The following link tells us that it is:

http://fortune.com/2017/05/19/donald-trump-impeach-meaning-definition-resigns/

We're told that "The expectations were that Trump would be
a quick study, and that rookie mistakes would give way to
competent Presidential leadership."

We're also told that "If Trump continues on his current
trajectory and fails to deliver on some of his promises
impeachment may become a serious option. Republicans in
Congress might conclude that they would be better off in
the 2020 elections trying to re-elect Mike Pence than
President Donald Trump".

To me that all seems rather iffy. (Maybe, coulda, woulda,
shoulda).

There's heaps of talk on impeachment and the current President
in the US. Personally I don't believe that it will
happen. Republicans have control of both houses and I really
don't feel that they would impeach a sitting President.
But I could be wrong. There's quite a few investigations
going on about the man's dealings with the Russians.
Who knows what these investigations will uncover (if
anything).

What do others think - can this President be impeached?
And more to the point - Will he be impeached?

"We are told that".

We are are told lots of things by people we don't know from a bar of soap, and most of it turns out to be shite. Trump will not be, cannot be, impeached for anything he has done so far. All the noise is coming from out of control media and the shrill Left, who will never accept the loss of office.

Foxy,

You and leftists, some of whom apparently went to the US to interfere in the Presidential election, would have had Donald Trump impeached even before he was elected.

Yet where Hilary Clinton was concerned, she was forever blameless, any criticism of her performance, no matter how mild, was wrong, unfair and misogyny of course. You proved all of that by endless flattering and self-justifying quotes from Hilary Clinton's own book.

Maybe Donald Trump should write a book. Or shouldn't anyone but a Democrat become President?

What is the point of your post?

leoj,

I did admire Hilary Clinton once.

However, you should also remember that I was not
against Donald Trump being elected as President and
I did make it quite clear why Hilary lost the
election and why Trump won. My point of this
discussion is as the title states - "Is political
incompetence an impeachable offence?" I thought
because Trump's recent actions especially the sacking
of his FBI Director last week - James Comey has
raised so many questions - the topic would make for
an interesting discussion on a forum that deals with
political and social debate.

What is your point in consistently questioning my
motives?

Dear ttbn,

People from many sides of politics are beginning to
question the actions of President Trump. From Congressmen,
to professionals within the legal system, are questioning
the actions of the US President. It shall be interesting
to see what happens next.

Foxy, "I was not against Donald Trump being elected as President.."

Not everyone is attuned to your humour then.

If political incompetence were an impeachable offence, Trump would've been impeached already,

As it is, they'll have to find evidence of corruption rather than mere incompetence. So he'll probably remain president a few months longer.

• First, the intertwined Justice Department investigation, now led by a special counsel, into the ties between the Trump campaign and Russia and, reportedly, the possible cover-up.
• Second, the investigations led by the House and Senate Intelligence Committees, which are broadly looking at Russian intervention in the 2016 election.
• Third, the Senate Judiciary Committee and House Oversight and Government Reform Committee have been looking into former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn’s conduct specifically — and have recently expanded their inquiry to the circumstances surrounding former FBI Director James Comey’s firing.
Donald Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, has reportedly been identified as a “person of interest” in the ongoing investigation into possible ties between Russia and Donald Trump’s campaign.
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi said on Saturday that Republicans in Washington are blocking efforts to investigate allegations of Russian influence in the election of President Trump.
"Trump and the Republicans in Congress must stop stonewalling our quest for the facts," Pelosi told delegates to the California Democratic Party convention in Sacramento.
Trump’s shocking lack of respect
His utter lack of regard for truth.
His scary willingness to repeat alt-right conspiracy theories,

Trumps record is about as impressive as Abbott's was.

Trump is showing himself to be every bit as dangerously incompetent as his critics said he would be. I'd expand in this but the examples are simply too many. Trump demonstrates to us, on an almost-daily basis, why is not capable of or suited to performing the duties of POTUS.

His tweets demonstrate that he still doesn't get it. He has no understanding of the position he holds or the seriousness with which it needs to be treated. It's just a game to him. The latest funny I heard was that they need to keep mentioning his name during security briefings to grab his attention because he continuously wonders off into a day dream.

leoj,

Not everyone is attuned to your political obsessions.
Try to stick to the topic of the discussion.
You can do it. Give it a go.

Dear Aidan, Doog, and AJ.,

What will be interesting is whether the investigations
currently being carried out into Trump's behaviour
constitutes anything illegal. Has he broken any laws?
I guess we'll have to wait and see what develops.

Foxy,

There is no interest here in your invitation to exchange unpleasantries. You have a number of childish exchanges going on in other threads for your amusement.

Is there any coincidence that leftists display so much interest in Trump just when interesting developments are happening in their own backyard?

There is a Labor conference. Bill Shorten is waging the Class War so appreciated on Twitter and by some here. But Shorten is being told off by his colleagues who want the political game playing to abate.

The Labor Party desperately needs REAL internal democracy.

"Listen to senior colleagues, Shorten told

The Turnbull government has called on Labor leader Bill Shorten to take the advice of his shadow cabinet and back an increase in the Medicare levy to fund the national disability insurance scheme.

Mr Shorten used his budget reply speech to announce Labor would only support an increase for people earning more than $87,000 a year.

But Fairfax Media has revealed a majority of his senior colleagues - including deputy leader Tanya Plibersek - argued for the party to back the government's across-the-board 0.5 per cent rise in the Medicare levy.

Finance Minister Mathias Cormann seized on the report saying Mr Shorten should listen to the majority of his shadow cabinet.
"We call on Bill Shorten to reflect on the national interest and the public interest instead of continuing his opportunistic political games," he told ABC radio on Monday."
http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/labor-split-over-medicare-levy-report/news-story/f5b0d1f3739352f5f9b1763904d9b676

Actually Trump is doing a pretty good job of reversing many of the excesses of Obama. This is of course why the lefties hate him.

He is also doing more to keep his promises than any politician has done in my memory, & may be just in time to prevent the collapse of western civilisation, which is still going on at pace in Europe, & to a lesser extent here.

Foxy, sweetie, do try to force yourself away from this lefty propaganda you tend to read, & try some of the stuff in blog space, where something closer to the truth is being told.

leoj,

Why would you interpret my invitation to you to have
an exchange of opinions on the topic of this discussion
as an exchange of "unpleasantries?"

You have just proven my point.

You are not interested in any discussions with me.
All that interests you is attacking me and condemnation.

That is not something that does not interest me.

Dear Hassie,

I read a wide variety of sources. Especially
American ones on this issue. The views being
presented here run along similar lines throughout.

As I stated originally, I do not believe that President
Trump will be impeached. However, it all depends what
the investigators find. I do know that even members of
the Republican Party became rather concerned when Trump
sacked the Director of the FBI Still, even Democrats are
calling for a "go-slow" on Trump's impeachment. Nobody
wants to set that kind of precedent.

'It's Trump, Trump, Trump'!

Meanwhile in Australia at the Labor conference, Bill Shorten is repeating his big swerve to the left(ists) on key policies that he did in the last federal election campaign.

The boats WILL be back if Shorten ever gets to be PM.

You would think that the elements that applauded the Gillian Triggs's 'award' from the grandiosely and misleadingly titled 'Liberty Victoria' would be a mite bit interested. But no, it is, 'Hey lets everyone diss Trump instead'.

Actually, in the US concerned people are merely examining
the options. Nobody wants to set the precedent of an
impeachment of the President. And as the Republicans
control both houses it's unlikely this will happen.

EITHER Trump is playing a very clever, slow game, identifying all of the weaknesses of his 'friends' and enemies, and getting thoroughly organised, ready to launch his raft of far-reaching legislative changes and appointments, in what he has always known fully is a very complex environment.

OR

He is astonishingly inept, narcissistic, paranoid, vindictive, self-preserving and infantile. Perhaps what he has been worrying about is not so much any Russian probes getting close to his associates but those getting close to himself. If he released his ax returns for the last few years, in full, that might clear up a lot of his business links.

OR it might drop him right in it, and he's fully aware (to the extent that Trump can be 'fully aware' of anything) that he might be gone if he does that. His pressure on and treatment of Comey, fear of any investigation, his self-pity about how the news media has carefully unravelled his stories, all point to his guilt.

Yes, I think he might get impeached, from a dozen different directions. He could b in jail by the end of the year. Pence will be President, and Paul Ryan Vice-President, by September. I can't say I'm looking forward to that, either.

We'll see.

If anyone should be in jail it is Hillary, & there is no investigation needed to prove that.

You still have a bit of your early one eyed leaning showing Joe, you need to fight it harder.

Waiting for the nominee for that 'Liberty Victoria' award, Professor Gillian Triggs, President of the AHRC, to shirt-front Labor leader Bill Shorten over the prospect he will be throwing the immigration doors open again like Rudd and the boat people saga will start all over again.

Also, the girls of Labor, the Emily's Listers, are not going to lie down on the job and let that 'Albo' walk into the leadership head of Tanya Plibersek. Hmmm, weather cocks like Penny Wong must be spinning. Especially after Kristina Keneally's video interview (with Credlin).

Interesting times.

Australia US, france, sth korea. Everybody has had enough of these far right characters. They just do not work in favour of the population. they have agenda's to perform and they are not fussy haw they get that power to practice their evil agenda's.
They have fallen one by one right around the world. Some of their followers just can not see their fault.
As soon as liberal return to Liberal the better far all concerned.
The current liberal has been infiltrated with imposter's trying to change liberal to Conservative.
Now Dutton is going to cause a commotion for the Liberal party, they are all the same they can not tell the truth.

What is it that folks don't understand about Fuhrer Abbott's "we have stopped the boats" being nothing more than the media being gagged from reporting on the actual numbers still arriving on our coastline...? NORFORCE has been curtailed, patrols reduced, Customs aircraft flyovers, RAN interdictions still happening, but no information allowed into the public domain. Perception management at its finest, all for the propaganda machine.

Dear Hassie,

The previous FBI Director James Comey found that
Hillary Clinton had done nothing wrong.
And he refused to stop ongoing investigations
concerning the Russians. Maybe that's why he got
sacked by Trump?

Glad to see Mrs. Trump didn't allow herself to be bullied into covering her hair when Donald was consorting with the Saudis. I also liked the 'wtf are we doing here with these creeps' look she wore.

Hi Ttbn,

Yes, good on her, that's what a real woman, although I hesitate to call her a feminist just yet, should do.

The Saudis were very quiet and polite while their guest, Trump, told them that they had huuuge problems with their core values, Islam, and that as a visitor and guest, he's telling them nicely they should do something about it, presumably with their new $ 150 billion worth of armaments. Yeah, that should work.

Now he's off to tell the Israelis and Palestinians to forget their fundamentals, and just do whatever it is they're supposed to do. That should go down well too.

Then, where ? Oh yeah, the Vatican, where he'll tell the Pope to get his act together and do whatever it is he's supposed to do. Beauty, Don.

Then to NATO, that obsolete organisation where nobody but the Yanks pay their way, where he'll tell them to pull their fingers out and pay for their own defence. Good one. Then on to Sicily and solve their problems as well.

Then back home .......... He might be having second thoughts about doing that (can Trump have 'second' thoughts when he can barely manage 'first' thoughts ?) - why not just stay in the Mediterranean, and just laze in the sun, and look at the babes ? Why go back ? I'm sure Batman would never have been unfairly inflicted with those problems. The world is so cruel.

Joe

Trump is smart enough to cultivate Russia as an Allie in the war
against Muslim terrorists.
Most of those running around like chooks with their heads cut off over Russia,
haven't realised, the world and Russia has moved on since the days of KGB Russian
spy movies. Putin is not Stalin.The main threat to Russia is also the main threat to America. Muslim Islamic terrorists.

Those trying to impeach Trump over Russia, put American safety at Risk by displaying
their dislike of Russia. We may well need all the friends we can get as this islamisation
of Europe and Western countries continues.
However the American leaders in the last 50years haven't been very astute in military
strategy.

certainly the biggest political incompetence in this country was Rudd/Gillard opening up our borders to illegal immigrants. Large numbers have been shown to be rapist, paedophiles and abusers. Unfortunately the labour stacked aat support these criminals staying in the country.

Foxy,

Why are they questioning Trump is the question that needs asking. My view is that he is so different from the usual career political hacks that people of all persuasions just don't know how to deal with him; he is beyond their ken, and their natural instinct is to destroy him rather than give him a chance to try something much different from what has failed continuously.

ttbn,

There’s ‘doing things differently’, and then there’s being so incompetent that you present yourself as a national and international security risk, who is undemocratic enough to fire the person in charge of investigating you, and then stupid enough to effectively admit in a tweet that that is precisely what you have done.

By the way, the fact that it took the clumsiest, stupidest, and most ignorant person to have ever been elected POTUS to govern in a way that pleases people like yourself is no coincidence.

Exactly right Cherful, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
All non Islamic countries, and some Islamic ones, have the one enemy.
I have been so surprised how ignorant many people, including in my
family, are totally ignorant of the history of Islamic invasion.
I asked a group which European country's capital city defeated a moslem
army at its gates in 1683 ?
None of them knew that a moslem army had attacked Austria.
Some had heard of the moors in Spain but they were unaware
that Europe has been under attack for a thousand years.
Russia has been under attack by moslems for years. Remember Baslam ?
Over a hundred children died there.
Hungary was only freed from moslem occupation in 1918.

The west urgently needs to form an allience with Russia against Islam.

These outbursts of Islamic war come at intervals, we now need to
adept to the changed tactic of breeding and immigration.
It is not just imagination, it is declared policy of immans.
They are actively promoting it.

Hi Bazz,

Hungary, Muslim until 1918 ? That would have surprised many Hungarians, including my late step-grandfather who left post-revolutionary Hungary in 1919 in a hurry. History books suggest that the Ottomans ruled Hungary only until 1699, to the relief of the Hungarians.

Try this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Hungary

I'm not so sure about your maxim: sometimes the enemy of my enemy is just another enemy. The world can be full of them sometimes, or so it seems. There's no reason though why it should be A or B, either/or.

In Syria, for example, (and we've been over this many times), the enemies of democracy include ISIS, the Russians, the Iranians, Assad, Sunni tribal reactionaries and their Saudi backers, and god knows who else, all mostly fighting each other too. A snake-pit of enemies, if anything.

Joe

Being generally incompetent is not a criminal offense, otherwise Krudd and Juliar would be languishing in jail.

Hi SM,

No, but it sure as hell knocks the daylights out of the chances of Trump backers getting re-elected in next year's mid-terms. It clearly creates a lot of damage to US's international relations, not to mention security arrangements. And frankly, it is making the US a laughing stock.

I hope that Trump lasts at least until the end of the year, to give his 'policies' time to play out, to give him time to commit yet more outrageous gaffes, to perform yet more flip-flops, and to abandon yet more of his supporters to the wolves [watch what may happen to Reibus].

But it must be crossing a few Republican minds that, "if it is to be done, 'tis better that it be done quickly". Their careers hinge on it.

Interesting times, as the Chinese say.

Cheers,

Joe

Hi Cheerful,

Sorry, I can't let that go: Putin is as imperialist as Lenin and Stalin ever were - in fact, they all see/saw themselves as rightfully controlling the old Tsarist Empire, and continuing its enlargement.

After the October Revolution, Lenin and the Bolsheviks were keen to keep the old Empire intact, and under Russian control. So they fought against Polish and Finnish independence, invading both countries within weeks of the Revolution. And getting their arses kicked by both: freedom is a great motivator.

'Socialist' regimes rarely ever give captive regions independence: witness China's brutal control of Tibet and Sinjiang. Come to think of it, witness their 1962 war against India, for control of slices of north-east Assam and Kashmir (the Aksai Chin). And their war against Vietnam in 1979. Where, again, they got their arses kicked.

Nor do 'socialist' countries love each other madly: apart from China-Vietnam, there have been battles between Soviet and Chinese forces along the Amur, back in about 1969-1972. Stalin tried to wrest control of Sinjiang (Eastern Turkestan) from war-ravaged China in the mid-forties. He also proposed to the Czech president Benes in 1938 that Russian troops could occupy eastern Czechoslovakia to protect it from Nazi invasion, according to the journalist George Geddes, in his 'Fallen Bastions'. Benes knocked I'm back.

So Putin is simply following in Russia's historical footsteps: from the Tsars to the Bolsheviks to the kleptocrats of today, that transition has been almost unavoidable. So Putin will not let up on Ukraine, he might have a go at the Baltics, perhaps even Poland; he (or his successor) will clash with the imperialist dreams of Turkey's Erdogan and Iran's rulers to control Central Asia, and with China too, over the same territory. That might be the War of the 2020s [you heard it here first]. Imperialist notions never seem to die.

Cheers,

Joe

Trump's first budget proposals have been announced, including a cut in the food stamps program. If his health care program gets through the Senate, that will cut services to twenty million poorer Americans.

Jobs will come back to the US, but not in the form in which they 'left': much more robotics, automation and demand for technologically-skilled workers. Not much there for miners and farm labourers. And perhaps more in munitions production than renewed mining, the Saudis want armaments more than they want coal.

Oh well, when Trump expels millions of illegal immigrants out of the fields of green, millions of unemployed Americans can take their places.

And when he eventually imposes those taxes on Chinese imports, and Walmart's customers find they will be paying more for those goods, they may not appreciate fully what he is doing to make America great again.

Then there's tax cuts, proposed for some Americans.

Perhaps Trump and his billionaire colleagues are doing everything they possibly can to help America's poorest and unemployed, according to a cunning plan, a long-term program to lift everybody back into a full-production economy, and towards American prosperity for all. Or perhaps not.

Joe

Ahhh Loudmouth you are right. The end of the war in 1918 freed a
number of countries including Greece. Other Balkan countries were
freed at that time.
Something I was not aware was that at one time the moslems invaded
Poland. The French were lucky they were able to defeat the moslems
at Tours or they may have had hundreds of years of Islam.

I think the British have taken note hence Brexit.
Not for the first time they will bless the Channel.

Hi Bazz,

Yeah, that might have been the Mongols - they were halted in what is now Germany, but war parties actually got right through France to the Atlantic.

Those centuries must have been 'exciting' times: from around 710, when the Moors swept into Spain and took control of the Mediterranean, as well as threatening the Byzantine empire, with the Vikings threatening all of northern Europe and the Atlantic coast right down to what is now Algeria and Sicily, with the Huns sweeping in from the East, then the Mongols - it must have seemed like the Apocalypse was upon them.

Greece fought for and won its independence from the Ottoman yoke in 1825. Are we allowed to say 'Ottoman yoke', or have they somehow become 'good' imperialists (i.e. non-European) in contrast to the 'bad' imperialists like Britain and the US ? Maybe we should ask the Greeks.

Joe

OK Joe, Greece invaded part of Turkey in 1918 that was Greek previously
to recover it. I read about that quiet recently somewhere.
The Armistice forced the withdrawal of the Ottomans from the Balkans.

I just read a report on Trump's speech in Saudi and it was a Diplomatic
bit of straight talking it appears.
An American historian did a study of Islamic warfare and invasions over
the last 1400 years. He totalled up either 500 or 800 battles outside
the middle east. All the way from East Asia to Northern Europe.

I find it hard to understand the attitude of people who make excuses
for moslems and try to pretend that they are all very lovely.
They seem to think that the atrocities are all history.
It is not it is active and now.

The childish attacks on Trump are looking sillier every day. Given the absurd screeching of he Left, he is getting it right.

ttbn,

It's hardly "childish" to point out the illegal and unconstitutional nature of what Trump tries to achieve.

You don't really keep up with the news much, do you?

Hi Bazz,

Yes, aggression all the way from Vietnam to Tours. The Mongols sent a fleet up the Red River in northern Vietnam around 1285, but were annihilated by the genius of the Vietnamese leaders. The Mongols also attacked ancient Champa, in central Vietnam. They even had a go at Japan. Ah, the religion of peace.

Of course, a devout Muslim would regard all of those countries, once conquered, to remain forever Muslim, and one day to be reconquered.

And today, a suicide bomber in Manchester, at least nineteen killed. What a gutless bunch - how easy would it be to blow up a rock concert ? Why not try a pre-school ? Or an old people's home ? Worthless, gutless bastards.

I'm no confident that the Saudis are totally hostile to ISIS: Trump's huge arms deal with them may not benefit ISIS this time around, but when they re-form into something worse, in a year or two, how much of those armaments will find there way from gthe Saudis ?

By the way, for Trump to slag Islamic extremism in front of the Saudi King, and an honour-and-shame-obsessed audience, must have been like a guest coming back from the toilet, hitching up his trousers, and saying, "Hey, when are you people gonna clean your sh!thouse ?"

Real tactful.

Oh well, one more step in his 'war against good and evil'. Yes, he really did say that. God help us.

Cheers,

Joe

Back to the topic:

Here is an interesting article on what it would take to impeach Trump:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-23/what-would-it-take-to-impeach-trump-putin/8548070

Joe, I was surprised that you thought Trumps speech to the Saudis was
over the top.
I thought it was great and it makes it clear to the Middle Eastern
religious that things have changed and that they had better take
account of that.
If it had been me I would not have supplied them with weapons.
Not unless they had built in disarm ICs that could be activated by
a radio signal.
It is time now that we give up on moslems, this 1400 year war has got
to either end by modifying Islam or cutting off the Middle East and
returning as many as possible, by force if necessary.

If a disease or animal becomes dangerous then we isolate it from
ourselves, so what is the difference ?
Their mental disability is something we cannot do anything about
and it is fundamentally the source of the problem.

Hi Bazz,

Yes, he's a strange man: he gives over $ 150 billion worth of armaments, so he thinks he can tell them to get their house in order, IN their house, as a guest, i.e. he shames people with an obsession about shame and honour. Dumbest.

Unfortunately, we can't, as the song says, live in a world of our own: we are in the world, and so are 1.5 billion Muslims. We can't pen them up. We obviously can't disappear them somehow.

Yes, they have a problem with the extremes of their religion, which suggests that, in the modern world, they have a problem with their religion per se. We can't keep ignoring that, and neither can they. We can't force people to think differently, or throw away their holy books in one go.

This is going to be a very long process, with Muslims in very many countries rubbing up against the realities of the modern world. Hopefully, bit by bit, people will ever so slightly modify their beliefs, a bit here and a bit there, over time, perhaps generations. In Australia, we have to be more clear about what we stand for, and what we don't approve of, particularly in relation to women's rights.

Caroline Overington had an article in The Australian about Muslim women having to use a swimming pool behind a screen, because men might perve on them and (I think) as well, they believe that women pollute, especially by their blood. Well, that's not really the women's problem, it's MEN's problem, and it should be up to men to do something about their urges or fears - it shouldn't be up to women to shut themselves away for the convenience of men. If men have a problem, they deal with it, they don't put it on women to deal with.

Of course, it may be more complicated in that situation: if people believe that women contaminate water - after all they BLEED - and since blood is toxic or dirty, then of course women are dirty, and men could get contaminated.

A longroad.

Joe

Some interesting developments in the USA:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/23/politics/john-brennan-house-intelligence-committee/

We shall have to wait and see what (if anything) happens
next.

It's interesting that those who would brush the investigation into the Trump campaign's Russian connection off as a few lefties unable to accept the election result were totally silent when the racist Birthers were falsely questioning Obama's place of birth.

Dear AJ.,

Republican nominee for the 2008 US Presidential election
John McCain did speak out for the fact that Obama was
born in the USA. McCain was an honorable man.

We'll have to wait and see how many "Honorable" Republicans
there are left today.

More on Trump news on the web:

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/trump-retain-private-attorney-marc-kasowitz-russia-investigation-n763866

I'd like to Thank everyone who contributed to this
discussion. For me at least it's now run its course.
I look forward to our next topic.
Take care and have a nice day.

Dearest Foxy,

No such luck :) As long as Trump is in the position to do damage, this thread will have plenty to deal with.

Watch Mueller and Brennan and what they dig up - and Trump's desperate attempts to get them fired. Guilty as hell: an innocent man would have nothing to hide, and would welcome any sort of thorough investigation. We've seen too many B-grade conspiracy movies not to recognise the signs.

Love,

Joe

Dear Joe,

Feel free to continue commenting of this issue.

I however don't want to comment on the man any
further. I'll let America decide.

Three closing posts and Foxy finally has the last word, which is the way it has to be.

It must be tough though on leftist luvvys who still cannot get over Clinton's loss, 'We was(sic) robbed".

Clinton is still nagging. She should have won. The electors got it wrong etc.
There will be legs falling off iron pots everywhere.

"Hillary Clinton's 'email' problem was bigger than anyone realized

Clinton: I was on way to winning until Comey, Wikileaks 02:37
(CNN)Hillary Clinton's ongoing struggle to deal with the revelation that she used a private email server during her time as secretary of state ...[Typically, Clinton still doesn't see anything wrong with that either!]"

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/23/politics/clinton-email-2016/

For goodnesss sakes get over it!

A few weeks ago, a federal lawsuit was filed in the state of New York naming Donald Trump as one of two alleged rapists of a 13 year old girl. Despite the gravity of the allegations, the lawsuit seems to have been largely ignored by mainstream media, with the exception of a very comprehensive piece in the Huffington Post written by Lisa Bloom, an attorney and legal analyst for NBC News.
A brief precis: 'Jane Doe', the plaintiff, alleges that in 1994 she was held as a sex slave in an apartment belonging to Jeffrey Epstein (the second defendant in the case). 'Jane Doe' alleges that on one occasion, Trump tied her to a bed, exposed himself and then "proceeded to forcibly rape" her. When she pleaded with him to stop, she says he struck her in the face and yelled that he would do what he wanted. 'Jane Doe' also alleges that Epstein vaginally and anally raped her following the assault by Trump, physically striking her in the head at one point while screaming at Trump that it was he, rather than Trump, who should have been the one to "take her virginity".

leoj,

Most of us are well and truly "over it".

You should take your own advice.

My trying to leave this thread is "not the way
it should be" at all. It's simply the way that I was
brought up you see. To be polite and Thank everyone
who contributed to the discussion that I initiated.
However its a given of course that those you wish to
continue are free to do so. But then as someone
who's "wedded forever to freedom of speech" you should
know that. (joke).

Dearest Foxy,

Welcome back ! Wow, that was a short trip. One of the problems with threads like these as vehicles for opinion, is that they don't have very good brakes: if you start it rolling, you can't control where it will go or end up, certainly not with some contributors pushing from behind. Or trying to push it right off the road.

It's been fascinating to watch Trump flip from his campaign promises, to their opposites once he has actually had responsibility for real, actual, policies. Of course, he has to fit a hell of a lot each time into a four-minute attention-span, so it's understandable if he's completely forgotten some of those promises of months ago.

In his campaign, he slagged the Chinese, Europeans, Arabs, Muslims generally, Mexicans, Canadians, the media, women, and god knows who else - but bit by bit, he's had to crawl back much closer to Obama's positions, i.de. a dose of commonsense has somehow crept in. I think that all foreign leaders have quickly come to realise that they simply have to smile at him, maybe do a bit of fawning, but just go around him, as one would a dog turd.

So what idiocy will he commit today ? Call the Pope an Argy ? Walk in front of him, like he did with Turnbull ? Whip out his mobile in the middle of a conversation to talk to the Russians ?

Love,

Jo

Dear Joe,

No. I'm not back.

I merely acted on the advice of my doctor.
He told me to respond to leoj (aka - on the beach).
It would be better for me. So I did.

Jo,
The Pope needs to be told he is wrong, he presides over the Catholic Churches
refusal to allow contraception. So he does not condem male dominance
and lack of contraceptive rights for women as being the real cause of extreme overpopulation, resulting in poverty war and famine. Instead he takes the populist stance, thus currying favour with his followers of blaming Europe and Western countries
for all the unrest and poverty in the world. He's a hyprocrite, as cunning as any politician,in the public speeches he makes to drum up support for his continued
following. Why wouldn't he? He lives like a king, in a castle called the Vatican where he is waited on by servants, who cook clean and wash and generally wait on him. Plus he wears ruby rings worth a small fortune. Part of the ancient treasure of the church no doubt. I love Trump for snapping back at him for his criticism.

And good on him for having the guts to stand in front of all those Muslim leaders
and tell them to clean up their act. That the terrorist problem is an Islamic one,
not a Western one. I watched a newspaper fellow on utube in an interview and he
said. The West hasn't failed Islam. Islam has failed the West.

Hallelujah! Someone has the guts to say this loud and clear.
It's about time people in Western countries started to speak out loudly and
clearly instead of nodding their heads in agreement to manipulative Islamist behaviour
and propaganda.
ABC TV panelist show Q&A immediately springs to mind.
What a wonderful Muslim propaganda machine, they have been.
Thank God for Jackie Lambie, on that show recently, where she had the guts
to stand, that woman with the ridiculous towel wrapped around her head,
up about Sharia Law.

BAZZ

You were spot on about the on-going Muslim violence, in the last few centuries, at least.
Including in every country they are in, around the world, in the present centuries.

In the form of the Ottomon Empire in the middle if the 1800's, they massacred the Christians in Damascus and Allepo.
They tried to wipe out most of the European
Christians who fell under the dominance of the Ottomon Empire.

Western schools taught very little about the Ottomon Empire, and seemed totally
unaware of what the history of the Ottomon empire, the Muslim Empire and the
lethal extermination they carried out against all who weren't Muslim.
Instead we hear incessantly of the German nazis,

Well the Ottomon empire were nazis too, in their extermination of all of "the other"

I don't think it's unrelated, that the Serbian, Bosnian war flared up. It dates back to the unease between the Muslims and the European Serbs for massacres carried out under the Muslim Ottoman Empire.

Likewise this flaring up of who's going to control places like Damascus and Allepo, given the above mentioned massacres of the European Christians in those areas at the time of the Ottoman Empire mid 1800's.
Is it really a co-incidence that those 2cities were involved in this latest flare up between
tribes over there in Syria. I tend to think, it's all connected.

Muslim violence, ever present and on-going, something the West, in its limited
understanding of this history, is only becoming aware of now, and even now because of
a lack of historical investigation and reporting by journalists, only chasing money making
headlines, is still limited in understanding. It's ironic, in the extreme, when we let them
accuse us of being far right wing and nazi. When the Muslim religion itself, is the very
authoritarian, far right, nazi regime, it accuses the western countries of being.

The joke is on the large number of so called educated whites, who believe in our guilt,
but think the Muslims are the peaceful sheep, (in wolf's clothing) they pretend to be.
Talk about fairy stories.

Hi Cheerful,

I'm not saying that Trump was wrong in the at he handled himself, just that there are ways and ways, and his ways were crass and ultimately unhelpful. You need a bit of tact, even, or maybe especially, with such creatures as the Saudis. In any case, what he has achieved with his arms deal is to massively up the odds of a far bigger, all-out, Sunni vs Shi'ite war, which the world could do without at this time.

Yes, I agree with your comments about the atrocities committed by various Muslim regimes in the past 1300 years. It brings up the issue of criticism of Islam, which, like criticism of Christianity or any other religion, is perfectly justified, especially given that the bombing atrocities never seem to be carried out by Buddhists or Hindus or even those nasty Christians, but by Muslims. That's the reality.

We need to differentiate between fascist Muslims, and 'ordinary' Muslims gong about their business with no ill-will towards anyone. The pseudo-Left also make the huge mistake, and possibly a racist mistake (to the extent that Muslims are a 'race'), by lumping even those fascists in with those 'ordinary' Muslims and denying there is any difference. That's just as 'racist' and ultimately anti-Muslim as the most vicious attacks on Muslims as a whole. Instead, they absolve ALL Muslims by denying that atrocities are carried out by people using the Muslim books as their excuse, when clearly they are.

Of course, the vast majority of Muslims, here and around the world, have no intention whatever of harming their fellow-citizens. But some do: we need to call that out when it occurs, and seek out the rationale for such fascism. The pseudo-Left has a long history of pandering to fascism, perhaps in the smug belief that, by

[A] letting fascism build its strength and taking power,

[B] they will expose how evil they are,

[C] there will be popular revolt against them and then - hallelujah !

[D] the pseudo-Left can take over in the political vacuum.

So jihadi denialism is nothing new.

Cheers,

Joe

I now look forward to forming a government that is competent, that is trustworthy, and which purposefully and steadfastly and methodically sets about delivering on our commitments to you, the Australian people.
Did this bloke believe what he said.

Jo

I must say I agree with you, about America selling weapons or did they just give them
to Saudi Arabia. They seem to do this all the time.

They armed Suddam Hussein originally, because they saw Iran as the enemy.

Who can fathom why America makes some of it's crazy decisions.
I no longer agree with bringing any Muslims into Australia or America or Europe.
The good ones here now are fine and eventually the bad ones will attack and be weeded out.

But bringing more in with the argument that they are good Muslims, doesn't allow for
the weeding out of the bad ones. Because as quickly as they show their hand
and are removed from society you have more coming in hiding amongst the good ones.

I am really against bringing in more Muslims , after the killing of those children in England.
The politicians, know that this should be stopped, but they' are more concerned with holding on to their well paid political positions.

Europe now reminds me of those Jews getting passively on those German trains.
Not really believing that the well educated, civilised supposedly good German people
would really load them on a train and send them to gas ovens to die.

I simply don't trust the moderate so called harmless Muslims, in the end they will chose the God they wear that head scarf for,
over non believers or Australian law.

All the wars in history were carried out by the armies of supposedly good people.

Hi Cheerful,

Yes, I'm puzzled why the US has been so hostile to Iran since the fascist revolution - they might be totalitarian, but that's never stopped the Yanks. They might be hostile to Israel, but so is pretty much all of the Middle East. Of course, they should be restricted in their own aggressive activities, support for Hamas and Hezbollah obviously.

But why not just dangle incentives in front of its regime, like they've done with so many others, Saddam's as an obvious example ? Apart from their real threat to Israel, they don't seem to be exporting or financing terrorism as some other unnamed Middle Eastern regimes are. I'm not sure that selling $ 150 billion worth of the latest armaments to one of the worst perpetrators is a step in the direction of regional peace.

Perhaps the Don, as capo da capo of a particular cabal, has plans to assist an all-out war between Sunni and Shia, 1.5 billion people right across Europe, north Africa and Asia. India is an ally of Iran and Pakistan a lackey of the Saudis, both nuclear powers, so could such a war be confined ? Which particular barbarism would China side with ?

Cheers,

Joe

Hi Jo,
It certainly is an uncertain world as you.point out in your post.

It's hard to know where the next threat might originate. Americas reactions don't exactly inspire confidence,

I think the moderate leader was re-elected in Iran last week.
I thought that was good news. Since he's been in power the people have
been freer to go about without the religious police telling them how to dress etc.

And he is also more in favour of having a better relationship with America.
As limited as that may be.

I liked the world 50years ago better.
But I guess peace has always been just an illusion. There was always a conflict somewhere, Vietnam and the IRA. were two. But they seemed distant from Australia then. Now the conflicts seem much closer to home.
I hope somehow we can ride out the storm and Australia can find a way forward for the sake of all our kids.