Joe, you misunderstand me, what I posted was what, given the terms of reference, the RC will be covering, as published, not (my) incredibly narrow vision, not my vision at all.

"Failings in the child protection and youth detention systems of the Government of the Northern Territory; etc etc"

Nowhere did I say the RC will be a total solution, it is not. The RC is a necessary requirement to deal with a "shock issue" which was brought to national prominence a few hours before hand by 'Four Corners'. Turnbull had little option, given the pubic outrage, other than to call a Royal Commission. Hopefully the finding will see an improvement in some areas, but I certainly don't expect it to be a total fix, not even just for the Northern Territory.
What should be noted is Royal Commissions can become deeper and wider that politicians at first expect.

Paul,

The politicians talk tough about stopping crime, but all that happens is that these teens rob houses, mug people, break into cars, and when arrested get released after after a couple of weeks. There is a balance between the rights of the teenagers and the rights of the man on the street.

Dylan is finding out the hard way that now that he is 18, the leniency he counted on is gone and he is looking at hard time.

Hi SM,

It's interesting to note the compassion for young multiple offenders. On another thread, there has been weighty debate about the rights of criminals such as Man Monis. There seemed to be broad agreement that committing crimes was one way to diminish one's rights.

At base, it may be that neglect, abuse, conditions such as FAS and ADHD, and the lack of any impulse restraint may drive many young people to commit the most vicious and pointless of crimes. It may be that mental health facilities should be utilised rather than jails, that some dreadfully affected people may need to be confined for life in such facilities, in order to protect others in society. Perhaps once the damage has been done very early, there are no happy solutions.

Nature - Nurture - Family Culture, each with its own dynamics. And then, along comes Ice.

Joe

I'm not sure what "rights" you blokes believe the bad guys negate through criminal activity. I believe people like Man Monis (if he was still alive), Dylan Voller and even George Pell have a couple of rights which I feel are reasonable. One is the right to a presumption of innocence until proven guilty, and secondly the right to a fair trial.
I know some of the rednecks from the rabid right find such niceties rather tiresome, and believe in summary justice, but I can't agree.

"committing crimes was one way to diminish one's rights." Joe, would that be the couple of rights above you are referring to? If not what rights do you believe are lost through committing crime.

Shadow said "these teens rob houses, mug people, break into cars, and when arrested get released after after a couple of weeks" In the case of Dylan Voller he must have a bad lawyer, because since the age of 11 he has spent more time in institutions than on the outside, so it would seem. You are a bit of a Rumpole Of The Bailey, maybe you should take over his brief!

Paul, we won't know what went wrong until after the Royal commission. You assume the government made certain mistakes. I wonder if inmates had more rights than guards.. If so, guards are always at risk of losing their temper. Our assumptions probably say more about our worldview than anything else.

Paul1405, "One is the right to a presumption of innocence until proven guilty, and secondly the right to a fair trial"

What about sticking to the subject of this thread? The offenders were convicted numerous times by courts that most people would ordinarily say are strongly sympathetic to juvenile offenders and very definitely to indigenous.

Gaol is the very last resort for serial, serious crimes. Where the offender really has to be separated from society for public safety and his own good.

There is no doubt whatsoever that the judges examined everything that was even remotely relevant and that includes any claimed sorry background, endless excuses of the defence counsel and some other special pleadings for indigenous that the court is obliged to weight heavily before arriving at a decision.

In summing up the judges have made comments about the offenders. Those comments were usually reported. Some have been linked to here. What rational person wouldn't accept the court rulings? According to the courts, these are very dangerous youths, one now an adult, who have been given every chance and then some more, but spat (literally!) in the face of those who tried to help them.

General comment
The ABC will be congratulating itself for provoking a Royal Commission. However the ABC's reporting was most unprofessional and it has earned and deserves public opprobrium for sensationalising on scant evidence and muck raking. The ABC is one of the worst for tabloid journalism where its political and current affairs reporting are concerned.