The sad display of violent confrontation at the Reclaim Australia anti-Muslim protest rally was disgusting to watch on the news. Neither side of the opposing groups looked to be fair representation of everyday Australians. Bogans fighting bogans is all I saw.

The news story raised the question for me, 'who is Reclaim Australia?' This morning I read through the Reclaim Australia website http://www.reclaimaustralia.net/

Wow, what a bunch (if there is actually a bunch) of nutters. Reclaim Australia is a weird religious group who follow a God called 'Yhwh'. The group is not just anti-Muslim, it is even more so against all western governments.

Judge for yourself... the following is the group's Mission Statement:
"Reclaim Australia has one main purpose, and that is to assist and educate the people of Australia as to whom they really are, to help guide them to follow the higher laws of Yhwh, our Heavenly Father, to live the way our heavenly father wanted his children to live, to reclaim their country from the parasites and predators of the Abdicated Corporate Government of Babylon and Caesar's world of Satan."

The first paragraph on the home page reads (notice the grammatical errors):
"All Law is biblical, and that it represents a Covenant between man and Yhwh which is characterized as divine revelation. when we consider that government is founded exclusively on law, government itself then becomes a religion to implement or execute or enforce divine revelation. when government abuses the authority delegated by Yhwh through Yhwh Law, then it also becomes a false religious cult. this makes all western government nothing more than a cult surrounding the false religion it created with its own unjust law because this law has become a vain substitute and an affront to Yhwh's Law found in the bible."

I rest my case..

Conservative hippie,
From the reports I've read on Facebook regarding the Melbourne rally the Police allowed Rise Up! and certain "neo Nazis" to enter the precinct then encircled them and drew in their outer defensive line of Socialists, anarchists and whoever.
I didn't bother going to this rally firstly because Reclaim are controlled opposition and also because I knew how it was going to play out but I've been to other similar gatherings and seen exactly how the Police and "Leftists" manage them.
Anthony Main, Mel Gregson, Alex Sproule, and the other "socialist" facilitators co-ordinate their actions in co-operation with the Police commanders on the day, I've seen this with my own eyes, Mr Main is constantly running back and forth between the body of the protest and the Police brass.
http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2014/09/10/1227053/545068-acff40ce-3876-11e4-9209-b8d69e4f035f.jpg

Mr Sproule and his goons typically run a sort of flying picket or patrol in areas surrounding the protest venue, either harassing and assaulting the "right wingers" or directing Police to such people who are quickly escorted away.
http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2013/02/19/1226581/412067-geert-wilders-protesters.jpg
It's fairly obvious why the "Nazis" and Rise Up! were the only ones allowed to proceed to the protest site, we know that the "Nazis" are Liberal party operatives and Danny Nalliah's allegiances are well documented.
To sum up, the controlled opposition numbering some 100 people were directed by police to assemble on the upper concourse, a position easily defensible by relatively small detachments of officers, the Police lines were then reinforced by the "Left" protest group and the other "concerned citizens" numbering some say, 300 or so were prevented from attending the Reclaim rally and subjected to harassment and intimidation by the counter protestors.
http://natalt.org/nataltblog/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/11102777_1438625039763568_6217164465549326039_n.jpg
The rallies in other capitals by all accounts went off without too much drama but the Victorian situation was entirely predictable and patriots, nationalists and such were warned to stay away from the inevitable debacle.

Oh dear:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152827357072825&set=p.10152827357072825&type=1&theater
Now why would "Nazis" be standing alongside Jews and vice versa at Federation Square on Saturday?

"Yesterday, The Australian Jewish Communal Lobby posted an offer of a fully funded legal defence for anyone arrested at any of the nationwide events of the Reclaim Australia Movement.
We would like to take this opportunity to congratulate all of those individuals who have responsible for successfully painting reclaim Australia as a white supremacist neo nazi movement. You may notice on our following posts, we have included original photos that were doctored and disseminated around the internet so as to give the impression that this falsehood was in fact the truth. The image below is just one example of the lies being spread."
http://www.facebook.com/1536189769936512/photos/a.1538142963074526.1073741828.1536189769936512/1667764433445711/?type=1&theater

Hip, all I know is 'Yhwh' was the name the early Israelite's gave to their god. The Israelite's who were possibly decedents of Canaanites and most likely based their religion on the religions of tribes located to the south and east of present day Israel. Incidentally, at one time uttering the name 'Yhwh' got you the death penalty.
These people are all micro groups of fermented fruit cakes.

Jay, the police are all part of some radical leftists conspiracy. Those links of yours are hardly compelling evidence!

Paul,
Err no, the "Leftists" in inverted commas and the Police work together, ie the facilitators of the counter rally are more like Police informers or collaborators than "conspirators", Anthony Main, Alex Sproule, Mel Gregson, Jacob Grech and their small group of "socialists" are pseudo Leftists who operate with the Police to control demonstrations.
That's not to say that all the participants in the counter rally were in on it but since I've been to identical events in Melbourne and participated in counter rallies opposing "right wing" provocation and you haven't I'll continue to assert my expertise in the matter. I obviously don't have links to the things I've seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears but Paul I've stood two feet away from these guys and heard them conversing with senior Police, seen them help the cops drag "right wing" people away or assault them and so forth.
Fake Lefties, Fake Nazis and controlled opposition, the Rise Up! and Neo Nazi figures were ushered into Fed Square early and when the Reclaim people arived at the arranged time they were prevented from joining the demonstration on the upper level, the Police formed the inner cordon and their collaborators from the Socialist Party marshalled the counter demonstration to form the outer cordon. Anthony Main was even heard complaining to the Police commander that he had to "split his forces" to deal with groups of reclaim supporters arriving from the St Kilda Rd and Birrarung Mar directions.
Believe me genuine "progressives" have tried to have Main and his people removed from other protest groups, such as the anti East-West Link but they're protected and take over almost every protest movement in order to steer it in a certain direction.
Here he is again:
http://majorityrights.com/images/uploads/Athony+Main+Anti+Fa+demanding+the+police+stop+us+marching.JPG
Taking charge, don't the people look thrilled at being ordered around by a Police informer:
http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2014/01/10/1226799/255330-df48bd98-7973-11e3-abd3-ac86fade2183.jpg
Mel Gregson being "arrested":
https://s.yimg.com/ao/a/east-west-protest-large-2.jpg

Yes, just another crazy group of religious idiots claiming to be better than everyone else as usual. One group is as bad as the next.

Personally, I think they are more likely to worship the 'white Australia Policy, like our own Jay Of Melbourne, than any supposed God in the sky.
Shades of Nazism and KKK.....

cont..
You know as well as I do who the "Nazis" work for and why they were present at the rallies and Rise Up! wear their hearts on their sleeves.
It seems mystifying to outsiders why swastika tattooed skinheads would be forming a line to protect people waving Israeli flags and fundamentalist christians like Danny Nalliah but you and I know why such a bizarre contradiction can exist...at least I hope you do.
The Young Liberals have been busted trying to recruit and grow "neo Nazi" groups to carry out provocations:
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/victoria-state-election-2014/liberal-party-campaigner-scott-harrison-a-former-neonazi-20141112-11l1dx.html
The same thing is happening in Sydney with a group called Squadron 88,
the way they operate is to portray the skinheads as "patriotic" muscle who will protect the usually older and more frail right wingers from the rabid "ferals" on the other side of the line, that's how we ended up with a line of "Nazis" standing with Rise Up! and Zionist activists last Saturday and earlier in the year up at Penrith.
Nazis...
http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2014/12/09/1227149/366871-9da5b42c-7ec7-11e4-bb60-b869b40cfa0e.jpg
...working alongside Zionists:
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SQxtiADUVsY/maxresdefault.jpg

Paul,

"These people are all micro groups of fermented fruit cakes."

Yes, it was quite a sight to see!

I did have one discussion on twitter after I posted a hilarious pic taken in Martin place of a motley collection of signs, three or four odd-bods and what appeared to be a Centurion and a Spartan - all waiting for the party to start.

The tweeter's name was Kevo (or some such riveting twitter handle) from Cronulla, and he informed me most eloquently that my pic did not represent the true numbers of the gathering. His initial tweet went thus:

"bull%#&* there was 1500 there"

He then tweeted me a pic of twenty or so disaffected looking bogans and their signs - to which I replied that it wasn't very inspiring.

Then he tweeted that he was "against halal and sharia, that's all. Don't hate people....I care"

So a lot of these folks of the likes of Kevo came out because they genuinely believe all the dog-whistling about Muslims - and because they believe it, they are genuinely fearful. They thought it was an opportunity to vent their collective fears and grievances.

I'll add that I don't usually have discussions with people like Kevo,(and we did manage to keep it polite and we both agreed on the right to freedom of speech) but it did give me an insight into why he turned out at the rally.

"Jay, the police are all part of some radical leftists conspiracy. Those links of yours are hardly compelling evidence!"

It is amusing coming to this forum nowadays. Most of the posts I read are a non-stop narrative on how lefties, progressives feminists, etc are responsible for "everything"....doesn't make for a vital interactive place to visit. In fact these days it seems to settling into its role as a right-wing backwater, which is a shame.

As rallies go, it was like someone lifted up a rock and the many-legged underbelly of Oz crawled out.

Poirot,
The Sydney event went ahead as planned where ordinary, working class people like "Kevo" were allowed to attend their rally, the NSW Police by all accounts did their job and kept the counter protestors out of sight of the Reclaim gathering. The Sydney Reclaim event was addressed by several speakers including a young woman who'd survived a pack rape by a Lebanese gang, bear in mind that it was bucketing down rain on the day so the bulk of the 600 or so attendees were taking shelter under awnings and whatnot while only a few stood in the plaza.
The situation was different in Melbourne because the event was hijacked by Rise Up! and the Liberal party's "Neo Nazi" stooges, the Reclaim Australia supporters were prevented from attending by the Police working in concert with their allies and informers in the Socialist counter protest.

When I read that Mel Gregson was spokeperson for the Left and Danny Nalliah had taken over the Reclaim event I immediately knew what was afoot and decided not to attend as it would have been a total waste of time, I oppose both groups because they're simply trying to protect the status quo by denigrating grass roots activism and scaring ordinary people away from protesting by staging violent confrontations.
You should go if there's another one especially if you're in Melbourne because it's a great lark, I've been to rallies where no "Fascists" have turned up at all yet the Socialists do this pantomimed "They're over there!" and start screaming at nobody in particular or announce that their flying pickets have intercepted large groups of "racists" in the side streets and beaten them back.
It's hilarious, people are standing about asking each other "Who are we yelling at, I can't see anyone over there?", after a while someone will announce that "The Fascists have fled! The people have taken the square!" and people cheer, hug each other and even burst into tears though nothing has actually happened.

Hi Poirot, these people are on the extreme fringe of Australian politics and have never gained the traction they so desire. As part of the loony right they tend to be ridiculed and pitied rather than be taken serious. These bogans were part of the crazy 1% when I was young, and they still are part of that crazy 1%.

What is far more disturbing is when the likes of Abbott and others, who are part of accepted mainstream conservatism in Australia have flirtations with radical notations of racism, for some crass political advantage. John Howard and his 'Children Overboard' is a prime example of a politician using an blatant untruth to generate an extreme racists reaction for political advantage. We have seen this too often from our political leadership on both sides in recent years. These politicians see this stoking of the racial fire as something they can control for advantage, and certainly not over the top in their mind, but given some circumstances these things can get out of control in the community. The Cronulla riots had the beginnings of bad radical behavior by some and acceptance by others. This is where the real danger lies, mainstream conservatives playing the race card for political advantage.

Paul 1405 the "Refugees" held up their children as blackmail and then sunk their boat so everyone had to be rescued. That is what happened and no amount of your rubbish will change those facts. Allow refugees to get TPVs and see how many want to come where there is no public money, housing etc. Then if they cannot trot back home as a TPV stops travel watch the numbers disappear.
In Italy the "Refugees" invariably land in Italy but immediately de-camp to Germany or the UK where the money is so much better.
We can do so much better with so many good people in the world suffering, why take these FGM and oppressive types.

Ch,
Are you sure you have the right webpage? What makes you think the link you gave has anything to do with the Rally

I can see no link between the link you gave and the Reclaim Australia Rally website, which is reclaim Australia.com

I also note there are a few other organizations and apparent businesses with the word 'reclaim' in their name

Maybe you need to look a bit further

Paul,
So you do understand.
Now, write the words "The so called Nazis work for the Liberal party" and your credibility remains intact.
The wider issues really is that your much maligned "bogans" ie the majority of White Australians and a good many non whites besides have no effective political representatives and rightly feel that they're being screwed over by governments and corporations alike.
The reason simple folk fall prey to these scams like the anti Halal movement and such is because they want to be involved in activism on their own behalf but nobody is offering them genuine strategies or real rallying points. You need people with 110 IQ and above to lead the masses of 90-100 IQ people, a person of average intelligence like Shermon Burgess or Elise Chapman can't lead others of the same intellectual level,they quickly hit the limits of their ability and that's how smooth operators like Danny Nalliah and Mike Holt worm their way into these patriotic movements and divert them to fit their own agenda.
The reality is that Australians of all backgrounds are waking up to the fact that the major parties, the state governments, local councils and even the churches are working against the interests of the majority.
The Muslims get it, their leaders understand that the government is not there to serve the interests of the common person because it's been made explicit in their case and people of all walks of life are now coming to realise that in a sense "we're all Muslims now".
Don't you think the Left could capitalise on that sentiment and recruit these "Bogans"? The fact that they don't even try to educate or convert anyone outside the inner urban, university educated elite is telling, as is the fact that they will use any means to shut down any patriotic sentiment rather than try to absorb it as Rise Up!, One Nation and the Liberal party do.

Socialist hate free speach because it shows up the hopeless failure of their dogmas. Just look at the way they criticize the stopping of the people smuggling trade. Though it has led to no drownings and far less people in detention they still twist the story and prevent anyone from speaking the truth.

Fighting hatred with hatred at Reclaim Australia rallies is a failure of progressive politics
Brad Chilcott
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/06/fighting-hatred-with-hatred-at-reclaim-australia-rallies-is-a-failure-of-progressive-politics

runner,

"Socialist[s] hate free speach because it shows up the hopeless failure of their dogmas. Just look at the way they criticize the stopping of the people smuggling trade. Though it has led to no drownings and far less people in detention they still twist the story and prevent anyone from speaking the truth."

Which "truth" is that, runner?

Is that the "truth" that cloaks irregular maritime arrivals as "operational matters" and provides no transparency at all into what is actually taking place on the high seas and in Australia's territorial waters?

Is that the "truth" that informs us that the boats have "stopped", yet spurs the govt to buying many orange boats to send the non-existent asylum seekers back from whence they came? (I note our govt has gone for the cheaper option of ACME Vietnamese faux fishing boats to do the same job - problem being that they can't stay afloat long enough to get them out of the dock)

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/vietnamese-boats-unseaworthy-government-sources-say-20150311-1411bi.html

Is that the truth that informs us that a group of asylum seekers "in a boat" were sent back (in the same boat) just the other week after spending 3 days on Christmas Island?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/asylum-seekers-turned-back-to-indonesia/story-fni0xqll-1227275479213

Funny, don't you think, if the boats have stopped.

We haven't got a clue what's been happening up there - don't lecture lefties on transparency and free speech.

JoM,

I take the point that some "progressives" turned up to challenge the reclaim gathering...but let's not label this rally as something springing up from grass roots progressive activism.

Here's an article from the first march in March rallies last year:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-16/protesters-march-in-march-across-australia-against-govt-policies/5324048

I draw your attention to the people marching (lots of pics there) - spot the difference?

(Noting also that this rally struggled to be reported - over Australia it drew very large attendance, yet picked up only minor coverage on MSM)

I put it to you that these people better represent concerned lefties/progressives than anything that was flapped around at the recent rallies.

Note the colour and the vibrancy of ordinary Aussies peacefully marching, displaying their displeasure at being hoodwinked by what turned out to be a far right-wing govt - and its policies.

That's a spontaneous outpouring from progressives - and it's a world away from the dank, dark, volatile humanity that turned up the other day to "reclaim Australia".

I went to the Reclaim Australia Rally in Brisbane. There was about 1000 people there for Reclaim & about 100 people there for the Anti-Reclaim. The first thing I noticed was the various people in the Reclaim camp. Aboriginals, Indians, Asians & White people all supporting Reclaim.

The mix of Society, Ordinary & Bogan was about 40/50/10% which was good to see. The signage was conservative. I saw no provocative signs. Most people stayed well away from the Anti-Reclaim area. The Bogans went to the Police line shouted provocative slogans back at the Anti-Reclaim group. The Organizers tried in vain to get them to leave that area & turn their backs on the Anti-Reclaim group to no avail. They were looking for trouble but the police & Security kept them well apart except for one (staged) short lived scuffle for the TV, with both sides having a laugh, even the security.

The Speakers spoke well, even Pauline, & were well received by the crowd as was to be expected. The 90% who listened had their backs turned on the Anti-Reclaim group at all times.

The Anti-Reclaim group was small, only about 80 people, mostly Aboriginal groups. Their signage was mostly about, stolen land, babies & Aboriginal Rights,with a few pro-moslem signs thrown in for good measure. Their vocal exploits were mainly concerned about the above issues & some extremely bad language was forthcoming. They were warned about the bad language a number of times but were reasonably well behaved other than that. Oh & the one scuffle, staged for the TV. It was probably arranged by the TV I felt because other than that it was somewhat boring.

'We haven't got a clue what's been happening up there - don't lecture lefties on transparency and free speech.'

sums it up Poirot. You did not want to have a clue when thousands were drowning and ten times the kids in detention. Now you have the audacity to take the high moral ground. Pathetic!

I do wish that people would stop using the TV popularized manufactured word 'bogans'; it does no justice to the hard working people of Bogan Gate in NSW.

Banjo has correctly pointed out that there appears to be at least two Reclaim Australia websites and that the 'Reclaim Australia Rally' may not have anything to do with the religious group 'Reclaim Australia' website.

Interestingly whilst checking this out I noticed one of the goals of the Rally organisers is to get the government to stop Centrelink from paying out the multiple wives in polygamist relationships. A quick Google search confirms this is happening do to a legal loophole. Centrelink also confirmed the practice has had the effect of encouraging some Muslim men to take on multiple wives with as many as 50 possible cases.

I'm still scratching my head as I send this post.

CH: some Muslim men to take on multiple wives.

Story from my time at Terendak Garrison, Malacca, Malaysia.

The R.A.P. had a Malay cleaner. He had four wives & 16 kids. Strangely his name was Abdul Rahman. (for those who know. Mid 60's)

He said four wives is just the right amount. One wife no good. Oh, got headache. Tow wives, no good. Two get together fight man, all time. No peace. Three wives, no good. Two fight one, two fight on two fight one. No peace for the man. Four wives everybody happy. Leave man alone. Wives happy, man happy.

Each wife had her own house & he had his own house.

runner,

Save your faux claims of concern for drowning asylum seekers for someone not so familiar with the blatantly un-Christian sentiments you festoon up and down this forum.

It's a common claim by some to pull false compassion out of the bag to beat lefties over the head with regarding asylum seekers.

By my calculations, and judging from your past contributions, you couldn't give two hoots about asylum seekers - drowning or not.

Yes Poirot and my my calculations you along with your other feminist mates have as much compassion for the assylum seekers as you do trhe unborn babies you are happy to slaughter. Your form is consistent if not repulsive.

Gawd, (she says, deciding to waste a post replying to runner's trusty "slaughtering unborn babies" fallback line).....it's the line he bleats when he's got nothing left in the larder.

I'll just point out, when including feminists in your response, runner, you left out "leftists and progressives".

I think it's pretty clear around here lately that if you don't include the three "leftists, progressives and feminists" that you're really not pulling your weight as far as damnation is concerned.

Step it up a bit - we don't want those nasty leftists and progressives feeling left out now do we....

ConservativeHippie, I'm rather puzzled as to how this could encourage anyone to take on multiple wives, as marrying makes many people ineligible for Centrelink benefits in most cases, and I'm not aware of any circumstances where ti puts them financially ahead of remaining single.

____________________________________________________________________________________

runner, asylum seekers have also drowned after this government turned back the boats. Though the previous government's policy was unacceptable, this government's policy of denying them hope is far worse.

Songwriter John Schumann has been shocked and disappointed to learn the anthem he wrote, I was only 19, was performed at at least one Reclaim Australia rally.

Like his other songs, they are about compassion, tolerance and inclusiveness. The song was used by a very confused ‘patriotic’ movement - and honours all Australians who have put themselves in harm’s way for their country.

“It is not to be used to advance ignorance and intolerance, especially as we approach the centenary of Anzac,” he said in the Australian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3sSwgL2paU

Personally - I don't know how to address the issues facing people from the left wing socialists or right wing lobby groups, who like having violent protests as a "hobby" - and over the period of Easter? A basic lack of respect, when other people were in Churches peacefully reflecting elements of the Christian religion, the Bible and life. Around 3000 people in places like Federation Square - were fighting - and what did it achieve?

It looked terrible. I was surprised no one was hurt. Surprisingly - I didn't see any people of a Muslim background involved - and yet the Muslim community re 'Reclaim Australia' are supposed to be the problem here?

Finally why didn't 'left wing extremists' simply stay away? I'd never heard of "Reclaim Australia" and yet these extreme violent protests simply gave Reclaim Australia A LOT of free publicity.

"I'm rather puzzled as to how this could encourage anyone to take on multiple wives, as marrying makes many people ineligible for Centrelink benefits in most cases" - Aiden

The men are not applying for Centrelink benefits, it's the individual women. The 'marriages' are actually de-facto relationships, by convenience and to avoid breaking Australian laws. Any money received goes into the woman's account. The woman who is applying for a benefit is asset tested; her 'husband' has nothing, except maybe his own benefit claim; the other wives are not deemed to be her relations and their incomes do not count against her as assets. Therefore, the more wives collecting a benefit, the more income coming into the household. Once they start having children the gravy train really starts to pay. And you can bet dollars against donuts, the man will be controlling the household income.

The whole thing is bureaucracy at it's craziest.

It's not only Muslim men, apparently there are also a handful of non-Muslims taking advantage of the same loophole in order to support an extended marriage.

Nathan,

"... I don't know how to address the issues facing people from the left wing socialists or right wing lobby groups, who like having violent protests as a "hobby"...Finally why didn't 'left wing extremists' simply stay away?"

Yar, thanks for reminding us that although the whole "reclaim whatever" is ostensibly a "right-wing" movement, it certainly doesn't preclude the lefties from being whacked over the head with it for good measure.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/07/reclaiming-australia-from-islam-is-really-about-reclaiming-whiteness?CMP=soc_568

"There are no Islamic courts, no practice of its jurisprudence, no laws from the Quran, and yet on Saturday we saw Reclaim Australia rally violently, their placards demanding the country say “No to Sharia!”

Seeing barricades, lines of mounted officers, rivals groups brawling over the truth of the “Islamification” of Australia, is a little overblown when we consider that Muslims, as 2% of the population, possess little by way of political power, have no significant representation, and own no capacity to impose their will.

So while we could dismiss the Reclaim movement as paranoid and ignorant, I refuse to see racism as a natural response, like an immune system, to presence of a “real” threat. We need to recognise the powerful feeling of “owning the nation” that comes with white Australia saying “No” to foreigners.

Reclaim’s sentiments come from a social imaginary of Australia under attack, which is inundated with images of a violent Islam. But it’s not that racism is the result of the “presence” of Islamism. It is that Islamism gives racism its convenient vocabulary.

Ordinary people can imagine the erosion of their social surroundings in everyday terms of stories and images that are fed to them in an exaggerated form, of an existential fight between us and them over who owns even the minutiae of life: where we live, the languages we speak and, in the case of the Halal certification “debate”, what we eat.

The beleaguered “community” increasingly becomes formed by these fantasies, fears, symbols, caricatures, stereotypes and nightmares. Racism then defaults to a kind of commonsense language..."

Poirot,
That article is wrong, the dominant culture in 2015 isn't "White" that culture did dominate up until about the 1960's but it had died out by the mid 1990's. This sort of explains why Reclaim is supported mostly by very young people who idealise "White Australia" and very old people who remember it as lived experience, not many people my age, say "Gen X" can relate to it and that's a problem, a lack of "adult supervision" so to speak.
The dominant culture in 2015 is one of unthinking conformity and consumerism, self evaluated identity rather than communal identity, crowdism instead of free thought and so forth.
Funnily enough this zeitgeist actually reminds me of growing up in a small town in the 1970's and 80's where if you dared to be even a little bit different or strayed from the herd you got a really hard time, were bullied and even beaten up on occasion. To be a patriot in 2015 invites the same level of of in group-out group hostility as I recall from my "Goth" days in the 1980's.

Nathan: "... I don't know how to address the issues facing people from the left wing socialists or right wing lobby groups, who like having violent protests as a "hobby"

I really don’t see this issue as a traditional Left/Right Wing problem. I saw for myself on Saturday that there were people from all sides of the Left/Right divide. I think that this is an issue that has the thinking part of that divide united as one for once. Unfortunately Bogans will be Bogans regardless on which side of this issue they are on. Yes the ones on the Reclaim Australia side did make me wince.

Nathan:...Finally why didn't 'left wing extremists' simply stay away?"

If they did they would have had no one there. All of the people I saw on the Ant-Reclaim side were Bogan to the Core. Thankfully there weren’t many of them. Most of them in their early to late teens. Brisbane at least.

Poirot: "There are no Islamic courts, no practice of its jurisprudence, no laws from the Quran, and yet on Saturday we saw Reclaim Australia rally violently, their placards demanding the country say “No to Sharia!”

Well no official Sharia Courts at least but, as shown on TV a few times, they do operate. There has been an Islamic Lobby Group pushing to get Sharia Courts recognized for moslems though for some time. There has been some creeping Sharia being pushed as happened in the UK & Europe until some acceptance was given for bits & pieces & as soon as that was won they started to push hard for even more & more. Riots etc. As for “violently displaying their placards.” How does one do that. The placards I saw on the Reclaim side were held aloft, saying, ”No to Sharia,” “ No to Halal,” “No to child brides,” “No to Islam.” One I saw said, “Yes to moslems, No to Sharia, No to Halal.” There was nothing more offensive than that.

On the Anti-Reclaim side there were some very offensive Placards. Nazi was the least offensive, I saw.

Oh please, not that old dog whistle, ConservativeHippie.

>>... one of the goals of the Rally organisers is to get the government to stop Centrelink from paying out the multiple wives in polygamist relationships<<

This was kicked around a few years ago, and quickly died a death, due to its complete insignificance in the context of welfare fraud. Melbourne's Herald Sun frothed at the mouth about "up to" twenty cases being investigated in 2010...

"Centrelink has confirmed it has investigated up to 20 cases of multiple relationships, including polygamy, in the past two years for payment irregularities"

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/growing-number-of-muslim-men-and-multiple-wives-exploiting-loophoole-for-taxpayer-handouts/story-e6frf7jo-1225837150560

Notably, it is only the headline, not the copy, that introduces the idea that this trend is related to Muslims. When SBS did a piece on polygamy in 2012, its interviewees included Aborigines and (shock horror!) Christians - the latter boasting that "Dorothy and Belle are both Christians and think God would be pleased that the relationship makes them all so happy".

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/insight/tvepisode/polygamy

Talking of happy, some people aren't happy unless they can find another whack-a-mozzie tale to introduce at the drop of the proverbial hat.

' Talking of happy, some people aren't happy unless they can find another whack-a-mozzie tale to introduce at the drop of the proverbial hat.'

actually Pericles its seems that many socialist are not happy unless throwing urine over those opposing gay marriage, being violent against those with a different view to feminism or wearing f abbott tshirts.

Percilies: some people aren't happy unless they can find another whack-a-mozzie tale to introduce at the drop of the proverbial hat.

I don't see anything wrong with that. If there is something there to whack then whack it. Like Halal, Sharia, Child Brides, Female circumcision etc.

Mossies do a lot of whacking of Australian Culture they don't like. Rancid uncovered meat, Pig farms, Piss-ups & Music, etc. We don't complain. We just ignore them.

They have a hide complaining about Western Culture. If they don't like it they shouldn't have come here in the first place. If they can't stand it then they have an obvious option on offer. They won't take that option because the Centre Care Payments are too lucrative, Ay.

Runner "Yes Poirot and my my calculations you along with your other feminist mates have as much compassion for the assylum seekers as you do trhe unborn babies you are happy to slaughter. Your form is consistent if not repulsive."

What a disgusting thing to say Runner. You are accusing Poirot ( and 'other feminist mates?') of slaughtering unborn babies when you have no proof at all of this accusation.
You are an absolute disgrace. ....yet you seem to continue with these lying rants without any consequences on this forum it seems.....

I just found Derryn Hinch's Web Page. There was a poll (closed).

Do you support the Reclaim Australia Protest Movement?

Results:
Yes: 89%
No: 9%
Indifferent: 1%
Would attend a Rally: 1%
Would not attend: 0%

Well there you go. Almost 90% support the Reclaim Australia Movement. I guess the Lefties would say most Australians are really Right Wing Bogans & Proud, Ay.

I say Australia should have a Referendum on allowing moslems to reside in Australia. How do you think that would go?

On more than one wife; a few years ago I read of an Aboriginal man in the NT who had a number of wives, it was a tradition of his people apparently.
They were being paid at the rate for wives when Centrelink woke up and cut the payments.
Was he worried, not at all, as the 'wives' then received the single rate (except the legal wife) so, as he is reported to have said, "They're still my wives but now we get more money".

Jayb, all your Hinch survey proves is 89% of people who "voted" on that site voted in favor of the Reclaim Australia Protest Movement. You can not extrapolate from such a survey that 89% of all Australians are in favor.

I say Australia should have a Referendum on allowing moslems to reside in Australia. How do you think that would go?

I don't know but if you want a big kick em out vote, just put it up on the Hinch web site.

Suse, and runner calls himself a christian, what can I say, a low life individual with a disgusting comment like that. I am tempted to have a go back but we will not lower ourselves to his level.

Poirot, don’t be surprised if Runner displays blatantly un-Christian sentiments. To reduce women to voiceless breeding machines and deny them compassionate support is un-Christian to be sure, but it is from the armoury not of Christianity but of the Church of Rome which has been at war with Christianity ever since the day it was cobbled together in the fourth century as an arm of empire by the Roman tyrant Constantine. It can be instructive to download the Kindle edition of Foxe’s list of Christian martyrs for a window on this relentless anti-Christian war which was still being waged when RU486 was barred in Australia.

This discussion can’t even begin to shed light while it is couched in the terms of the fake dichotomy of left wing and right ring and scales determining where a notion, or a party, or a person can supposedly be placed and validity determined accordingly. Wings and scales belonged to pterosaurs, and they have been extinct for aeons – to be survived in this day and age only by dog whistles..

'You are an absolute disgrace'

thanks Susie I would feel far more disgraceful if I agreed with you abhorrent views.

Danny Nalliah accuses left wing groups of 'planting' neo-Nazi protester at Reclaim Australia rally
http://www.3aw.com.au/news/danny-nalliah-accuses-left-wing-groups-of-planting-neonazi-protester-at-reclaim-australia-rally-20150407-1mg1zu.html
The question is why do the Police and socialists always protect these "Nazis", it's happened before, nobody on the Reclaim or Nationalist side seems to know who these guys with the Swastika tattoos are. Are the tattoos even real?
This article dates from 2011 and a new crop of "Right wing" provocateurs have formed under the post 2013 coalition government but it's a useful ooverview of how these groups work:
The Liberal Party And Its Satellites
Brendan Gidley, Terry Cooksley, Jim Saleam
http://ausfirst.alphalink.com.au/the%20liberal%20party%20and%20its%20satellites.html

Jay, is this Danny Nalliah some kind of hero of yours? Who is he? Does god really speak to him through dreams?

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/02/13/who-danny-nalliah-and-what-rise-australia

Paul,
No he's a right wing christian nutcase who was allowed to hijack the reclaim rally in Melbourne on Saturday, the Police ushered his group, some press photographers and the "Nazis" onto the upper concourse at Federation square about an hour and a half before the rally was to begin then with the co-operation of the Socialist Alliance they prevented the bona fide Reclaim protestors from attending the rally.
It was a set up, go to the reclaim Melbourne Facebook page and read the complaints by those who were prevented from attending and then contrast the event in Melbourne with the other rallies around the country which were allowed to proceed as normal. There were no "Nazis" at any of the other rallies, only Melbourne, they're plants, I've personally seen these "Nazi" stooges in action at a rally in 2010, they seem to seek out the press photographers to get their picture taken, clown around a bit and then quickly leave:
http://images.smh.com.au/2010/04/09/1303777/60311_native.jpg
That picture is a montage but the guy on the Left was joking around with the "Anti Fascists" standing outside Young and Jackson's pub before his shaven headed mate arrived, they then both walked over to the Channel 7 camera crew, waited for them to get their gear set up, did their little performance. The shaven headed guy spoke to the Police commander and then left, the guy in the grey shirt remained but the Anti Fascists didn't lift a finger against him.

JOM: they then both walked over to the Channel 7 camera crew, waited for them to get their gear set up, did their little performance. The shaven headed guy spoke to the Police commander and then left.

I concur, Most of the nastiness at these Demonstrations were either setup for or by the TV units for Headlines. Otherwise it all would have been a fairly passé & benign affair. You can't sell papers or garner Ratings with that.

Paul,

Yep....Nalliah is a doozy.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/02/13/who-danny-nalliah-and-what-rise-australia

On the Victorian bushfires...

"On his website, Rev Nalliah refers to occasions where God has spoken to him directly or through dreams.

One article caused outrage when he linked the 2009 Black Saturday bushfires to the liberalisation of abortion laws in Victoria.

“In my dream I saw fire everywhere with flames burning very high and uncontrollably. With this I woke up from my dream with the interpretation as the following words came to me in a flash from the Spirit of God.

“That His conditional protection has been removed from the nation of Australia, in particular Victoria, for approving the slaughter of innocent children in the womb.”

People believe this bollocks!

(I wonder if Nalliah gets that sort of info delivered in triplicate?)

As for runner himself and his shambolic run-by venom spitting conduct on this forum - what can one say? It's like dealing with a barely articulate and belligerent gremlin who's been brainwashed by a cult.

They're the worst kind : )

'As for runner himself and his shambolic run-by venom spitting conduct on this forum - what can one say? It's like dealing with a barely articulate and belligerent gremlin who's been brainwashed by a cult.'

yeah Poirot, just able to see how putried your dogmas are despite being dressed up as semi articulate. Your hatred of what is decent oozes from you despite your disguise. Your heroes among the emily's listers have obviously trained or modelled well for you. Your type is actually more destructive to society than Islam itself. At least they don't try and hide their barbarism.

Jayb,
The guy with the shaven head was drunk or on drugs, he looked like a homeless person but he was carrying a shopping bag with a Nike logo and what appeared to be a grotty old pair of boots and some clothes in it plus a smaller bag with the Apple logo. On his feet were a brand new pair of sneakers so I'd assume somebody had taken him shopping and brought him down to the rally then said "stand here and do what this guy does". The kid didn't even know how to perform a roman salute and raised his clenched fist instead, he then walked over to the Police commanders who were standing at the tram stop on Flinders St, a sergeant and an inspector took him by the elbow and led him back up to Swanston St where after a brief conversation he left the rally.

Nobody seems to know who the "Nazis" seen at Reclaim in Melbourne are, there were Nationalists there and they documented the proceedings on video but they were prevented from entering the square.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd_Zw0LeNPw#t=64
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAOzJ1i2prk

Poirot: the truth of the “Islamification” of Australia, is a little overblown when we consider that Muslims, as 2% of the population, possess little by way of political power, have no significant representation, and own no capacity to impose their will.

That, being said Poirot. Please explain. No deflections accepted.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=345183559016883&set=vb.237357993132774&type=2&theater

"yeah Poirot, just able to see how putried[sic]your dogmas are despite being dressed up as semi articulate. Your hatred of what is decent oozes from you despite your disguise."

(charming:)

Your problem, runner, is that in order to present yourself as whiter-than-white, you paint anyone who disagrees with or challenges you as black.

You appear to classify me (and others) under some generic abomination heading in your warped filing cabinet.

I didn't even know what Emily's List was until I came to this forum. I'm not renowned for speaking out on feminism here - in fact (if you cared to research, you'd find that I've been somewhat critical of the Western version often)

As for your low-down accusation regarding "slaughtering unborn babies" - what can I say? I've been pregnant twice in my life, and I'm the mother of two children.

That makes me a ...er...mum!

I don't repudiate a person's choice to follow a religion. I've mentioned that my two best friends are Christian - as is my favourite cousin (she's about to study to be a minister)..I've painted Christmas and Easter scenes for our local Salvo's Church (for free!) I have a portrait of Pope John Paul II hanging in the library at our Catholic Cathedral.

I do, however, object to nutters like Nalliah inventing pseudo connections with "God" for the purpose of pushing their own agenda.

I also object to malevolent sprites like yourself who employ their so-called "Christianity" merely as a shield to hide behind while they abuse people.

I've yet to see anything vaguely representative of Christ in your rantings.

'Your problem, runner, is that in order to present yourself as whiter-than-whit'

Yes Poirot and when in the ten years of posting have I ever done that. Again the feminist/socialist practice to totally misrepresent opponents in order to never face up to home truths. You might not of heard of emily's list which just shows how successful the socialist have been in brainwashing people like yourself without even knowing its source.

Lol!

I will second that Lol, and add a grimace too......

Poirot: I do, however, object to nutters like Nalliah inventing pseudo connections with "God" for the purpose of pushing their own agenda.

Strange Poirot that you have “no objection” to moslems pushing their crazy barrows.

As for Runner. We all know that JW’s are a strange bunch. Their beliefs are closer to Manichurian Christianity, which is the other of the choice of two that Constantine had to choose from. The one that he chose was, of course, Pauline Christianity. A matching set of four black Arab horses will do that to you every time. Ay.

Runner, I haven't seen old Jim around for some time. Is he OK? Oh, & those two little kids you sent around last time. That's not fair on them, sending them to me. You know that.

Oh, I don’t know what you complain about, concerning Feminism Poirot. Us men let you drink in the Public Bar now, don’t we. ;-)

I don’t suppose you’ve had time to watch the Chanel 7 Video I posted. Any comment on that?

Doesn't matter which side is right or wrong.

History clearly shows that this is the hostility that eventually
Raises its head in multicultural or dual cultural societies.

See it happening all over the world at the moment.
Hence millions of driven off and displaced people.

Incidentally Germany was a dual cultural society
Until one side aninilated the other.

The history books are full of the same.

Cherful,
Germany wasn't even one nation until 1871 and it was always multicultural and multi racial, the events you refer to (presumably 1941-44) are a gruesome reminder of how bloodthirsty socialism can be but don't reflect badly upon multiculturalism.
Reclaim is at it's core a simplistic attempt to migrate a Facebook group to the streets while expecting the rules of the internet to apply to the real world.

'Runner, I haven't seen old Jim around for some time. Is he OK? Oh, & those two little kids you sent around last time. That's not fair on them, sending them to me. You know that. '

sorry Jayb I have no idea what you are talking about. Please explain.

Cherful: Incidentally Germany was a dual cultural society. Incidentally Germany was a dual cultural society until one side aninilated the other.

It would have been more multi Religious rather than Dual Cultural. If Multicultural you mean Christians & Jews you are reading too much into the problem. The Religious Groups included Catholics, Lutherans, & a myriad of other Protestant Denominations. All who hated one another. The Political Groups included Socialists, Communists, Democrats, Monarchists & a few others. So you can't say Germany was a "Dual Society." That's just silly. All of the Political Groups encompassed all of the Religious Groups. So saying Germany was split (Dual)into two factions is even sillier.

Runner, you are a JW, aren't you & you do live around the Scenic Rim going on what you said in a previous Post. Or have I got the wrong bloke, if so, My apologies. Still JW's are a strange lot, weird even.

Poirot I await any comment on your naive claims, in relation to the Video I asked you to look at.

'Runner, you are a JW, aren't you & you do live around the Scenic Rim going on what you said in a previous Post. '

sorry Jayb no I am not a JW. They are a sect in serious error. I am a bible believing Christian.

Runner: They are a sect in serious error. (JW's)

I can't argue with that. I love giving them lessons in Christian History when they come knocking. ;-) JW's are a strange mixture of Marcion Christianity & Pauline Christianity. I suppose it's because it was only founded a little over 120 years ago.

Runner: I am a bible believing Christian.

Hmmmm.... they all claim that, & they all accuse one another of being in error. I guess it all comes down to, "Who is controlling the Masses." Ay.

Ahhh... Dogma. Doan ja jus luv it.

'Hmmmm.... they all claim that, & they all accuse one another of being in error.'

yes Jayb just like the multitudes of scientist that disagree on origins and secularist who come up with many conflicting theories of where they get their moral or immoral base. If you were do a tiny bit of research you will find dozens of dogmas on man made climate change also. Personally I choose to believe the One who I am convinced never lied.

Poirot and Suse, us three are on the wrong thread. This is the 'Monty Python' thread. It has all the hallmarks of that oh so funny British comedy. Runner has to be straight out of 'Life Of Brian' does he not, as for Jay and Jay well they remind me of a couple of member of The Judean People’s Front, the only ones they hate more than the Romans are The Peoples Front of Judea. LOL J of M pontificates like Reg.

http://explosivereports.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/followers_2023036i.jpg

Last weeks rally, That's Jay front right! By this time the pair of Nazi's mum had called, and told em to get home or she would give em a right bollocking and no supper. So they done a bunk and shot through!

Jay of Melbourne

You say Germany was always multicultural

Yes,and the World got pulled into 2 world wars because of it.

World War 1-the Germans ruled the territory occupied by the Serbs
The German Archduke paid a visit to the Serbian
Territories and was assassinated. The German Royal Family
Ordered the German Army to attack the Serbs.
The Serbs called on the Russians for help.
Germany was then at war with Russia.


Britain and Australia got pulled into the war because of
Various European Alliances who feared the mobilisation
Of the German and Russian Armies
But the war started between two cultural groups

The Serbs and the Germans in a dispute over territorial
Control.

World War 2 - the Great Depression threw 6million Germans out of work
In the years before the election of Hitler the German
people turned on the Jewish people, sacking them from
Their jobs and replacing them with white Saxon Germans

They stood outside Jewish shops and businesses and would
Allow no customers into their shops, often throwing rocks
And breaking all the windows

And then they elected
Hitler, as their instrument of destruction of the Jews and
Then turned their faces away and refused to see or stop the
The dispossession and annilation of a whole race of people
Being removed from their homes and possessions which
A German family quietly moved into to live, as soon as they
We're gone.

One culture completely annilating another because of severe
Economic hardship and the religious failure of the Jews to
Integrate at the bloodline level into the German tribe.
Thus setting up 2 dual cultures

Jayb
You say it was more likely a religious problem than
A dual cultural one.

Wars are never about religion, religion is the convienent
Excuse used to make murder holy in the eyes of the
Perpetrators.

Religious wars are exactly the same as non religious wars
And fought for exactly the same human reasons.
Religious groups are exactly the same as a cultural group, or more
Accurately tribe, when they refuse to marry outside their religion
Sometimes for several generations, decades or centuries.

They will then seek to drive off or kill all those on a shared territory
Who aren't of their tribal kin or bloodline most often because of
Their superior numbers and most often because of economic poverty
Or hardship. After all, the reason for the conflict is to take control
Of the territory and the sustanence and wealth there-in for themselves
And their
nearest bloodline,kin, family,tribe etc.

Pretend you are sitting in space observing this human species
For Thousands of years on earth.

You notice that they wage constant war.
What do they gain from this.
What is it they covet so much,that they will die
Or kill for.

At the end of most wars, a country, land, or territory is
Either won or lost. To the victor goes the spoils, the land ,wealth,
And women as well. To the loser there is dispossession,death,
Ethnic,tribal,or bloodline(same thing just different names)cleansing
Genetic extinction.

Yes religious groups are indeed tribes especially the strict fundamentalist ones
The Catholics kept trying to take control of England from that other tribe
The Protestants. They said they were fighting for the Catholic religion but
The proof was in their actions they wanted territorial control of England.

There is no need to speculate about Runners religious conviction. I assume he is a devout member of 'The Moon Faith' and fervently believes Jesus will return shortly in a pink Cadillac with Elvis at the wheel. Other than that I'm not sure what he believes. Happy to report Senator Nick Xenophon has moved to try and have the "church" status of that shonky organisation, the so called 'Church of Scientology’, investigated. Nick wants the mobs registration as a charity revoked in the wake of a damning documentary about the religion.
All these so called religions should be paying tax, the Catholic Church for example is getting away with billions of un-taxed dollars!

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/senator-nick-xenophon-asks-regulator-to-consider-revoking-church-of-scientologys-registration-as-a-charity/story-fni6uo1m-1227296188357

CHERFUL: Wars are never about religion,

There are two causes of War. Women & Religion. ;-)

CHERFUL: The Catholics kept trying to take control of England from that other tribe, The Protestants.

England was Catholic in the first place.

Paul1405: There is no need to speculate about Runners religious conviction.

Leave Runner alone at least he's Christian & not a mossie a saving grace by any means.

No word from poirot on the video of moslems taking over Australia yet. Ay. The same people who are grooming mossie kids, in another video, to kill the Australian Kaffers.

JayB given there are some 41,000 so called Christian Church denominations in the world, it would seem even the so called Christians can't agree with each other. You would have more chance of picking the winning lotto numbers than picking someones religion. Runner could be a member of The Old Order of the Amish Christian Church, hate to see the new order, they have been known to watch TV, a sinful bunch, or possibly a member of The Belarus Byzantine Orthodox Catholic Church. Say that when your drunk. I have no time for hypocritical religions, all of them.

I agree Paul, religion is at the root of all evil, as far as I am concerned.
People can dress that fact up as cultural problems if they like, but I still think that religion and all the rubbish beliefs involved, cause most problems.

I too was pleased to see that something is being done about the loony toon Scientology crowd, who apparently believe the aliens populated the earth!

I guess that is no more bizarre than believing some God will 'rise again' to 'save' us all....

Hey poirot,

http://concit.org/australia-under-islam-in-25-years-islamic-constitution-of-australia/

Any comment? Any comment from the islamists on this forum?

Jayb,

There are people on this forum who are worth engaging in a meaningful way - and there are serial pests who get their jollies from misrepresenting others and mischievously winding them up.

You fall into the latter category and, therefore, aren't worth the bother.

poirot: there are serial pests who get their jollies from misrepresenting others and mischievously winding them up.

Excuse me poirot but it was you who said, "There are no Islamic courts, no practice of its jurisprudence, no laws from the Quran, and yet on Saturday we saw Reclaim Australia rally violently, their placards demanding the country say “No to Sharia!”"

I begged to differ. There are Sharia Courts in Australia, as shown on TV. Then there are the Two Video's I gave you, proving that moslems in Australia are working to overthrow the Australian Government & install an Australian Caliphate & Sharia Law. Yet you refuse to see this because it suits you end game & support of moslems to take over Australian Freedom. Some moslems are staying quite but only as long as they are a small percentage. When it reaches 4% that's when the pressure from moslems will really start. That's what you are waiting for, isn't it. Where are your mossie mates? Are they afraid to answer my simple questions?

Jayb,

"Excuse me poirot but it was you who said, "There are no Islamic courts, no practice of its jurisprudence, no laws from the Quran, and yet on Saturday we saw Reclaim Australia rally violently, their placards demanding the country say “No to Sharia!”"

You're so on the ball that you can't differentiate between the body of a posted article and another poster's words.

I didn't "say that" - it was part of an article I posted.

I couldn't give a toss about your stupid "questions".

Why would I bother to address your concerns when you've proved to me in the past that you're content to make up whatever you please and falsely attribute it to fellow posters. And when asked to provide evidence, you head for the hills.

I don't debate posters who invent things to support their agenda.

Bye.

JayB, are you claiming popular support for these extremest, and you appear to be a wholehearted supporter of them, if not one of them. Try as they will, the evidence of the ballot box shows these people have no real support in the community. At times they put up candidates for election, but invariably they achieve an almost zero percent of the popular vote. I ask where is this popular support? Reading this thread one soon realises this "rally" was a farce.
I see you were at the Brisbane "rally", Pauline was there, is that as in Hanson, Australia's habitual political loser!

poirot: I didn't "say that" - it was part of an article I posted.

But, dear poirot, you posted the article to show what you believe to be true & to repudiate the claims of Reclaim Australia.

poirot: Why would I bother to address your concerns when you've proved to me in the past that you're content to make up whatever you please and falsely attribute it to fellow posters.

No, I don't make things up. I post videos of what is happening. Are you saying I make these up? Yes I did, even recently, requote the wrong person & apologized. Most of us have inadvertently done this on occasions no big deal.

Regarding the videos, poirot, are you ashamed of the moslems portrayed, or are you upset that they were caught out?

poirot: I couldn't give a toss about your stupid "questions".

Is that because I have proved my point & you're feeling caught out & ashamed? ;-) I only ask questions to find out how you really feel about things, & what you really believe & support? You rarely answer questions directly. You use the preferred tactics of a good moslem & use deflection to direct the conversation away from the original question.

paul1405: Another mossie supporter. They maybe a small bunch now, but as the number of moslems grows in Australia so their numbers will increase exponentially.

Poirot & paul1405, do you agree that these people should be deported as soon as possible so as not to contaminate the Moderate moslems?

JayB, which people are you referring to for deportation? What is the charge? Are they Australian citizens? These videos you are on about, I'll take a look, providing they are not of you in the bath tub with your rubber ducky! Where are they? I'm not searching!

Poirot, we might have to stop feeding the chooks on this thread, they are getting too fat on their own bigotry.

Paul,

Indeed....

He says:

".... I only ask questions to find out how you really feel about things, & what you really believe & support?..."

Here's "Jayb's style":

"It's strange, but poirot usually defends these practices by her Islamic friends.
Posted by Jayb, Friday, 20 June 2014 2:02:07 PM"

My reply:

"Jayb,

"It's strange, but poirot usually defends these practices by her Islamic friends."

Aside from Loudmouth deviating the domestic issue of SM's thread to his favourite "leftie donging weapon"...he at least keeps things relatively civil.

Show us your evidence, Jayb?

I mean - show us?

You've got eight posts a day on the general forum to repost my supposed defences of Islamic atrocities to women.

You won't do it because they don't exist - and you're one vacuous little man who mendaciously misrepresents your fellow poster whenever the opportunity arises.

It's easy to lie - and then scuttle out the door.

Most of us choose not to....
Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 21 June 2014 8:54:39 AM"

Jayb's response:

"poirot: my supposed defences of Islamic atrocities to women.

All your previous posts concerning atrocities committed in the defence of Islamic Sharia Law. Not specifically women.

poirot: you're one vacuous little man who mendaciously misrepresents your fellow poster whenever the opportunity arises.

No. I just like to keep some people honest. Also, when questioned on specifics like this your usual tactic is to deflect the question.
Posted by Jayb, Saturday, 21 June 2014 9:24:33 AM"

My reply:

"Jayb,

"All your previous posts concerning atrocities committed in the defence of Islamic Sharia Law. Not specifically women."

Okay...cough 'em up?

Talking of specifics...show us the posts where I defend "any" Islamic atrocities?

That's not difficult if they exist, surely.

Your problem is that they don't exist and you are being dishonest in your accusations.

Show us...

"No. I just like to keep some people honest. Also, when questioned on specifics like this your usual tactic is to deflect the question."

I'm not deviating here...I'm calling you out on your dishonesty.

Come on...produce the goods.
Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 21 June 2014 10:13:33 AM"

Who could be bothered debating that kind of dishonesty....

Paul1405: JayB, which people are you referring to for deportation? What is the charge?

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=345183559016883&set=vb.237357993132774&type=2&theater
http://concit.org/australia-under-islam-in-25-years-islamic-constitution-of-australia/

The Charge. Treason. Inciting Violence. & Racist.

Poirot: Your problem is that they don't exist and you are being dishonest in your accusations.

Are you saying you haven’t supported anything Islamic? I’m dam sure you have over the last few years. Mostly by refusing to answer the question & deflecting the question off to another unrelated argument. That is tacit support. You really haven’t got the guts to answer any question directly, ever.

You have refused to answer the questions I have put recently. As in you reply;

Poirot: I couldn't give a toss about your stupid "questions".
9 April 2015

You deflect any questions given to you by anyone. That’s why you can say

Poirot: I don't debate posters who invent things to support their agenda.

Are you saying I invented the above two videos? I have shown you a myriad of videos over the past years & asked for your comments. Nothing has been answered directly by you. Always, with the, “I couldn't give a toss about your stupid "questions".” Nice Islamic debating style. Must be feeling guilty.

You get eight posts? I only get four, what's going on?

Jayb,

The reason I've chosen not to engage you "on subject" is because of my prior experience in you accusing me of posting specific things - which I've not posted.

When requested to provide evidence for your claims, you are the one who has "deviated" blathering something about them all being somewhere or other....etc, etc.

Now you're mumbling in your boots about me providing "tacit" support for all the "nasties" because I refuse to condemn Islamic people from fleeing war zones and being afforded the right to live in peace if they have been deemed to have refugee status.

Again I ask - why would I interact with you "on subject" when time and time again you have demonstrated to me that you make things up, attribute them to others and refuse to provide evidence of your fantasies.

There's no requirement to answer questions just because somebody on here asks them - just as there's no obligation to view videos just because someone links to them...especially if that someone has proven disingenuous in previous dealings.

Btw...you do get eight posts a day per thread in the "General" section of the forum - you get four posts a day per thread in the Articles section.

Poirot: The reason I've chosen not to engage you "on subject" is because of my prior experience in you accusing me of posting specific things - which I've not posted.

This is just diversion because you are afraid to answer the Questions, truthfully, or you could Taqiyya. Ay.

When requested to provide evidence for your claims, you are the one who has "deviated" blathering something about them all being somewhere or other....etc, etc.

poirot: Now you're mumbling in your boots about me providing "tacit" support for all the "nasties" because I refuse to condemn Islamic people from fleeing war zones and being afforded the right to live in peace if they have been deemed to have refugee status.

Yep, that's right. Your support for people like Monis. A proven refugee fleeing terror. Your support for the Islamic Goons condemning Australia's freedom, Democracy & Culture, as shown in the video. Their New Constitution for Australia, as shown in the video. You haven't condemned that either. Therefore you have given tacit support to these people & their plan for Australia. They were proven refugees fleeing terror too. You say you support these proven refugees. By refusing to condemn these people you must support their Aims as well.

"Yep, that's right. Your support for people like Monis. A proven refugee fleeing terror. Your support for the Islamic Goons condemning Australia's freedom, Democracy & Culture, as shown in the video. Their New Constitution for Australia, as shown in the video. You haven't condemned that either. Therefore you have given tacit support to these people & their plan for Australia. They were proven refugees fleeing terror too. You say you support these proven refugees. By refusing to condemn these people you must support their Aims as well."

There ya go, folks....Jayb's got no-one to argue with, so off he goes merrily and mendaciously making it up as he goes along.

What a nice guy!

What an honest specimen - Lol!

I like this one:

"....Your support for people like Monis...."

Double Lol!

Come on Jayb - cough up proof on that one?

But let me say, that I look forward to interacting with you somewhere down the track when you've learned to stop unloading whoppers as part of your repertoire : )

................

('Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.' - Winston Churchill)

Send us a postcard!

Have I read this convoluted exchange correctly? Is there really someone who claims that Islamic atrocities against women don't exist? No capture of Hazidi women as sex slaves? No Boko Haram up to the same thing? No outrages in Rotherham because dhimmitude is so entrenched in the UK that gutless police feared to go against multiculturalism? No acid in the faces of little girls in Afghanistan to discourage seeking of education? No women put to death in Mozzieland for "adultery"? No FGM in compliance with Islamic "cultures"? No Islamic bullet fired into the skull of Malala Yousafzai for supporting women's education, deemed by Islam as "unislamic"?

Hell, I'm not referring just to atrocities by Islam against all infidels (us) or misbehaviour by Moslems not derived from their cult, - merely atrocities against women because they are women and because something about them is deemed by Moslems to be unislamic. Covering for Islam by denying this seems to be on a level with covering up Nazi crimes by denial that they ever happened.

Face it - crimes specifically against women are derived from the instructions openly published in the Moslems' faux "holy books". A bit of serious study of these books might help. Try Ibn Warraq, Raymond Ibrahim, Bill Warner.

Rundle: how to defeat Reclaim Australia
Guy Rundle
Crikey
April 9, 2015
http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10152971136574355&id=303648619354&substory_index=0

Emperor Julian
"Covering for Islam by denying this seems to be on a level with covering up Nazi crimes by denial that they ever happened."

Not quite, the problem with Nazi crimes is that from a technical standpoint it's a difficult subject to discuss in anything but very vague, general terms and holocaust denial is never any more specific in it's arguments than holocaust affirmation.
We as lay people can only argue our point if we are on solid ground and have information which is both factual and comprehensible to other laymen, we don't get to preach rhetoric or use allegory in the way that "educated" people do.
Both Reclaim and No Room For Racism are vague and non specific in their treatment of Islam because there are no competent laymen between the zealots at the top and the ordinary participant, this is why subjects such as immigrant violence and criminal tendencies within Lebanese, African and West Asian ethnic groups aren't on the agenda.
Holocaust affirmation and holocaust denial can't bear any scrutiny or stand up to a critical analysis, for exactly the same reasons neither can Reclaim or No Room For Racism it's only when competent laymen are prepared to sit and debate specifics that any movement can occur.
Honestly though who could be bothered? Nobody from the Left is going to take up an explicitly pro Islam position for reasons of political correctness nor is Reclaim going to talk about race or ethnicity due the limitations of it's own brand of PC.

Poirot: I refuse to condemn Islamic people from fleeing war zones and being afforded the right to live in peace if they have been deemed to have refugee status.

Yet you continually refuse to say you condemn refugees who break Australian Laws, Eg; Paedophiles, F.M.G, Multiple Marriages, Any moslem who calls for the overthrow of Australia Democracy, Culture & freedoms.

You won’t condemn, Halal Certification or the introduction of Sharia Law into Australia, in part or in full.

Your silence on these matters, when asked, would make anybody to believe that you support them. I have asked you what you think of the group in the video I sent you. You refuse to answer. I have asked your opinion of the “New moslem Constitution for Australia” put forward by this group. You have refused to answer. In fact you never answer a question directly. You then deflect by accusing me of something unrelated to the present questions.

poirot: Again I ask - why would I interact with you "on subject" when time and time again you have demonstrated to me that you make things up, attribute them to others and refuse to provide evidence of your fantasies.

Are you accusing me of engineering these videos just to get at you? Are you saying that these videos are fake? The only “others” involved in this case are the people who are in the video & those wrote the New moslem Constitution for Australia.

I ask again. Do you support the people in the video’s views & do you support the New moslem Constitution for Australia? Just a simple “Yes” or “No” is all I ask.

Emperor Julian,

"Have I read this convoluted exchange correctly? Is there really someone who claims that Islamic atrocities against women don't exist?..."

No you haven't read it correctly...I have "never" on this forum discussed those "specific" issues.

Hence, my beef, with Jayb for insinuating that I have. As an example of how these things usually unfold, I came onto this thread to discuss the reclaim rallies - the next thing I know good old Jayb is thrusting videos at me which I haven't the time or inclination to view, and when I inform him that I don't wish to interact with him "on subject" because of prior experiences with his dishonesty - out he comes with his worn out spiel.

"...Covering for Islam by denying this seems to be on a level with covering up Nazi crimes by denial that they ever happened."

Well there ya go....as pointed out above, I've never "denied" or "covered" anything in this area, merely because I've never debated them on OLO - and now I have people just assuming that Jayb's load of old cobblers is fact.

Okay boys, again....repost all the posts where I have discussed Islamic atrocity issues - ever.

Repost all the posts where I have "ever" denied or defended any Islamic atrocities - anywhere.

Jayb,

"Are you accusing me of engineering these videos just to get at you? Are you saying that these videos are fake? The only “others” involved in this case are the people who are in the video & those wrote the New moslem Constitution for Australia."

Try and get this into your head....I don't care about you or your penchant for passing off whoppers as fact....I don't care about your videos. I haven't watched them. They are not important to me...

Again...you're the one with the fetish for these things...I'm not i-n-t-e-r-e-s-t-e-d.

Jayb, you are such an Einstein. I've never specifically stated on OLO that I repudiate NAZI atrocities during WWII...or the ravages of Attila the Hun...or Caligula.

By your ingenious calculations that makes me a supporter of them all.

(Nor have you for that matter....Lol!)

If Danny Nalliah was the main speaker at the Melbourne rally he is certainly not white Australian, he was born in Pakistan of Middle Eastern heritage. He does have some weird claims but he cannot boast of European heritage.

Poirot: I've never specifically stated on OLO that I repudiate NAZI atrocities during WWII...or the ravages of Attila the Hun...or Caligula.

Hmmm.... so what you are saying poirot is, you never give your own opinion on anything. You just bag everybody elses. ;-) Sounds about right. Ay.

Josephus,
Reclaim aren't a White movement, the idea that the demonstrators were pro White or "racist" is a fiction made up by the No Room For Racism group, the latest bone Reclaim have decided to pick is the move to deport a young autistic boy and his mother back to their home in the Phillipines.
Danny Nalliah worships the Jews and Israel, that's why he's opposed to Islam and the reason Catch The Fire decided to hijack the Reclaim rally in Melbourne, we call his faith "Holocaustianity".
In Victoria you don't need to get permission to hold a rally it's first in best dressed, that's how simply by arriving an hour and a half early the CTF and "Nazis" were able to take over the rally and keep the Reclaim supporters out of the square.

"Hmmm.... so what you are saying poirot is, you never give your own opinion on anything. You just bag everybody elses. ;-) Sounds about right. Ay."

Let's get this straight, Jayb.

The reason I have "bagged you" is to call you out on your dishonesty.

You can't expect to go about merrily generalising and attributing things to people that they didn't espouse.

You do get that that is the wrong thing to do - don't you?

I do take responsibility for even bothering to interact with you, given my prior experiences with your style...even so, this will probably be the last time.

This forum abounds with characters who love to flame. I used to enjoy coming here when there was a better balance of views. These days, however, I really can't fathom why I keep coming back. 90% of the posters around here I wouldn't address at all in real life.

I don't have the same experience on twitter. Perhaps the reason for that is if one happens to interact with someone with differing views - and that person becomes "persistent" with abuse of general odium - all you have to do is press the "Block" button, and they never appear on your timeline again.

That's a great mechanism.

Think I'll moseying along now....

trying to define reclaim is as difficult as defining Pauline Hanson followers. They are mixed and varied although not nearly as violent and opposed to free speach as the idiots (Socialist) full of self righteousness who opposed them. The bigotted woman who was on Q&A last representing the socialist was far more dangerous than most of the reclaim supporters.

Poirot: I used to enjoy coming here when there was a better balance of views.

So you can bag them, but not put forward any views yourself as you said in you post below.

Poirot: I've never specifically stated on OLO that I repudiate NAZI atrocities during WWII...or the ravages of Attila the Hun...or Caligula.

Hmmm.... so what you are saying poirot is, you never give your own views on anything. You just bag everybody else's.

These are your words, not ones I have supposedly invented.

You won't look at any videos I post because you know that it would prove that Islam is working to take over Australia eventually. Moderates do have these aims also. You wouldn't like to have to admit that they have your covert support.

runner, "The bigoted woman who was on Q&A last representing the socialist was far more dangerous than most of the reclaim supporters"

Correct

The leftist 'Progressives' aka Fabians (the self-titled "Wolves in Sheep's Clothing") aka International Socialists who have already won the cultural war would gag any dissenting voice. Not that there are many people going on Q&A to present an alternative view or even to exercise their freedom of speech. On Q&A any challenge or even questioning of the prevailing political correctness is sneered at, quickly cut and howled down by the audience.

Where does Q&A get its audiences? There always seems to be an abundance of people who swing from the taxpayer's teat in some way or other. Since Whitlam there have been so many with plenty of time on their hands and guvvy incomes/grants to protect.

From reviewing Poirot’s posts in this thread I can see that I was wrong in implying that she had claimed that Islamic atrocities against women didn’t exist.

[break for quotations]
Quoting: “You've got eight posts a day on the general forum to repost my supposed defences of Islamic atrocities to women.”
“You won't do it because they don't exist”

“Talking of specifics...show us the posts where I defend "any" Islamic atrocities?
”That's not difficult if they exist, surely. Your problem is that they don't exist.”
[break for end of quotations]

Because of its ambiguity (“they don’t exist” refers to defences of Islamic atrocities against women, not to the atrocities themselves) I fastened on the second meaning, not the first. My regret is mild, falling way short of apology, because I have never seen any concern from this poster about the openly declared war of Islam against the natural rights of humanity cherished by the vast majority of the post-Enlightenment world, especially after bearing the hideous cost of protecting these rights against German and Jap aggression. I referred to the especially disgusting anti-female front of Islam's global attack against all of us in my earlier post.

I do not refer Poirot or anyone else to any videos. Arguments are written down - videos are performances.

EJ: I do not refer Poirot or anyone else to any videos. Arguments are written down - videos are performances.

My reason for posting videos is for when someone eg; Poirot, Arjay, & any other mossie lovers here ask for proof of atrocities, I can provide it in the form of a video or their own Koran. Usually of their Learned Imams preaching "for" the very thing that these posters say don't exist. When the proofs are provided they refuse to look at them because, they know, they have been Gazumpt. That is, of course, when the diversions & deflections come out in force. Clearing throats & ahhhhhh's, then they disappear off that thread or refuse to answer any questions about that subject. Gawd, you'd think I was dealing with children or politicians. Ay.

Emperor Julian,

No problem....I put up those old posts of Jayb's to moi as an example of the sort of rhetoric he employs towards me. That also should furnish posters with a clue as to why I refuse to engage him on topic.

Jayb,

I don't think after all these years and my many posts that anyone could accuse me of not putting forth an opinion on myriad subjects.

My weakness is suspending debate occasionally to address posters like yourself who get their jollies from misrepesenting other posters. I tend to think that that sort of low-down behaviour isn't in the spirit of honourable debate and discussion.

Your sentence above: "My reason for posting videos is for when someone eg; Poirot, Arjay, & any other mossie lovers here ask for proof of atrocities, I can provide it in the form of a video or their own Koran." - gives an indication of the sort of rhetoric you employ to make your hollow points.

I have no connection with any Muslim people. My comments on this forum pertain to treating other humans fairly.

I understand that you have what appears to be a hysterical bee in your bonnet over the idea of Muslim immigration. That's your prerogative. I don't see why you need to slam fellow posters with entirely concocted accusations regarding their posting history on this site to further your arguments.

If you can't debate honestly - without getting down in the gutter - then you shouldn't complain when you get "bagged" for your efforts.

poirot: My comments on this forum pertain to treating other humans fairly.

That's why I went to the Reclaim Australia Rally.

Having to pay a fake Jizyah Tax in the form of Halal Fee is not treating all people fairly. Sharia Law does not treat all people equally & fairly, especially women. The Koran does not treat all people fairly, especially non-moslems.

Where do you stand on that?

poirot: I don't think after all these years and my many posts that anyone could accuse me of not putting forth an opinion on myriad subjects.

poirot: "...Covering for Islam by denying this seems to be on a level with covering up Nazi crimes by denial that they ever happened."

I do believe that was EmperorJulian, Friday, 10 April 2015. Not me.

You are attributing things to me that are not. is that something like, " when time and time again you have demonstrated to me that you make things up, attribute them to others and refuse to provide evidence of your fantasies."

Poirot: I've never specifically stated on OLO that I repudiate NAZI atrocities during WWII...or the ravages of Attila the Hun...or Caligula.

It has been revealed that Vincent Stanford the man accused of the murder of Leeton school teacher Stephanie Scott was a Neo-Nazi. Stanford was sympathetic towards the Nazi Rudolf Hess and liked Nazi marching songs. There is a warning here about these extreme elements in society and the perverted motives of their unstable minds.

'It has been revealed that Vincent Stanford the man accused of the murder of Leeton school teacher Stephanie Scott was a Neo-Nazi.'

yeah Paul for decades now the left has argued that people are not affected by what they watch or listen to. Always has been a very dumb and deceitful dogma.

Paul,
That's exactly what Reclaim Australia are saying about Muslims and Trotskyites, if you really bellieve what you've posted you have to make the same allowance for the claims of Reclaim and others.
The accused in the Leeton outrage seems to have been obsessed with politically correct video games and TV shows more so than the National Socialist marching tunes he supposedly upvoted on Youtube. The games he favoured such as Gears Of War, Fallout and Halo are explicitly anti totalitarian, anti war, pro multiculturalism and anti racist and Stargate, his favourite TV show is so stupidly PC it's practically unwatchable.
So a "Nazi" was obsessed with this cast, to the point of spending his teenage years writing fan fiction concerning them:
http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/wallpaper_cast_01_1920_129476522817.jpg
Commenting on a few videos doesn't make someone a "Nazi", I know a serving police officer who has collected and traded National Socialist memorabilia for over twenty years and he "likes" posts regarding same on social media but he's the most anti racist person getting about. The fact is that people who admire the memory of National Socialism and post about it online are harmless geeks just like the people who post pictures of Spanish Anarchists or Kurdish militia on this group:
http://www.facebook.com/groups/1048266218534852/
As we say on the alternative right, it's just LARPing, fantasy game playing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_action_role-playing_game

What is ShaRia Law exactly.

It seems to me the main focus of sharia law is to
Subjagate women.

Moslem men are hardly ever held to account for their
Crimes against women, and children,(underaged brides)
Under Sharia Law. It is a thinly vieled stick for total
Male domination of women.

No matter that some may say that is not ts purpose in the Koran
The first thing that happens whenever sharia law is declared
Anywhere, is the total covering of women and laws that offer them absolutely
No justice unlike mem who are excused from all kinds of vile acts in the Sharia Court system.

Cherful,
Sharia law is an ideal like socialism, think of it as the perfect society or the golden age before the kingdom of god on earth. Like Socialism before it sharia law is only partially implemented in all existing Islamic societies, what ISIS are trying to do is bring in total Sharia with all it's social benefits as well as it's strictures, again, think of them as akin to the Khmer Rouge or the Sturmabteilung "Brownshirts". A society under Sharia looks good on paper and so does Socialism, but as with all utopian fantasies the reality is always quite different, these movements typically kill around 15% of the population in the initial revolution and have to revert to more traditional forms of authoritarian government once in power.
The Reclaim Australia supporters have a sense of foreboding when they hear of Sharia law being implemented in limited areas in Australian society, they see any concession by politicians to the demands of Muslims as submission and fear the inevitable negative consequences of "creeping" or piecemeal implementation of Islamic law.
The future they fear looks a lot like Saudi Arabia, a corrupt oligarchy at the top, Islamic fanatics ruling the streets and dissent ruthlessly suppressed by secret police. What they found out on April 4 was that the corrupt elite in this country are protected by Trotskyite and Anarchist fanatics and dissent is suppressed by a complicit media as well as the secret police, the main difference is that Saudi Arabian media doesn't pretend to be objective.

We have Frist world, second world, and third world people all trying to live in this wonderful country called Australia...I see many "want-to-be's..but yet no winners?...Why is that?...There is NO "REAL" thought perception to why we hate each other, there is only the Human factor that suspects the common "who are you"

Think about it:)...Don't use too many brain cells at once:)..I find it gives a me a headache:)...The world as one.....

"Reclaim Australia?"

I wasn't yours to begin with....so where are you now?

Tally

Tally,
Yeah actually Australia does belong to the Australian ethnic group and the descendants of the pre 1788 population have overwhelmingly voted with their feet to be part of that nation.
"Reclaim What?" is both stupid and racist because it robs Aboriginals of their agency and uses them as a shield, the left need a shield because they don't have an answer to Reclaim Australia.

Jay,
<<That's exactly what Reclaim Australia are saying about Muslims and Trotskyites, if you really bellieve what you've posted you have to make the same allowance for the claims of Reclaim and others.>>

My point is, if this guy is guilty, he is an extreme example of the extreme and waht they are capable of. What I say is ALL these extremist have a propensity to violence and should be treated as a danger to society. The saving grace is they are only small in number but society should be weary of them, and what motivates them. What do crazy Nazi's, crazy Muslims, crazy Trotskyites all have in common besides being fanatical, they are all crazy. For these people there is no room for compromise, they are driven by hatred, and can not see that there is an alternative. If necessary they will resort to violence to enforce their will on others. Some find these fools mildly amusing in their silly uniforms, with the way out rhetoric, or ridiculous teachings, stupid rallies, but the moderates of society, the vast majority, should be weary that these people are indeed dangerous, Man Monis was a prime example of the danger of just one.

Paul1405, for you to say "Man Monis was a prime example of the danger of just one", is to repeat the fear espoused by the genuine members of Reclaim. We have today Muslims stating for Australians to remember ANZAC is an affront to Turkish Muslims, and "Australia Day" should be changed to "Citizens Day" to include all cultures. Decide who you will support.

Josephus, you refer to "the genuine members of Reclaim". From their rather amateurish website I find this odd reference to "The learned Elders of Zion". I'll ask you to name the leadership of this cloak and dagger organisation? Again their web site offers nothing as to who is the leadership, in fact to quote it "This (the Elders of Zion) is a secret which has not been revealed. They are the Hidden hand". The web site then goes on to say a lot about Jews. I can only conclude this is an extremists Neo-Nazi organisation peddling some sort of religious hate nonsense.

http://reclaimaustralia.net/?hc_location=ufi

Paul,
Have a look at the sidebar of that site, it was last updated in 2011, it's obviously nothing to do with the current Reclaim rallies.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Reclaim-Australia-Rally-Australia-wide/762398587169729
From what I can gather Reclaim support comes from about 90% White/Europeans and 10% other races, basically an accurate representation of working class Australia.

Jay, the other web site on their Facebook, 'Nortons' came up with it being a malicious site.
The site I linked too is also on their Facebook.posted by one Jimmy Reid, if this mob didn't agree with Mr Reid they could remove his post, but they choose not to do so. Why?

Paul,
No idea, maybe they don't believe in censorship? Look I don't follow these people on social media and frankly I'm not interested in what they say about Islam, if it turns into a wider anti government movement it could be interesting but I won't hold my breath.

As I never heard of Reclaim Australia before the rally, I was surprised by anger and violence directed by the anti reclaim rallies towards the reclaim rally, and the expressions by the anti reclaim participants that they wanted to stop these hateful ideas from being expressed.

I share no values with either the reclaim or anti reclaim crowd, as I see no threat of the imposition of Sharia in Aus nor as an atheist do I care whether my food is Halal, Kosher or blessed by fairies as long as it tastes good and is priced competitively, nor do I have any time for the bogans of the left who often resort to violence and who feel that while they have the right to express their opinions (interlaced with expletives), they also have the right to deny others the opportunity to express theirs.

A pox on both their houses.

Tally
"Reclaim Australia?"

It wasn't yours to begin with....so where are you now?

In fact, Australia is controlled by the Anglo Saxon Europeans,
in that sense, it is theirs. Every country in the world including democratic countries are held at the point of a gun.

Meaning, that if the army in Australia was all Aboriginal or Asian
or Moslem
then Anglo Saxon Europeans wouldn't be running this country.

The military take over in Fiji in recent times is a perfect example of this. When the dissenters ran to the law courts at
the injustice of the army take-over, the military simply shut
down the law courts.

The fact is, the Anglo Saxons in this country allow all these
ethnic groups to run to the law courts because we believe, or so
we say, in justice for all, but if we didn't, our army could
stop all that tomorrow. As many armies in the world do.

This country was taken at the point of a gun and is still held at
the point of a gun. An inconvenient truth for some, who think they can turn the world their way.

Only when the army or the men with guns permit this, my friends. And at present you are being allowed to do this by a benign army and political system.
Make no mistake, Europeans presently own this country by the law of a superior military force. I realise that could change.
Obviously the opposers of Reclaim Australia are too thick to realise that.

Australian Europeans , are stupidly letting all these other groups have too much control.

Lets see how much regard they have for justice and the so-called
rightful owners of this country, if ever they control the army.

When that happens it won't look
anything like justice and fairness for the rights of the individual, because it will be Sharia Law or just plain
ethnic cleansing for the non-army ethnic groups.
Now that is the real truth.

Cherful,
Australia= "South Land".
Australian= "Person of the south".
If your customs, language and allegiances are from the north, east, or west you're not an Australian.
Real Australians have largely abandoned the customs of Europe, including it's religion, it's politics,it's history and to a large degree it's languages, we don't speak English, we speak Australian.

Islamic immigration. the dumb country.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=979031385443225&fref=nf

Jay of Melbourne

<If your customs, language and allegiances are from the north, east, or west, you're not an Australian.
Real Australians have largely abandoned the customs of Europe, including it's religion, it's politics,it's history and to a large degree it's languages, we don't speak English, we speak Australian.>

Tell that to a lot of the ethnic groups here.
Who still speak their own language,refuse to abandon their cultural customs,religions,politics,history and wars from their north,east and west,previous homelands. Obviously, they fit your above description of not being real Australians.

And isn't that exactly what the reclaim Australia group is trying to say.

Further to my above post.

We are not a cohesive nation at all, but a nation of
divided, devisiveness.

AUSTRALIA, in the geographic sense exists.
But Australians, in the national one people sense, doesn't exist.

Our loyalties are tribal.

Reclaim Australia has a much wider scope than opposition to the Islamic Fifth Column. Its platform spelled out at http://www.reclaim-australia.com/ is social engineering little better than that preached in the Koran or Mein Kampf.

My point of view is that of a fifth generation Australian with ancestry going back in Australia and Britain as far back as records go, though possibly sullied by contributions from the Thief of Normandy. Blue, blue chip. A point of view and an ethnicity shared by a large number of “traditional” Australians. Maybe even some on this thread.

I’d support the first sentence (but not the second) in #1; Sharia Law should be confined to those who freely accept it for themselves, while vigorously opposed and debunked socially. I don’t share any of the values in #2. Fully support #3. Not support #4 (halal and kosher certification for those prepared to pay for it quite acceptable but no jizya foisted on the rest of us). #5: Prefer the Eureka flag to the British flag embedded in the Australian flag. Not enamoured of the anthem proclaiming us as young – most of us are no longer teenyboppers and many have Australian ancestry going back tens of thousands of years. Fully support #6 but should apply to all religion and extend to all schools. #7: oppose banning the burqa though hostile to and contemptuous of anyone who wears it (same as Nazi symbolism). Totally support #8. Also #9 provided “first marriage” doesn’t exclude remarriage.

So there you have it. A British-derived fifth generation Aussie who can fully support fewer than half the nine prescriptions. I won’t be marching with them – little better than the enemy Sieg Heil fests of the 1930s

Emperor Julian, I think that's the point, you proudly trace your ancestry back to foreign country whereas Australian civic patriots only care about birthright and posterity, it's wholly concerned with today and tomorrow, the "traditions" they speak of are the civic nationalist ideals of the 1970's and '80's.
If the Reclaim Australia group weren't so squeamish about National Socialism they could have modified it's platform to suit their own agenda and few people would have been any the wiser because very few "Anti Racists" know anything at all about Racism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program#The_25-point_Program_of_the_NSDAP
How many of those 25 points could you get behind Julian?

To Jay of Melbourne: I'd get behind no more than one or two of the 25 points and would be totally opposed to nearly all of them as a festering concoction of racist arrogance. It would be just as vile if "English" was substituted for "German" throughout. But as Germany was a criminal nation at the time (having committed aggression against a neighbour, for a start) it was even viler than if the nation spoken for was innocent of the despicable crime of aggression. And no I don't speak with special pride about my racial heritage but only to demonstrate opting out of the expectation that the ridiculous ideology of Reclaim Australia would or should appeal to people on the basis of British stock and long family identity as Australian.

Emperor Julian

I like you, used to favour the Eureka Flag,
but then I realised it would not sit well with many
of the ethnic groups in Australia because
it has in the middle, a huge white cross.

Those who are familiar with the flag would know, that the
cross is not a religious symbol but the sign of the Southern Cross
star pattern, which can be seen in the skies of the "Great Southern Land" at night.

Most ethnic groups and new immigrants, plus people at the Olympics
would no doubt think of it as being a religious symbol of Christianity.
So it would probably cause more dissent than the current Australian Flag. Idont think a big white cross would go down too
well with our Islamic citizens. So they would be alienated by the
look of that cross in the middle for a start.

I think now, keep the beautiful colours of the flag, with the dark blue sky and stars, just put something different in the union Jack corner. Maybe a red kangaroo or desert flower. Maybe a sprig of red bottlebrush flower or a yellow wattle flower.

Or a square the same size in the corner depicting the 3 colours or is it two colours,of the Aboriginal people. Especially the beautiful reddish colour in their flag.

The blue with the white stars with a dash of red just look so beautiful together, it would be a shame to change those. Maybe someone could come up with another pattern or symbol that has that red blend in the corner that would be recognised and accepted by every group as a flag they could more readily embrace.

What an insult to those that gave their lives to protect the values our flag represents. It has history unlike the single sentiments of those that want to change it to appease new migrants that do not understand the values it represents. It represents a unity of culture, law and spiritual values fought to give freedom from tyranny and oppression.

Jay, give it an Australian context can I presume you would agree with the Nazi's 25 point policy?

Point 1 We demand the unification of all Anglo's in the Greater Australia on the basis of the people's right to self-determination.

So when do we invade New Zealand and get rid of those pesky Aboriginals and Maori's.

Josephus, fine sentiments, but is it true?

Cherful: we say, in justice for all, but if we didn't, our army could stop all that tomorrow. As many armies in the world do.

Sorry Cher but you are Wrong. The Constitution says the Army cannot intervene in any Government or Domestic Dispute. Courtesy of Peter Laylor. (Remember him) On top of that the Australian Army Law Manual (Book 7) especially forbids the Army of taking arms against the Civilian Population except in cases of Insurrection & then only to restore order, not take sides. The Armed Forces cannot assume Command of Australia at any time or any reason. Yes I know they have a new Manual but the proviso is still there.

Cherful: Lets see how much regard they have for justice and the so-called rightful owners of this country,

Errr, That’s why the Aboriginal Groups were there. The moslems didn’t turn up at the Brisbane on.

Cherful: Tell that to a lot of the ethnic groups here. Who still speak their own language, refuse to abandon their cultural customs, religions, politics, history and wars from their north ,east and west ,previous homelands. Obviously, they fit your above description of not being real Australians.

I grew up with, mostly Italians who arrived in the 50’s. Most of them spoke some English before they arrived but had to adapt tp Australian. As far as I know they were all Catholic. The Dutch & Germans were Lutheran. The ones from the Balkans & Greece were various Orthodox. The Poms were C of E Z& OPD. They were all Christian. In the 70’s the Asians coming from Viet Nam were mostly Catholic & some Buddhists. All these people integrated well. Well some of the older people didn’t, or Couldn’t learn the Language but encouraged their children to do whatever they could to adapt to their new country.

Unfortunately, this last lot of immigrants have escaped Tyranny only to want to set up the same system of tyranny they escaped from. Strange that.

Cherful: And isn't that exactly what the reclaim Australia group is trying to say.

Exactly. That’s why I went

Josephus,
I can relate to the spiritual values of the Cross of Saint George and the Cross of St Andrew, plus the Stars on our flag but what spiritual or any other value does the Cross of St Patrick have?

Is Mise: what spiritual or any other value does the Cross of St Patrick have?

St. Patrick is the Patron Saint of Ireland.
St. David is the Patron Saint of Wales.
St. Andrew is the Patron Saint of Scotland.
St. George is the Patron Saint of England.

These are all represented on the Union Flag which is the proper name for the Flag of the United Kingdom. AMQ.

Jayb,

The Cross of St Patrick has no spiritual significance as St Patrick's only cross was the small one that he carried as a Christian missionary.

The so-called diagonal red cross on the Union Flag is a con; it is the
Saltire of the Geraldines (the FitzGeralds) a Norman family that settled in Ireland and became "Níos Gaelaí ná na Gaeil féin", more Irish than the Irish.
Their Saltire was used by the ".....Most Illustrious Order of Saint Patrick [which] is a British order of chivalry associated with Ireland."

In 1801 when the Act of Union was forced on the Irish it became necessary to add the Irish emblem to the Union Flag, but as the Irish emblem was the golden harp of Brian Boru there was only one point on the flag where it could be put and not spoil the symetrical layout of the flag.

That was in the centre, and that would never do!!

So the Saltire on the badge of the Order of St Patrick (commonly the Knights of St Patrick) was hastily chosen and then called the Cross of St Patrick.
See any good book on the Vexillology for a detailed explanation of this historical con job.
A con job that was most successful as the Saltire of the Geraldines has been carried at the head of more than one St Patrick's Day march in the mistaken but fervent belief that it was Saint Pat's very own cross.

A day you don't learn something is a day wasted.

Thank you for that, Is Mise. I'll put it in my box of History tricks & research some more on the Origins of the Flag.

Still, that is the accepted make up of the Union Jack as taught in Schools World wide.