P,

The point is that many people either go bankrupt or don't start a business. Either that they use family members or only trade at peak times.

For shops that depend on passing trade, not working on Sundays is not an option, for others they close.

Shadow, I would go one step further in suggesting that coffee shops that are branded are the ones hurting the most as they usually have their registers locked in to head office, whereas the little guys usually pay cash. Sadly, it is the only way they survive.

However, the real issue is not so much the coffee shop, as their cost of goods is extremely low, its the restaurants that are feeling the pinch most as they not only have higher food costs, but also wait tables and have more crockery and cutlery to clean, all at double time rates on a Sunday.

So Poirot, to answer your question, cash is king and always will be as long as big brother keeps sticking his nose in where it doesn't belong.

Good for the worker because many retain some of their welfare payments.

Good for the owner because they get paid normal rates, but bad for the tax payer but hey, as I have always said, for every action there is a reaction, and cash wages is one such reaction.

Now for the benefit of you and Paul. Go to your local coffee shop on a Sunday and ask the owner about penalty rates and whether they affect his/her business.

You guys bang on about business confidence, look no further than labor for your answer because even if the FWC decides to reduce Sunday rates, labor wont ware it.

".....as long as big brother keeps sticking his nose in where it doesn't belong."

rehctub,...aren't you the one who applauds Big Brother "sticking his nose in" and making legislation so that you can negatively gear?

But you're not so keen of big brother enacting legislation to pay the workers more on weekends.

"Now for the benefit of you and Paul. Go to your local coffee shop on a Sunday and ask the owner about penalty rates and whether they affect his/her business."

Yes, and to SM also...my point still stands. If you decide to invest in the sort of business that attracts penalty rates, wouldn't you at least have done your homework and factored that in?

If you were any way competent, you would know what you're up for after diligently researching all aspects of your potential investment.

Just thinking, SM and rehctub,

We've lived in our small coastal city for over 30 years.

I've been trying to think of a cafe in the city centre which has closed...there maybe one or two, but all the main ones have continued to trade for that thirty years...and I'd say there's been a three-fold increase in both cafes and restaurants in our city since Oz society began to look at weekend trade as the norm.

And we're not a particularly "touristy" city - more a major market town and port.

Of all business that I note, cafes and restaurants tend to be the most resilient around my district.

Why is that?

Too right Poirot, and perhaps if we ever see the day that cash in outlawed, this may change, but until then, if one can see more goods on a Sunday, and pay cash wages so the owners cut is the same % as usual, then they would still be a sound investment, for the owner, not the tax payer as a whole.

BTW, your comparison over my big brother statement is pretty poor, because we are talking about laws (NG) that have been in since the 80's, and Julia Gillards decision to increase penalty rates for Sundays in the hospitality and tourism industries, this despite the fact that many who worked these shifts actually enjoyed them and had hours that better suited their family and recreational habits. But big brother decided that these two consenting adults were incapable of making their own decisions. The rest is history.

I had to laugh at Bill Shortens NON ANSWER on the topic when challenged by the sky presenter about supporting the FWC outcome. He said it was a hypothetical question. What a spineless wimp.

So guys, if you want whats fair for the tax payer, I suggest you support the removal of these ridiculous Sunday rates, otherwise you need to accept that your much hated cash will remain king.

butcher,

"I had to laugh at Bill Shortens NON ANSWER on the topic when challenged by the sky presenter about supporting the FWC outcome. He said it was a hypothetical question. What a spineless wimp."

That's rich!

Note that last night Magnificent Mal shrank from appearing at a people's forum, hosted by Sky News, with Bill - opting instead to have a waffle with Leigh Sales on the 7.30 Report...(which, hilariously, didn't go as well as he'd hoped)

5 minutes into Turnbull 7.30 interview, he said "Jobs"14 times..."Growth" 11 times...and "Jobs and growth" 3 times.

Pathetic...

"BTW, your comparison over my big brother statement is pretty poor, because we are talking about laws (NG) that have been in since the 80's..."

Well "Wackydoo!...however, I'm talking about "principle" here. Why do you want big brother to interfere in the one case, but criticise its interference in another?

"A penalty rate for Sunday work was first implemented in Australia for working “unsocial” hours in 1919. The 1947 “Weekend Penalty Rates Case” expanded penalty rates to Saturdays, while Sundays were set at a rate of double time...."

"Myth 1: Given extended trading hours, it’s no longer abnormal for people to work weekends.

Most employees still do not work unsocial hours. According to the Australian Work and Life Index, 38% of workers work unsocial hours; only 32.2% of workers work weekends and 18.9% of workers work evenings after 9pm regularly. These figures include the 13.1% of workers who work both evenings and weekends regularly."

http://theconversation.com/myths-about-penalty-rates-and-those-who-rely-on-them-49947

(and for the hundredth time, could you at least check your woeful spelling, at least for thread headers, before you press "submit". Here we have a thread header containing this: "Rediculous Penilty"...obviously Graham doesn't care - and it's embarrassing in headers)