Hi John Big Mac,

I moved with my wife and kids over to New Zealand back in 1969 for a couple of years, and worked with (and my wife and kids mixed with) Maoris and Samoans, Cook Islanders and Niueans and Tongans. The difference was striking - Polynesians seemed to have a completely different life ethic, they worked hard, partied hard and lived uproariously, while our experiences of Aboriginal people were quite different.

The only way I could explain the differences back then revolved around the notion that in one type of society, people put in a hell of a lot and got a hell of a lot back. In another type of society, people conserved energy, put little in and got little back.

Later I tried to explain the differences in terms of input-output - in one type of society, people managed by putting in and taking out a great deal of energy; in another type of society, people put in very little and got back very little, but expended very little energy to do it: so either a high input-high output society; or a low input-low output society.

I suppose both types of economy or society worked, but it did seem that more was sort of spun off from the high-energy model, more LIFE, more enthusiasm, more uproarious (that's the only word I can think of) and creative living. In one sort of society, people got by; in another, they almost exploded with energy, life, enjoyment, noise, fun.

Coming back to SA, those impressions were reinforced, much as I didn't want to admit it. So we thought that somehow that Polynesian ethic could be replicated here. There's forty years down the drain :) Such is life.

Still, my wife would be happy to know that there are forty thousand Indigenous graduates now, that's what she worked for, and another forty by the end of the next decade, probably. It's a start. So it was still worth it.

Cheers,

Joe

Hi Joe,

What my partner puts the success of her people down to is social cohesion. The Maori have never thought of themselves as inferior to the Pakeha, always believing in their equality with others, despite many setbacks at the hands of the European. Respect plays an important part in Maori culture, respect for elders, kaumatua, respect for your iwi, tribe, respect for whanau, family, and helping family where ever possible is of paramount importance.
The Marae plays an extremely import part in Maori life, a place to gather and carry on the tribal cultural traditions of language and protocols. No meeting ever goes ahead until the whakapapa, genealogy, has been observed. The interaction and support given by Maori to each other, despite often their meager resources, is tremendous at times. of course respect for oneself goes without saying.
On the other side of the coin, my partner doesn't like watching that old classic Kiwi movie, 'Once Were Warriors', cuts too close to the bone, too close to the truth she says, in too many cases of her urbanized, disadvantaged, brothers and sisters.

Paul405, "On the other side of the coin, my partner doesn't like watching that old classic Kiwi movie, 'Once Were Warriors', cuts too close to the bone, too close to the truth she says, in too many cases of her urbanized, disadvantaged, brothers and sisters"

A movie with strong themes and well worth watching.

You should be aware though that what your partner and you are saying and many would support you both, is that the very narrow feminist 'take' and approach to DV in Australia, as exemplified by the example of Rosie Batty (and now a strategically 'feminist' general), is simplistic, poorly conceived and will not help women by reducing DV.

Even the mantra 'there is no excuse for DV' has warts on it, excluding the possibility and examination of the contribution of any other factors outside of being male.

I believe that violence needs to be subjected to study in the broad and by independent researchers. Of course there may be socioeconomic factors at work, drugs and alcohol too. Political correctness also militates against identifying causes and providing needed counselling assistance. It is simply 'not on' to identify indigenous as a target group for help. That could be discrimination.

However feminist PC also holds that because men are the offenders they should be controlled, punished and directed to do better, and excluded from services and support as (part-)atonement for their original sin of 'patriarchy'. As an aside, is it mere coincidence that so many feminists were raised by their mums as Roman Catholics.

In politics, statesmen/women are in very short supply unfortunately. That is not being helped by cheap 'Gotcha' journalism and political populism.

Paul,

On the fact that the Maori do not feel inferior; an old New Zealander mate of mine used to tell the story of an American Officer, in WWII, who complained to him that he couldn't get to first base with the local Maori girls. They'd talk to him and were friendly but would never go on a date.
My mate told him the brutal truth "You're white, so that makes you inferior".

Is Mise, my partner has told me that back in the 1960's growing up, her parents were very strict. When "T" aged about 18, and her "adopted" sister started to attend country dances, about once a month. mum would have uncle come in his old car take them there and pick them up at 11pm and bring them home. Mum laid down the law, with a strict warning, no going outside, and certainly no alcohol or cigarettes. And "T"stuck to those rules, otherwise mum and dad would find out, and no more dances. Mum and dad used to go sometimes themselves , uncles made up the band.

Hi Paul,

Earlier, you noted,

" Respect plays an important part in Maori culture, respect for elders, kaumatua, respect for your iwi, tribe, respect for whanau, family, and helping family where ever possible is of paramount importance.
"The Marae plays an extremely import part in Maori life, a place to gather and carry on the tribal cultural traditions of language and protocols. No meeting ever goes ahead until the whakapapa, genealogy, has been observed."

In a host of ways, Maori economy and society were and are very different from Aboriginal economy and society: that huge difference of cultivation versus hunting-gathering, for a start; the single language versus five hundred languages, for another. Cultivator societies seem to require or create elaborate systems of regulation and control, hierarchies, priesthoods, fixed and fortified localities, much more highly organised defence of whenua/country, etc. - factors which were and are now much less likely to be present in many Aboriginal societies, simply because they were unnecessary. [Discuss]

In fact, it's probably very misleading to lump both Maori and Aboriginal societies under the same term of 'Indigenous' without some further differentiation.

On the other hand, Maori and Australian Indigenous participation at universities is currently very similar, with comparable numbers of students and graduates - although Australian numbers are growing much faster (8%) than those for New Zealand (2%). And possibly Australian Indigenous people have urbanised more than Maori people, and are less likely to depend on their land ?

Joe