//So you have sympathetic feelings for runner's position now ?//

No.

//Would you be prepared to criticise, or even condemn, anybody who had even more violent and backward thoughts than runner ?//

Yes.

'Anybody who had even more violent and backward thoughts than runner' is not equivalent to 'all Muslims' - and yes, I know you didn't say that explicitly, Joe - and I will not accept that this is the case until somebody can prove it.

//I think runner was hinting at the superiority of democracy over the religious dictatorship that Qutb was supporting sixty years ago//

I think you're being far too generous to runner. He is forever banging the drum in favour of God's laws governing the society rather than man's - why do you think he is always railing so vehemently against secularism? The man clearly favours a Christian theocracy over a liberal democracy. Which is his right, because the Australian government has yet outlaw freedom of belief.

//and I think he is right//

Really? I thought you were an atheist? What kind of atheist supports a Christian theocracy?

Haven't we already covered the idea that the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend?

//Would you rather support runner or Qutb ?//

c) Neither of the above.

But nice attempt at a false dilemma ;)

Dear Hassie,

Thank You for your good wishes and -

Bless You for having been so generous to me over all these
many years that we've shared on this forum.

Politically, we're living in some very challenging times.

I trust that in this country of ours - the laws that we have
in place will continue to protect us, from the problems that
we see happening overseas. I would not want to live anywhere
else.

The French President has as good as such surrender to terrorist activity, saying, " We have to learn to live with terrorists!" If France is at war with opponents of French freedoms and values then it is legitimate to treat them as enemy and incarcerate them or, deport them to the French battle field.

A bit gutless, Toni.

And not every Christian is prepared to use any tactics to enforce a theocracy on everybody. Straw-man. How do you KNOW that runner thinks that way ? He's just a believer, not a jihadi.

In fact, I thought a necessary qualification to be a Bishop in the Anglican church was that you had to be an atheist, or at least have doubts about god's existence.

Anyway, the point is that it is possible to be a believer, and also a supporter of democracy. So if you support democracy, you and I can both walk with runner, on the basis of principle, not out of opportunism, I'll leave that to the pseudo-Left. But even you can walk and fart at the same time.

Joe

Rojama,

"...The nations that have the most peace, stability and freedom for its citizens are western representative democracies..."

Why indeed....take the country of freedom, America, for instance.

Each day its inhabitants murder around 25 of their fellow citizens with firearms - that's each day all over the Land of the Free.

Considering the US was also instrumental in invading and destabilising the region in the middle-east currently in turmoil, that's not all that scintillating a record.

Argumentum in extremis, Poirot :)

As the old cartoon had it, 'if you know of a better hole, go to it.'

Joe