Hi Joe,

You put forward the idea of 'refugees'

"open borders: if you can pay, you can come." "the question arises: how many people from India, China, Philippines, etc., etc., would like to come to Australia? That would very much depend on the price.

I would view such people as economic migrants. There could be a fine line between a refugee and a economic migrant, a person could contain elements of both. My Egyptian friend was somewhat both, a genuine fear of the regime in Egypt for what were deemed his past sins, but he also had money, which certainly gave him a lot more flexibility of choice.

Hi Paul,

Well, yeah, that's the point: with an 'open borders' policy, the price would be the cost of an air fare. How many people, from China and India, across to Greece, could afford that ? Millions ? Tens of millions ?

'Open borders' means an open-ended policy, with no limits on whoever can pay for their fare. If you were Greek in Greece, say, and Australia had an open borders policy, would you be contemplating flying out here in the next few weeks ? Relations out here could support you for a while and, especially if you had the skills that Greece itself desperately needs, you could find work here. Meanwhile, back in Greece, ......

And meanwhile also, those millions in refugee camp hell-holes, without the means to survive except on UN aid, would be just as likely to be stuck there, skint.

OR: tight controls. Increase the quota for genuine destitute refugees from those hell-holes. Process applications to meet those quotas.

Those seem to be the alternatives. Do you have another scenario ?

Sometimes problems don't have piss-easy solutions, Paul.

Cheers,

Joe

It's interesting that some here rant and rave about the folk on fishing boats who claim asylum are "economic migrants".

Next you're saying that allowing them sanctuary is keeping the "real" refugees in the camps (less than 1.0 % of refugees in camps are resettled annually)

However, you pay no attention at all to the claims for asylum made by those who reached Australia by air - apparently they're not on your radar at all.

For example, in 2011-12 over 7,000 non-IMAs (people who arrived by air) applied for asylum. In the same year over 7,000 IMAs (people who arrived by boat) applied for asylum. In that year there was an 11% increase in applications for asylum from foreign students already studying here.

One would imagine, that even though the dastardly desperadoes who arrived on leaky fishing boats have stopped actually reaching our shores, that the number of non-IMAs has continued unabated - and more likely to be "economic migrants than the folk who risk their necks on the high seas in desperation.

Why aren't you you all out there lobbying the govt on the economic migrants who don't arrive by boat?

Because you're not aware of them unless you look up the figures - they go under the radar for most people. And the likes of stunt-boy Abbott can't make them out to be a dire threat because in many cases these people are already living, working and studying quite peacefully in the community.

Are ya gonna get yer banners out, Loudy, and go picketing the immigration department for allowing non-IMAs to make asylum claims?

Hi Poirot, if it was simply an argument about illegal people in our community then the 'plane people' would require as much attention as the 'boat people', if not more. The Abbott Government like its Labor predecessor devotes little in the way of resources to tracking down "over stayers" who arrive at Mascot and Tullamarine. The fact is there is little political mileage in 'plane people' where as there is plenty in the news worthy boat arrivals.

Hi Joe, it is funny you should mention Greece with it economic and political crises. If the situation were to become too hot for the millionaire Greek, I am sure if he so desires he will have no problem finding refuge in Australia. The millionaire Mafia boss and Liberal Party supporter, Frank Madafferi was quickly accommodated by the Howard Government when he was going to be deported. As they say money talks.

Hi Poirot,

With sixty million refugees now around the world, I was trying to put forward the two options: basically, open slather OR controlled quotas. As I have said again and again, even on this thread, by all means increase the quota of genuine refugees, 'out-of-sight' refugees. Surely so many would have done all the right things, applied, filled out forms up-hill-and-down-dale, and waited? Broke, with their families scattered to the four winds, and in vast camps ? Don't you have the slightest feeling for them ?

Economic migrants ? They should take their chances as economic migrants, not as bogus refugees. Think just for a bit beyond your opportunist stick-up-the-@rse-of-the-government mentality, Poirot: the more bogus 'refugees' that take the place of genuine refugees in any quota, the fewer genuine refugees would be taken within that quota. Isn't that so ?

I think that, if you ever move on from adolescent and/or opportunist viewpoints, even you will see the sense.

No, maybe not. There's no stick in it, no mileage.

Joe

Hi Paul,

Oy. My point about Greece was that, quite understandably, many, many Greeks - especially the more highly-educated - will be desperate to get out of the place now, once the bottom drops right out of what's left of the Greek economy. 60 % unemployment ? Halcyon days !

Our gain, but most certainly Greece's loss - and none of them necessarily millionaires, most probably as broke as buggery and dependent on their relations out here (for how long, one wonders) for the basics of life if they stayed in Greece.

Now that somebody mentioned Greece, how long before the money runs out completely ? Two days ? A week ? Then what ? No money to buy anything with, and shops and importers not getting paid to bring in stock.

So how long before we hear, at the beginning of a long hot, Greek summer, of old people dying of heatstroke ? Then of old people dying of hunger ? Of the looting of shops and warehouses ? I'd give Syriza a month, tops, before some of them have to leave for their lives.

But it must have felt so good to shove that stick up Merkel :) Yeah, that'll show 'em, yuk yuk. O laos milai, loipon limoktonei.

Joe