Another two Muslim teenagers intent on jihad nabbed by Victorian police, and the top cops are still chuntering on about 'deradicalisation' and the need for other Muslims to dob them in.

The Koran should be required reading for police, particular for their leaders, like A/C Burn, who is 'apparently' in charge of the anti-terror group. Deradicalisation in the face of the Islamic threat is pure fantasy and a complete and ignorant cop-out.

Yes, rather than 'deradicalisation' de-islamization might be more useful, although there's probably not much chance of that occurring either.
All we can hope is that members of our security agencies aren't as naive as they appear to be. PC prevents them from admitting that the Muslim community is an inexhaustible supply of wannabe jihadis.

Yes mac and we should deport all those damn Scotsmen and Irishmen: unAustralian the lot of them and look at the trouble they've caused in their own countries! You can't even understand them when they start jabbering away in that lingo of theirs!

Then we can start on the Poms! They're just waiting for a chance to rebuild that empire of theirs you know! They're never forgiven Australia for voting on becoming a republic, we shouldn't allow people to vote for things!

Seriously though, when was the last time you fellas were bothered to exercise that teeny bit of soggy stuff between your ears?

Craig Minns,

You're, ineptly, attempting a strawman argument, the issue is about a dangerous and totalitarian ideology. Defend Islam, if you can, and we'll see how much you really know about the ideology.

Actually mac, it's called reductio ad absurdum, although I must say it's hard to reduce something to an even greater absurdity than you lot seem to produce without even trying.

I have no need to defend Islam. I have several Muslim friends, I've shared my home with Muslim people and I would do so any time. Without exception they've been lovely, easygoing people without any axes to grind.

What a shame I can't say the same about you miserable buggers. Get yourself a life mac, it's obvious you've wasted the one you've had if you're so bloody desperate to play dog in the manger.

we have seen fundamentalist global warmers with egg all over their face but still digging in which shows that ideology is extremley difficult to change. Such statements as all religions are equal or Islam is peace just reveal the total ignorance of those making those statements. What they often mean is we hate Christianity and as such will allow ourselves to be total irrational.

WWJD runner?

Here's a clue: he was happy to spend his time and efforts to help people who needed it, regardless of their religion. He didn't judge people on faith, but on their behaviour. He was particularly focussed on helping people who other people despised.

He was also pretty clear about what he thought about people who behave like you do and it wasn't complimentary.

ttbn,
Sorry but the latest two kids arrested was in Sydney (Bankstown), but it well could have been Melbourne.

If, as estimated, about 20% of muslim hold extreme views then it is obviously going to get worse as the muslim population grows. The only counter to that is to stop allowing more muslims into Aus. It's the new arrivals that constantly 'refresh' all the old hatreds and alien cultural practices.

I agree that the deradicalisation programs are a waste of time and money as the kids are taught the hate and alien culture from the cradle. Remember the young mother that attended the muslim riots in 2012, with her baby in the pram holding the placard demanding beheadings. Those riots were because someone produced anti muslim video on the other side of the world.

People like Craig Minns try to play the alien aspects of Islam down but it is obvious to all that Islam is not compatable to our society. Its beyond time that our polys should admit they made a drastic mistake in allowing muslim immigration. That applies to others as well, such as those groups that practice underage marriage and FGM.

It is also evident that our polys are happy to allow our girls and women to be the sacrificial lambs for the allowance of alien cultures into our society. Any ordinary person would have stopped muslim immigration after the gang rapes in 2000. Yet only this week a refugee was found guilty of rape and did not get a jail sentence and a father, who had FGM performed on his daughter, got off with a suspended sentence. What fools we are!

WWJD runner?

Well Craig He would say ' I am the Way the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father but by Me'

did you forget that part. He also said in relation to prophets that all who came before me were thieves and robbers and all who come after me likewise.

Amazing how you know how I behave. If you can't understand the basics of Christianity you have no hope understanding Islam. Obviously that is why you resort to personal insult with nothing rational to say.

Useful Idiots

I watch how you behave runner, I don't need to guess. There is no love in your heart, there is nothing but bitterness and hate.

You're not a Christian, you've never shown any sign of living up to the values of Christ on this site. You even lack the courage to use your name, hiding behind the gutless use of a pseudonym so you don't have to stand behind your words.

You know the words of the bible, but you have no idea what they mean. I'm an atheist and I'm a better Christian than you'll ever be. Consider yourself judged and found wanting.

Spare a thought for the beautiful Australian children born into peace-loving Muslim families that are perpetually demonized by this farcical and diabolical media campaign, which seems to be allowed hallowed exception to the much debated 18C section of the RDA.

Ingongruous,

I do spare a thought for them, I ponder how they are going to grow up being aught that the Koran is the Law of God and cannot be broken and how they will fare if they wish to leave Islam.

' I'm an atheist and I'm a better Christian than you'll ever be. Consider yourself judged and found wanting.'

knowing I don't have your approval makes me a lot more secure than if I did Craig. To be judged by a fundie atheist is very amusing indeed. Suddenly you have found a moral base to judge by have you Craig. Amazingly rational.

I thought you'd enjoy that runner.

Is Mise, one of my Muslim friends is a former lecturer of mine, who went to Mecca for the Haj last year, for the third time.

You know what he lectured in? Go on guess...

Nope, sorry, it was statistical analysis and numerical methods. How long does it take for the whole pondering thing to become a problem?

I'd reckon quite a while ago in your case...

yeah well Craig as long as he does not follow the footsteps of Mohammed you and him can remain good friends. Try pondering on that but I guess you have already shown yourself happy to be ignorant of what does not suite your narrative.

Banjo,

The first to note my lousy geography. I did realise what I had done - after it was too late. Your 20% bad eggs is likely to be close to the mark: it's uncanny how the Pareto Principle works for most things.

Mac,

Getting rid of Islam, or reform of Islam would rid us of a lot of trouble, but thanks to the Koran, reform is out of bounds. Christianity enjoyed reformation because it is closely tied to democracy. The Muslims who might desire reform (if the actually know the real horrors of Islam) could not achieve it, because Islam is not just a religion, but a complete form of governance, controlled from the top.

ttbn, there are active moslem organisations that advocate a reformation
like Christianity had. However they do run with little publicity.
They have to be very careful a it would not take much for them to be killed.
I presume they are largely a word of mouth movement.
They will have to eventually "come out".

Ingongrous,

Any relation to incongruous?

How many Muslim families do you know who are "perpetually demonized", and how are they demonised? By whom are they demonised? Which "farcical and diabolical media campaign" are you referring to. This thread is about Australian authorities and their foolish belief that Islamic jihadists can be deradicalised. I'm happy to have a discussion unless you are trying to hijack the post for your own ends.

G'day, Bazz,

Yes. I've heard some Muslims talking about reform, but I have say that they cannot have read their Koran, like most Muslims. It's just not on for the reasons I gave above. Their best bet is to give Islam away altogether. As long as they don't make a big deal of it, their is very little chance of facing death for apostasy. No religion would be better than Islam - just calling Islam and likening it to any other religon is a travesty forced on probably decent people from birth.

Craig Minns,

Of course, your best friends are Muslims, that's apparently all you need to know about the ideology. What narcissistic nonsense.

mac, you're most welcome to cherry pick all the lines from the Quran you like, at least it'll give you something to do for a while.

Then you can happily spend the rest of your day being scared and miserable, since that seems to be what passes for happiness in your world.

I'll just get on with my day. This evening I'm having a lovely traditional chicken biryani cooked by young Malik, who rents one of my rooms, so that's something to look forward to. I believe his mate Uday is coming over as well. Uday isn't Muslim, he's from a Hindu background in India, while Malik's from Pakistan - Kashmir to be more accurate.

I'm sure there's more than enough for you mac, why don't you drop over?

Craig Minns

No doubt the German people who turned their heads away when
their elected military exterminator, Hilter, slaughtered, the Jews
would have been classed as nice kind, caring, family, people too.

The American settlers who set up farms and houses on Indian land
would have considered themselves,kind,christian, family, people too.
But they were all in favour of men Like General Custer and the American
cavalries slaughter of the Indian tribes. In fact General Custer was
a hero in the eyes of the New settlers.
The Indian families too, would have hated the new settlers, whilst at the same
time were no doubt loving,caring, kind people to their own families and old people.

Nice, doesnt count in human wars, and conflict, wars aren’t about intolerance
as taught in our universities. Wars are over bloodlines and control of the land
or territory.
You might have noticed Isis is fighting for territorial control in Iraq and now Syria
not so much for Islam (that is self delusion),as for the Sunni bloodline, but also for territorial male
control over women and thus the sunni bloodline. The holy war is
just an excuse, so they can commit slaughter and atrocities and still see
themselves as holy and good. nice people in fact.

Religions have used religion as an excuse to kill all throughout history,
The German people didnt have religion as an excuse,so they elected
Hitler and turned their faces away whilst quietly moving into to all the
empty houses left behind by the Jews who were quite prosperous
not to mention the cars,furniture,jewellery,clothes and cash.
Quietly took it all, but then said we didnt do it Hitler did, we are nice
kind,family people.

Craig M,

You are wise to have dined in a secular environment given that estimation that "about 20% of muslim hold extreme views (sic)" -- because if Malik had simply invited 4 Muslim friends then the stats say that one of them would have been an extremist -- and ya know, too much cumin in the chicken biryani and you're a gonner.
By the way how was the dialogue around the table? Did you toss that one around about ol' Adolph being elected by the people to kill Jews. I'm more aligned to the William L. Shirer and other's views that the punitive Treaty of Versailles, hyperinflation, mass unemployment, poverty and starvation had at least something to do with it.
PS. I'm going to try that chicken biryani.

Ingongrous,

Still around and off the topic, I see. Where's your answer to my questions?

Hi Ingongruous,
I keep the cumin under lock and key; he could be radicalised any time. I'm not stupid you know!

Muslims do pose a problem for politicians though: the pork-barrelling thing obviously has to be rethought for a start...

CHERFUL,

I'll bet that you flunked history at school.

Is Mise,

Perhaps you could explain which part of CHERFUL's 'history lesson' is incorrect?

Is Mise

It was in fact the Great Depression, which bankrupted Germany
shutting down all the industries in the Ruhr Valley in Germany
putting 6million Germans out of work, that set the Germans on
a course that would eventually lead to the Election of Hitler and the slaughter of
the Jews.

The years after the mass unemployment of German people by the
Great Depression, the German people turned on the Jews,
Groups of German men stood outside of Jewish shops and businesses
and allowed no customers to enter thus Only allowing people to buy off
German businesses. Look it up on historical sites, you'll find it.
I've even seen Television documentaries on it.
Also The Germans began sacking Jews from any jobs that were still available
and employing Germans. Even educated Jews who were teachers, lawyers, etc,were
put out of work and germans hired.

So you see, the persecution of the Jews was well under way by the German people before Hitler
was ever elected. When Hitler was eventually elected, he made laws ,he made the persecution of the Jews that was already under way legal.

Also they walled off one Jewish section, and thousands of Jews inside starved to death,
Meanwhile the German people passed happily by the enclosure everyday.

At school they focus, mainly on the evil Hitler being the cause of it all, they very seldom
talk about the Germans persecuting the Jews before Hitler came to power.

Mainly because they dont think deeply about it preferring to accept the evil dictator story.
The Americans made the same mistake again, with their evil dictator theories,
in Iraq with Suddam Hussein and now in Syria with President Assad.

Turns out Assad has a supportive tribe and army around him.
I'd say you are like millions of students who are taught the simplistic non thought out
version of history.
The idealogical versions.
Look up that period in history,in the years following the Great Depression in Germany,
you'll find what I've said about that period is true.

Hey CHERFUL,
What's interesting about the American Indians is that the government had already done a deal with Sitting Bull to move onto reservations in North Dakota (I think) and South Dakota but the government went back on the deal when gold was found in the Black Hills; anyway...

Regards the German WW2 history:

I accept your history lesson; but I don't think it's the whole story.
Now you assert that "the persecution of the Jews was well under way by the German people before Hitler was ever elected".
Ok. But the bigger question is WHY WAS THAT?
Why were the German people mad?

Now I'm not a real big history buff; and I certainly don't know all the facts about this topic and I'll also admit some of the websites and videos I watch are of a questionable conspiratorial nature; by questionable people, but here's the backstory as I understand it.

Firstly you have to go back to WWI.
The Germans were winning that war, and England was doing badly, and on the verge of surrender.
This is where the Balfour Declaration comes in.
The Jews / Zionists (whatever the preferred term) told England they could still win the war and that they would get the Americans involved in the war, if they would agree to creating a national homeland for the Jews in Palestine.
So the deal was done, US came into the war, Germans eventually lost the war; and then the German people faced overwhelming reparations after the war.
Now apparently the Germans had been good to the Jews prior to this betrayal, and they resented them for it.
Times were hard, (the depression as you mentioned) and the days of the Weimar Republic where you needed a wheelbarrow of money for a loaf of bread.
At the same time they saw the Jews living well in their country;
So the Germans were subjected to terrible hardship due to extremely harsh war reparations; and they resented the Jews for costing them the war and putting them into the hardship they were in.

That's why they were mad.

Cheerful,

Re: "...the German people turned on the Jews,
Groups of German men stood outside of Jewish shops and businesses
and allowed no customers to enter..."

You have omitted that these "German people" were devout members of the Nationalist Socialist German Workers'Party -- the Nazi Party, a minority party at the time that used violent street gangs to control all Germans -- not just those of the Jewish persuasion.

The analogy is like saying 'The Australian people supported the invasion and occupation of Iraq'

CM: when was the last time you fellas were bothered to exercise that teeny bit of soggy stuff between your ears?

They just did.

There is no such thing as de-radicalisation. At these De-radicalisation classes they just learn how to lay low until the right time.

CM: Get yourself a life mac,

Mac has a life, & I suspect he would like to keep it as it is without having his throat cut by some De-radical.

CHERFUL,

"I'll bet that you flunked history at school"

I'll amend the above to, I now know that you flunked history in school.

Hi Jayb,
yes, I'm sure that mac has a life, but if he's spending his time worrying about being attacked by a disaffected teenager who happens to be a Muslim then he's wasting it.

None of this is new, at its root is a fear of change.

CM: he's spending his time worrying about being attacked by a disaffected teenager who happens to be a Muslim then he's wasting it.

It's not the disaffected Teenager that I really worry about. It's what that disaffected teenaged who has undergone De-radicalisation grows up to be that does. There is no such animal as a de-radicalised moslems. They will just lay in wait.

I would take anything CHERFUL says with a grain of salt. Yes some of those things did happen, but not in general, even during the War. We all know she is an underground supporter of Islamic Terrorists.

I'm sorry Jayb, but fearmongering isn't an argument. You're repeating exactly the same sorts of vague prophecies of ruination that were spoken about Irish, Greek, Italian, Vietnamese and Chinese immigrants in times past. Only the names have changed.

It's a shame you're so terrified by shadows, but there's nobody who can do anything about that except you.

Craig Minns,

"at its root is a fear of change"

Exactly, the fear of Nazism, Communism, Fascism and Islamic theocracy are all entirely rational attitudes. You really don't now anything about Islam's history or contemporary Muslim majority countries, do you?

mac,
I get it, you're scared.

As far as Nazism and Fascism go though, they prospered because decent people were scared and they were prepared to allow people who promised them simple solutions to do things in their name they would never do themselves. Those decent people are now forever tarred with the same brush as those who committed the worst of atrocities in their name.

You old blokes should know better, but you're happy to "bravely wave the boys goodbye again", just so you can feel a little less scared of your own imaginations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnSA2EDPGpw

Show some leadership and some guts. It's what made this country great.

I asked you some time ago what you've done recently you're proud of. You never answered.

Not only the names have changed, the big change is the philosophy.
The ones that you mention, Craig, had a religious philosophy and a political one, but they were separate; Muslims have Islam which is an unwavering combination of politics and religion, there's the rub.

It makes no difference, Is Mise.

Political Islamists are driven by exactly the same motivations as political National Socialists and they prosper within their own cultural milieu for exactly the same reasons. They promise a golden future to people who feel the world is agin them and they wrap it up in flowery evocations of the glory of sacrifice that will be justified in some nebulous future.

The difference is that the German people were experts at modern warfare. They wrote the book on it and they had a whole modern economy to create their armies. Islamist populist rabble-rousers are no more than that, reliant on what they can beg borrow and steal and their influence will die as quickly as it began if potential recruits are not driven into their arms by those who should know better.

Look, I don't for a second disagree that the leadership of ISIS are mongrel dogs who should be put down as quickly and painlessly as possible, but panicking because a couple of damaged kids with nothing to lose, from a part of the world that's been kicked around for centuries, have given into the false promises of the glory of sacrifice is ridiculous.

As long as we have extremely high youth unemployment coupled with excessive high government and corporate wages you will have youth that can see themselves with no real future joining radical movements if only for psychological self preservation.
A group of socio economically deprived kids read of an $8,000 a week wage or see the local real estate guru drive past in his new BMW or they see a family relative die of some curable medical condition because they couldn't get them to a hospital in time of course they are going to feel deprived, disadvantaged and disillusioned.
Their minds are wide open to any suggestion that offers what they see as hope. If this means radicalization then so be it. After all is there anything else for them.
We should have realized from the progressive decay of aboriginal community life that the next logical step in the social degenerative function is radicalization.
If you are going to breed a population you have to provide the means to support that population otherwise they will take matters into their own hands.

Craig Minns

You are ignorant of Islam and its history, which explains your smugness and complacency and the ad hominem attacks. Or are you just a troll?

Whatever you say mac. Crawl back under that bed if you must, but make sure you check it for re...Muslims first. Can't be too careful, you know.

Come up with anything you're proud enough to share yet?

//You old blokes should know better, but you're happy to "bravely wave the boys goodbye again", just so you can feel a little less scared of your own imaginations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnSA2EDPGpw

Show some leadership and some guts. It's what made this country great.//

Or, at the very least, they should attempt to learn some basic statistics. It's not rocket science.

For I am, at heart, a timorous wee beastie. A lot of nerds are, although I don't mean to suggest that we can't be bold & fierce when roused. Never forget the words of House Tri-Lambda: Knowledge is Strength!

The fear of Islamic terrorism is real and valid, but quantitatively it is a good deal less concerning than UV radiation. If the old blokes had studied their maths a bit more, they'd be pushing for burqas for everybody rather than burqas for nobody: statistically, they've got way more chance of being killed by skin cancer than rabid Allah-botherers.

It's not just the sun you have to worry about. Kangaroos might look cute and cuddly (for a given value of 'cute and cuddly'), but they're a greater threat to your life and limb than Moslems. Maybe we should ban the roo?

Armchair Critic

Interesting read about the Balfour Declaration, I had heard of it but never
looked up what it was about before.
Another reason the German people may have had resentment towards the Jews as you say.

One of the existing historical accounts from a Roman commander in charge of one of the German towns in centuries before, noted, "that fights would break out in the town
between the Jews and the Germans, but it was never about religion, it was always over money. The Romans at the time would play the Jews and Germans off against each other with monetary jobs or rewards, thus creating hostility between them to stop them
banding together against the Romans.

So the competition between the Germans and the Jews goes back a long time.

I think in reality the Germans and the Jews tolerated each other very well overall until it literally became a matter of survival after the Great depression.

After world war 1, Germany was forced to pay for the damage they caused in the war
by Britain and its allies. This was basically a gesture to show that Germany was being
punished. In reality Britain and America were more afraid of Russian power in Europe
after the war and secretly bankrolled the German economy.

Germany was in fact totally propped up with American money. When the Great Depression Hit,
America pulled all the money back to America, leaving Germany in
a very desperate economic situation. The stage was then set for the slow meltdown
in Germany that lead to the slaughter of the Jews and Germany deciding to take back Poland which they regarded as having been theirs in earlier centuries of the
German Empire.

So we are all Islamaphobic !
Well, I wonder why ?

This nonsense about these poor disadvantaged youths seeing the
estate agents driving by in their BMWs !
Oh really !!

Mac, Craig is a "Useful Idiot" so there is no point discussing this
with him, he expects not to have to pay the Jizaz tax.
I hope he got that in writing, preferably in Arabic.

Toni says;
they should attempt to learn some basic statistics.

Oh yes, how many Buddhists in the Supermax ?
How many Christians were involved in the Brussels airport attack ?
How many Shintos were involved in the Paris attacks ?

Just possibly you might just notice a trend in these attacks ?
Oh, I see, its not the moderates.
They were all moderates yesterday !

Now you see why the moslems call them useful idiots.

Thanks for that Bazz, it's nice to be useful.

There are far too many "useless idiots" in the world.

TL,
I've previously pointed out the stats, but apparently mac has incontrovertible evidence that something bad might happen to someone somewhere and he's not going to rely on anything so flimsy as statistics to protect himself.

What he wants is a Muslim-proof fence.

Personally I think it's a great idea, fences work both ways. We could keep all the bunnies safe inside, with beds they can hide under and predigested ideas to chew on...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyJHL8GFaIs

Here's Wikipedia's list of terrorist acts in Australia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Australia

So what do we derive from this list?

Bazz: So we are all Islamophobic ! Well, I wonder why ?

Would it be because Islam is Infidelophobic to the extreme?

CM: There are far too many "useless idiots" in the world.

Of which you are obviously one.

CM: What he wants is a Muslim-proof fence.

Just going by the 10 seats Pauline is expected to pick up in the next Queensland Election, then extrapolate that across Australia. What does that tell you? A moslems proof fence is being increasingly demanded by more & more Australian people.

"What he wants is a Muslim-proof fence".
Do they sell those?

Here's a question.
Let's say I offered you a big bowl of skittles...
And I said "Two of these skittles will kill you"
Would you still take a handful?

Admittedly the statistical threat of violence posed by Muslims at the moment is small, but that is not the main point.
The main point is the potential for violence and terrorism that Islam poses,
The record in other countries is the evidence.

"Just going by the 10 seats Pauline is expected to pick up in the next Queensland Election, then extrapolate that across Australia. What does that tell you?"

There's a shortage of fish 'n' chip shops in those electorates?

Apropos of mention of Pauline Hanson, Newspoll has her following increased fourfold since the election. More bad news for the 'suppressives'.

Still no answer for me from the bloke who can't spell incongruous. Just more piss and wind.

Ingongruous: There's a shortage of fish 'n' chip shops in those electorates?

There will always be a need for Fish'n'Chip Shops. The same can't be said for moslems.

Is Mise: The main point is the potential for violence and terrorism that Islam poses, The record in other countries is the evidence.

Dead right it is.

What ever has happened to our regular Islamists, Arjay, Poirot, etc. Even my great friend Iftikhar? Maybe they are over fighting for the Caliphate?

Ah, that's more like it: the torches are burning and the pitchforks are being waved and all's right with the world...

Jayb,

Your "islamists" got the huff, folded their tents, and took off.

ttbn: Your "islamists" got the huff, folded their tents, and took off.

&, one would hope, they never be allowed to cross our Borders again. Oh joy! Oh joy!.

Armchair Critic wrote:

"The Jews / Zionists (whatever the preferred term) told England they could still win the war and that they would get the Americans involved in the war, if they would agree to creating a national homeland for the Jews in Palestine.
So the deal was done, US came into the war, Germans eventually lost the war; and then the German people faced overwhelming reparations after the war."

The above sounds straight from the Nazi stereotype of the all-powerful Jew. Exactly how could Jews bring the US into the war?

As far as "Jews / Zionists (whatever the preferred term)" that is also rubbish. All Jews are not Zionists, and some non-Jews are Zionists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism tells about Christian Zionists.

I appreciate that neither Craig Minns nor Toni Lavis seem subject to the hate and fear that seem to motivate others.

Hi David,
you might enjoy this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD3SkTyXzcE

David F, More so how could the Jews get the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbour ?
No, someone's dream time I think.

//http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyJHL8GFaIs//

Never heard that one before. Stayed till the end. Here's a song I like about fear:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLY0HNds_tE

//Here's a question.
Let's say I offered you a big bowl of skittles...
And I said "Two of these skittles will kill you"
Would you still take a handful?//

How big is big bowl of skittles? 2 over x could be anything. Also, how big is a handful? My hands are smaller than Andre the Giant's, but bigger than your mum's. What is the volume of Standard Handful, as measured in units of Skittles to the nearest whole Skittle? Is this unit accepted by the NMI?

Exercises in probability are difficult to solve when you're missing half the numbers. Maybe this is where the paranoiacs are going wrong: they're not counting all the numbers.

//The above sounds straight from the Nazi stereotype of the all-powerful Jew. Exactly how could Jews bring the US into the war?//

David f, what can I say about Armchair Critic but this?

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=7491&page=0#230716

//http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD3SkTyXzcE//

I dunno, they sound a bit Welsh to me....

If you're so keen to defend the Muslims Toni you should take two handfuls.
Tell me yes or no do you support this?
http://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/crime/home-hill-hostel-owner-stabbing-frenzy-lasted-hours/news-story/a8b50e417c9ed2e87aa12bbb4d41dd99

As for the other WW2 issue, I can't remember what video I saw this information on.
It could take hours of sifting through past videos to try and find it.
I've got an idea some of the info I'm thinking of can be found in Eustace Mullins 'Federal Reserve' videos on youtube.

I post a lot of things that people might find doubtful at first look but I almost always can provide a link to show that there's some basis for my criticism.

Until I find the video you can believe me or not believe me; I don't care.
But tell me does the timeline fit?
Were England losing the war before the US came into the war?
Was the Balfour declaration made after this?

Regards Pearl Harbor,
FDR provoked Japan into the attack on Pearl Harbor in order to get into the war.

Hey Toni,
About that song 'I am Australian'.

Did you actually read the lyrics?
I came from the dreamtime
From the dusty red soil plains
(that's me - my aboriginal heritage from my grandmother)
I came upon the prison ships
Bound down by iron chains
(thats me - my fathers line came on the third fleet)
I'm a daughter of a digger
Who sought the mother load
(that's me; well I'm a son - my great grandfather lead men into battle at Gallipoli)
I'm a child of the depression
(was your family here for that?)

I don't see anything in that song about WW2 migrants, putting Israel first or the right to constantly antagonist the people referred to in this song would make a person Australian.

They do sound a bit welsh though...

I'm thinking maybe you just heard the first few words of the chorus somewhere and thought geez that might be a good argument to use against them.

Huh?

We are one
But we are many
And from all the lands on earth we come

That's the part you heard right?

We'll share a dream
And sing with one voice
I am, you are, we are Australian

Emphasis "We'll share a dream; and sing with one voice"

Do you think the Muslims share that dream?
Will they sing with us with one voice?

What the hell do you think this whole thing is about??
OMG..

Ingongrous

It wasnt the non-German Jews the nazi party slaughtered, en masse though was it.
The Jews were the main target.
There were 10s of thousands of young German soldiers they must have
talked to their families about what was happening to the Jews. Probably
even bought home loot after they removed Jews from their homes,
After all they would know the houses were empty, just there for the taking.

We went to war with Iraq because we,are an American allie.

A lot of countries got pulled into World War 1 and world war2 as well,because of
long standing alliances. In other words it all depends on who you think will be
on your side when the next big territorial dust up happens.

And the winners do divide up territories after wars, especially all out world wars.
New boundaries are drawn up, often setting off other ,wars decades later, because of those very same boundaries. Say like the new boundaries or territory given to the Jews in Palestine. The dividing up of North and South Vietnam
Now the South China seas are in dispute between countries. Also Russia has just divided the Ukraine into 2territories.

.

The Japanese

In order to take the Islands to the North of Australia, had to
deal with the fact that there was a long standing American Airbase
in Singapore,

So it looks to me like they put together a plan to try to destroy and cripple as much of
American military power in a surprise attack on Pearl Harbour,, they then flew back and wiped out the planes on the ground at the American airbase in Singapore a few hours later.
this then cleared the way for them to take the Islands
and gave them a direct route down to Australia. It was a pretty daring
well,executed plan,by the Japanese.
,
Thinking they had knocked America out of the picture, they thought it would be an
easy task to take Australia because our men were all over
defending Britain.
Churchill didnt want Australia to call our troops back to defend Australia
because he thought if Britain fell, Australia would fall anyway, because at the time we were a small nation with not a whole heap of military weapons.
But the Australian Prime Minister did bring our troops home. The Japs attacked Pearl Harbour and the American airbase,. This so upset the Americans they entered into the war at last on Australias side. The American General MacArthur promising he would retake the American airbase back. from the Japanese. The Japanese had underestimated
the American ability to churn out endless supplies of the best military weapons.

Thats what saved Australia from the Japanese, the big American army force
based in North Queensland and most of all, their seemingly endless supply of weapons.
Our soldiers were valiant fighters but they just didnt have the manpower or the weapons to beat the Japanese. Anyone for sushi?

Hi AC,
Do I think that Moslem people will share the Australian dream?

I don't need to "think" that, they already are...

Now, all we have to do is work on the few miserable old buggers who've forgotten what that song means and try to stop them poisoning the minds of the young ones who haven't yet learnt.

CHERFUL,

It may come as a surprise to you and others that the Japanese never intended to invade Australia.
They never even gave the idea very serious consideration as there would have been no point in it.

Armchair Critic wrote: "Until I find the video you can believe me or not believe me; I don't care.
But tell me does the timeline fit?
Were England losing the war before the US came into the war?
Was the Balfour declaration made after this?"

That's pretty thin stuff. Apparently like others of your mind set who hate you casually blame the Jews for no other reason than your hate. Precisely how could Jews, a small minority in the US at that time without much power, get the US into WW1?

In this world there are prejudiced people who hate people as a group. They may hate Jews, Christians, Muslims or people of other religions or no religion. They may hate Americans, Chinese, Australians, Germans or people of other nationalities. They may hate Aborigines, Orientals, blacks, whites or people of other races. They may hate people belonging to a political party or having a particular ideology. They see every member of the group they hate as an evil individual getting together with others of their ilk to plot against all not belonging to their group.

I think that all people everywhere regardless of the group they are associated with are a mixture of conflicted impulses and human like the rest of us. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn said it much better than I can.

If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?
o The Gulag Archipelago (1973).

Why the Japanese never invaded Australia.?

A Report by a Japanese Marine Officer did have a part to play. That Officer has since written a book about his exploits in Northern Australia.

A Japanese Marine Company was landed near Burketown & made their way inland. He had 110 & men to start with. He made his way inland towards Mt. Isa. He got as far Gregory & by that stage he had lost all his men to Aboriginal attack. He said he never saw the people who had killed his men. He was alone but found messages & signs of which way to go to get back to the Coast. These led him back & he was picked up by the waiting Japanese Submarine & still he had not seen anyone.

On top of that I worked with a Coastwatcher in Ayr. He was stationed at Cromarty near Giru, just south of Townsville. He observed 110 Japanese Marines off loading from a Japanese Submarine in Bowling Green Bay. He rang the Headquarters & they dismissed him at first. He insisted so they sent a Negro Unit from Woodstock to deal with the problem. They lost one Soldier killed & several wounded. Two Japanese Marines were killed & several wounded but they were Captured & held in the Cutting at Jezzine Barracks in Townsville under great secrecy. My father-in-Law helped transport then down to Brisbane by train only traveling at night. He was a Prisoner of War Transport Guard in the Air Force during the WW2 stationed in Townsville.

So Intelligence gathering by the Japanese on the Mainland wasn't all that successful. Considering that the entire White Population was to be evacuated to behind the Brisbane Line leaving only the Aboriginals. Together with a scorched Earth Policy the Japanese decided it would be an impossible task. I'm sure there were many other landings at remote places we will never know about.

cont.

Mind you the Japanese submarines used to regularly re-water at Cape Upstart during the War. They never bothered the Locals some of which were my Uncles. They had BBQ's & shared their Whisky. When we were kids we would holiday at Cape Upstart & the place was littered with Japanese Whisky Bottles,& Death Adders by the score.

Hey david f,
Who said anything about hate?
What's with the hate coloured glasses; seriously?

Who do you assume I hate you?
Have I ever done anything to give you the impression I hate you?

In place of the thing which you somehow misinterpret as hate I'm left trying to understand what is wrong with you.
I honestly think some of the pro-Israel types have a mental disorder and I'm sorry for insulting you by saying it.
It's like you see a bogeyman waiting to kill you around every corner.

I can't make sense of it.

Maybe in all the years previous where we never had internet like we have now; and people now having access to a wealth of information in an instant; and you're stuck in this ideology of things before the internet where if a person knows just one thing critical of Israel - or even simply knows enough to question things then they must be a Jew hater.

I try to have patience with peoples screwed up mentality but I'm not altogether a patient person.
I try to be tolerant and understanding.

But lets be clear, if you have mental issues based on something that happened 70+ years ago, then firstly that's not my fault (no-one is responsible for things that happened before they were born)
- And it's not my problem (who owns the problem? Ummm... that would be you),

- And finally, I'm entitled to question anything in this world I choose.

Would you rather I hated you?
It's almost as if you want or need me to hate you to justify your messed up line of thought.
The problem is I don't but when you make false accusations you start to test my patience.

Here's the damn links.
I'll try to find some better ones later.
Don't make me out to be a liar.

Federal Reserve loaned $400mln for fund England for WW1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmgJE8hrL1Y

Balfour Declaration
http://youtu.be/AEpQw-6RIP0?t=5m30s

Armchair,

First I should point out that I don't necessarily agree with some of your opinions. However most people who are ignorant of history will either try to conceal it, or are so arrogant that they take refugee in ad hominem attacks, so naturally there will be accusations of Islamophobia, anti-Semitism or the use of pseudo-psychological jargon.

Dear Armchair Critic,

If you want to apply my last post to yourself feel free to do so.

"In his last interview before being executed for war crimes Tojo stated that:[8]

We never had enough troops to [invade Australia]. We had already far out-stretched our lines of communication. We did not have the armed strength or the supply facilities to mount such a terrific extension of our already over-strained and too thinly spread forces. We expected to occupy all New Guinea, to maintain Rabaul as a holding base, and to raid Northern Australia by air. But actual physical invasion—no, at no time."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_Japanese_invasion_of_Australia_during_World_War_II

Ok then, well if I'm going cop flak all the time, then we may as well just take a good look at all this stuff then.
Lets get right down to business then, all the gritty stuff.
Lets get to the conspiracy theories of all conspiracy theories then hey?

The whole New World Order, Illuminati, Satanism, Globalism, plus all the religions in one Conspiracy / Armageddon thing.
I dare anyone to actually watch it all.

Now I already said that I sometimes get information from questionable websites and questionable authors before we started arguing so lets get past that straight away.

Can I ask do you supporters of Israel actually know any of the following stuff?
How about I just lay out the stuff I found browsing the internet (years ago) and then you tell me what it means ok.
I won't judge or criticise - but you tell me.

Lets start here, where we left off.
World War I and the Balfour Declaration.
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/benjamin.htm

Click it up to 200% zoom, it reads easier.
The bible makes a point of 'Jews that are not Jews' - and DNA proves it so don't argue.

Now Albert Pike's 3 World Wars. Armageddon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m581aW5AH4M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dXD2H0m74g

So they will use Islam to help start WW3.
Now lets go in and look at Israel and US Policies.

Note the discussion to break up Iraq, and also Neocons.

Zionist Plan for the Middle East
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/pdf/The%20Zionist%20Plan%20for%20the%20Middle%20East.pdf
Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm (*Note Richard Perle Neocon & the Prince of Darkness)
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1438.htm
PNAC Document - Rebuilding Americas Defenses - Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century (*Neocons)
(Talks of creating a new Pearl Harbor prior to 9/11)
http://cryptome.org/rad.htm

General Wesley Clark 7 Wars in 5 Years - All planned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw

Now lets hear about a Muslim perspective. Malhama (Armageddon)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeQ_wfUBjws (old video - watch the whole thing or goto the 30minute mark)
http://www.imranhosein.org/news/522-the-malhama-armageddon-draws-closer.html (current info)

http://realitieswatch.com/the-globalists/

So where does all this Illuminati satanic stuff come from?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nU8iZYrwuY

You don't like me questioning things then fine.
Please explain.

There's something I left out of that picture. 9/11.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3HtKTSnJ48

Dear Armchair Critic,

Supporter of Israel? Who on this net has made any mention of Israel or its support besides you? I do not support Israel. I am for separation of religion and state and am for democracy. I think democracy necessitates religion or the lack of it being no business of government so I do not support Israel. I do not support Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or atheist nations. A person's beliefs are no business of a democratic government. However, I also object to the paranoid fantasies that Jews are responsible for the ills of the world. Some Jews as your references mention share those sick fantasies and conspiracy theories.

It is one of those sick fantasies that Jews pushed the US into WW1. They did not have the power to do it.

Whatever your fantasy is you will find something on the web supporting it.

Hi AC,
You're probably already aware of this, but just in case, I'll mention it anyway.

Look up "search engine optimisation" and check out the ways in which various different sites use techniques to try to "optimise" your searching experience on the web, by giving you the information that they think you want. They do this by examining your search and browsing history and applying algorithms that interact with the google and other search engine algorithms to serve you up ads and links and related pages that reflect the stuff you've been looking at previously. Some of them are extremely clever, and you might find things that at first blush aren't obviously linked, but inevitably are.

I never get links to conspiracy sites on my feeds, although, it is likely that now I have posted this there will be a few such links teed up as I browse this morning.

Do yourself a favour and for a month deliberately avoid any such sites and any such references on OLO or elsewhere. You'll find your web experience is much less cluttered.

Hi David f,

I wasn't the first one to mention Germany or the Jews; not that it's a crime.
I responded to CHERFULS short history lesson in good faith with information I'd come across in the past; and I even made a note prior to doing so that 'some of the websites and videos I watch are of a questionable nature'.

You and Toni Lavis we're the ones that challenged me and jumped aboard the 'hate' train with your accusations.
Go back and read the comments again if you don't believe me.

Toni's pretty much been angling to attack me any chance she gets since I joined the forum (and dared to question some aspects of the holocaust), and I expect she's more peeved than usual and looking to stir me up since I one-upped her last week, which was why she was being argumentative.
I'd apologise to her about the low-blow with the "I am Australian" thing if I though she was the type of person who would also apologise when she's also been unreasonable; but she isn't, and so I won't.
(My point there was that if she was the same as the person spoken about in the song, she wouldn't likely be attacking me on the issues she was... )

The point I was making to all the pro-Israel people that would attack me and call me names is that IF I really was a Jew hater, (and given all the stuff I have looked at and am aware of) I'd have no problems at all writing an almost endless stream of articles criticising Israel and it's hypocrisy if I chose to.

Just because I question things does not automatically make me a Jew hater in or of itself.

You challenged me to produce more info so I did.
As to the truth of some of the info I share; who knows?
But I'm not sure anyone else can say for sure that they know different.

Hey Jayb,
Awesome story about the WW2 Japanese soldiers landing in Australia.
Sounds like the kind of thing they could make into a movie, that I would enjoy.

Hey Craig Minns,
I honestly couldn't tell you how I come across some of the stuff I have.
The conspiracy type stuff, I mostly came across years ago, long before I ever joined OLO.

Sometimes you can look something up on Wikipedia and hours later you've clicked links to all these different related topics; you've got dozens of tabs open and you don't know how you get from one topic to another.
It used to happen regularly, not so much lately.
I mainly just listen to 'what really happened' radio show and the 'X22 report' on youtube these days, and I have more of an interest in geopolitical news.
I do browse the normal news, and check Alex Jones out occasionally and a few other subscribed youtube channels as well.

Youtube is mainly the culprit for strange 'recommended videos'.
I've seen almost everything from crop circles and cattle mutilations to the Michigan Dogman; and everything in between.
I don't specifically go hunting for the conspiratorial genre type stuff anymore, it's more 'been there, done that'.
I sometimes only remember certain tidbits of info when someone else brings up the topic.

Dear Armchair Critic,

You wrote: "The point I was making to all the pro-Israel people that would attack me and call me names is that IF I really was a Jew hater, (and given all the stuff I have looked at and am aware of) I'd have no problems at all writing an almost endless stream of articles criticising Israel and it's hypocrisy if I chose to."

You have been attacked. However, as far as I know none of the people who have attacked you are pro-Israel. You have been attacked for your uncritical acceptance of conspiratorial websites. You have been attacked for your equation of Jews with Israel. Israel is a country with mainly Jews. Some Jews support Israel. Others don't. You apparently are not a critical thinker.

The net is big. One conspiracy feeds on another conspiracy. You can find an endless stream of articles supporting just about anything. A little critical thinking is better than an endless stream of articles supporting each other.

Hi AC,
You'd be surprised how well some of the algorithms steer you around and where they gather information.

Those who are peddling clickbait are also getting better all the time at creating it. There is a whole science around placement on the screen, colours, sizes, flashing rates; the list of permutations is endless. In addition to cookies there are things like active pixels that take note of when you've lingered on a particular part of the screen for a certain amount of time, whether you come back to something after moving away, and so on. The web page is an enormously useful data gathering tool.

All of it is informed by behavioural science in the service of behavioural advertising. At its best it's incredibly clever and useful. At its worst it's a terrible weapon of mass distraction.

Hey David f,
Yes I'm aware of the SEO stuff.
I have some experience in web development.

The majority of the recent links I posted are facts.
You could take out the Benjamin Freedman and the 9/11 stuff and it still tells a story.
Those links just add to the existing narrative.

It's not the story that each of the smaller links tell; but the larger story of all the links combined.

I found all those youtube links separately over a broad period of time.
What do you think that big picture suggests?

Dear Armchair Critic,

If you want to believe Jews brought the US into WW1 you will believe it.

I think it is nonsense.

Goodbye

Hi David f,
Thanks for your reply and for allowing me to express an opinion without being discriminated against.

In the same way that I should be able to freely express my views on a particular topic you are most certainly entitled to disagree with those views, and/or present your own if you choose to.

Just so you know, I fought here for the my right to freely questions things.
I did not fight for the right to deliberately offend others, no matter how it is seen or portrayed to be.

I have no great interest in assigning blame or arguing over events of the past.
My real interest is in current and future events, and how they will affect our country and way of life.

All Wars are Bankers Wars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F29bNPN8FTE

Anyone who wants to look up the family connections between Rothschilds, Warburgs, Oppenheimers and Schiffs can do so here.
You may need to look individuals up on wikipedia to figure out parents and siblings but the connections are all there.
http://www.geni.com/people/Carola-Rothschild/6000000002764431487
http://www.geni.com/people/Rosa-Schiff/6000000011874574643

They were all Jewish bankers.
Max Warburg funded Hitler.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Warburg
Paul Warburg was Rothschilds right-hand man helping with the creation of the US Federal Reserve.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Warburg
Jacob Schiff funded the Russian revolution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Schiff

You asked how Jews could get the US into the war between England and Germany?
Pretty easy when its family and you control all nations banking.

All you have to do is threaten the President with deliberately crashing the economy leaving him to take the blame and he'll go along.
Just like they did with Roosevelt in 1933 when General Smedley Butler exposed the plan to overthrow the US goverment in a military coup.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

Who brought the US into the war ?
Do you think it might have something to do with Japan and Pearl Harbour ?

Perhaps Japan and Pearl Harbour had something to do with the US
entering the war ?
What do you think ?
Duuhhh

Don't 'Duuhhh' me thanks Bazz, for your own sake, Lol
coz I'll just 'Duuhhh' you back..

All you old timers have been fed crap for years.
Just don't blame me alright, blame the 'internet'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCollum_memo
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/pearl.php#axzz4OWg5leq3
(You might have to scroll down the page a little to get to the article.)
Happy Reading....

AC; That is all a very old story.
The Japanese had plans on SE Asia and Indonesia very early on because
of the oil they needed.
All the diplomatic pressure in the world would not have made them
attack the US if they did not fear the US intervening.
If the Japanese had not attacked the US, the US would not have entered the war.

Hey Bazz,
I honestly don't know the truth about any of the historical stuff I argue for or against; I wasn't there.

If someone wants to sell me one story, then I've got just as much right to examine any and all aspects of that story; to question it; to doubt it and to consider any and all other versions; not just 'the official one'.

Sometime I argue just for the right to question.
Sometimes I truly believe the official story is wrong.
Always I'm more concerned about the present than the past.

Now I don't really know what happened with Pearl Harbor.
But just by the front page headlines of two Hawaiian newspapers (shown in previous link) a week before the attack it seems to me the attack was in fact expected, at some level.

Now, from what I understand the US did in fact carry out these 8 things previous to the Japanese attack to draw Japan into a surprise attack. (which was their MO)

There's plenty more stuff (and plenty I haven't really looked into) that would lead one to think US knew what was going on, some articles I've read say the US had the Japanese naval codes JN-25 and were able to understand JN-25b immediately; other say JN-25b wasn't cracked till the following year.

But just the fact those articles were in the Hawaiian newspapers Nov 30, and that the Japanese changed the codes again Dec 4 should've told any reasonable thinking person something was up, and that an attack was very much expected.

Sorry for acting smart earlier....

From my reading on the subject the US did know that the Japanese were
up to something and of course Hawaii was an obvious target.
Malaya was also on the list and in fact was attacked before Pearl Harbour.

They lost track of the carrier and escorts but if I remember there
was an argument about their intentions.
Probably now impossible to get a definitive answer to these questions.

Hey Bazz,
I think if there was any definitive evidence than it might be found in the classified documents pertaining to decoded intelligence prior to the attack.
I'm not sure how much of this info was ever made public.

Let's get back on Subject.

What do you recon the chances of de-radicalising the likes of Steelie, Poirot, Minnsy, etc,. Not a chance in Hell.

There are a few others we haven't heard from for a while. Maybe they been killed in Syria, with any luck.