rehctub,

"As for the 68% who don't work, this is just a hint Poirot, perhaps they are the ones out there demanding the cafes be open on Sundays so they, in their leisure time, can grab a coffee and a feed.

You are the one who said we have a 7 day week. Obviously with nearly 69% not working on weekends, we're somewhere in transition - and not even at a half-way mark.

"Lets face it, if the numbers were the other way there would be no customers because they would all be working. Tell me you're taking the piss will you."

How is that true?

Are you saying that from Monday to Friday that cafes have hardly any customers because the majority of the working population are...er..."working"?

If that were the case, they'd only open on the weekends.

This is getting a little like quantum physics - is it a wave or particle?...Lol!

Butch. I wasn't have a go at you, just joking, I make as many typos if not more than you do, you being one of the posters from the dark side I like to engaged with.

Now moving on. This claim that "Society demanded the change, knowing full well it would impact on certain within the workforce. Big business welcomed the changes with open arms as they knew it would effect small operators."

Party correct, I don't think there was any mass movement by shoppers to demand Sunday trading. More like Large shopping centers such as Westfields, and big retailers Coles and Woolworth lead the charge, looking to increase sales, pushed for not only Sunday trading, but extended hours in general, It has mostly been at the expense of the small convenience retailer. With car availability (have you ever noticed that the biggest part of a Westfields is the car park), and improved public transport, regional shopping centers have flourished and replaced local main street shops as peoples focal point for shopping. In my area the local strip has lost many retailers, small clothing stores, shoe shops. some butchers and F&V's banks, supermarkets etc. However they have been replaced with food outlets and coffee shops, people have more money to spend on these luxury items, $5 sandwich and $4 coffee.

I don't support the argument to cut Sunday penalty rates, as the businesses that have filled the void created by those that have fallen by the wayside, are in general doing well working within the present system of not having to compete (as yet) with the big volume retailers.
What is your take on the outrageous rents and charges imposed by big shopping centers on small tenants. up to 10 times per m sq than what they charge the big operators.

Paul, i'm not suggesting small coffee shops are suffering on Sundays, as many pay cash, or at least cash top ups, but it's the tax payer that is loosing out simply because few can see what the problem is.

How can any system be deemed fair when owners are making less, having taken all the risks, while staff are paid double.

As for rents, this is why so many centres today have more and more mini majors, because their rents are in the middle.

However, retail suffers from consumerism as few continue to buy a cabbage once it reaches the $7 mark.

rehctub,

"....but it's the tax payer that is loosing out simply because few can see what the problem is."

I ask again....why are you happy for the average taxpayer to "lose out" in order for some to utilise negative gearing" - if you're so concerned about the "tax payer"?

"How can any system be deemed fair when owners are making less, having taken all the risks, while staff are paid double"

One assumes that owners of cafes open on weekends because it's worth their while.

You appear to be saying that it should be worth more to them at the expense of the people they employ to make the profit in the first place.

What's all this about "risk taking"?

Is that worth more than the labour that makes it all possible?

Butch, the reason so many business operate "cash only" in food courts of large shopping centers and else where, is so they can fly under the radar, running an all cash business as far as income and expenditure is concerned, paying little if any, in the way of tax. These business are often run by absentee owners who are rarely on the premises, if ever, sometimes owning a chain of similar business. These owners rely on other family members, or a trusted friend to manage the business. They pay cash wages 7 days a week, Sunday is no different, and any change to penalty rates will have no effect on them. They operate cash only, not for the reason of survival, but to maximize profits through tax avoidance. Nothing at all to do with penalty rates. Conservative estimates put GST avoidance at $7 billion per year on its own.

Paul, i'm not referring to 'cash only' business, i'm referring to pretty much any small café/restaurant that is a stand alone brand, as most pay cash, or a combination of cash/ on the books on Sundays, and who can blame them. I recon I would if my award stated double time for Sundays.

Now this brings me to another question, why is it that retail has time and a half on Sundays, yet hospitality has double? Doesn't make sense to me.

AS for all the risks, the staff have their jobs at risk, not their homes and there in lies the fundamental difference.

Poirot, the last time I checked coffee shops and the likes did not provide affordable housing. But by all means keep presenting your arguments but may I suggest you compare apples with apples.

Labor has pretty much ruled out accepting the FWC's recommendation, which pretty much suggests they wont get too many in these sectors voting for them.