edit out the profanities that OLO won't accept. Needless to say, all the posters were very pleased to see Bolt being set upon, he deserved worse etc. etc., and some of them didn't condone violence, but made an exception in Bolt's case.

These people are real crazies. I don't think that 'Left' properly describes them any more. I can't believe that the traditional left i.e. Labor, would subscribe to such hatred and vicious thought.

Dear ttbn,

The point that I was trying to make was that there
are violent people on both sides of the fence so
to speak and that labelling just the one group
as the "Left" as always being violent was not
correct according to the history of violence in this
country. I was not talking about Islamists. Simply
about the "Left" and "Right" labelling of people and
groups. As I think that is wrong. Most people I know
belong to neither group but are somewhere in the
middle. They are quite liberal on some issue but
quite conservative on others. The labels of "Left"
and "Right" seem so yesterday.

Joe (Loudmouth),

Your subtle digs provoked the reaction that it did
from me. I found your rhetoric to be just what I
described. If you don't like the opinion I am
beginning to form about you - you can always improve.

Cheers.

Dearest Foxy,

As some old Greek said, "Know thyself". Of course, we all should, and never stop trying. Give it a go :)

As Ttbn wrote, most appropriately, "What we all should be doing, Left and Right, is defending our culture and values against all comers, and not fighting among ourselves. We don't have much time left."

From your last remarks, I assume that you might agree with Ttbn whole-heartedly ? That it is violence that we should be opposing, no matter where it comes from ? And that, as it happens, the last dozen or twenty, people killed by political violence in Australia (or Australians overseas) have been killed by Islamist terrorists, here and overseas ? Is that what you are suggesting ? That such fascist and Islamist atrocities have to be opposed ?

I'm sure that both Ttbn and I would agree with you. The question is: why are they doing it ? Why are there so many, and is Islam at the root of those atrocities ? Or at least a strict interpretation of its teachings ? That instructions for such fascist atrocities can be found, with little trouble, in the Koran, the unchanging word, word for word, of Allah ? Never to be changed, criticised or - worst of all - denied ?

i.e. Is Islam the problem ?

If so, then we ARE in trouble. Don't you agree ?

Can Islam be somehow reformed and revised ? Can the vicious bits be excised ? Whose job would that be, if not the imams ?

Love,

Joe

It was said by some spinmeister that the real measure of successful spin is to be able to have the victim him/herself seen as responsible for, or at the very least a contributor, to the harm that was done to her/him.

OLO has some rather gifted amateur spinmeisters. That is if they are not hired tools of astroturfing political and other lobbyists. And speaking of the last mentioned, there are many professionals and NGOs who suck hundreds of millions of dollars from the trough of taxpayers' money every year. What is a few dollars for some hack to sit on sites?

Some have been in the business of exploiting victimhood for years. And multiculturalism has provided endless opportunities for the quick-witted to double-dip from the public trough by weasel themselves too into seats on the victimhood gravy train. Then there is the retinue of commentator and 'journalist' (not a journalist's derriere) flogs who judge and scold the Australian public for recently invented 'wrongs'. Humiliation TV, loved by the dumbed-down.

Back to OLO's talented amateur try-hard spinmeisters, it took no time at all for the usual suspects to cast doubt about the Bolt attack - that was recorded after all, on videotape. So the evidence was clear enough. Then, even if it did occur and there was still doubt they explained, it could have been 'Chaser' or uni students. - Which would have done two things: firstly, direct attention away from the violent leftists (who still would claim credit anyhow, oddly enough); and secondly, by trivialising the offence there arose the implication that Bolt 'over-reacted' and was violent himself and couldn't take a 'joke'.

OLO's amateur spinmeisters moved on to apply the always successful tactics of ad hominem and various red herrings, including the perennial favourite, tu quoque. The formula is played out on so many threads (and for years?).

However there was an attack and hopefully the police and eventually a court will catch up with the thugs. So, go hard, spinmeisters, your work is ahead of you.

"Why I’ve finally given up on the left"
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/09/why-ive-finally-given-up-on-the-left/

Hi Leoj,

That URL, referring to an article by Nick Cohen, should be a must-read for anybody who still thinks they are on the left. Perhaps they will join him in declaring

"So, for what it is worth, this is my resignation letter from the left. I have no idea who I should send it to or if there are forms to fill in. But I do know this: like so many before me, I can claim constructive dismissal."

It's incredibly difficult to give up lifelong allegiances. It's taken me nearly seventy years, painfully, slowly, bit by bit, plank by plank :(

Thanks, Leoj.

Joe