In my opinion - all children should be entitled to
a public education if they are living in a country.
It is not the children's fault that their parents
took them somewhere illegally. Education should
be free while the children are in the country.
Children deserve an education.

Your thoughts please?

Haven't they been locked up in detention long enough already?

The original meaning of 'education' comes from the Latin 'educere': "bring out, lead forth", or "draw out or unfold the powers of the mind".

But the reality is that schools, and public-schools especially, indoctrinate children, pushing into them what was not there before, in order to mould them to be socially-docile and efficient cog-wheels in the modern "work-force". Well at least in Australia it is not as bad as in other countries where schools try to mould children into killing-machines and cannon-fodder.

Schools are not meant to help children - they are meant to perpetuate the society that operates them.

Those children are not likely to remain here, to be Australian and take part in the Australian work-force, they suffered enough already, so please spare them and just let them be!

I thought after 1200 or so Rudd/Gillards drownings, sending out invitations is not a good idea.

//Schools are not meant to help children - they are meant to perpetuate the society that operates them.//

Too bloody right, mate. When did public education ever benefit individuals or societies? We should be sending the little blighters down coal mines and up chimneys. It's good for the kids and it's good for us (at least those of us who own coal mines or chimney sweeping businesses).

//I thought after 1200 or so Rudd/Gillards drownings, sending out invitations is not a good idea.//

Luke 18:15-16

Toni,

This has gotta stop!!
I find myself agreeing with you again.

r u suggesting Toni that we bring Jesus to the kids. What a great idea.

Of course they should have an education if they are living here Foxy. Those kids need a good education even more than those born here, given the poor start in life most of them have had.

Yuyutsu, I suppose you learnt to read and write at home then? I always feel sorry for home-schooled children because they don't have the same social opportunities as other children. And if they are taught by their parents then they are prisoner to an even narrower point of view.

//r u suggesting Toni that we bring Jesus to the kids.//

Not so much, runner. Teach them the three basic R's - reading, reasoning and 'rithmetic [sic], and I reckon you're doing OK.

A bit of science never hurt anybody but it's not as important as the basics. History and geography fall into the same boat: it's nice to know where you are and where you came from, but it's not as important as reading because you can learn the former with the latter but not vice-versa. Some higher mathematics than arithmetic is also good: geometry and algebra at least. Oh, and music and languages. Which doesn't leave time for art. How do primary school teachers manage?

Religion is hard bugger to teach because even the teachers don't really know the answers. Only Gods knows the answers in Religion classes but they're ineffable (no, runner, I'm not having a go. And no, 'ineffable' isn't a rude word even if it sounds like one. Look it up.)

Dear Suse,

<<Yuyutsu, I suppose you learnt to read and write at home then?>>

Right so. I was sick that day with a fever so I stayed in bed and didn't go to kindi. I had a book with songs that I knew, so I matched the lyrics with the print and when my father arrived home I told him: "Dad, I can read". He didn't believe me, so I said "try me". He gave me a book and to his astonishment I just read fluently through it.

<<I always feel sorry for home-schooled children because they don't have the same social opportunities as other children.>>

But I did go to school. I was beaten and stoned there daily by the other kids (oh, how thankful must I be for this social opportunity) and was bored to death during the lessons, but I kept gallantly going there as required by law in order to save my parents from jail. True, after school I would read all the encyclopaedias, constantly asked my parents for more books and had my father explain to me all about powers (exponents), non-decimal arithmetic and such, while my mother would explain about chemistry. How narrow indeed...

Foxy, without preaching the virtues of religion, there are a plethora of social contexts in all religious manifests that would find humanity living in peace justice and harmony, but we discount many of them. Regarding your question, this one sums it up for me:

(Deuteronomy 24:16)--"Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin."

Children dragged along with illegal aliens should receive all the rights that any child born here has. In a perfect world children should not be separated from their mothers and fathers, but children should not be in the detention centres that their illegal entrant parents are put in while awaiting adjudication on their status. During WWII a large proportion of the children of England’s major cities were billeted in the country side to keep them safe from the bombing. I would employ the same tactic for children of illegal aliens.

When we visit the sins of the father on the children we end up with same doctrine employed by the NAZI’s. When Germany invaded Poland and then Russia there was no initial directive to annihilate the Jewish citizens of those nations. But within a year the first directives came from Himmler to murder Jewish civilians under the guise of anti partisan actions. Within months of this directive Himmler decreed that all Jews, including children and infants should be murdered so as not to burden future Germanic generations with a generation of avengers.........Children are innocents.

Suseonline>> And if they are taught by their parents then they are prisoner to an even narrower point of view.<<

Suse, in this statement you have encapsulated the primary flaw in home schooling, the lack of socialisation and the more than possible entrenchment of a myopic view of life.

No, they should not, seeing they shouldn't be here in the first place; and, thanks to Tony Abbott, there will not be any more of the brats and their bludging parents to get their noses in the welfare trough they never contributed to. Even the ALP has at last got the message on that one, so the darling of the Left, Turnbull would look pretty damn silly if he went back to the Rudd/Gillard days that the pathetic bleeding-heart do-gooders actually believe he will.

Our governments have signed agreements to help
these people so they are obligated to do so
whilst these people are in our country unless
we renege on our agreements altogether.

Dear Sonofgloin,

To summarise what you wrote, "parents are bad, society is good".

I presume that the parents are "sinful" because they wanted to live in a better continent and also because they brought along their children so they can enjoy freedom and prosperity here, a continent which you call yours because your forefathers have conquered and taken it by force 240 years ago.

Still you are willing to accept those children provided they are indoctrinated in your ways: Never occurred to you that the villains are actually the society and those who claim to represent it?

Foxy,
The question is academic for Australia, as we don't have a problem with 'illegals', thanks to Abbott and Morisson. Except for a few leftovers from Rudd and Gillard.

You had best be asking the Europeans. The parents should have considered how they expect to provide for their kids before they left to impose themselves on others. Not fair to expect others to provide for them.

Any way that is Europe's problem. We solved the problem here.

Dear Banjo,

Actually the question is very relevant.

We do have a large problem in this country.
The larger numbers arriving by plane outnumbered
the boat people.

According to records illegals make up a far
larger percentage of people than did the boat
people. They come in by plane, as workers,
tourists who overstay, back-packers and family
members of residents, and the list goes on.

And until the status of people's claims are assessed
people and their children are detained in various places.
Should their children receive an education is therefore
very relevant.

Toni,

Well, it sounds a lot less rude than "effable". Like "ept", "gruntled" or "couth", I don't quite know what "effable" could mean.

I suppose there could be some children of some illegal immigrants here in Australia, perhaps from PNG across the Strait. But it wouldn't be up to any school, or Ed. Dept. to check out the status of children as they enrol: any kid who could show evidence that they were old enough to start would be enrolled, surely ?

Of course any such children should get a full education. Their rights to an education surely Trump any rights by any state authority to deny them one.

Joe

Yuyutsu>> To summarise what you wrote, "parents are bad, society is good".<<

Yuyutsu, I can’t see where you got that abridged version from what I wrote. If my words portrayed that to you it was not my intention or premise.

Like the tone of all scriptures written by a society thousands of years ago the language is unambiguous and blunt. I honestly would have thought that you could distil the meaning to encompass its passage into our modern society.
Just as the scripture recounts “if your eye offends you, pluck it out”, there is a literal inconsistency with practical application, but the core of the message is still valid.

What I meant to convey by “the sins of the father” quote was that children should not be held accountable for the acts of their parents. A concept written into the Judeo Christian doctrines thousands of years ago. So if the parents break the law by entering a country illegally, the children should not be held accountable. If the parents are held in detention, the children should not. They should be free to associate and cared for in that society until their parent’s status is resolved.

“Give me the child until he is seven and I will give you the man” That was the Jesuit motto, alleged to be attributed to their founder Francis Xavier. Children are ultimately malleable. Between nature and nurture, nurture has more tenure, unless the character is that of a sociopath. So to take away the freedom of association of a child because of the illegal actions of the parents is counterproductive to that child’s view of the society.

Yuyutsu>>, a continent which you call yours because your forefathers have conquered and taken it by force 240 years ago.<<

Take into account that the society you speak of sent their own six year old children to toil down coal mines back in the UK. The societal values were flawed and their attitude towards all indigenous populations was exploitive and heinous. How you can place that disreputable argument at my feet escapes me. It is a perfect example of placing “the sins of the father” on the offspring. Except you have spread it through the generations to lay it on me.

There are enough illegal immigrants living in
Australia to fill a large regional city and
nearly all of these 58,400 people arrive by
plane.

According to government records there are 13 times
more illegal immigrants than there are asylum seekers in
detention who have arrived by boat.

58, 400 and rising illegal immigrants in Australia
have arrived by plane.

The OP seems to be inventing a problem, but why?

Another twisted agenda on behalf of some astroturfing NGO that is trying to siphon $$ from that bucket of money government has extracted from workers?

Fox,
You are forever demanding that others provide evidence, so what about you do now the same?

Foxy,
Comom, that is a furphy and you know it.

The vast majority of the 'illegals' as you call them are overstaying tourists who provide for themselves. Any that arrive without valid visa are detained at the airport and are sent back on the first available flight. The overstaying tourists still spend their own money while here, backpackers the same. Family members of existing immigrants are sponsored by their families.

Few, if any, of the plane arrivals have kids that we have to provide for.

So we do not have a problem now with 'illegals'

Some astroturfing NGO has a highly profitable (for them!) solution to a non-existing problem.

Here we go, strap yourselves in folks, because the seeds from the Rudd era are beginning to surface, and its just the beginning.

What a pity such people can come in, make such a mess, then receive their 'set for life' handouts with no accountability WHAT SO EVER.

Shame on him and all those who offered their continued unconditional support for this fool. These poor kids are now either going to go without education, or be ridiculed for much of their lives all because of one persons incompetence and the incompetence of his loyal puppets.

Overstayers are being employed in this country by corrupt employers. as long as that continues overstaying will be rife. England has a gigantic overstay problem as well.
Overstay is effecting everybody in this country.

579,
"Overstayers are a problem"?

How come, most overstayers are simply tourists who decide to see a bit more of Aus or have under estimated the time it takes to see what they want. Most only stay an extra week or so and pay their way. It is good for the tourist industry. Generally no penalties are imposed.

Long term overstayers are not that many as they would need to arrange false identity documents. I do not know how or who does that, do you?

More info please.

the main reason so called overstayers are employed is because wages and conditions are becoming unaffordable to small business, our largest employers. In fact, if all SB paid the correct amount in wages and conditions many would simply fold.

This demand for cutting wages is driven by consumers unwillingness to pay the price for such generous conditions such as ridiculous penalty rates in certain sector, as consumers have demanded the seven day society but are reluctant to pay for the privilege.

According to the Adelaide Advertiser, The Age,
The Herald Sun, the Sydney Morning Herald, the
Courier Mail, Wikipedia and the Immigration Department
report, "Migration Trends 2012-2013" there at the last
count over 62,000 illegals in this country. This is not
a furphy - and even though some posters like Banjo
don't believe that - the facts don't change that there
are 13 times more illegal immigrants then there are
asylum seekers in detention. Peter Dutton is determined
to crack down on them. The problem exists and no amount
of denial or narrow-mindedness is going to change that.
We've been through this all before. Mr Abbott may have
stopped the boats - they come by plane instead. And by
boat they're going to Europe.

"Should children of illegal immigrants be entitled to a public education?"

Yes...

and in Australia they get it. Next problem please.

I would be greatly surprised if there was no penalty for overstay. It is illegal and you will find there is a daily amount to be paid for overstay.
Employers are not exempt in overstay, cash and no tax. What do they need ID for.
To say they like the place and just spend more money is somewhat nieve.
If they stay long enough and go out broke the taxpayer pays their deportation, with a stamp to say don,t come back.

Do they really?

Are you sure about that?

579,
I do not think that those that over stay their visa by a short time would have to pay a penalty or if so only a token amount because they have already paid for their visa. It is in our interests to encourage them to return again and to tell others of their good time here.

This would account for the vast majority of over stayers.

One needs ID for most every thing these days, you can't even open a bank account without a tax file number and cards are used every where so how do you get one. Any longer term illegal resident would need fake docs and then how long before immigration comes knocking on your door or you are ripped off by other criminals. Not as easy as you make out. You have to contact seedy characters just to find out where to get fake docs and they will sell you out if to their advantage.

They have to have paid for a return ticket before coming here on most visas so that is not a problem.

So I ask again, where is the problem with over stayers, most only over stay a short while and continue to spend their own money on whatever tourists do.

Foxy,
You continue to pretend that over staying visitors are migrants, they are mostly just tourists. Do you regard yourself as a criminal if you are late in paying your council rates. Dutton may crack down on longer term over stayers and I hope he does.

Hi Foxy and Banjo,

Overstayers tend to be tourists and/or backpackers. Short-termers. [Does anyone else have enormous trouble with fat fingers ?!] Kids in school are a longer-term proposition.

Backpackers with children should be allowed to enrol their kids for the duration of their stay. How hard would that be ?

Joe

No its not the children's fault, but it's not the taxpayers fault either. So I say no...

Or alternatively I say yes, then hold the kids until the parents arrive to pick them up then put them all in detention for being here illegally.

In detention, I'd agree they should have a schoolteacher of sorts for kids.

We're told by the Immigration Department and other
sources that 1 in 10 illegals are from China.
The US, Malaysia and Britain are also big over-stayers.
Of course there are many on tourist visas but there
are also many foreign students who stay on after their
studies are finished and move out into the Community.

What new policies the government will come up with to
deal with this problem we shall have to wait and see.

NGOs, lawyers and other bottom feeders make zilch out of young backpackers and students who arrive by plane with their legitimate passports and papers.

However NGOs, lawyers and other bottom feeders used to make squillions out of the tax payer to represent, advocate and stir the proverbial with economic migrants who arrived courtesy of the large sums they paid to people smugglers in lieu of a first class airfare which would have been cheaper. But hey, a life on Centrelink is a very big prize indeed.

Then you have Labor and Greens who have no policies at all and need some emotive issues to talk up for headlines.

So much astroturfing and so few places to do it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU
"Astroturf and manipulation of media messages"

Banjo, overstayers are a problem...look up border.com.au.
"What will happen if I stay in Australia after my visa has ended?
You become an 'unlawful non-citizen' and this can cause problems for you, such as:
you risk being detained and removed from Australia
you might have to pay the Australian Government for the cost of removing you from Australia
you could be banned from returning to Australia for up to three years – this is called a re-entry ban."

Certainly immigration has far more problems with the 'non-citizens' in this country than the few asylum seekers/refugees they accept. These people often work for cash, often on very low wages, undercutting many of our own Australian unemployed's chances of work.
Look it up for yourself...

Suseonline, "These people often work for cash, often on very low wages, undercutting many of our own Australian unemployed's chances of work"

The ripening berries growing on the Atherton Tableland need to be picked. There are only the backpackers and greying nomads to do it.

Meanwhile in Sydney and Melbourne those young men who arrived in boats after paying huge sums to criminal smugglers are dependent on the taxpayer.

Exactly how do you propose to lever their behinds out of Sydney where they are making trouble and into the fields with a basket picking fruit? One the other hand there are many young women doing the job and they have never needed protection.

Aussies, particularly young out of work ones don't want to work, and nor do they have to. They simply either shack up in numbers, 8 x $250/ week is more than most households bring in, or, they scam the easily scammed system like a couple living on the rock n roll one claiming single mother pension and the other the dole.

If they would pick fruit for $15 per hour then the illegals wouldn't have a job.

Hi Foxy, it is a sad indictment that Australia, a country that once prided itself on its ideals of freedom, continues to keep innocent children in detention, prison no less.

In November 2015 the Senate passed The Migration and Maritime Powers Amendment Bill (No. 1) with a number of Green amendments put forward by Senator Sarah Hanson-Young. The bill effectively would release all children in detention unless a court order was to prevent it as not being in the public interest. Unfortunate the government to its shame has as yet failed to ratify the bill in the House of Representatives. The only glimmer of hope for these children current locked away is for Malcolm Turnbull to act, and there is some possibility he will act on the issue shortly.

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/nov/23/senate-passes-bill-calling-for-release-of-all-children-in-immigration-detention

Hi Paul,

Isn't it fun to find a stick to shove up the government ?

It depends how you define 'detention': children on Nauru are free to go anywhere on Nauru, isn't that so ? They can go to school there, shop, go to the beach, fish, skim stones, play in the bush, etc., like kids elsewhere, isn't that so ?

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think there are any kids on Manus island.

So how many children are in what is usually defined as 'detention' ? i.e. locked up in camps, or jails or some sort of institution ?

Just asking.

Joe

Hi Joe,

174 children are in closed immigration detention facilities: 104 are held in closed immigration detention facilities in Australia and 70 children are detained in the Regional Processing Centre in Nauru
331 children are in community detention in Australia.

Plese explain the government line on the 104 in the closed immigration detention facilities in Australia. How many of them go to the local school, shops, go to the beach, fish, skim stones, play in the bush, etc., like kids elsewhere, how many of the 104? None!

When asked about her party’s responsibility for the outcome of its policies, twelve hundred drowning at sea and counting, SHY said “Of course not. Accidents happen. Tragedies happen”.

Fact is, the Greens have a very sorry record for:

- promoting the very policies that suit the business model of people smugglers and encourage economic migrants; and,

- encouraging other countries in the region to think of Australians as a people who place little value on the citizenship they give away so freely, who don't care about defending borders and resources, and who have no 'bottle' to sternly resist if ever challenged.

In international diplomacy it is a very foolish and dangerous thing to encourage others to believe that you don't value what you have.

Paul1405,

BTW, is SHY still watching re-runs of Sea Patrol?

Embarrassing when she mixes up a TV program with reality. Especially when the always overbearing and idiotic SHY is attempting to bully and belittle the respectful public servants who would answer SHY's value-laden accusations if only she knew what she was asking.

Hi Paul,

I think I've seen TV footage of kids in hijabs waiting for the school bus in Nauru. If so, then refugees, including kids, can move freely around Nauru, go fishing, or swimming all year round, etc.

It must be like being on a constant tropical holiday, and all paid for by the government. Discuss.

As OTB says, ' .... it is a very foolish and dangerous thing to encourage others to believe that you don't value what you have.'

Joe

//I think I've seen TV footage of kids in hijabs waiting for the school bus in Nauru. If so, then refugees, including kids, can move freely around Nauru, go fishing, or swimming all year round, etc.//

But what about the ones who aren't on Nauru, Joe? Aren't they just as entitled to the freedom that those kids on Nauru have? Or at the very least, a basic education?

As for the people whining about the cost to taxpayers.... if you pay taxes, then you already support the education of other people's children through taxation. I'm happy to do so because I think education is a good thing. And I have no objections to supporting a few more because I think education is a good thing.

//As OTB says, ' .... it is a very foolish and dangerous thing to encourage others to believe that you don't value what you have.'//

I value the education I've received. I value it enough to want everybody to else to have it as well, even if it means I have to pay taxes for it. Education isn't just good individuals, it's good for everyone - even the mean buggers who'd deny it to children because their parents entered the country illegally.

As a side note: there was once a case where one of a pair of conjoined ('Siamese') twins assaulted a man and was found guilty but was not sentenced for it. The judge reasoned that since both twins would have to be imprisoned and one of them wasn't guilty, it would have been a case of wrongful imprisonment. If locking up both conjoined twins for the crime committed by one of them is wrongful imprisonment, what does that make locking up children for the crimes committed by their (not conjoined) parents? Disgusting.

Hi Toni,

Yes, of course, that was my point. I'm all for the children of illegal immigrants getting as much education s humanly possible. It might be all the education they ever get. And if they can go fishing after school ......

So how many children of illegal immigrants are actually locked up, i.e. presumably as if in cells ?

Would that every instance of unhappiness in the world could be banished at an instant !

Joe

Dear Joe,

Even if there was just one child in detention
that would be one child too many.

The Human Rights Commissioner wrote a Report
on children in detention. Its there as a public record.
She wrote about the conditions, the abuse and George
Brandis wanted her sacked for doing that.

You'd think that the concern would be about the
children and the conditions.

Foxy, if there were children of illegal immigrants of European origin in Australian detention centers there would be a huge outcry.

Somehow, Muslim children aren't the same.
However, that's not racism of course...

Beach, your concern for non-white Muslim children held in detention centers is touching, too bad its not genuine. You cynically exploit the misery of refugees simply to attack the Greens and Senator Sarah Hanson-Young in particular who has first hand experience of the "facilities" on places like Nauru, and unlike you, does have a genuine concern for refugees.

"A former Wilson Security guard says the Senator (Sarah Hanson-Young) was the target of an extensive spy operation when she (Senator Sarah Hanson-Young) visited Nauru in 2013 to inspect immigration detention facilities, with guards briefed on her room number, vehicle and what time she was going to be in and out of the camp."

<<So how many children of illegal immigrants are actually locked up, i.e. presumably as if in cells?>>
Joe to answer your question:

“Stone walls do not a prison make,
Nor iron bars a cage;
Minds innocent and quiet take
That for an hermitage;
If I have freedom in my love
And in my soul am free,
Angels alone, that soar above,
Enjoy such liberty.”

Richard Lovelace

Joe, I don't know about the shopping, swimming, bush walking and skimming of stones by refugee kids on Nauru, but here is a link to what 'Amnesty Internal' had to say about the place.

http://www.amnesty.org.au/refugees/comments/30726/

For those who are trying unsuccessfully to rewrite history, including the over-powdered, over-paid and over-staying Gillian Triggs, who didn't find thousands of children while Labor and their treacherous Greens sidekicks were in government,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0MHRSFz6FM

Simply not true!

The Human Rights Commissioner's Report covered
children in detention under all governments.

And to say otherwise is a bald-faced lie and
political game playing.

The Sydney Morning Herald states that Gillian Triggs
hit a raw nerve with her children in detention report.

Gillian Triggs, a most distinguished and highly
respected lawyer came under significant attack from the
then Abbott government and some elements of the media.

In accordance with its Chsrter the Commission undertook an
inquiry into children in detention early in 2014.
The Attorney-General received a copy of the first report on
November 11, 2014.

The government had to publish the report within 15 sitting
days. They attempted to diminish the reputation of the
Commission - all designed to make it easier for the government
to ignore its report.

The importance of the report cannot be over emphasized.
It covered children in detention under all governments -
and should have been taken seriously. This was particularly
important as the Sydney Morning Herald pointed out -
because of the increase of arbitrary powers that were not
subject to appeal or review that the government had
granted its own ministers. The work of the Commission was
more necessary than it had ever been.

Hi Foxy, please don't blind the rabid right with the truth about the Australian Human Rights Commission report into 'Children in Immigration Detention' as presented by the President of the Commission, Professor Gillian Triggs. The Abbott Government, and to their shame, some within the Labor Party were willing to trade Australia's good reputation on human rights for short term political gain. To satisfy Abbott's jingoism of 'Stop the Boats' civil liberties and freedoms were, and are still being compromised in detention centers.

Paul and Suse,

I could be wrong but my understanding is that there were nine or ten times as many children in detention at the time of the 2013 election than there are today.

And the kids on Nauru could swim and skim stones and troll through the shopping centre if they wanted to, but it's not compulsory. Schooling might be though ?

And not all those currently in detention are Muslim, is that right ?

Keep trolling :)

Joe

Joe, what took place under Labor was disgusting and deserves our condemnation, but to make reference to it to simply justify today's governments action is irrelevant, the here and now is what we have to be most concerned with.
As for your claims about shopping, fishing and skimming of stones, baseless nonsense, which you use to make light of circumstance these poor children, through no fault of their own, now find themselves in.

You could also read the definition of trolling.

Dear Sonofgloin,

Sorry for the late reply.

The bible itself is ambiguous about whether sons should pay for the sins of their father - on the one hand there is Deuteronomy 24:16, but on the other there is also Exodus 34:7.

Nevertheless, my personal view is that sons should pay for those sins of their father that were committed before they were born, but not for those that were committed afterwards.

Why? because while the parents can exercise their free will both before and after, until the child was born (or at least conceived) to these particular parents they could back-off and choose not to be born to them, but perhaps wait for a better pair of parents.

This however is irrelevant to this particular discussion because making the child of someone who is locked up in immigration-detention go to a public/state school is against the best interest of the child, so not sending them is not a punishment.

When the state detains your parent, the state becomes your enemy. At this time a child would naturally want to stay with their parents rather than leave them and go to a place where they would be indoctrinated with their enemy's belief-system, often condemning their very parents. Moreover, as the parents would be unable to work while in detention, they have all the time in the world to lovingly educate their children themselves and teach them their own family-values. How more so when they are likely to be deported anyway, so the child will never need to be confused with the ways of those who are about to kick them out. Children should stick to their parents through thick and thin while the latter are oppressed.

Loudmouth
You are right about the Australian government opening
The gates of the detention centre.
It was on the Tv news one night.
The parents and their children are free to go to the beach or
Do whatever they want there now.

Foxy, Suesonline,
and those in favour of separating children from their parents
And putting them in the care of strangers should understand how
Traumatic this would be for the children. The aborigines still
Grieve over the stolen children generation.

Mrs Griggs, should have realised this, if she really had the welfare
Of the children at heart.

I think she was also using the issue to wield a big political stick
Against the Liberal party.

She never spoke out so strongly when the Labour Party had 10times more
Children in there. It was very selective timing.

I know she was giving a report, but that still didn't stop her from
Speaking out in a strong manner against all the children the Labour
Party had in detention before they lost the election.

There are thousands of grown men also coming on illegal boats into Europe and here
Who Are 20-30years old and never been to school

It comes as a shock to them that in Europe and the West people
Actually, study for years and work all there lives to gain their comfortable
Lifestyles they think it is just handed out for free.

There are some lovely families and good people who come too

Exodus 34:7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation."

Yuyutsu......a well found verse that defeats my biblical premise. Thanks for the effort.

Of course the refugee children are offered education. This is a total nonsense. Whether the parents want them to be educated away from their backward useless religion is something else.
Save your chat for something of relevance such as why the ABC at great cost to us, supports islam. The most misogynistic, cruel, despotic and ignorant religion on the planet. Forget christianity, that was finished up by the ABC years ago.