Hi o sung wu,

That is why I said "and I don't see what you did as harsh at all, in fact just the opposite" Every night so many people sleep rough on the streets in Sydney and I'm sure in lots of places. On the police side, a job I don't think they very much enjoyed, rounding up vagrants on the streets, taking them to the watch house, locking them up, but what was the alternative at that given moment. At one time if it wasn't The Salvation Army and a few others, it was left to the police to perform what was a vital function in society, getting people out of harms way and off the streets for a short time, and giving them that little bit of sustenance which otherwise they would not have. I'm pragmatic enough to say that didn't fix the problems long term, but it was vital in the short term, with no other alternative at hand. Unfortunately the police no longer perform that function and in many cases there is no real practical alternative in place. Too many remain on the streets and in serious harms way, charities can only do so much with their limited resources. Homelessness is a growing problem in our society.
I'm not a "believer" myself but an org I have mentioned before 'Father Chris Riley's Youth Off The Streets' does such a fantastic job with the limited resources they have. I know people who do fundraising for them and they can use every penny they get, and a few bob more.

http://www.youthoffthestreets.com.au/#/

Hi there PAUL1405...

I've had a good look at Father Chris RILEY'S work, at trying to reduce the number of homeless youth on our streets and public places. I've always had a high regard for him and all those who work tirelessly on his behalf. Over time, I've watched as he's tried to garner more funds from government, often without much success ? Unfortunately, there are other groups who're are in the same arena also seeking funds probably as worthy as Father Chris's organisation ?

However there is one or two others, who don't enjoy the same impeccable reputation as does the good Father Chris, therefore many members of the public are a little weary of where their funds might end up ?

On a personal note one gentleman I know, a Mr Les TWENTYMEN is an individual who I cannot come to terms with at all ? Previously he worked from Melbourne. And by all accounts his work down there was exemplary, and he did try his best to do the right thing by their troubled youth in Victoria.

Rather, my biggest complaint with Mr TWENTYMEN, I found the man to be a real 'know-all' ? Why are our kids this way or that, always claiming to have specific 'inside knowledge' exclusive to everyone else ?

Furthermore his attitude towards police, left much to be desired, apportioning significant blame on them for not having the ability to 'communicate' with the kids. Despite whatever it is they're trying to deal with in their Local Area Commands, concerning these troubled youths ?

Still Paul, my criticism is indeed personal, and I've even had some former colleagues indicate to me; my criticism of Mr TWENTYMEN is essentially unfounded ? So there you go mate !

Hi o sung wu,

I just wanted to clear up something with you. Even though I am a pacifists and totally anti war. I hold no animosity towards those of all nations (the soldiers, the civilians) who are forced through conscription, or the ignorance of volunteering, or through the sway of the political leadership and those who control society, or just being there in the thick of it, for what happens. I was never comfortable with the anti Vietnam War protest when it targeted the young blokes who participated, the war was not their doing, to me I seen them as much a victim of that war as the Vietnamese civilians themselves.
WWI, take a naive 16 year old plus kid, fill his head full of patriotic nonsense about king and empire, train him to shoot, pack him off to a distant foreign land. Then on the 25th April 1915 have him attack an "enemy" he doesn't even know. I can blame a lot of people for that, but not the kid. Under different circumstances at a different time I could have been that kid.
So I have no problem being a member of 2 RSL's, and I have no problem attending the local Dawn Service, 6am ANZAC Day, and I count the local RSL Sub-Branch President as one of my friends.
I'll leave you with this, imagine if the 10 million had said 28th July 1914, I am not having a bar of this, and laid down their weapons, and refused to fight, No WWI, no 20 million dead and no 80 million more killed in wars there after. Just a thought.

Paul1405, "I was never comfortable with the anti Vietnam War protest when it targeted the young blokes who participated, the war was not their doing, to me I seen them as much a victim of that war as the Vietnamese civilians themselves"

In Australia, conscription was the fundamental problem and focus of protest. Conscription IS always highly contentious. Conscription was and is rejected by Australians.

Protest organisers commented back then and later that their greatest concern was the few agent provocateurs who were forever trying to get into the peaceful marches and sit-downs to get their faces on TV. Whatever the few serial troublemakers were about, it was something else entirely. Likewise it was never clear just who the activists were representing.

Questions remain about the links between police Special Branch and others and these troublemaking elements, and links with the media as well. However the fact is that somehow the media's cameras were always on those 'radical' elements. That didn't harm governments that wanted to divert attention away from the peaceful protesting about conscription.

The lessons to be learned from Vietnam are twofold:

- first and foremost, it is NOT the case that the media are concerned about freedom of speech, but they are concerned about protesting their own freedom to do what they like, even where that invades law-abiding citizens' privacy and breaks laws;

- secondly, diplomacy often fails because humans are human and they believe their own 'take' on what others are thinking and doing, without ever questioning their own capacity to pre-judge. We all do that, but we expect better of our leaders who are paid handsomely to suspend their judgement and seek advice from across the board and especially, seek and value contrary opinion; and

- thirdly, governments are NOT necessarily your friends. A good government fears its public and with good cause.

The astounding thing about Vietnam was how keen and quick the media outlets were - all of them - to censor for government without even being asked. It was as though someone had pulled a switch! Go back and read the papers.

That should be threefold.

Good evening to you PAUL1405...

I've never had a doubt concerning your degree of loyalty to this great country of ours, or your adherence to the traditions or customs we all observe and hold very dear to us. Nor does anyone condemn nor criticise an individual who holds a belief in pacifism or non-violence ! More often than not, it takes a great deal of courage to openly declare one's pacifists views when in public.

There are many others who currently belong to RSL Clubs who shouldn't be permitted through the front door ? And I have no doubt Paul, you'd be very warmly welcomed whenever you chose to attend a RSL club, anywhere ?

Your last paragraph is quite absorbing ? If every armed soldier in all our wars were to put down there arms and refused to fight ? What would happened ? Obviously there would be a massive saving of life for starters. The 'squillions' of Dollars directed for the war effort, would be re-directed, and put to better use ? Family's would remain together, without suffering horrible dislocation caused by all these unnecessary deaths. The downside is much more difficulty to determine ? Some 'experts' today claim, without wars the planet would becomes over-populated, and the numbers of indigent and starving people would increase exponentially !

My view is somewhat similar ? I'd rather have to tackle overpopulated areas, and starving people, then retrieving battle casualties. It would be far easier to feed millions of starving people, by preparing thousands of acres of land and growing food. Rather than trying to clear the same land area where hundreds of mines have been laid ?

Paul you and I are not that much different ? We're divided on some issues, but 'hey' who isn't ? Take it easy mate.