Julian,

"How about the human right of self defence? How is that unfortunate, frail 70 year old woman going to defend herself against the 18 year old rapist/murderer?"

Don't you believe that self defence against unlawful attack is a human right?
I'm talking about the here and now, so how could she successfully defend herself?
Not depending on the Courts getting it right somewhere down the track; which is airy-fairy thinking.

Murder has been against the law in both civilized and uncivilized societies, with varying degrees of harshness re. penalties but it still occurs as does bashing of the elderly.
See:http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/04/15/05/49/local-men-asked-for-dna-samples-after-daceyville-elderly-woman-bashed

Judging by that nonsense of a 70 year old woman shooting a would be 18 year old rapist/murderer, shows you are defiantly in the drivers seat with the crazy 'Two Bobs'.

Robert Bates was a volunteer deputy who'd never led an arrest for the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office.

So how did the 73-year-old insurance company CEO end up joining a sting operation this month that ended when he pulled out his handgun and killed suspect Eric Harris instead of stunning him with a Taser?

A lawyer representing the Harris family says the answer is simple.

Bates paid big money to play a cop in his spare time, attorney Daniel Smolen says, but he didn't have the training to handle the job.

Any comment Is Mise, Bates is your sort of guy, a gun slinging old fart!

Paul,

Did I say anything about shooting?
But if you think that that is the only way that a 70 year old woman could effectively defend herself against a stronger male attacker, then full marks; you're begining to think at last.

Of course it's against Greens' policy that anyone should ever defend themselves with a firearm, but we'll let that pass as just another bit of their empty rhetoric.

Is Mise, we have debated this nonsense many times, your off the planet notion that there should be unrestricted gun ownership in the community. Some of the Shooters Party polices are reasonable, but this is not one of them I have said that in the past, but if unrestricted gun ownership is a policy, then it is a policy for disaster!
The policy put forward by The Greens, that self defense is not a legitimate reason to hold a gun licence is totally reasonable. What you and others don't understand is you actually make vulnerable people more vulnerable, not less, by giving them a gun for so called "self defense". They now have a new danger, not just the 18 year old rapists/murderer, but they have now become a danger to themselves and others in society.

I see you avoided comment on that Bates old fart in the US who shot a suspect by accident while paying to play copper!

Some of the Shooters' Party ploys may sound reasonable, but they are the finger under the door - the thin edge of the wedge - in a wider plan to reintroduce gun anarchy, the law of the gun-armed, and more Port Arthurs which Howard thankfully got rid of.

This gun lobby finger under the door technique is reminiscent of Islam - all sweetness and light in demanding initially small concessions, playing the victim, while its real face is ISIS and Taliban and Boko Haram and Al Shebab and its "holy books" are an open declaration of war on every human liberty humanity has taken centuries of struggle to win and defend. Actually, come to think about it, Hitler's pre-war pattern is no different - play the victim, make ever-increasing demands for concessions, then follow up with mass extinction of life and liberty. Always beware of the finger under the door.

Paul,

"The policy put forward by The Greens, that self defense is not a legitimate reason to hold a gun licence is totally reasonable...."

but that is not all that the Greens say, they say, in their policy, that a firearm should never be USED for self defence, now I put it to you and Julian, that it should be perfectly reasonable to use a firearm against a pack of dogs and it should be perfectly reasonable to possess a firearm for defence against them where the danger exists.

What some misguided person did in the US should not be part of the discussion unless the people who successfully defend themselves with a firearm are also considered.

" GARLAND, Texas — Police say a homeowner and two burglars exchanged gunfire early Friday morning in an attempted home invasion burglary — leaving one burglar wounded.

The Garland Police Department reports the incident occurred just after 7 a.m. on Friday, March 27, 2015, when police received a 911 call about gunshots in the 5200 block of Hollow Bend Lane.

“When officers arrived, they were told several men had come inside the home to rob them,” stated Garland Police Department Public Information Officer Joe Harn. “During the attempted robbery, shots were exchanged between the robbers and the homeowner.”

No injuries were reported for the individuals who live in the home but police say one of the burglars had been shot.

The two burglars were located in the area and taken into custody. Arrested were 24-year-old Caris Bryant of Dallas, Texas, and 27-year-old Dequalon Barnes of Dallas, Texas. Barnes suffered the gunshot wound and was taken to Baylor Medical Center in Dallas, Texas, where he was treated and released back into police custody.

Bryant and Barnes are both charged with aggravated robbery. No bond information was available.
- See more at: http://inforney.com/texas/item/3057-homeowner-burglars-exchange-gunfire-in-attempted-garland-home-invasion-one-shot#sthash.pm5isyMH.dpuf