The planned extradition of 'alleged' terrorist, Neil Prakash, is just one more of the silly decisions we have come to expect from the Turbull government.

Turnbull is blurting about what a dangerous, evil character Prakash is, and how much prison time he should get, stupidly ignoring the pathetic record of Australian courts when it comes to sentencing, and the costs of regaining this animal, the costs of his trial, and the costs of keeping him incarcerated.

Why not just leave him in Turkey, or whatever rock he can find to crawl under, and simply ensure that he never enters Australia again? Nothing our piss weak courts would hand out will make any contribution to the war against terror.

Simple answer, Turnbull wants to be able to come out and say how hard he is and protecting Australia.

If he comes back will bet Turnbull will maybe in a small way use it in the next run up to an election.

Cost does not matter Turnbull does not pay we do.

Terrorism is Australia's problem as much as it is Turkey's problem, and and the rest of the Worlds problem, It is something that only a united front will defeat, locking up terrorists is only one small part of the solution. Much more has to be done to solve the massive problems confronting people in many parts of the World. The state that the Middle East is in now is fertile ground for terrorists, and until we all come up with a peaceful, fair solution, its not going to go away.
Turnbull is a politician, who is lagging in the polls, well behind in the game, so I would expect if he can gain some political mileage out of this Neil Prakash business, he will. You could say sarcastically, its a Turnbull/Prakash ticket.

another problem created by pig headed labour/liberal/greens pollies who just chant the mantra about the 'religion of peace'.

And now, runner, there is a nutter thinking that getting kids to play football will quash all desire for 'radicalism' in the young. The problems is not 'radicalism'; the problem is Islam, and the very existence of a Muslim diaspora in Australia and anywhere in the West.There was never any need for Australia to import Muslims and Islam into our country. Even an idiot like Turnbull can see the stupidity of it but, being part of the elite system, he now has to quack rubbish in the hope that people will forget that he and his kind are the cause of problems like Neil Prakash. I doubt very much that the extradition will ever take place. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Kids playing football may give those kids inclusion, as opposed to exclusion. So maybe these Nutters are doing something for community.
You need to get to know some muslims instead of being frightened of them.
I have no idea what runner said, but the adverse words about Muslims is a far right Phenomena. It's as much political as it is social.

doog,

I'm not frightened of Muslims - I just dislike them and their Islamofascism, which seems to be acceptable to you of the Left.

BTW, you have still not named the 'far right's people you claim are in the Coalition. If they do exist, as you claim, how is it that the Leftist, Turnbull, is now their leader and PM, and not Tony Abbott?

Dear ttbn,

The following link explains why Tony Abbott lost
his leadership:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-34241486

As for far-right members currently in the Coalition -
Tony Abbott, Eric Abetz and Kevin Andrews are just some
names that come to mind.

Sorry, Foxy, you'll have to print it out and mail it to ttbn. Ain't no way you'll get him to click on a link. It has not credibility until it's in hard-copy form.

--

Seriously, though, George Christensen in another far-right member of the Liberal party. They're still a minority, though, so it's pretty daft to cite Turnbull's toppling of Abbott as evidence that there are no far-right members of the Liberal party.

Dear AJ,

What effect (if any) do you think Cory Bernardi's
leaving the fold will have on the Coalition?

Abbott was kicked out because Turnbull wanted the job. When he got the job, he turned out to be even worse at everything he said Abbott was no good at. Turnbull made a great twat of himself, and since the coup, has continued demonstrate that.

Foxy has listed her 'far right' candidates. I do not agree with her, which probably probably puts me in the far right category, although, as Foxy has taken me to task in the past for 'labelling' people, I'm sure that she wouldn't label me. Her labelling certain Coalition politicians must have been a slip.

I still don't understand why doog is unable to name his picks.

Dear ttbn,

Labels belong on clothes not people. And I wasn't the
one labelling the politicians. They've done that
themselves. I was merely responding to your question
to Doog. I also happen to live in the electorate of
Mr Kevin Andrews. I know him and his family rather
well.

There you go.

ttbn, why don't you do something "new and constructive" and start an 'Anti-Muslim' thread. What a miserable person you are, full of hateful bile.

Runner, why don't you change religions and become a "Christian". the one you're in now has no compassion, no love for others, just based on hate. What is it? What ever it is, frankly it stinks.

Even the crazy right faction, within the Liberal Party, the dreaded 'Uglies' realized Abbott was taking them in the direction of political oblivion. So for no other reason than self preservation they opted for Turnballs!

I have had little time for Abbott but even less for Turnbull.

Turnbull was a dud when he was leader of the Republicans and when he was Opposition leader. I just cannot believe the Libs could not find some one else if they felt Abbott was not suitable. Turnbull is a complete waste of time and space.

After the debacle of the last Labor government I thought it would be decades before we got another one, but it now seems certain that Labor will be back. Poor fella my country!

Glad I will not have to endure it for too much longer.

Dear Foxy

It’s funny you should ask, because I realised I should have mentioned Bernardi after I posted my last comment, even if he’s no longer a member of the Liberal party. I think Bernadi’s departure is a good thing for the Coalition, and is yet another sign of their slow and necessary shift to the centre.

You wouldn’t think so reading the unrepresentatively-conservative comments on OLO (from a disproportionately-retired-male readership), but I don’t think the old flavour of conservatism, that the Liberal party members we’ve listed represent, is ever going to win elections anymore. Each successive generation seems to be more progressive than the last.

Sure, fringe parties like One Nation get a short-lived injection from a disgruntled few from time to time, but eventually they collapse under their own vacuousness and lack of meaningful purpose. Even the presidency of Trump (a 'fringe' character leading a major political party) is slowly collapsing around him.

I had a lot more to say but ended up deleting it. I'm a little too busy at the moment to poke a hornet's nest, unfortunately.

What are your thoughts?

--

ttbn,

So, if someone else wants the Liberal leadership, then that’s all that will be required to oust Turnbull? I don’t think so. Your logic is flawed.

Dear AJ,

I've come across an interesting article on why right wing
politics is fracturing in Australia that I think you
might find of interest:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/more-than-cory-bernardi-why-right-wing-politics-is-fracturing-in-australia-20170207-gu7c2u.html

Hi Foxy, we probably get a distorted view of conservative politics on the forum.It appears most of the contributors from that side of the fence are out of touch crusty old conservative fellas, or out and out Hansonites, no matter whatever they are, they are out of touch with the majority of Australians, although they like to think they represent the views of the majority all of the time. As a Green, and I don't claim to represent the majority opinion on all issues, I have more in common with younger progressive Liberal Party members, than, say conservative Labor people, and certainly nothing in common with that crusty mob of regressives and Hansonites on here. But it makes for interesting debate at times.

Dear Paul,

I fully agree with you.

I love OLO, challenging as it is at times.

I'm still continuing to learn from it.

Foxy,

Rather presumptuous of you to respond on behalf of someone else. As for “ And I wasn't the one labelling the politicians. They've done that themselves.”, I seem to remember saying something very similar to you when you accused me of labelling people some time ago. I supposed I should be flattered that you pinched my lines.

Banjo,

I know how you feel. Just imagine starting out life in what the Left has reduced this country to. Not for me, thankyou. The best is long gone. I just hope there is an afterlife so that I can watch them fighting among themselves over what's left.

Dear ttbn,

Thanks for sharing and bringing a chuckle or two into
my life. Continue to be awesome!

I see no reason why Prakesh can' spend the rest of his life in a Turkish prison, and why Aus has to spend $120 000 p.a. and let him infect Aussie prisoners with his poison.

Paul, Foxy,

Your analysis of conservative politics is laughable. I guess that I can then label Plibersek, Wong and Triggs as far left whingers?

Dear Shadow Minister,

It's not my analysis.

And you can do whatever you like.

Looks like another Turnbull lie is revealed. ANY LIE is okay for politicians.

A disappearing act: what happened to the lifetime refugee visa ban?

When the Turnbull government announced a lifetime ban on boat people ever setting foot in Australia, it said the policy was "critical" to protecting Australia's borders and clearing the decks on Manus Island and Nauru.

But almost seven months on, the controversial proposal has all but disappeared from the government's agenda, prompting speculation it was only advanced to elicit a temporary bounce in the polls.

The bill, which stops anyone taken to Nauru and Manus Island after July 19, 2013 from ever being granted a visa to come to Australia, was rushed into Parliament by Immigration Minister Peter Dutton in November.

This week marks six months since it passed the lower house, but it has never been brought on for debate in the Senate and crossbenchers have not been engaged in negotiations despite a chance of success.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/a-disappearing-act-what-happened-to-the-lifetime-refugee-visa-ban-20170511-gw2b38.html

They say they will do something then put it off hoping we will forget it. And, it takes the SMH to bring to our attention that it was all talk. Amazing.

ttbn, it is well known that those of your political persuasion have a very short attention span. For Turnballs to can some promise, like a lifetime ban on reffo's, remembering Little Johnny Howard made a distinction between core and non core promises. Non core promises you could chuck out the window immediately, core promises, you had to wait five minutes until your supporters, like your good self, had completly forgotten about them. Glad the SMH is doing you fellas a service, jogging your memory, and I would say, that would be no easy task. maybe Turnball's is taking a leaf out of Little Johnnies book.

Shadow, a dour old conservative finds nothing "laughable" it is all pessimistic doom and gloom for you fellas. Remember the famous words of the Kooyoung Kid, aka the show pony of the Liberal Party, Andrew Peakcock; "It is a very serious matter!" and for Andy that included everything, even what he had for breakfast.
Therefore you cannot be a true conservative and find anything laughable.

Shadow, I was wondering where you had got to, thinking you might have been off on your annual sabbatical or something simmilar, possibly visiting The Donald for more words of inspiration.

Of course, we're deliberating over the worst sort of criminals, quite possibly with a string of brutal murders and tortures to their names. So clearly they would have to locked away for life. But where ?

Is it possible to generate a small remote-area economic resurgence by building new maximum-security prisons say, north of Oodnadatta or west of Betoota (check out Google Maps). There's plenty of room out there for a system of scattered single-cell isolation rooms, say fifty metres apart from each other.

Of course, provision of amenities should be extremely limited: no phones of any sort, for instance. Music of course: perhaps Triple-J could be played 24/7. Of course, prisoners should be allowed out for at least a half-hour per day over the 24 hours of a day, preferably midnight to five a.m., and of course with the times staggered so that they never see each other.

Perhaps there wouldn't need to be any fences, prisoners could be trusted on a sort of honour system - but unfortunately, they may be regrettably shot while trying to escape across the desert.

Prisoners should be provided with minimal materials for leisure, for example ropes for knot-tying exercises: hours of fascinating fun.

We need to be constructive in matters like these.

Joe

Paul,

Sometimes when you left whingers indulge in manic ranting and mutual back slapping, especially when you are so far off the topic I chose to leave you wallowing in your delusion. If you and Foxy continue like this you will get an award from Liberty Victoria. Probably for mathematics or other subjects for which they are equally incompetent.

As for attention span, the greens and labor have the attention span of a goldfish especially considering the recent night of the long knives within the greens, and the battles amongst the labor factions for pre selection.

Dear Paul,

Isn't this fun?

Trying to argue intelligently with some people.

Worst 5 minutes of my life.

Best to simply ignore or walk away.

Oh god, isn't it painful when you get one of these lefties so impressed with their own literary abilities, brilliance & sense of humour that they can actually write & show publicly the sort of cr*p that we see above.

Tell us Paul, is it uncomfortable wearing your pants sideways, so you can pee in your own pocket?

Turnbulls budget was very election like, Abbott said not something the Conservatives would do.
If they make a party who would they give their preferences to, If they give it to Hanson they would cut their own throat.
Learn from the past and give the idea away, or make a fool of themselves.
I have not seen anything from the former disgraced PM since pre budget. Hard right is politically biased and does not rate.

Dear Paul,

Hassie would know all about - the older he
gets the more dangerous it is to sneeze.

Paul & Foxy,

I don't understand why you obliquely support extreme-right-wing murderers and torturers, and get all prissy about what to do with them, launching quite vicious attacks on anybody who comes up with suggestions.

They are going to be a problem: if their only citizenship is Australian, then they can't be deprived of it and become stateless. They remain Australian. So our government has to work out what to do with them.

You seem to suggest that nothing should be done at all (after all, you make no suggestions, only whinge and bitch at anybody who does), perhaps you would welcome them back and give them sympathetic counselling, perhaps put them on disability pensions. I don't see it quite that way: they have killed innocent people, murdered them, perhaps tortured and raped them as well.

We don't have the death penalty anymore, so that's out. If it were still in place, we could ask Syrian and Iraqi refugees if they wished to pull the levers. That might be quite therapeutic for them.

But without that, we have to find ways to incarcerate them for life, in a way which denies them any contact with anybody else, certainly their families and each other. I've suggested new isolation prisons around Oodnadatta and Betoota: what do you think of that idea ?

Try to be constructive now :)

Joe

'I don't understand why you obliquely support extreme-right-wing murderers and torturers, and get all prissy about what to do with them, launching quite vicious attacks on anybody who comes up with suggestions.'

to busy banging on about fake news (gw) than real threats. This sort of ignorance does not go well for our grandkids. Myriads have been dumbed down over the last few decades.

Hi Runner,

You might be onto something. Lately it's struck me that many people seem to have a very shaky idea about what reality is. Not necessarily just young people, but people of all ages who seem to think that reality is like some sort of shop from which you can choose the reality which suits you best, and ignore anything else, especially if it seems a bit negative and runs against what you already believe. I suppose there's a word for that.

Yes, of course there is: prejudice. Strictly, it mean judging before any evidence, and by implication, denying any evidence which goes against what someone already believes, not changing your mind no matter what evidence is thrown up.

But there seems more to it: a real assumption that all reality is illusory, there are many equally illusory realities, so one can just choose whichever version, brand, make, or prejudice that one likes best. The problem with all that is that there IS a reality, 'out there', and it will, sooner or later, bite them on the arse.

So what do we do with Australians who have committed fascist acts of brutality and terror ?

Joe

Dear Joe,

I do not support any form of violence or any criminals
as you well know from my posting record over the years
on this forum. What I do respond to however is personal
attacks on people with at times some humour to deflate
the situation. But then you should also know that.

Joe,

I'd put them away without the hope of parole and in prisons well out in the desert.
Guarded by Army Infantry units on a four month rotation.
Fly in fly out and only electric vehicles for local transportation.

Any mucking up and the food stops.

'So what do we do with Australians who have committed fascist acts of brutality and terror ? '

capital punishment!

Joe back in your tree,

Foxy (as I read what she has posted) and I, do not sympathize with terrorism or terrorists in any shape or form. While you and others, like Is Mise has just posted, are concentrating on pulling the wings off a few fly's (the crime and punishment aspect). Which I suspect is more to do with self gratification for you than anything else, it does not solve the deep seated problems. We on the other hand, are looking at the broader picture and systemic problems of the dung heap where the fly's are breeding.
I made the point, this is not a problem for one country, but for all of civilization. Your claim that Foxy and I are "pussy" about these things is well out of order!
We have had politicians, Bush, Blair and Howard for three, try the hard line, killing more innocent civilians, people you never mention, than anything else, and where are we, no more advanced than we were 20 years ago.
How many are you prepared to lock up in prisons at Oodnadatta or west of Betoota, or next door to your house? One, ten, ten thousand.

Runner "So what do we do with Australians who have committed fascist acts of brutality and terror?"
The answer for you should be simple, we let them continue as Priests and Brothers in the Catholic Church, protected by Rome.

Hi Paul,

Well, what then ? The bottom line is that brutal criminals can not be allowed to ever go free in Australia, nor (okay, two bottom lines) should they be able to communicate with anyone. Anyone.

As for your comment, "How many are you prepared to lock up in prisons at Oodnadatta or west of Betoota, or next door to your house? One, ten, ten thousand....."

next to my house, or anyone else's, none. How many out beyond Oodnadatta or Betoota for life ? It depends how many come back from their murderings and rapings overseas. The questions remain, Paul: how many would YOU lock up ? How many would you allow to remain on the streets ? And if not there, where ? In ordinary prisons, associating with other prisoners ? In solitary somewhere ? Then why not Oodnadatta or Betoota ?

Simple questions, now that you've bought into the argument: where ? And on what conditions ?

Now that ISIS is crumbling, the fleas will jump from its rotting carcase - and if back to Australia, then what do we do ?

Twist and turn, and talk about pulling wings off flies all you like, the questions remain :)

I suspect that dead silence will be the stern reply.

Cheers,

Joe

Dear Joe,

We've covered this issue so many times on this forum.
Yet you persist in throwing up the same old arguments.

The political and cultural institutions that govern
Australia are absolutely critical to the attitude of
harmony and tolerance. As stated so often in the past -
within an institutional framework that preserves tolerance
and protects order we can all live together in harmony.

There is one law we are all expected to abide by. It is
the law enacted by the Parliament under the Australian
Constitution. If you can't accept that then you don't
accept the fundamentals of what Australia is and what it
stand for. And if you break the law you should be dealt
with accordingly.

Dearest, sweet, gentle, loving Foxy,

Then what ? As you say " .... if you break the law you should be dealt with accordingly." But how, in these cases ?

Hard questions: can terrorists be allowed to mix with other prisoners ? Should they have visitors ? Phones ? No ? Then how to isolate them for life, where they can't do any more damage ? Then why not Betoota or Oodnadatta, or somewhere south of Mulan in WA ?

Sorry, dear, I'll keep on throwing up old and stale arguments until a better one is proposed :(

Love,

Joe

Foxy,

Firstly the articles to which you linked are opinion pieces, and in case you have difficulty interpreting the blindingly obvious:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom

The Guardian
Political leaning: Centre-left
Party support in 2015 General election: Labour Party/Green Party, liberal Democrats in marginal non-Labour seats

In a comparison of papers the Public rated the Guardian as the most left whinge publication closely followed by the Mirror then the Independent.

The fact that the author of the article to which you linked considered the manifesto to be "not radical enough" in spite of including nationalisation of private businesses, vast tax hikes on businesses and the wealthy and middle classes and a huge budget deficit, should point to a deep bias.

The proof of the pudding is that most Labour candidates make any reference to the manifesto or Corbyn in any of their electioneering material, because both are vote killers.

"Dearest, sweet, gentle, loving Foxy", Joe... there is no need to be condescending of Foxy like that, you can stick it up me as much as you like, but Foxy does not deserve that nonsense, save the nonsense for me.

ALSO, You are concentrating on one aspect of the problem, and like others you come down hard on the crime and punishment aspect, I have no love for this bloke Prakash, no doubt he requires the maximum security, I'm not an eye for an eye person, so I don't favor breaking his arms and legs, athough he is guilty of worse crimes. On the other hand i'm not going to throw him a birthday party either.
Is that acceptable?

Hi Paul,

I suppose we all make the same mistake about that injunction: "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" but when it was proposed four-odd thousand years ago, it was a massive advance on the ancient tribal and idiotically endless systems of vendettas - aitua. The principle was really quite sensible from a modern point of view - literally, an eye from the guilty in response for an eye from a victim, AND NO MORE THAN THAT. End of. Shake hands and make up. No more endless vendetta. Of course, it expanded the role (and the reach) of the Babylonian State vis-à-vis the family or the tribe.

But you don't have to go to any extremes :)

So are you suggesting that any sort of firm punishment for Prakash would be excessive ? No ? Then what ? Solitary confinement ? Yes/no ? No right to communicate with anyone ? Yes/no ? Perhaps a need for a very remote prison to isolate people like him ? Yes/no ?

Or should be be treated as just an ordinary prisoner with all those rights to communicate, since, after all, he may not have committed any serious crimes actually in Australia ? Perhaps a six-month suspended sentence, and a caution ?

See, you're not the only one who can take an argument to its silly extremes :)

Cheers,

Joe

Dear Joe,

As I stated earlier, people who break our laws should
be punished. They should have the full force of the
law brought down upon them. What that will be exactly
will be up to the courts to decide - depending on their
crime. I am not a lawyer or a judge and I am in no
position to make that sort of a decision.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I do try to quote from a variety of sources as my record
on this forum shows. However I am not impressed with
the type of media that wages a constant campaign to
smear and discredit every progressive and humanitarian
measure being proposed. I find it difficult when the
reporting consists of partisans offering nonsensical
arguments simply for political scoring.

In any case you have made your position quite clear.
I'll leave it at that.

Dear Paul,

Criminals and terrorists should be dealt with according
to our laws. We've both made that quite clear both now
and in the past. It would also help, in my opinion, if
Australian policy-makers were concerned to ensure that
ethnic enclaves were not created, as has happened in
countries such as Germany and Britain. We are fortunate
in this country that migrants take less time to feel
at home in Australia than those who migrate to
European countries. But we still have challenges, with
research showing some second generations of migrants
still feeling disconnected and not identifying themselves
as Australian.

Mainstream Australian culture can sometimes impose labels
on certain communities and this can encourage people into
identifying themselves other than Australian and take on
past ethnic conflicts.

What we want is the creation of an Australia that's inclusive
enough so that people don't feel they have to hold on to
those enmities from the past, because they feel that there
is a different way here. And that does not mean that we
excuse criminals, terrorists, or any kind of thugs.

Dear Foxy,

This topic has little to do with multiculturalism and immigration, it's more concerned with the dilemma of what to do with terrorists returning to Australia, given that the justice and penal systems may not be able to treat them as run-of-the-mill prisoners.

In other words, the government may have to move into new territory: clearly these murderers and rapists can't be allowed to mix with 'ordinary' criminals (or don't you agree ?). They may have to be isolated from any contact with other prisoners, and indeed with anybody (or can you think of an alternative?). They may have to be kept in confinement for life.

The bottom line is that they can't be allowed to influence anybody else towards their extreme-right-wing ideology. Or have I got that wrong too ?

Extreme confinement for life may breach some international covenants on the rights of prisoners. Gosh, what a shame. Alternatively though, they could be shot while trying to escape across the desert. That sounds fair enough. Sort of Babylonian, don't you think ?

Love,

Joe

Terrorists are not criminals - they are enemy combatants.

Enemy combatants when caught should never be despised, placed on trial, convicted or otherwise be treated as criminals. Rather, they should be locked up in P.O.W. camps for as long as they are deemed dangerous.

While in a P.O.W camp, they should be given the bare minimum conditions unless they are willing to work and pay for better comforts.

When is it safe to release them and what to do with them afterwards, is an operational issue which is better left for the military/security experts. Once it is no longer believed that they can do any further harm, they should be sent back to their countries of origin or any other country that is willing to accept them. If none are, but there are countries which identify with their terrorist cause, then they should parachuted over such a country.

Dear Joe,

I realise what this topic is about and as even you
concede we have to make sure that these people
do not influence others. That was what I was
trying to address. I am responsible for what I say,
not for how you interpret it.

Yuyutsu,

True. They are not criminals. That is why it is stupid to have civil police and the likes of the FBI dealing with them. There is a war between Islam and the West. Military forces are the only ones who should be involved in combating, destroying, interrogating and punishing them if they haven't been sensibly destroyed in the first instance.

The surviving commander of the 9/11 attack was shocked when America reacted with direct military action instead of handing it over to the FBI to pussy foot about with as had happened prior to George W Bush.

"Terrorists are not criminals - they are enemy combatants."

What unadulterated "nugae sunt istae magnae," or, in the rough, "excrita bovinus".

I would have thought that Australians like Prakash, who have done what he has done, are BOTH criminals and enemy combatants fighting against Australian interests.

As such, they have committed treason, an old-fashioned offense that used to be one of the only crimes earning the death penalty. I wonder if such penalties are still on the books somewhere.

If his only citizenship is Australian, we have to take him back: nobody can be deliberately rendered stateless, that would be a bit cruel, and it breaches international conventions. So what then do we do ?

He can't be allowed to influence anybody else. So what then do we do ?

So we have to take him back. And we have to confine him very severely, for life. So, where ?

Seriously, Betoota may welcome such an employment boost: I'm sure the Betoota Advocate would champion such an initiative. The local hotel could run medals out to him a couple of times a day, and just slip them under his door on returnable paper plates. No cutlery though.

Joe

Sounds like some of you need to brush up on your international law.

Terrorists are not (lawful) enemy combatants in the sense to which Yuyutsu and ttbn refer. Terrorists are are 'unlawful' enemy combatants, and as such are treated as civilian criminals.

You can argue why you think they should be considered lawful enemy combatants (as has been done many times unsuccessfully), but to state so emphatically that terrorists are indeed (lawful) enemy combatants just makes you look silly.

Sorry, I didn't mean " ..... The local hotel could run medals out to him a couple of times a day, and just slip them under his door on returnable paper plates..... "

I meant " ..... The local hotel could run meals out to him a couple of times a day, and just slip them under his door on returnable paper plates...... "

Unlike some on the pseudo-Left, I don't think Prakash should be awarded any medals, although in next year's Liberty awards, he will very likely be considered. All he might have to do is send in a video of himself with a couple of Yazidi girls. Or any of countless other similar videos.

Joe

Dear Joe,

«If his only citizenship is Australian, we have to take him back: nobody can be deliberately rendered stateless, that would be a bit cruel, and it breaches international conventions»

Firstly, nobody would want to come "back" anyway if they know that all that awaits them here is jail. I think that this would be even more cruel!

Now why do you need to take him back?
Australians seem to have this strange habit of saying "I can't" when what they really mean to say is "it would be illegal for me to do it". Of course you CAN render them stateless - you are just caught up in this silly political-correctness attitude, a psychological barrier that prevents you from breaking laws - get over it, go ahead and breach those international conventions if that what it takes!

Nobody is going to benefit from keeping a terrorist in an Australian jail - neither the terrorist nor the tax-payer!

Foxy,

Considering that just about every link you provide is an opinion piece from a news organisation that is well left of centre you are unlikely to find an opinion that differs from yours. Obviously you are content to live in an echo chamber sealed from the views of the real world. The moment you condemn all the MSM then you know you are living on the fringe.

Dear Shadow Minster,

The day that you vary your opinions and sources
will be the day that I shall take you seriously.
Until then - before you criticise any one else
look to fixing up yourself and your own behaviour
on this forum

cont'd ...

BTW: I do not condemn all the MSM.
As my posting record shows. I quote
from a wide variety of sources.

Hi my sweet little cuddly pie... Joe,

Unfortunate Foxy and I seem to be at a distinct disadvantage in this argument. Our problem is we will have to admit that we are not the learned judges that obviously you, and several others from the rabid right must be, thoroughly equated with all the legal facts in this particular case as you are, forget I said that, bugger it, who needs legal niceties when there is a public hanging in the offer, you mob would do the infamous Judge Jeffreys proud.

Alas, all Foxy and I can offer is, and I quote Foxy here;

"people who break our laws should
be punished. They should have the full force of the
law brought down upon them. What that will be exactly
will be up to the courts to decide - depending on their
crime "

I know the above would never satisfy Judge Jeffreys, and the members of the peanut gallery here, as it doesn't mention, to be hung, drawn and quartered, (please forgive our pussyness on that score) but possibly it may satisfy you.

Love and Kisses Paul.

Please, Paul, I'm not like that :(

Wow, you do get a bit rabid when you have no argument. Going to extremes won't cut it.

I'm certainly not assuming the mantle of a judge, simply asking what might the parameters be that are available to any government, when dealing with a fascist murderer and rapist.

But if you wish to defend him, no matter what he's done, that's your prerogative in a free society. I most respectfully disagree with your championing of the fascist murderer Prakash as some sort of pseudo-left-wing poster-boy.

By the way, he can't be hanged, that's not legal any more in Australia: as it happens, back in 1967, I joined the campaign against the hanging of the last person to be executed, Ronald Ryan, partly because I believed he wasn't guilty. As it turned out, much later, he wasn't.

Of course, in this case, and no doubt in future cases of returning terrorists, we are in somewhat unprecedented penal territory: obviously Prakash can't be just allowed to enjoy life in the company of other criminals, he would be far too corrupting. So what do governments do ? You refuse to recognise these problems, but again, that's your prerogative [see above].

All I am proposing is that such fascists would need to be jailed for life (that's not too much to ask, surely) and kept in complete isolation for the duration. The most obvious places seem to be somewhere well out in one of our many deserts: we really are spoilt for choice there. Perhaps, out of the government's humanitarian bent, there should be no fences (there may not need to be) but it would regrettable if some murdering and raping thug like Prakash was shot while obviously trying to escape.

Do the crime, do the time.

Thanks for the love and kisses but really, you've got the wrong bloke.

Joe

Hi Joe,

<<I'm (Joe) certainly not assuming the mantle of a judge,>> You did say "So clearly they would have to locked away for life" you went as far a nominating a couple of places "north of Oodnadatta or west of Betoota" That seem rather judgmental.

<<But if you (Paul) wish to defend him, no matter what he's done, that's your prerogative in a free society>> I don't wish to defend him, unlike the prosecutors on here, I would make a lousy defense lawyer. I will say no matter what Prakash is/has been proven guilty of, he like everyone else is entitled to a defense. In a free society you, like so many others, can express your 'lynch mob' mentality, but I believe in the rule of law, if we do not have a ordered judicial system then we have anarchy, Is that what you want?

<<I (Joe) most respectfully disagree with your championing of the fascist murderer Prakash as some sort of pseudo-left-wing poster-boy>> Absolute crap Joe, you are talking rubbish. There is nothing posted by Foxy or myself that would suggest that to be the case what so ever! I humbly and respectfully ask you to post evidence that we did, if not then shut the you know what up!

<<obviously Prakash can't be just allowed to enjoy life in the company of other criminals, he would be far too corrupting. So what do governments do? Obviously, they listen to you and build a prison out in the Simpson Desert, and make you the Commandant. Or they do what governments should do, and listen to experts in theses matters and take their advice. Are you an expert on these matters? Remember Rudolf Hess, he ended up in a one man spua max prison.

"Shot while escaping" Didn't the Nazi's use that line a lot? I can see guard Is Mise loading his trusty blunderbuss right now.

"Thanks for the love and kisses but really, you've got the wrong bloke" Oh well, can't win em' all. I hope you and your true love are happy together, we are!

Hi Paul,

Hmmmm ....... how long is an elastic band ? Some of your arguments seem a bit stretched :) [Yuk ! yuk ! Geddit ? 'Elastic band' ? 'Stretched' ? Brilliant.]

My points were:

* that fascist thugs like Prakash are, in my limited view, in something like a special category of prisoner: provided - as you rightly point out - that this bastard is found guilty of the most dreadful Nazi-like crimes, can he be locked up with other prisoners ? I'm respectfully suggesting: no.

* IF it is considered by a court that murderers and rapists like Prakash CAN'T be locked up with other prisoners, since the danger of his infecting them with his fascist ideology is too great, then where ?

* clearly mongrels like this would have to be held in confinement away from any other prisoners for life. Then why not in some very remote area ? Remote areas need economic boosting, don't they ? So why not Oodnadatta and/or Betoota ?

In many countries, people are shot while trying to escape, Russia and China for example. Nothing particularly 'Nazi' about it, so you can put that one aside, Paul.

You perhaps notice that, in none of the above, have I resorted to personal insults of you. If you have any argument at all, I respectfully suggest that you stick to the issues and avoid revealing your lack of any argument by sliding into insults.

But if you can't do that, no worries, keep going, I can take it :)

Joe

Hi Joe,
Starting from the bottom up. Where have I insulted you?

As for your argument, if what you see as necessary, is what is adopted by the Government, and we have had 'Supermax' prisons for incorrigible people like the 'backpacker' murderer Ivan Milat and a few others. Then providing we are not pulling the wings off the fly's, as I put it previously, then i have no problem. As for your suggested locations of north of Oodnadatta or west of Betoota. they may present logistical problems due to their own isolation.

As for my quip about Nazi's using the line "Shot while escaping" I would not hold up Russia and China as justification for such a crime.

Pual 1405
So Hitler should have been given a fair trial then(had he not killed himself)

My opinion is he should have been shot by firing squad as quickly as possible.

I think the same about this Prakash, he should be shot by firing squad, to show
those who wish to turn traitor what the penalty will be.

Also, a 70year old is quite capable of planting a bomb somewhere, Which means it will never be safe to release him, given
the record of successive parole boards, for years.
unless life means life it will never be safe to just keep him in prison until quite old.
Chances are when people forget, he will be let out because if his age and innocent people will have to once more die at his hand.

Firing squad is the only sure way to protect our society from him forever.
Put your sympathy with his victims, don't waste it on him.
Show some intestinal fortitude and end his reign of murderous terror.
Chances are he's a physcopath, like a lot of Isis leaders appear to be
with their unnecessary cruel acts.

Great post, I totally agree!

Paul,

" As for your suggested locations of north of Oodnadatta or west of Betoota. they may present logistical problems due to their own isolation"

The Army overcame the logistical problems of supporting the troops in Afghanistan, a prison out in the far desert country should prove no problem.

Such a prison would be isolated from the rest of the country, fly in, fly out only and all of the buildings to house the inmates could be flown in; I would suggest standard demountable school classrooms.

The guards, Infantry, on a 3 to 4 month rotation and no one to serve there twice in three years, just to stop/hinder any plans to help a prisoner.

Water in by pipeline and only small electric vehicles for local transport.

One of the problems with our current prisons is that they are conveniently placed in cities and close to roads and public transport, it's time to stop considering the convenience of prisoners. Prisoners who are a danger to society should be placed where they cannot possibly do any harm, that, or executed.

When are we going to wake up to ourselves, tell the bleeding hearts to go jump, & apply the death penalty to those who obviously have earned & deserve the death penalty?

Hi Is Mise,

The problems with such sorts of prisoners, who not only have committed the most vile crimes but have no remorse about them and are quite intent on influencing as many other people as possible, is that they would have to be jailed for life, AND they would have to be on complete isolation from each other and from anybody else.

Of course, some of my close colleagues on the pseudo-Left might disagree since, after all, these poor boys have had difficult upbringings, they are misunderstood by their mothers and have been led astray, they're all good boys really, and therefore they deserve both light sentences and another chance, and shouldn't be deprived of close contact with as many people as possible. Anyway it's the Murdoch press which has been hounding them, and what for ? For nothing ! But I respectfully beg to differ.

Putting that objection aside, what does any authority do with vile criminals who have to be jailed for life, in strict solitary confinement ? Where to put them ? Not in converted classrooms, Is Mise, but in single-accommodation corrugated iron sheds, with the basics: a bed, a tap with bore water for washing and drinking, and, well, not much else really. And somewhere out in the deserts . So why not Oodnadatta or Betoota, and as you say, fly-in, fly-out staff, under strict instructions (perhaps working in twos) never to speak to the criminals ?

Problem solved !

Cheers,

Joe