To achieve and maintain a harmonious democracy, and to some extent an egalitarian society, it is necessary to employ the maximum possible number. Then ensure the remuneration of the many is sufficient, to firstly adequately provide for their basic needs, and then cater to some extent to that populaces economic wants. In a complex democratic society like Australia this mix of needs and wants is obscure and forever changing. What our parents required to see them maintaining this social equilibrium is different to what is required in today's society.
In a purely market driven capitalistic society like Australia it is impossible to have social and economic equality for all, and maintain the democracy without government intervention. Australia shortly after its foundation as a nation seen the necessity in setting up the mechanism to ensure a basic minimum livable wage was achieved. This body was formed in 1904 as The Commonwealth Court of Conciliation and Arbitration and it has existed to this day. One of the basic functions of the court is to determine what the minimum wage should be. This interventionist body has severed Australia well, but there are those who would wish for its destruction, replaced with a dog eat dog system when wages are determined purely by the market. John Howard was a proponent of this, and Abbott given the chance would also introduce a "free" market industrial system to Australia's long term detriment.

Aussie boy and CH, there is a reason why people are on a minimum wage, its because in most cases that's what they are worth. in fact, some are not even worth that.

People forget the most important link in the chain when it comes to wages, that being affordability to the employer because while anyone can dream up a wage, the reality is they are paid from gross profits and, if GP declines, jobs must go. If GP declines enough, employers go broke.

We are fast becoming the highest paid, under worked in our region and if we don't place more focus on affordability to employers, there will be no wages, it truly is that simple.

Large employers are all introducing wage minimization practices, self service check outs, automated ordering systems, the list goes on. They are doing this because they realize where we are headed yet its small business that is expected to pick up the slack. well, SB is buckling under the strain and to impose ridiculous IR laws, simply because its a Sunday is a cancer that will kill off many small businesses. People are the ones who pushed for a 7 day society, so the people must accept that they cant be granted their wish on one hand, yet be paid higher wages for the privilege.

I have a casual girl which I cant employ this Saturday because its a public holiday and I cant afford the wages. I want her to work, and she wants to work but IR laws see it otherwise.

Big brother needs to stay out of peoples business.

What is needed is the abolition of the weekend and thus penalty rates.
The only penalty rates that would need to exist should be for afternoon and night work with loading for particularly dirty or dangerous work perhaps.
India has shown the way, in most Indian cities the working week varies, different suburbs having different days off.
This has the advantage that shoppers need only go to the next suburb to get things if they really need them on the local break.

Hi rehab
Thxs for post but still no one has put a figure on whats a fair basic wage
Also it wasn't the people that wanted expanded trading it was retail
Gerry Harvey was a big push for it. I marched against it at the time.
Last time you brought up your situation I gave you a few suggestions to try to help did you try these? Think 1 was a surcharge 2nd was advertising ahead even if was just a sign in the window or A frame.
As an employer do you think the wage you pay your young lady is enough for her to get ahead i.e. buy a house have a family and such or is it just a survival wage.

AB.......As an employer do you think the wage you pay your young lady is enough for her to get ahead i.e. buy a house have a family and such or is it just a survival wage.

My young ladies wage is not set by me, its set by the consumer and how much they are willing to pay for good meat, good service and convenience. Of cause the more they are willing to pay, the more profits are made, which should lead to better wages.

As for a surcharge, here is an example that relates to hospitality, most likely the hardest hit.

For every $10 spent at your average restaurant, $3 is cost of goods, $3.50 is wages, $1 is GST, which leaves $2.50 gross profit. 83% of wages paid.

So, during double time pay rates, with say a 15% surcharge , that $10 now becomes $11.50.

So the food cost remains $3, the wages are now $7 and the GST is now $1.05, which leaves just 45 cents to pay the bills/loans and make a profit. Of cause that's a ridiculous scenario as no employer wants to work a Sunday for less than 1/5th of their normal gross income and, as many leases now charge additional rental costs for trading on a Sunday, much of that reduced GP is eroded in any case. Nobody wins!

Of cause more and more of these establishments are now closing on Sundays simply because the employer deems it as not worth it. Either that or the usual family time is disrupted because most of the family works in the business now to save increased wages.

Of cause the standard reply is usually "why are you in that business", to which I reply, why work in hospitality if you don't like the hours.
Continued

A fair wage is whatever is agreed between two people, where one is happy to perform certain work for the other who in turn agrees to give them some money for that. Obviously, failing to give what was agreed on is unfair.

That people don't have enough to live on is a separate issue, which may well be discussed, here or elsewhere, but it should have nothing to do with those arrangements between individuals.