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The Forum > General Discussion > Friends of Shooting

Friends of Shooting

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"Parliamentary Friends of Shooting group launched

Politicians from most parties united in Canberra recently in a rare display of bipartisanship - all in the name of the shooting sports.

The Parliamentary Friends of Shooting group was officially launched in Parliament House on March 23 to help promote the legitimate sport of shooting and counteract negative attitudes towards hunters and shooters among other Senators and MPs.
More than 40 politicians from the Liberal, National, Labor and Liberal Democratic parties gathered to celebrate the new group.
The SSAA was invited to attend and share information about the shooting sports and the activities of our Association, including our magazines and popular award-winning cookbook Field to Fork - The Australian Game Cookbook.

Co-chaired by Victorian Nationals Senator Bridget McKenzie and Shadow Agriculture Minister Joel Fitzgibbon MP, the group hopes to educate politicians about the sport with the opportunity to participate in range days and field trips....."

More at:
http://www.ssaa.org.au/capital-news/2015/2015-03-27_parliamentary-friends-of-shooting-group-launched.html#.VRobB_yUcuo
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 31 March 2015 2:04:56 PM
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Is Mise, "Co-chaired by Victorian Nationals Senator Bridget McKenzie and Shadow Agriculture Minister Joel Fitzgibbon MP, the group hopes to educate politicians about the sport with the opportunity to participate in range days and field trips....."

What is there to educate about Is Mise?
Isn't everyone already more than aware of guns, and the fact they can shoot people and animals?
Using the word 'sport' and guns in the one sentence is a bit much as far as I am concerned, given that any animals 'hunted' by shooters don't really have a sporting chance do they?
Neither do the humans either.

Shooting should not be considered a sport at all, no matter how many politicians gather to 'celebrate' such a group.
Posted by Suseonline, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 1:11:16 AM
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Is Mise, I note there were no Green politicians in attendance at your "pot shot party". Our members here in NSW are too busy with the fight to keep the Rambo's out of our national parks.
Yes, Susie this mob try to legitimise their blood pursuit by calling it a sport, which like cock fighting, bear baiting and greyhound racing it clearly is not!

With our increased numbers in the NSW Parliment we intend to intensify our fight against those of the small minority who would destroy our national parks, making them unfit for the passive enjoyment of the vast majority. These Shooters are well known for their wheeling and dealing with the sympathetic Baird Government, but the fight will go on.

A dear friend of mine, and our Environmental Spokesperson Dr Mehreen Faruqi will lead our team in this continuing struggle. Mehreen is an extremely capable person, and a politician of the highest order. Mehreen will again prove more than a match for the political mouth peaces of The Shooters Party in the Legislative Council.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/nsw-state-election-2015/nsw-state-election-2015-greens-environment-policy-would-halt-whitehaven-mine-shooting-in-national-parks-20150226-13pskp.html
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 4:54:20 AM
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Suse,

"Shooting should not be considered a sport at all, no matter how many politicians gather to 'celebrate' such a group."

How about target shooting, clay target with shotguns (remember Michael Diamond and his Olympic triumph), Western Action etc etc?

Paul,

We shall see and why did the Greens support the current legislation on
hunting in National Parks.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 9:17:23 AM
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It never stops at clay target shooting though does it?
Sorry Is Mise, I would never support such a 'sport'.
Posted by Suseonline, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 10:20:48 AM
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Yes it does, Suse, many older persons who cannot do field shooting have a shot at the clays.
I know puople who have never hunted who shoot targets and clays, maybe you ought to broaden your outlook and visit a range.
You might be pleasantly surprised.

Then there are the paraplegics who shoot target, what of them?
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 11:00:41 AM
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Is Mise I can only presume the Romans considered feeding Christians to the lions, a sport, and people who today catch flies and pull their wings off, may call it a sport, like hunting, hand eye coordination. I will concede those engaged in the past time of shooting clay people tossed into the air are participating in some kind of sport. However, I cannot concede that those running around the bush shooting defenseless animals are engaged in a sport, no more that I would call throwing hand grenades into a pond to catch fish, a sport.
Given the guest list I can only envisage this firing fun day of mutual back slapping at parliament house was akin to 'The Mad Hatters Tea Party'! What was the main course 'Stuffed Koala in a Wombat sauce' just an appetizer from the cookbook 'Field to Folk'.

Now we have established that most of this shooting shenanigans is not a bona fide sport, what can we talk about?
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 11:02:54 AM
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Paul1405,

The Greens are however in favour of the outlaw motorcycle gangs who manufacture and traffic ice/Methylamphetamine, along with other very nasty criminal activities they are engaged in. Drug trafficking is responsible for almost all of the violent gang crime and involving guns, including gun running.

The Australian outlaw motorcycle gangs are involved in international drugs and are being pursued by police internationally for setting up chapters in other countries and in Asia. Australia is now one of the highest per capita drug using countries and the most profitable for criminal gangs.

The import and distribution of methamphedamine is also a very good example of the failure of leftist 'Progressive' governments such as those led by Rudd and Gillard/Greens to protect the borders and exercise due diligence in the screening of migrants. This is the result,
<AUSTRALIA is awash with methamphetamine — and it’s likely coming from a relatively small district in the south of China..
On February 18, 2015 two Australian men were charged after 16 kilograms of meth amphetamine was found in a shipment of treadmills coming from China.
And one week later two men from Malaysia and Hong Kong were charged with importing $65 million worth of the drug into Sydney in boxes marked as “kids’s toys.”>
http://tinyurl.com/pso5b5k

and this,

http://tinyurl.com/purtpa4

and this,

<Today, The Daily Telegraph reported concerns from a former police commissioner, Ken McKay, that the current gang atmosphere could create a new wave of ethnic-based criminal gangs in Sydney.
In New South Wales last year, the Brothers 4 Life gang emerged and was thought to be behind a wave of shootings. It differed from traditional gangs, in that it had a loose structure, with police believing it was made up of friends and relatives who had sworn loyalty to founder Bassam Hamzy.>
http://tinyurl.com/l8aj8r5

It is the stated priority of the Greens and Labor to tear down the effective anti-gang laws in Queensland.
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 12:16:19 PM
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Suseonline, "It never stops at clay target shooting though does it?"

It's those phallic images you have and you are not so keen on men anyhow.

Some of Australia's finest shotgun competitors are women,

http://www.shootingaustralia.org/index.php

Shooting is one of the very few sports that was always open to all comers and was non-discriminatory.

http://www.shootingaustralia.org/in-sport/paralympicprogram/rifle.html
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 12:46:15 PM
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This is on what Senator McKenzie had to say in a Senate speech:

"The Senator pointed to the many social, cultural, environmental and economic benefits of hunting, saying: “There are incredible conservation benefits from hunting. It brings economic, social and environmental benefits - these are recognised worldwide through international conventions and the like. Hunting delivers $200 million dollars a year to New Zealand, and $200 million is delivered to the African economy as a result of trophy hunting - $200 million a year to the poorest continent on earth. That flows right through not only to the national economy but also down onto the ground and to villages that run conservation projects and manage animals sustainably.”

http://www.ssaa.org.au/capital-news/2015/2015-03-13_hunters-defended-in-passionate-senate-speech.html#.VRuGKPyUcuo
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 3:52:25 PM
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Paul,

This is from the NSW Greens' Official Policies:

"15.4 Establish good and genuine reasons for possessing a licence (e.g. persons with an occupational requirement, e.g. primary producers, other rural purposes, security employees and professional shooters for nominated purposes or a member of an approved sports shooting association);"

http://nsw.greens.org.au/policies/nsw/firearms

What is Greens approved sports shooting?
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 5:13:43 PM
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Beach, an unsubstantiated and gutless attack on The Greens, something you are well noted for on this form. I challenge you to name any Green in New South Wales, in or out of Parliament who in your words is;

<<in favour of the outlaw motorcycle gangs who manufacture and traffic ice/Methylamphetamine, along with other very nasty criminal activities they are engaged in. Drug trafficking is responsible for almost all of the violent gang crime and involving guns, including gun running.>>

I challenge you to put up or shut up! I suspect in your usual cowardly fashion you will crawl back into your cesspit of unanimity and wallow in your own feces!
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 7:02:58 PM
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Paul1405,

Do you deny that the Greens have always opposed the anti-gang legislation and specifically (as already stated), "It is the stated priority of the Greens and Labor to tear down the effective anti-gang laws in Queensland"?

Of course the lunar Greens are soft on the outlaw motorcycle gangs who manufacture and deal in drugs.

Blow as hard as you like, that is the Greens.

It is always interesting how you and the Greens deliberately and wrongly conflate the criminals' illegal possession and use of guns with the lawful, licensed, registered, approved ownership by the thousands of thoroughly reliable and honest citizens who meet the standards to qualify for a firearms licence.

Why you and the Greens do that would be the same reason the NSW 'Watermelon' Greens put up and maintain that 'registered gun' (Martin Place terrorist) lie on their website that is an unwarranted slur against the NSW police service.

The Greens are just a protest party. Anything for a headline.
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 8:55:33 PM
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As I suspected from you BEACHh a cowardly response. I put it to you in plain English, and I will put it again;

I challenge you to name any Green in New South Wales, in or out of Parliament who in your words is;

<<in favour of the outlaw motorcycle gangs who manufacture and traffic ice/Methylamphetamine, along with other very nasty criminal activities they are engaged in. Drug trafficking is responsible for almost all of the violent gang crime and involving guns, including gun running.>>

To assist your feeble mind here is a list of Greens members of the NSW Parliament;

JAMIE PARKER
JOHN KAYE
MEHREEN FARUQI
DAVID SHOEBRIDGE
JEREMY BUCKINGHAM
JENNY LEONG
TAMARA SMITH
JAN BARHAM
You can add LEE RHIANNON The Greens NSW Senator if you wish.

As I said BEACH put up or shut up! You made the statement now back it up, or show yourself to be the gutless poster you are. You claim on other threads "You know all about The Greens", so this should be simple for you to answer. Again put up or shut up!
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 2 April 2015 6:03:02 AM
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Paul,

It was a simple question "What is Greens approved sports shooting?"
as in Policy 15.4

Please answer.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 2 April 2015 9:35:30 AM
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Perhaps the Greens' approved sports shooting includes feral cats like the one photographed in Tasmania

"A Tasmanian scientist has caught on camera a feral cat killing and eating a four-kilogram pademelon, providing the best direct evidence of feral cats killing mammals heavier than two kilograms."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-30/scientists-catch-a-feral-cat-killing-a-large-mammal-on-camera-f/6357868

What say you, Paul?
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 2 April 2015 10:01:23 AM
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Is Mise, I agree with that policy.

"15.4 Establish good and genuine reasons for possessing a licence (e.g. persons with an occupational requirement, e.g. primary producers, other rural purposes, security employees and professional shooters for nominated purposes or a member of an approved sports shooting association);"

For me an approved sports shooting association, and that is the name you choose for yourselves, are those engaged in shooting 'inanimate objects' not shooting yourselves, other people or animals, friendly or not so friendly. If you choose to make life size panda bears out of paper mache and shoot at them, that's your bag. You can even paint them in bright colors I have no objection. Its when you start wanting to shoot the real thing then I have a problem.

Feral, animals are a problem and need to be controlled, but I do not believe letting Rambo amateur shooters lose in the bush, is the answer. This was clearly demonstrated by a recent trial of amateurs shooting in national parks in NSW, it was a farce, an expensive farce. It would be like putting school children into our hospitals and expecting them to perform open heart sugary.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 2 April 2015 10:23:59 AM
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I did this topic a bit strange in terms of including topics like:

Politicians from most parties united in Canberra recently in a rare display of bipartisanship.....

The Parliamentary Friends..... in terms of something to do with killing and links to popular award-winning cookbook - sounds a bit tasteless doesn't it?

I'm now wondering in 2015 if we could have 'human' targeted shooting as a sport? Why are singling out other animal species? I mean a sport is a sport isn't it - if we go by the title "The friends of shooting."

Such a move would fit in fine with the Liberal Democrats, as they are pro-choice on everything and Labor, Liberal and the National parties hate each others guts.

Particularly with all of the people in starving third world countries, there has to be some sort of demand for this..... surely...... and we could start slowly. Shoot off someone's leg, then maybe a month later an arm, then maybe a foot..... we could start a new meat market.

Personally I would have thought these politicians would have more productive things to do with their time - but clearly not.

Finally to politicians out there, if you want to shoot - I'd rather you shoot yourselves in the foot at a press conference, during an interview or shoot yourselves to death in parliament (verbally) - but for me the best option is to serve a top class dinner in terms of policy and the people who elected you.

You'l be much more likely get accepted in next year's season of My Kitchen Rules or be on Annabel Crabb's ABC 'Kitchen Cabinet' program.
Posted by NathanJ, Thursday, 2 April 2015 10:50:13 AM
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Paul,

".... sports shooting association" is obviously the Grens' choice of words; it's in their policy statement.

So what do the Greens define as a 'sports shooting association'?

They have used the combination of words so what do they mean by them?
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 2 April 2015 12:34:46 PM
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Paul1405,

Does any Greens MP or leader give support to organised crime such as the outlaw motorcycle gangs who are proved to be involved in the manufacture and distribution of Ice/Methylamphetamine?

Honestly now, how can the public arrive at any other conclusion given the behaviour of the Greens? They must do, otherwise the Greens would not be rolling logs in front of legislative efforts by the major parties to control criminal gangs.

Again, do you deny that the Greens have always opposed the anti-gang legislation and specifically (as already stated), "It is the stated priority of the Greens and Labor to tear down the effective anti-gang laws in Queensland"? In the Queensland State election the Greens actively campaigned against the laws.

The Queensland legislation - which survived bikie court challenges - was immediately effective in reducing drug trafficking in Queensland. Sadly, the violent gun-running drug gangs moved to States where opposition, such as from the Greens has prevented similar laws,

"THE Mongols outlaw motorcycle gang is in Victoria Police's sights.

THERE are signs a toughening of laws interstate has encouraged outlaw bikies to switch their operations to Victoria, and the Mongols gang has grown in number and weapons capability."
http://tinyurl.com/p3ev8zj

What about you now list the names of Greens politicians who would support Victorian authorities to counter the gangs in that State? What about NSW's 'Watermelon' Greens and their guru, Lee Rhiannon, have to say on the subject? Or will they continue to undermine legislative initiatives there too?
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 2 April 2015 1:45:14 PM
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Dear Paul,

Why is there this diversion concerning Bikie gangs
and the Greens? What does this have to do with
"Friends of Shooting?"

I went into one of the Greens websites to see what
this furphy was all about - and what I read quite
appalled me. It's explained as follows:

"One of the starkest lessons of the Bjelke-Petersen era
was that excessive police powers are always going
to be abused and misused, and innocent people are the victims".

We need to re-assert the traditional rights of freedom of
association, presumption of innocence and equality before the
law. These processes safeguard against injustice and should
not be treated with contempt by either Attorney Generals or
governments. All of these have been treated with contempt
by the LNP.

The Atroney-General has said that these so called bikie laws
apply to non-bikies and could include any group of three
or more. That should be a concern for us all.

The site then goes on to say that:

"We need to reassert the importance of good governance and
judicial discretion and independence and separation of powers.
The government should not decide who stays in prison and who
goes. That is the role of the courts".

In a free society it should not be possible for people
to be arrested simply for going to the pub with their
friends and family.

The regular harrassment of law-abiding motocyle riders is an
indefensible intrusion in freedom, as well as a waste of
police resources.

These laws have clearly gone well beyond rational measure to
stop criminal actions by motorcycle gangs. It was the work
of an unaccountable government (thankfully now gone) with
no checks and balances abusing its powers for cheap political
gain.

Of course bikie gangs who break the law should be charged with
breaking the law. However innocent bike riders and their
friends and family should not have to fear being caught up
in any government's power games.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 2 April 2015 3:15:59 PM
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LOL, what a load of fox droppings.

What about this reality? See here, some evidence you conveniently 'missed',

<The Queensland legislation - which survived bikie court challenges - was immediately effective in reducing drug trafficking in Queensland. Sadly, the violent gun-running drug gangs moved to States where opposition, such as from the Greens has prevented similar laws,

"THE Mongols outlaw motorcycle gang is in Victoria Police's sights.

THERE are signs a toughening of laws interstate has encouraged outlaw bikies to switch their operations to Victoria, and the Mongols gang has grown in number and weapons capability."
http://tinyurl.com/p3ev8zj >

There is plenty more,

<Police crackdown on youth gangs acting as feeder groups to Gold Coast outlaw bikies

Violent youth gangs with names such as the Gold Coast Brotherhood and Soldiers of Islam are springing up on the Glitter Strip as ''feeder groups'' for outlaw motorcycle clubs.

Police say few of the ''bikies on training wheels'' actually ride motorcycles but are causing mayhem, bashing innocent people and committing other crimes in a bid to prove themselves to senior bikies.

The Soldiers of Islam gang, comprising mainly young Muslim men including former Iraqi soldiers, is a feeder gang for the Bandidos bikie gang while the Gold Coast Brotherhood is a recruiting base for the Nomads.

Members of the Brotherhood were allegedly involved in last month's wild street brawl at the Cooly Rocks On nostalgia festival at Coolangatta...

Police say the Brotherhood have been involved in various violent incidents on the southern Gold Coast, including surf club and pub bashings...>

http://tinyurl.com/k8kbmx5

The Greens and Annastacia Palaszczuk's Labor are hypocrites. Who do they represent, because it obviously NOT the ordinary, law-abiding citizen and certainly NOT the victims of crime.
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 2 April 2015 3:47:57 PM
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Paul,

Here's another one for you to ponder:

"Firearms policy.....
Policy detail
13 Tighter legislated minimum standards for the refusal and cancellation of licenses, including:

13.3 Mental or physical fitness."

Now just what is meant by that statement?

Surely fully thought out and costed policies (as you have assured us that they are) would have defined such mental and physical fitness as part of the costing process, so you should have no trouble finding the relevant details.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 2 April 2015 4:34:15 PM
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Beach, why would anyone take you seriously, when you refuse to answer a simple question, As per your usual modus operandi on this forum, you make an outrageous allegation against The Greens. When challenged to substantiate your rubbish claim your slink off into some other nonsense! I can only describe you a pathetically cowardly poster, who runs when challenged!

Foxy, that nonsense was posted by Beach and it has nothing to do with the topic. But I will continually challenge him to put up or shut up!
I have to be careful with this particular poster as he lives a charmed life on this forum, I have already spent a week on the side lines this year because of what I called him.

Is Mise what is meant by a "Volunteer Conservation Hunter"? Who are they, how do you identify them, how many are there in NSW? After all according to The Shooters Party these are the very people who will be assisting in the control of pest
animals on private and public land in NSW." To avoid the Rambo types how should they be screened.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 2 April 2015 5:44:54 PM
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Paul,

Ah! the old 'answer a question with a question ploy'; I'm not an intimate of those that frame S&F policy so I don't know but you've told us that David Shoebridge is a friend of yours, so are you close enough to get an understanding of policy?

I just thought that you might be able to shed some light on what the Greens mean.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 2 April 2015 6:05:35 PM
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Dear Paul,

I admire your tenacity - you must do what you feel
you must. I don't tolerate fools (for want of a
better word) well. Nor do I feel that I need to.
Walking away is so much more pleasant.
Especially from something that's total nonsense
where crime stats provide the actual reality
and the truth of the matter.

Anyway, the following two websites presents the facts
in the bikie law issue:

http://theconversation.com/crime-stats-provide-reality-check-in-queensland-crackdown-30908

And -

http://theconversation.com/the-revealing-facts-on-bikie-laws-and-crime-in-queensland-35892
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 2 April 2015 6:44:59 PM
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Paul1405,

It is reasonable that the public would assume that Greens politicians would support Greens policies, such as they are. Unless as a claimed insider you can cite any who disagree.

All you are doing is desperately trying to divert attention away from Greens policy.

Greens policy was very evident in the recent Queensland State election. There is a public record of that.

Or are you claiming that the Greens got it wrong in Queensland and the NSW 'Watermelon' Greens do in fact support the very successful Qld laws to control gangs? -Laws that are now being considered for Victoria.
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 2 April 2015 6:57:14 PM
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Is Mise, as a democratic grass roots party, Greens policy is formulated by the party membership through elected delegates to State Conference. No one member, not even a parliamentary member, can hold sway when it comes to policy. Unlike the undemocratic Liberal Party where a so called "captains calls" can take precedent over the wishes of the membership. As for friendship it has no bearing on policy formulation.
I assume you were at that shooting jamboree, hobnobbing with the best of em', rubbing shoulders with some 40 odd political luminaries. What was the consensus on policy?

Thanks Foxy for those links. As far as Beach is concerned, he tried to use the anonymity of this forum to make snide innuendos that The Greens in some way are associated with, or in league with, outlaw motor cycle gangs. I simply called him on it, demanding he put up or shut up, name names! Like that cockroach in the kitchen, he has ducked for cover and wont answer the challenge.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 2 April 2015 7:37:11 PM
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Paul, Foxy,

"I have to be careful with this particular poster as he lives a charmed life on this forum, I have already spent a week on the side lines this year because of what I called him."

Yes, the gods look upon "otb" with special affection, it seems : )

Here's a related article:

"The former president of the Queensland Bar Association described Jarrod Bleijie as an "inexperienced and under-educated, and, in my view, incompetent Attorney-General", who headed "insidious attacks" against the legal profession.

Peter Davis, who resigned as head of the Bar Association in June 2014, following escalating disputes between the Newman Government and the legal community, said there was an "intolerable and matter-of-fact attack upon the profession and the courts" during the Newman Government's term.

Mr Davis made the remarks in a speech made to the Bar Association on Wednesday night, after he was awarded life membership.

He said he realised "too late" that "confidentiality meant nothing to the Attorney-General".

"Between November 2013 when I became president and 13 June 2014, the date of my resignation, I resisted the government as forcefully as I could in private consultations with this Attorney-General," he said in speech notes seen by Fairfax Media.

"But, during the process which led to the appointment of a magistrate as Chief Justice of Queensland, it became evident to me that the Attorney-General had, to use Jim Thomas' expression, blabbed about my conversations with him to that magistrate.

"I realised too late that confidentiality meant nothing to that Attorney-General. I realised that speaking with him achieved little more than allowing him to clothe his decisions with the false claim of proper consultation when, in reality, there had been none."

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/jarrod-bleijie-slammed-as-incompetent-20150327-1m8kvx.html
Posted by Poirot, Thursday, 2 April 2015 7:57:39 PM
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Paul1405,

Your imagination and story-telling are getting the best of you. At no stage did I say as you claim, that the Greens are "are associated with, or in league with, outlaw motor cycle gangs". Your claim is a Strawman, a fallacy, where you make a false representation of your opponent's argument.

My posts were very clear, as are your continued attempts to divert attention away from Greens policies.

Once again and this time without your ploy of answering a question with a question, do you deny that the Greens have always opposed the anti-gang legislation and it is the stated intention and priority of the Greens to tear down the effective anti-gang laws in Queensland? It is true isn't it, that in the Queensland State election the Greens actively campaigned against those laws.

The Queensland legislation, which survived bikie court challenges, was immediately effective in reducing bikie violence and their drug trafficking in Queensland. Sadly, the violent gun-running drug gangs moved to States where the legislation did not exist. Now Victoria is considering the Queensland laws and obviously for good reason.
Posted by onthebeach, Friday, 3 April 2015 6:05:55 AM
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otb,

"At no stage did I say as you claim, that the Greens are "are associated with, or in league with, outlaw motor cycle gangs". Your claim is a Strawman, a fallacy, where you make a false representation of your opponent's argument."

Lol!....here we go again. onthebeach conflates all kinds of "support" and "favour" between bikies, criminal activities and the Greens - and promptly offers a semantic double pike with somersault to wriggle out of his blatant misrepresentation.

Misrepresentation and trolling and goading of fellow posters being his specialty on this forum.

Here's a selection of his best false assertions so far on this thread.

"The Greens are however in favour of the outlaw motorcycle gangs who manufacture and traffic ice/Methylamphetamine, along with other very nasty criminal activities they are engaged in. Drug trafficking is responsible for almost all of the violent gang crime and involving guns, including gun running."

"Does any Greens MP or leader give support to organised crime such as the outlaw motorcycle gangs who are proved to be involved in the manufacture and distribution of Ice/Methylamphetamine?

Honestly now, how can the public arrive at any other conclusion given the behaviour of the Greens? They must do, otherwise the Greens would not be rolling logs in front of legislative efforts by the major parties to control criminal gangs."
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 3 April 2015 8:52:32 AM
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Paul,

Are we to take it that, as the Greens are a grass roots party (is that 'grass' as in the ordinary sense or should we take a pot at something else?),no one is responsible for writing coherent policy.
Does it mean that no one knows what the policy detail is and that therefore it cannot be costed?

I do wish that you would answer the questions?
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 3 April 2015 8:57:50 AM
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Meanwhile, on the Gold Coast where 74% of locals want to retain the Newman VLAD anti-bikie laws (VLAD) that survived a $500,000 court challenge by outlaw motorcycle gangs. However, the gangs must reckon that the change of government in Queensland gives the green light to return to business as usual,

<Hells Angels arrested during raids at Burleigh and Mermaid, drugs seized
LUCY ARDERN, 03/04/2015

POLICE raided properties in Burleigh and Mermaid on Thursday night, seizing drugs and charging two patched members of the Hells Angels.

They discovered $15,000 worth of drugs in a Burleigh building on Ern Harley Drive, which police believe was being set up as the new Hells Angels clubhouse on the Gold Coast...

They also descended on a building in Great Hall Drive, Mermaid Beach, where they found and seized steroids...

Detective Inspector Brendan Smith of Taskforce Maxima said: “Last night’s efforts saw the location of what we are alleging to be dangerous drugs stored in the gang’s club house.”..

“The links between ice and violence and property crime are well known, and we will continue to target those involved in its manufacture, distribution and use.”>
http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/news/crime-court/hells-angels-arrested-during-raids-at-burleigh-and-mermaid-drugs-seized/story-fnje8bkv-1227290184341

The Bulletin reported,
<Business Gold Coast Central Chamber of Commerce president Peter Yared praised the laws, saying government figures that showed 1706 criminal gang participants had been arrested on 4710 charges since the laws were introduced showed they were working.

Mr Yared said small businesses on the Gold Coast did not want to return to the ways things were before the laws were passed.

“The current (VLAD) laws that are in place need to remain to ensure the Gold Coast’s reputation is not tarnished by petty and major crime.”>

In NSW
"POLICE suspect 25 major shipments of illegal firearms destined for outlaw bikie gangs and Middle Eastern organised crime groups slipped past customs checks in the past two years"
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/illegal-firearms-destined-for-outlaw-bikie-gangs-and-middle-eastern-crime-groups-slip-past-customs-checks/story-fni0ffnk-1226747465235

In Victoria,
"Secret informer links Victoria's most powerful bikie boss Amad 'Jay' Malkoun with suspected firearms traffickers"
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/secret-informer-links-victorias-most-powerful-bikie-boss-amad-jay-malkoun-with-suspected-firearms-traffickers/story-fni0fee2-1226673428567

However the Greens demand that Queensland's VLAD laws be trashed immediately. That is one of their highest priorities.
Posted by onthebeach, Friday, 3 April 2015 2:11:43 PM
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The gall of the headline-hunting Greens 'Protest Party' (Julia Gillard's apt description) is astonishing, awesome to behold.

The Greens coldly and cynically conflate the criminal illegal possession and use of guns by criminals, with the legal licensed ownership of firearms by thousands of reputable, law-abiding citizens.

Why do the Greens do that?

If the Greens are really concerned about serious violence, of which violence with weapons is a sub-set, you would have thought they would take notice of police reports that it is linked with criminal gangs and drugs.

But no, as is found in this thread, the Greens's priorities are to:

- block State laws such as Qld's successful VLAD law that is supported by the public and business; and

- trash-talk and slur the thousands of good, reputable, responsible citizens who legally hold firearms licences and who have nothing whatsoever to do with crime, especially gun crime.

In fact, of all citizens, lawfully licensed citizens are the most reliable, predictable group of people you could choose who would be definitely OPPOSED to unlawful behaviour full-stop and irrevocably against illegal possession and use of guns. They don't get past the first hurdle of the firearms licence without being of very good character and certified so by independent referees and police.

The Greens already know that of course.
Posted by onthebeach, Friday, 3 April 2015 2:59:12 PM
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Paul,

Perchance you'd be good enough to explain why combination locks would be required and the grade of lock thought appropriate.

Greens' NSW policy
"25. Enforcement of regulations requiring guns in homes in rural communities to be kept in a metal box with a combination lock securely bolted to wall or floor, with firing mechanisms and ammunition locked in a similar box in a separate room;"

Many rural properties don't have a house, as such, on them but the open machinery shed contains one lockable room, combination kitchen/bed/sitting room/office.
How to comply with 25 (above)?
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 3 April 2015 4:53:59 PM
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Beach on another thread you took great delight in trumpeting the fact the Greens failed to win even one seat at the recent Queensland state election. Now you have them enacting legislation in that very Parliament which is soft on outlaw motor cycle gangs.
As a far right extremist you are in favor of imposing a police state on us all, with unfettered powers of arrest and detention. You justify this extremism as most necessary for the so called good of the majority. Nothing new in this attack on civil liberties from these extremists, on gaining power not only would they imprison the criminal, but anyone they seen as opposing their regime. Beach would you be seeking a position in such a regime? Possibly the Minister For Public Order could take your fancy.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 3 April 2015 5:28:07 PM
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Reprising the article Foxy's article:

http://theconversation.com/crime-stats-provide-reality-check-in-queenslands-bikie-crackdown-30908

"Crime stats provide reality check in Queensland’s bikie crackdown."

"One of the strongest arguments to support the Queensland government’s crackdown is that the overwhelming majority of bikies are supposedly hardened criminals.

However, data I obtained through Right to Information provides a more accurate picture of criminality within OMCGs. This data shows that the majority of bikies in the majority of clubs have no criminal history. If you include all OMCGs listed in the government data, it shows that approximately 60% of members have no criminal history.

The highest levels of criminality is limited to just two clubs, the Bandidos and the Lone Wolves. A number of the clubs proscribed by the legislation as criminal organisations don’t even feature in the government data. The data examined both confirmed and unconfirmed gang members under the generic term “participants”.

There has been a concerning failure of the VLAD laws to illustrate the criminal enterprise taking place within the gangs. Senior police struggle to provide any correlational evidence linking OMCGs to the epicentre of organised crime. Rather, they are just bit players – like many other criminal gangs."

"Recent decreases in crime not linked to the bikie war

Both the SMT report and the public comments by government MPs have attempted to link the bikie war to reductions in general crime categories such as unlawful entry offences, robberies, assaults and frauds.

However, an examination of five months of police data from January 2013 to May 2013 for the Gold Coast and Logan areas reveals almost no bikie involvement in these crime categories. These figures were before the bikie crackdown, when bikie activity could be expected to show higher levels of criminality."
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 3 April 2015 5:34:04 PM
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Is Mise, sounds like The Beverly Hillbillies, before they struck oil. Where did the Clampett's keep their guns? Based on what you say. the only alternative is to keep your gun over the mantelpiece, fully loaded ready to shoot any varmints that should enter. The bloke in the one room shed, is that the same bushy who need his gun out on track to ward off them pesky wild pigs, you referred to earlier?
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 3 April 2015 5:46:24 PM
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From the Australian Crime Commission,

"The Australian Crime Commission has issued a warning that organised crime by outlaw motorcycle gangs is putting innocent Australians at growing risk of getting caught up in the crossfire of guns and drug crimes.

The national crime and justice watchdog said the gangs had growing international connections "with sophisticated and high threat organised crime groups".

"The apparent willingness of organised crime, and outlaw motorcycle gangs in particular, to bring their violent disputes into public spaces increases the risk that members of the public will become unintended victims," the ACC says in a new report this week about organised crime.

ACC chief executive John Lawler said bikie gangs were "major players" in Australia's drug trade who carried out "brazen shootings" in public.

He said bikies continued to team with Calabrian mafia and other ethnic-based criminal groups to expand and enhance crime networks here and overseas.
"Hardly a day goes by when an outlaw motorcycle gang in some part of the country isn't brought before the courts," he said."

http://www.news.com.au/national/bikie-nation-8212-the-outlaw-gangs-in-your-backyard/story-fncynjr2-1226690598400

You wouldn't always expect police to be able to lay their hands on the senior and fully patched members of the OMCs. The clubs are highly organised, covert, sophisticated and practiced in the way they do business. Associates and other hangers-on are often the ones who do the dirty work in the hope of membership and favour. Their drug clientele, many of whom are middle class professionals which is where the big profits are, would be most unlikely to inform on them.
Posted by onthebeach, Friday, 3 April 2015 6:28:45 PM
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Beach, who are you trying to convince that outlaw motorcycle gangs are bad people, we know that. What you are trying to do is use the actions of these gangs as justification to clamp down on all Australians civil liberties. Famously the Bjelke-Petersen regime in Queensland made it illegal for three or more persons to gather on a street corner, denying freedom of assembly. All in the name of maintaining 'law and order', but it was more likely an attempt to stifle any protest against his corrupt criminal regime. A regime and its actions I am sure you approved of at the time. More of that police state you so desire.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 3 April 2015 6:54:59 PM
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Paul1405, "is that the same bushy who need his gun out on track to ward off them pesky wild pigs"

Do you imagine that the feral pigs would wait, posing, while the farmer does the long round trip to get his firearm?

You would have no stock and be wondering why. But wait a moment, you do realise that supermarket meat doesn't come from the BubbleWrap Tree of Plenty?

LOL, typical Green that always find a podium on the ABC's Q&A.
Posted by onthebeach, Friday, 3 April 2015 7:01:02 PM
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Paul is ducking and weaving and won't answer any of my questions; wonder why that is?
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 3 April 2015 7:55:44 PM
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Paul,

You posted: "....You justify this extremism as most necessary for the so called good of the majority. Nothing new in this attack on civil liberties from these extremists, on gaining power not only would they imprison the criminal, but anyone they [have] seen as opposing their regime...."

That describes the Greens, does not
"24. Regular unannounced checks by police or another enforcement body to ensure that individuals and clubs are abiding with firearm storage regulations;"
describe extremism for the good of the majority?

The present practice is for the police to arrange a mutually agreeable time with the licence holder, this saves police time and manpower as they won't call when no one is home.

What do the Greens envisage, midnight calls or 02:00 hrs?
The Greens unwarranted attacks on law abiding gun owners is extremism as are their continuing lies that are designed to gain their own ends.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 3 April 2015 8:15:14 PM
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Is Mise, what you want is no checks at all, in fact you would advocate totally uncontrolled gun ownership, would you not? The Greens policy on this, like all our policies is clear and concise, why do you need every word explained to you. Do you have a comprehension problem?
What about some info on that gun happy jamboree you guys held in Canberra. Can't you tell, was it secret Rambo business? Were you actually there? I wasn't, March 23rd I was busy helping Jenny Leong in her successful campaign to win the seat of Newtown for The Greens.Far more constructive than hanging out with that usless gun happy brigade in Canberra.
You and I have been in verbal fisticuffs about this for yonks on the forum, and you are yet to land a blow, whilst I have pummeled you all around the ring. You have been down for the count so many times yet keep coming back for more. I admire your tenacity! Is it a shooters thing, not only do you like to inflict pain, on those little defenseless woodland creatures, you also like to cop some pain yourselves. I say each to his own.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 3 April 2015 9:01:59 PM
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Just answer the questions Paul, obfuscation and inventing imaginary triumphs does you no credit.

Maybe the grass roots are as potent as the heads and leaves.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 3 April 2015 10:11:52 PM
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Not only do these shooters want to take over billions of dollars worth of national parks in NSW for their own exclusive use and exclude all others, bush walkers, sightseers, picnickers, passive campers and families, even the little children. In 2014 this one percent of the population was quite content to blow tens of thousands of dollars of taxpayers money on a folly, a so called experiment on control of feral animals in national parks by the Rambo brigade. This experiment was a disaster, an unmitigated failure.

I pose the question; How much does it cost to kill a rabbit?

Answer; $7152.00. I kid you not. This is the amount the NSW taxpayer forked out for each feral animal killed during this ridiculous experiment.

The undisputed facts:

Time of trial: February to August 2014
Location of trial; NSW National Parks
Animals killed; 198 (70% rabbits)
Total cost to taxpayers; $1,416,000
Average cost per animal killed $7152.00 I'll repeat that in case anyone thinks they are see double $7152.00

I propose that an annual Licencing Fee of $10,000 be placed on each gun these money wasters hold in NSW until they repay the taxpayer the money they owe them!
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 4 April 2015 6:03:11 AM
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Just answer the questions, Paul.
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 4 April 2015 8:15:32 AM
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Paul1405,

The Greens are notorious for telling only part of the story and fudging. Numbers are beyond them.

Without even bothering to look it is likely that the money was expended on the administrative arrangements to set up and manage the pilot. That would have been quickly recovered because the culling by the double licensed voluntary cullers ('R' licence additional) was free. NSW actually gained revenue through licence fees.

The other thing you are doing there is making the 'R' licensed volunteers immediately responsible for the feral population build-up that occurred under the so-called watch of the State and national parks bureaucracies and their policy of locking the public out of State and national parks. You should be adding the infestation of exotic plants to that list, which occurred again under the 'watch' of rangers.

You were silent too on the 'solutions' of the Greens. What about listing and costing them? Examples being: a huge increase in rangers; national parks to become an monster bureaucracy dictating to local and State governments; more closing off of parks to the public (adding to problems); ramped up park fees to the public (ensuring that low income families cannot visit and camp); and not forgetting of course the lethal 1080 poison aerial drops.

You also 'forgot' to mention that:

- State Forestry bureaucrats, the rangers, have been armed for years with those military assault rifles that are banned and they do use them in the parks. Contractors engaged by State & National Parks also use firearms in the parks and have done so for donkeys years. Poison is also used. Why didn't the contractors keep the populations down? Maybe it is a good income; and

- the volunteer 'R' licensed shooters would be in areas not frequented by the public and they are every bit as qualified and more so through the extra licensing than the publicly funded rangers and contractors.

Now what about you also tell us about the widespread 1080 poison chopper drops the Greens favour in NSW?

Q: How do you tell a Green is lying?
A: The lips are moving.
Posted by onthebeach, Saturday, 4 April 2015 11:40:06 AM
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"Q: How do you tell a Green is lying?
A: The lips are moving."

Aww...come on, otb....as stunning as that is, its a well known fact that it applies more fulsomely to Abbott and his merry band of liars.

(Abbottotototoaphobia strikes again!)
Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 4 April 2015 12:06:37 PM
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"it's"
Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 4 April 2015 12:07:33 PM
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The solution to controlling feral animals is known to be a mix of strategies, including the free to the taxpayer recreational hunting by private individuals. The private hunters are invaluable for intel on new introductions and changing numbers of pest species, including insects and disease.

No small group of ill-informed, spoiler activists with a megaphone and access to a tabloid should ever be allowed to dictate to the remainder of the community.

Personally, I see no problems at all with any member of the public who can obtain a licence from taking rabbits, pigs and deer for the table. Hunting has been done forever and especially so during hard economic times when the rabbit for instance, was the 'underground mutton' that eked out many a family budget.

Indigenous hunt and many migrants come from cultures with hunting traditions.

In NSW, the human headline and political lightweight, Greens' Shoebridge is just playing cynical 'gun ban' politics, following in the footsteps of Lee Rhiannon (Brown). The NSW Greens would prefer to aerial-drop the fearsome 1080 poison and leave magnificent deer fly-blown, rotting, after their long and painful death struggle.

Typical Greens, telling only half of the story and that part is twisted too.
Posted by onthebeach, Saturday, 4 April 2015 12:19:53 PM
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And a good afternoon to you, IS MISE...

At the risk of offending you, and from the outset, I'll be quite candid in saying, I have enormous respect for you, both as a Korean War Veteran, and a small arms expert ! But from a purely police perspective the more guns on the street, the greater the risk it is for the police themselves.

I always concede, most criminality involving F/A's comes from those who don't have a licensed F/A...we all know that. Nevertheless, there are other incidences involving a F/A where the weapon used was both licenced as was the user and/or the victim. Suicides, accidents, domestics, theft of the F/A, whatever. Whenever the situation involving a gun goes 'pear shape' it's the police that need to attend and sort it out. And it's true, the coppers do make errors, serious errors ?

I realize you and I have had previous discussions on this issue, and you always mount a compelling argument - and in reply, I've always maintained if the shooting fraternity were all comprised of; 'IS MISE'S' we'd not have a worry at all. The problem is, they're not ! In fact some licenced gun owners, shouldn't have 'em at all ! You and I both know it, but somehow they've either fell through the cracks, or they've gone to Court and the presiding Magistrate has overturned the police's objection, in favour of the appellant ?

Simply put, more guns on the street, whether licenced or not, means (regrettably) more problems for the coppers.
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 4 April 2015 3:11:05 PM
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o sung wu,

No offence taken, mate.

Straight from the horse's mouth,
"....Gun licences in NSW have reportedly increased more than 37,000 in the past five years - and the state's police have blamed American pop culture.

The state now has 215,462 licenced gun users, up from 177,675 five years ago, News Corp has reported...."Generally speaking however Australians don’t have a strong gun culture....But there is an element in the community who are swayed by the US culture that guns are a right rather than a privilege."

[NOTE!!] However, Det Supt Plotecki said the increase in licences had not come with a corresponding increase in firearm crime.

"If you are a legitimate gun licence holder you are probably doing everything right," he said.
http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/04/03/02/12/nsw-cops-blame-us-gun-culture-for-firearms-increase
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 4 April 2015 3:32:21 PM
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Allowing the so called recreational shooters into national parks will result in accidental (we can't be sure of that) deaths. Here are some examples.

"Ms Rosemery Ives, 25, was cleaning her teeth at her campsite when she was shot at close range by Andrew Mears who had been illegally hunting with three friends." That was in NZ.

Closer to home here in NSW.

"During the recent school holidays a horrified family were confronted by a marauding gang of hunters driving into a camping ground in a south east National Park randomly shooting kangaroos, taking aim at anything that moved. In front of the distressed family, mum, dad and three little darlings, camped in the remote but popular National Park they shot a number of kangaroos and loaded some dead and half dead animals onto a vehicle before driving off, leaving dead and maimed animals behind. As they departed the driver, an oafish looking man with teeth missing, yell at little nine year old Sarah "Look out girly we'll be back". Police described the trio as gorilla like individuals, dirty and unshaven, they we last seen exiting the park in a beat up 1960's pick-up truck. The evidence left behind included sever empty beer bottles, spent cartridges, and a copy of the unpopular cook book 'Field to Folk' with the word "From Bob with love" inside the front cover.Police warned 'Do not approach these unsavory characters as they are armed and dangerous!"

BEACH, I challenged you to name names! When do you intend to do so? All you can do is hide in anonymity on this forum and call good people liars. Why not state you real reasons for supporting so called "licensed hunters", could it be you want a para military force of the like minded to enforce a police state, you so fervently desire.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 4 April 2015 3:45:26 PM
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Is Mise,

You said "NOTE!!] However, Det Supt Plotecki said the increase in licences had not come with a corresponding increase in firearm crime.

"If you are a legitimate gun licence holder you are probably doing everything right," he said."

Exactly, I'll agree with that, can you produce anything to say an increase in gun licences has not resulted in an increase in accidental shootings? I would be please if it had not.

I would put this down to the fact we have tough gun laws. The other issue of criminals obtaining and using guns is a separate matter, and needs to be dealt with separately. There is a worry if a gun culture is developing among some younger people in society and as o sung wu said "Simply put, more guns on the street, whether licenced or not, means (regrettably) more problems for the coppers." We don't want this either.

p/s No offence taken, mate. I like out discussions on this subject, always lively.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 4 April 2015 4:10:07 PM
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Hi (again) IS MISE...

I'd have to defer to what Supt PLOTECKI'S has said. He'd be far more in touch with the accurate crime figures than I am, for sure. I can only speak from the knowledge of my time in the job, not now ? I suspect my own beliefs are essentially out of date ? However, I'm sure you'd recognise that my fears may well be justified, even though Supt PLOTECKI has offered a contrary, more knowledgeable view.

Actually, I've not fired a shot for over five years now, and likely never to fire a gun in the future. One must recognise one's limitations, and to capitulate (reluctantly) to one's advancing age ? Still, to send a few .357's mags. down a 3" barrel, of one of your magnificent 'security six's' would be nice ! Stay well ol' mate !
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 4 April 2015 4:42:25 PM
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Paul1405, "There is a worry if a gun culture is developing among some younger people in society"

"Gun culture" is absolute bollocks, a meme invented by a politically savvy politician who knew how to divide and conquer. Next the Greens will be hero-worshiping Liberal ex-PM John Howard as they did Mal Fraser. Never mind the facts, leftists are all about keeping up the narrative, right or wrong but usually the latter.

Lets talk about importing cultures of violence and gang membership though, because those do exist. Commissioners of Police have drawn attention to certain migrant groups who have imported their tradition of resolving minor disagreements with violence occasioning injury and death.

It is reality. For example, the Italian Mafia was imported with poorly screened large influxes of migrants post-WW2. Reportedly the father of multiculturalism, Labor's flamboyant Immigration Minister Al Grassby knew a lot about that,

http://www.crikey.com.au/2005/05/09/al-grassbys-double-dirty-life/

It is simply amazing how in just a couple of generations Australia has moved from trusting and welcoming secondary school Cadets with their Lee Enfields on public transport to what political correctness has produced today, leftist hysteria on the ABC's Q&A at the very mention of a plastic water pistol.

If the leftists' hysteria and wringing of hands is warranted, there must be urgent study of those changes in population demographics that are the likely cause. Obviously there are some unforeseen serious negative consequences flowing from the 'diversity-Australia-has-to-have'.

Of course it could also be that back then Howard was playing politics to win elections and now, the leftist 'Progressives' aka International Socialists, have seized upon gun bans as a way of disarming Australia.
Posted by onthebeach, Saturday, 4 April 2015 4:43:30 PM
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Paul,

You can take consolation that there has been no increase in accidents with guns despite their ever growing use by the law abiding.

The proof is that there has been no screaming from the rooftops about an increase, if there had been an increase I'm sure David Shoebridge et al would be letting us know.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 5 April 2015 8:18:56 AM
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The incidence of firearm crime and violence in Australia has been historically low. That could change, but how?

The risk is that migrants could import and establish toxic political systems, values and traditions, as happened in Rotherham and other centres in the UK and for such dreadful consequences,

"One former police officer said: 'They were running scared of the race issue… there is no doubt that in Rotherham, this has been a problem with Pakistani men [the PC term is 'Asian'] for years and years. People were scared of being called racist.'" [DailyMail,Australia,Apr5th2015]

It does not take many poorly selected migrants to bring lasting change. Such is the extreme political correctness that is now systemic in Australia (UK too, refer to the child sex cover-ups) Police Commissioners have usually waited to retirement to comment on the traditions of violence and crimes that are being imported with certain migrant groups.

Weak, populist politicians genuflecting to noisy activists and ethnic lobbyists (why is the taxpayer forking out dollars for them?) are the problem, flexing and breaking the controls in place to deny unsuitable persons entry and citizenship.
Posted by onthebeach, Sunday, 5 April 2015 3:26:43 PM
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G'day ONTHEBEACH...

It's the 'quality' of migrants that we allow into this country is our Achilles heel in my opinion. There are some Southern European Nationalities who possess firearms as part of their culture. I'm not inferring anything derogative about that, other than they tend to harbour a belief it's their 'right' to possess a F/A, despite whatever the laws are in Oz ?

Two nationalities particularly are heavily involved in the drug trade, and with it as a sideline, the illegal importation of F/A's. Then of course we're confronted with this Islamic radicalization issue, and who knows what illegal weapons they have at their disposal. And the Bikies, who have a flourishing business with importation of F/S's, drugs and who knows what ?

I reckon you and IS MISE are both correct, our biggest concern is not with licit F/A ownership and the user, rather the underground movement of weapons and munitions through our vast network of seaports, and to some extent, regional airports ? Very little contraband gets through our main International Airports fortunately, other than unlawful entries, using fake documentation ?

ONTHEBEACH - There are three (3) things that need to change in this country of ours, in order to curb all this illicit F/A activity;

(i) Allow police to do their job, WITHOUT political meddling and intrusion;

(ii) Insure the Judiciary, upon conviction, dispense mandatory sentences for ANY crime involving the use of a firearm. As an example...let's say, 6 years for a burglary, PLUS an (obligatory) additional 5 years penal servitude on top, because a F/A was employed, during the commission of that burglary; In other words, whenever a crime is committed, AND a F/A is used in that crime, then an obligatory 5 years is added on top of ALL sentences !

(iii) Restore ALL our gaols, back into bona fide gaols ! Where the prison officers actually preside over the control of the gaol, NOT the inmates, with their various cliques and gangs.

Effectuate these three essential refinements, and stand back and watch the difference ?
Posted by o sung wu, Sunday, 5 April 2015 5:45:23 PM
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Beach

<<The risk is that migrants could import and establish toxic political systems>>

That is a laugh coming from a person with such ultra right views as yourself. Are you a migrant? Your only interests in "hunting" is the establishment of some kind of gun toting quasi paramilitary organisation to act as your enforcers, should your ilk every come to power, and form that totalitarian state you so desire.
The extremists wants, (armed) "school Cadets with their Lee Enfields on public transport", no less!

When can I expect an answer to that request? Name names.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 5 April 2015 7:04:57 PM
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Paul,

Further to your request for information on accidental shootings etc., the Easter Holidays are now over and as far as I know there have been no shootings, either deliberate or accidental, despite the number of hunters out over the period and the number of shooters on ranges all over the country.

There have however been 40 deaths on the roads nationwide and 4 of those in NSW. Serious road injuries in NSW are 170 and over 4,000 motorists have been booked for speeding in that State. (vide the Deputy Commissioner of Police, NSW, on ABC television this morn).

What will the Greens do about this serious situation on the NSW roads?

Blame gun owners?
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 11:03:22 AM
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Is Mise, the mocking of the carnage on our roads is not your style. It is a tragedy that all Australians should be sickened by. To use such a thing to try and score some cheap political points against The Greens, well what can I say.

<<What will the Greens do about this serious situation on the NSW roads? Blame gun owners?>>

No, we encourage the maximum amount of driver education about drinking, drugs and speed,etc, road and vehicle safety etc. Along with law enforcement to try and stem what is a terrible blight on our society. Do you have any other suggestions?
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 7 April 2015 9:42:47 PM
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Paul,

"Is Mise, the mocking of the carnage on our roads is not your style. It is a tragedy that all Australians should be sickened by. To use such a thing to try and score some cheap political points against The Greens, well what can I say. "

You could say that I had taken a leaf out of David Shoebridge's book when he and other Greens had lept upon the bandwagon of tragedy to score a point.
Such as calling for bans on semi-automatic pistols when there is a shooting in the USA or the more recent calling for tougher gun laws over the Lyndt Cafe incident.

"SYDNEY SIEGE SHOWS TOUGHER GUN LAWS NEEDED NOW

Thursday, Dec 18th, 2014
Today's revelation that the gunman at the Sydney siege had a gun licence must lead to tougher gun laws across the country....."

Not only was this blatant opportunism but opportunism based on a lie, which can still be read at
http://nsw.greens.org.au/news/nsw/sydney-siege-shows-tougher-gun-laws-needed-now

I must watch myself in future, it's not good form to slip down to the level of the Greens, my apologies.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 8:31:08 AM
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Considering campaigns to loosen gun laws and their enforcement one must turn only to the gun death rate in America, the home of constitutionally protected gun anarchy. Death from some clown's bullet is compulsory for each of the ten thousand US victims annually. Damage and death from poison sold on the streets is by contrast voluntary. Neither compulsory injury nor voluntary injury is desirable but there's a difference between the two that should not go unrecognised by apologists who use bikie involvement in the drug trade to support back door calls for bit by bit unravelling of the Howard gun laws.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 12:45:37 PM
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EmperorJulian,

Why use the USA as your exemplar, why not South Africa?
Or any of the other nations that have a higher murder rate?

See;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

for a breakdown of murder rates and an idea of what a safe country the USA is in reality.
This Wiki article is based on The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) figures.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 1:16:09 PM
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Is Mise, lets compare apples to apples, in the developed world the US rate is certainly much higher than other developed nations, Australia included, please explain your figures. If you want the US to look good simply throw in the lawless undeveloped nations of Africa where murder rates are totally unacceptable.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 7:41:21 PM
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Is Mise, my acceptable figure for murders is zero, what is yours? Is it like your acceptable figure for deaths on Australia's roads, which you mockingly used the Easter carnage to take a cheap shot at The Greens. You seem to have a scant regard for human life, in your ideal world, there are these acceptable levels of unnecessary human deaths, be it war, roads or hunting. All some kind of occupational hazard, in your way of thinking, possible unfortunate, but necessary.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 8:39:41 PM
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Paul,

Is Brazil developed, is Mexico, is Argentina?

Brazil : 25.2 murders/100,000 population.

Mexico : 21.5/100,000.

Argentina : 5.5/100,000.

and let us not forget South Africa, which is a developed nation, 31/100,000.

Is Russia a developed country?

You know, space flights, vast navy and air force, nuclear capability, impressive railways, magnificent buildings, big modern cities: 9.2 murders per 100,000 population.

The Greens appear to approve highly acceptable levels of murder, rape and assaults especially against the elderly.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 8 April 2015 9:52:42 PM
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Looks from the Wikipedia stats that the countries with no curbs on possession of guns and with untrammelled rule by drug lords and tribal savages lead the world in murder rates. Among the more civilised counties, the US murder rate appears to be more than fourfold Australia's. Thanks Mr Howard for standing up to the gunnies who can't enjoy their day without killing at least something.

What the stats, valuable resource though they are, don't show is the 10,000 or more Americans shot dead by other Americans through incompetence and sheer self-centred carelessness, as a result of the gun anarchy decreed by America's Slave Owners' Constitutional Amendment. The Wikipedia stats relate only to deliberate murder and even then the effect of gun anarchy is plain to see.

This latest ploy by a cross-bench bunch of rednecks in Canberra looks harmless in itself, but Harry Truman wisely advised that if a finger comes under the door stamp on it or it's followed by a hand and then an arm and is soon at your throat.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Thursday, 9 April 2015 12:05:51 PM
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Is Mise I will spell it out for you. The Greens acceptable figure for murders per 100,000 people is ZERO a big fat naught. However from your above post you seem to favor 21.5 per 100,000 being a figure you highlighted from Mexico. What is the acceptable figure from The Shooters Party? Was it a item for discussion at your shooters jamboree, what was the consensus figure 50 100 maybe 1000?
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 9 April 2015 12:08:45 PM
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Paul,

If the Greens' acceptable figure for murders is Zero why do they deny fellow citizens any means of self defence

"Principles.
7. That personal protection should never be regarded as a genuine reason for owning, possessing or using a firearm."

Why do they consider that a person in immediate fear of their life should not use a firearm to protect that life.
Consider a person attacked by a pack of dangerous dogs, should they not be allowed to use a firearm?

Julian,
" Thanks Mr Howard for standing up to the gunnies who can't enjoy their day without killing at least something."

Did you get out of the wrong side of the couch this morn?

"This latest ploy by a cross-bench bunch of rednecks in Canberra looks harmless in itself, but...."

What say you about 'The Parliamentary Friends of AFL"?

Will someone comment on Russia, is it or is it not a developed country?

For a broadening of the mind have a look at
http://gunssavelives.net/
and for a wealth of information see:
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=18319&page=1
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 9 April 2015 1:45:13 PM
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Not bothered about parliamentary friends of AFL, if there is such a group. The issue is guns and shooting, there's a head of steam behind the incessant demands to reverse the Howard reforms curbing gun anarchy. It is because of this that when the gunnies edge their finger under the door as "Parliamentary Friends of Shooting" it is wise to jump on it. Every time.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Friday, 10 April 2015 10:33:26 AM
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Is Mise, did you know Heinrich Himmler was very concerned about German soldiers shooting Jews during WWII. He was also a friend of shooting, not a friend of the shot, but concerned about the shooters and the physiological effect all that killing was having on them, so they invented gas chambers instead. A true humanitarian, was he not?
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 10 April 2015 12:06:47 PM
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Senator Penny Wright is now bleating because her Green's Senate Inquiry was undermined by shooters using their democratic rights and making submissions to the inquiry, which did not turn out as was expected.

Senator Bridget McKenzie used the low underhand tactic of asking the anti gun/shooting advocates to back up their submissions with verifiable data, she had the temerity to ask for factual references.

What is the world coming to when a Green is asked for proof?
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 12 April 2015 3:45:24 PM
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Julian,

You say "....the incessant demands to reverse the Howard reforms curbing gun anarchy...."

What gun anarchy?
Gun crime etc., has been in steady decline since well before John Howard stuck his ineffectual bid in, "Over the past 18 years (1 July 1989 to 30 June 2007), the rate* of homicide incidents decreased from 1.9 in 1990-91 and 1992-93 to the second-lowest recorded rate, of 1.3, in 2006-07.

*rate per 100,000 population."
http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html

The highest rate in the period mentioned occurred after Howard's efforts, so, Julian, as you have asserted that Howard curbed gun violence will you now subscribe to the theory that he in fact increased it?
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 12 April 2015 4:18:38 PM
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In the 19 years before Howard stood up to the gunnies there had been more than a dozen multiple gun homicides. In the 19 years since, the gun massacres had all but stopped. The fact that there have been any at all is because those who committed them were able to get hold of guns - the Howard laws, though a watershed that the gunnies clamour to reverse, have made it a lot harder for them to get hold of firearms, especially the deadly assault weapons that the gunnies crave. The data shown in Is Mise’s Institute of Criminology reference relate to total homicide, not gun homicides. Howard was targeting gun homicides which reached a crescendo at Port Arthur. The massacres have all but petered out.

But yes, bad guys can still get hold of guns in Australia. The Howard laws are not yet nearly draconic enough, and have been weakened by gunnie pressure. The laws preventing people carrying firearms on to airliners, for example, mean you can travel on them secure in the knowledge that no-one on board can shoot you. Those standards, both in legislation and in enforcement, are something to which we should aspire. The right to live free of bullet holes is a basic human right. The power to inflict them is not.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Sunday, 12 April 2015 7:49:38 PM
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Julian,

You are on the ball, even if a little biased.

You could have saved time and space however if you had quoted
"The percentage of homicides committed with a firearm continued a declining trend which began in 1969. In 2003, fewer than 16% of homicides involved firearms. The figure was similar in 2002 and 2001, down from a high of 44% in 1968."

Note the year of commencement '1969', as I said a downward trend that commenced well before Howard's push for posterial recognition.
John Howard's laws had no effect on the downward trend.
http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html

You should have read the whole article.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 12 April 2015 8:10:29 PM
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I did in fact carefully read the Institute of Criminology account from go to woe, looking particularly for anything it said about gun homicide before and after the critical year 1996. It said nothing at all about gun homicide until the last chart which was not about the number of gun homicides but about the ratio of gun homicides to total homicides. The chart said almost nothing about changes since 1996 and that period was scrunched in the right hand corner. It did look as if this ratio plummeted abruptly after 1996 (assuming the peak was due to the Port Arthur triumph of gun anarchy) – a sharp decline being what I would have expected following the abrupt drawing of some of the gunnies’ fangs.

The sentence about the declining trend in that ratio since 1968 I also noted. But again, that comment said nothing about any difference in the time before and after Howard stood up to the gunnies which could give information about the result of the new restrictions.

I’m glad Is Mise noticed a bias. It’s a bias between the human right to personal safety and the wish of a small section of the community to compromise it. I have a similar bias between the human right to life and liberty and the programme of the Moslem cult to compromise it. It’s a bias I’d commend to everyone else as I value living in a community which shares it.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Sunday, 12 April 2015 10:37:32 PM
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Is Mise, thanks for that copy of Lance Boyle's latest cookbook 'Cooking The Crap Out of Critters', you remember good old Lance the now unemployed gun happy NSW public serpent who was cavorting with certain unsavory politicians the 'Two Bobs' from The Shooters and Hooters Party. Well I couldn't say for sure the book come from you as the kangaroo blood had smudged on the inside page where it was signed, but thanks anyway.

I tried my first recipe the other day, 'Boiled Galah', one had dropped dead in my backyard. As instructed I boiled the critter for three weeks in a large pot with a rock, when I thought the rock was soft I threw away the galah and the family attempted to eat the rock, some of the kids gave up and tried to eat the bird, but soon relilsed it was too tough and returned to the rock.

Now I've got a wombat hanging in the plimb tree, picked it up about a month back, road kill, I don't actually shoot anything. I'm going to give Lance's 'Wombat Stew' a go. One question do you think I should leave the maggots in or out, do they add flavor?
Now, this is not a joke, its very serious stuff, you know I never post funnies.

p/s "The Friends of the Shot" held a meeting last weekend at the MCG, unfortunately the 'House Full' sign went up 2 hours before the meeting kicked off so I couldn't get in. But I do believe they were able to launch The Vegans cookbook 'Organic Tofu and You'.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 13 April 2015 6:32:47 AM
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Julian,

You must have missed this,

"Trend in firearm homicides...."

graph.

Shews downward trend from 1989 to 2011/12 then it rises.

How do you account for the rise?
http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide/weapon.html
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 13 April 2015 6:47:15 AM
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Is Mise wrote: Julian,You must have missed this,
"Trend in firearm homicides...." graph.

Easy to miss it as it wasn't there. Check his link which was http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html. The three charts show (1) Homicide victims from 1993 to 2007 (number per year)
(2) Homicide incidents in Australia, 1989-90 to 2006-07 (number)
(3) Homicides involving firearms as a percentage of total homicides, 1915-2003
No other graphs. Nada.

The later additional reference to the criminologists (a profession dedicated to inventing excuses for criminality) brought two more charts, with careful smoothing into long term trends and cherry-picking otherwise random dates, to show that killers, deprived of guns, are choosing knives. This confronts people with a weapon that has to be used up close, with some chance of self-defence, instead of one which is used at a distance and en masse which leaves people with none.

The recent rise in gun homicide (if there really is one) would be accounted for by the limited interim scope and steady erosion of the Howard war on guns and the need for something much more thorough and draconic.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Monday, 13 April 2015 1:22:27 PM
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That's funny Julian, I clicked the link that I gave and it was there.

I share your concern for the victims of crime or other brutality, just how would a person protect themselves against a pack of dogs?

Judo, ju-jitsu, karate, run, dial 000?

Surely you can think of some way to give the potential meal a fighting chance.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 13 April 2015 5:51:09 PM
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Julian,

I note that you are in favour of draconian laws:

"draconian
dr&#601;&#712;k&#601;&#650;n&#618;&#601;n,dre&#618;-/Submit
adjective
(of laws or their application) excessively harsh and severe.
"the Nazis destroyed the independence of the press by a series of draconian laws"
synonyms: harsh, severe, strict, extreme, drastic, stringent, tough, swingeing, cruel, brutal, oppressive, ruthless, relentless, summary, punitive, authoritarian, despotic, tyrannical, arbitrary, repressive, iron-fisted; raresuppressive
"collaborators suffered draconian reprisals" (courtesy of Google).

Fits.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 13 April 2015 5:59:05 PM
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Is Mise, why haven't you given me any ideas about cooking that wombat hanging in my plum tree. How do you cook your wombats?
I didn't see that graph, are you making it up, where do you get your graphs from, the 'Two Bobs'?
Note, not all engineers are the automotive types. You said you were a cook, with a best selling cook book: "our magazines and popular award-winning cookbook Field to Fork - The Australian Game Cookbook" So how about it, pull me out a decent recipe for me wombat!
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 13 April 2015 8:08:16 PM
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Give up the attempts at humour, Paul, it's not really your forte;
stick to dodging embarrassing questions.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 13 April 2015 9:41:26 PM
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Is Mise, you keep firing the bullets and I'll keep dodging em'. Now how about something on me wombat?
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 14 April 2015 8:06:36 AM
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Wombats are a protected species, Paul, and here was me thinking that Greens favoured the protection of them; can't give you any clues on cooking your wombat as it's against my principles to aid (in any way) in the illegal destruction of protected native animals.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 14 April 2015 10:48:00 AM
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But Is Mise, it was 'road kill' I think it got done in by the 'Two Bobs' as they drove their 4WD into the national park to do some koala hunting! I'm just doing a bit of ecological recycling! Like them hunters, the more they kill the more they claim to be saving the species.Me thinks it was the bloke who shot the last Dodo who said that first.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 14 April 2015 11:00:07 AM
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Paul,

You're like most Greens, out of touch with reality; it is an offence to harvest road killed native animals for any purpose, they are to be left to rot.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 14 April 2015 6:04:29 PM
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Paul,

With your knowledge of, and being in close touch with the NSW Greens perhaps you could explain

"Policy.
23. Guns in urban areas are to be stored at gun clubs under lock and key, with firing mechanisms kept at designated police stations;"

Just how would this work?
I've searched the Greens' site but can find nothing on any recommended procedures or any costing.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 14 April 2015 6:35:59 PM
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Is Mise, being silly, you know what a gun club is, and you know what a police station is. Now I suggest you re-read the policy a5 or 6 times and see if you can work it out for yourself. I can't hold your hand all the time when it comes to Greens policy.

I must confess I am having a little problem with this statement

This Policy Statement of the Shooters and Fishers Party (S&F), formerly the Australian Shooters Party, shall conform with each Policy contained in the Policy Statement of The Shooters Party. Where any conflict occurs, the Policy of The Shooters Party shall prevail. The Policy Statement of The Shooters Party is attached as Appendix 1.

Looks like the poor old Fishers got the bums rush on that one. Also I couldn't find Appendix 1, in fact I couldn't find any appendices at all. Where is APPENDIX ANYTHING!
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 14 April 2015 7:41:15 PM
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Draconian laws are those that deny their target the possibility of offending. People are still getting shot because the current laws don't do this. If the German aggressors of 1914 had been subjected to draconian suppression for decades after 1918 they could never have got back on their feet, rearmed and launched their murderous Drang nach Osten. Humanity gains from draconian laws that protect human rights against those who would suppress them. Living is a human right. Freedom of speech is a human right. Freedom to let off firearms for recreation is not. Importing, owning, possessing and using firearms can be ruthlessly suppressed without infringing in any way on human rights.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Tuesday, 14 April 2015 8:15:52 PM
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Julian,

How about the human right of self defence?

How is that unfortunate, frail 70 year old woman going to defend herself against the 18 year old rapist/murderer?

C'mon Julian, you must have some idea.

Paul,

I can work out that the Greens' proposal 23. is unworkable, stupid and up to scratch with most of their ideas.

One thing does puzzle me, why do the Greens advocate combination locks for country use but key locks for city use; seems a bit inconsistent.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 14 April 2015 9:03:39 PM
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Is Mise, if you want to read a load of convoluted gobbledygook just go to the Shooters and Hooters Party policy site. The load of old cobblers (policy ha ha) they took to the recent NSW State election was a disgrace. According to this collection of selfish nincompoops, what is good for the one percent (them), is good for all. Talk about self interest, this mob thrive on it!

What is your position in the 'Land Rover' (Shooters Party) are you in the front drivers seat at the controls with the crazy 'Two Bobs' or are you riding behind with the likes of Lance Boyle and the rest of the gun happy brigade?

I wont even acknowledge this mobs nonsense by providing a link. Have to find it for yourself.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 15 April 2015 5:49:13 AM
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The gun lobby asks: "How about the human right of self defence? How is that unfortunate, frail 70 year old woman going to defend herself against the 18 year old rapist/murderer?"

Defence against young thugs who victimise frail old women lies in draconic treatment in the courts and in the legislation, not in spreading the power of the gun to every Tom, Dick(head) and Harry. Mandatory minimum prison sentences in harsh prisons for assault - several decades and no parole. If the gunnies really cared about frail old women's rights they'd be hammering the pollies for laws mandating harsh retribution the minds of thugs thinking of bullying the vulnerable. Frail old women also get victimised in America which is so awash with guns that ten thousand Americans are shot dead by other Americans (and not by frail old women) every year. That sort of slaughter is the hand and arm that follows the gun freaks' finger under the door.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Wednesday, 15 April 2015 12:28:18 PM
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Julian,

"How about the human right of self defence? How is that unfortunate, frail 70 year old woman going to defend herself against the 18 year old rapist/murderer?"

Don't you believe that self defence against unlawful attack is a human right?
I'm talking about the here and now, so how could she successfully defend herself?
Not depending on the Courts getting it right somewhere down the track; which is airy-fairy thinking.

Murder has been against the law in both civilized and uncivilized societies, with varying degrees of harshness re. penalties but it still occurs as does bashing of the elderly.
See:http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/04/15/05/49/local-men-asked-for-dna-samples-after-daceyville-elderly-woman-bashed
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 15 April 2015 6:33:42 PM
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Judging by that nonsense of a 70 year old woman shooting a would be 18 year old rapist/murderer, shows you are defiantly in the drivers seat with the crazy 'Two Bobs'.

Robert Bates was a volunteer deputy who'd never led an arrest for the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office.

So how did the 73-year-old insurance company CEO end up joining a sting operation this month that ended when he pulled out his handgun and killed suspect Eric Harris instead of stunning him with a Taser?

A lawyer representing the Harris family says the answer is simple.

Bates paid big money to play a cop in his spare time, attorney Daniel Smolen says, but he didn't have the training to handle the job.

Any comment Is Mise, Bates is your sort of guy, a gun slinging old fart!
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 15 April 2015 8:45:15 PM
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Paul,

Did I say anything about shooting?
But if you think that that is the only way that a 70 year old woman could effectively defend herself against a stronger male attacker, then full marks; you're begining to think at last.

Of course it's against Greens' policy that anyone should ever defend themselves with a firearm, but we'll let that pass as just another bit of their empty rhetoric.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 15 April 2015 10:25:46 PM
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Is Mise, we have debated this nonsense many times, your off the planet notion that there should be unrestricted gun ownership in the community. Some of the Shooters Party polices are reasonable, but this is not one of them I have said that in the past, but if unrestricted gun ownership is a policy, then it is a policy for disaster!
The policy put forward by The Greens, that self defense is not a legitimate reason to hold a gun licence is totally reasonable. What you and others don't understand is you actually make vulnerable people more vulnerable, not less, by giving them a gun for so called "self defense". They now have a new danger, not just the 18 year old rapists/murderer, but they have now become a danger to themselves and others in society.

I see you avoided comment on that Bates old fart in the US who shot a suspect by accident while paying to play copper!
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 16 April 2015 5:35:54 AM
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Some of the Shooters' Party ploys may sound reasonable, but they are the finger under the door - the thin edge of the wedge - in a wider plan to reintroduce gun anarchy, the law of the gun-armed, and more Port Arthurs which Howard thankfully got rid of.

This gun lobby finger under the door technique is reminiscent of Islam - all sweetness and light in demanding initially small concessions, playing the victim, while its real face is ISIS and Taliban and Boko Haram and Al Shebab and its "holy books" are an open declaration of war on every human liberty humanity has taken centuries of struggle to win and defend. Actually, come to think about it, Hitler's pre-war pattern is no different - play the victim, make ever-increasing demands for concessions, then follow up with mass extinction of life and liberty. Always beware of the finger under the door.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Thursday, 16 April 2015 6:07:55 AM
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Paul,

"The policy put forward by The Greens, that self defense is not a legitimate reason to hold a gun licence is totally reasonable...."

but that is not all that the Greens say, they say, in their policy, that a firearm should never be USED for self defence, now I put it to you and Julian, that it should be perfectly reasonable to use a firearm against a pack of dogs and it should be perfectly reasonable to possess a firearm for defence against them where the danger exists.

What some misguided person did in the US should not be part of the discussion unless the people who successfully defend themselves with a firearm are also considered.

" GARLAND, Texas — Police say a homeowner and two burglars exchanged gunfire early Friday morning in an attempted home invasion burglary — leaving one burglar wounded.

The Garland Police Department reports the incident occurred just after 7 a.m. on Friday, March 27, 2015, when police received a 911 call about gunshots in the 5200 block of Hollow Bend Lane.

“When officers arrived, they were told several men had come inside the home to rob them,” stated Garland Police Department Public Information Officer Joe Harn. “During the attempted robbery, shots were exchanged between the robbers and the homeowner.”

No injuries were reported for the individuals who live in the home but police say one of the burglars had been shot.

The two burglars were located in the area and taken into custody. Arrested were 24-year-old Caris Bryant of Dallas, Texas, and 27-year-old Dequalon Barnes of Dallas, Texas. Barnes suffered the gunshot wound and was taken to Baylor Medical Center in Dallas, Texas, where he was treated and released back into police custody.

Bryant and Barnes are both charged with aggravated robbery. No bond information was available.
- See more at: http://inforney.com/texas/item/3057-homeowner-burglars-exchange-gunfire-in-attempted-garland-home-invasion-one-shot#sthash.pm5isyMH.dpuf
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 16 April 2015 7:18:35 AM
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"A YALLOURN North man who was allegedly shot in the back on Easter Saturday is hoping the culprit will come forward.

Dane Difresco was camping near Glengarry over the Easter weekend when he woke to the sound of what he believed was a gunshot and a sharp, warm sting in his back.

"I've been shot" were the words he screamed to his brother and partner Jessica Furney when he saw a four-wheel-drive about 150 metres away at 4.30am.

Mr Difresco said he was lying on a blanket a couple of metres from a campfire while Ms Furney and her daughter were in a tent three metres away from him.

"The thing that was suspicious, as soon as I yelled out 'I've been shot' they turned off their headlights and went back up the track," Mr Difresco said.

Ms Furney said she had woken shortly before the noise of the gunshot to her dog barking and a spotlight flashing over her tent twice.

"I reckon they would have been able to see there was a tent and the car," Ms Furney said.

With no bullet fragments found in Mr Difresco's body, police searched the scene for evidence.

"It's just lucky no one else was hurt and that I wasn't lying the other way," Mr Difresco said.

Mr Difresco said police believed an object may have exploded in the fire causing his injury, but he maintained nothing other than wood and aluminium cans were in the fire.

Intending to start a new job last Tuesday, Mr Difresco said his injury had not only caused him pain, but had also impacted on his ability to start his new career.

The now stitched up wound is 2.5cm deep, and 5cm long by 3cm wide.

Ms Furney said the trip was her five year-old daughter's first time camping, who has since said she never wanted to go camping again.

"It's scary, we were in the open, we don't want this happening to anyone else," Ms Furney said.

Anyone with information in relation to the incident should phone Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000."

http://www.latrobevalleyexpress.com.au/story/3006600/camping-trip-nightmare/?cs=1462
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 16 April 2015 5:52:43 PM
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Is Mise, just want to know if your idea for "Gun Packing Grannies" has got official Shooters and Hooters Party endorsement yet? I would think it would be party policy by now, you being in the 4WD drivers seat with them there 'Two Bobs' and all.

What about a comment on that "Geriatric Gun Guy" in the US, Robert Bates who shot and killed a bloke while paying to play copper for a day. Any plans for the Shooters and Hooters to bring that in as policy for the NSW Police Force? Arming all the (rich) kooks and fruitcakes so they can play copper for a day with real guns. Would dovetail nicely with your "Gun Packing Grannies" policy.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 16 April 2015 8:49:12 PM
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BTT

<Shooters' forum aims for understanding
COLIN BETTLES

Too often we stereotype hunters and shooters as rednecks in this community

RECREATIONAL gun users, including those who help control feral animal pests damaging agricultural production, have a new parliamentary forum.

Parliamentary Friends of Shooting was unveiled on Monday night at an event attended by Olympic and Commonwealth games shooting champions Michael Diamond and Laetisha Scanlon, hosted within Parliament House, Canberra.

The new group will be co-chaired by Victorian National Party Senator Bridget McKenzie and Shadow Agriculture Minister Joel Fitzgibbon.

More than 40 members of federal parliament have already joined the group, which will hold a field trip in coming weeks for members to experience clay target shooting at a local shooting range.

The event was attended by NSW Nationals MP John Cobb, who was shadow agriculture minister in the previous parliament, and his former counterpart, Queensland Labor Senator Joe Ludwig.
..
“Hunting and shooting delivers an incredible economic, environmental and social benefit to our community, particularly in regional areas.

“Through the Parliamentary Friends of Shooting our aim is to assist Members and Senators who want to learn more about the sport and to have a go themselves.”>

http://www.farmonline.com.au/news/agriculture/general/news/shooters-forum-aims-for-understanding/2727353.aspx?storypage=1
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 16 April 2015 9:16:48 PM
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Paul,

How could someone protect themselves from a pack of savage dogs?

Would the Greens allow them something at all?

We do know that the Greens would prefer to see a person savaged to death rather than that they should use a firearm for self defence.

What's your take on this, Julian,
do you prefer to see a person ripped apart or would you let them have a gun and a chance?
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 16 April 2015 10:10:22 PM
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Is Mise , how about ray guns for when the space aliens arrive, or are they already here in the form of The Shooters and Hooters Party?
How about a reality check and make comment on 'GI Joe' Robert Bates in the US, a real person, a real incident, a real tragedy! How about ditching the nonsense about old grannies and wild dogs and make a decent comment, or are the likes of the Robert Bates in the world too much of an embarrassment for you?

Julian, I was recently speaking to one of our Green MP's about the 'Two Bobs' from the Shooters Party, Robert Borsak and Robert Brown, they describe Borsak as a "nasty piece of work", but think Brown is a "bit more reasonable".
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 17 April 2015 7:12:39 AM
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Paul,

The bloke in the States is as relevant as the home owner who defended himself, why don't you comment on that?
I wonder hy didn't we read about that in the papers?

I didn't realize that elderly women being bashed or people being attacked by packs of dogs was irrelevant, but I guess I'll never understand the Greens' priorities.

Nothing to comment on the bloke shot in Victoria?
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 17 April 2015 7:41:24 AM
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Is Mise,

"Anyone with information in relation to the incident should phone Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000."

I don't have any info on this for you or the coppers. I can only assume some member of the gun happy brigade mistook Mr Difresco for an over sized bandicoot, or some such critter, and plugged him. What is your take.

Do the coppers have a suspect, is Lance Boyle or the 'Two Bobs' under the gun, so to speak in relation to this investigation. Just asking.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 17 April 2015 10:32:31 AM
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Paul,

Analyse the article; can't you see a few things wrong with the incident?

Here's a clue; where did the bullet go?
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 17 April 2015 11:40:21 AM
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Are the gunslinging pollies trying to get gun laws relaxed in any way? If so they're harmful and if not they're not.

The gun lobby, however, is not harmless as it is seeking relaxation of curbs on gun possession. Even, now, trying to scare everybody with packs of killer dogs. Who has any chance whatever of being attacked by packs of dogs? Careful, Is Mise, not to claim it could be anyone. That could look too obviously like a ploy to arm everybody. The demand to extend that to anti-tank guns could be held in reserve until universal gun ownership breaks the ice.

The solution to any danger of being attacked by dog packs, if it is real, is to crack down hard on rednecks who breed or own killer dogs or engage in the "sport" of making them fight. Not to go Yank with untrammelled gun ownership. Or to accept any thin edge of the wedge with that in mind.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Friday, 17 April 2015 12:00:44 PM
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Julian,

Do you doubt that some people in Australia may live in fear of being attacked by packs of dogs?
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 17 April 2015 12:11:05 PM
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Is Mise, "Analyse the article; can't you see a few things wrong with the incident? Here's a clue; where did the bullet go?"

Having read the article you are referring to, I do not find the complainant's claims at all credible.

As well as the rather obvious lack of a bullet, in my view the dimensions of the injury could not have been caused by any known calibre. He and his party need to be questioned.

There are other apparent oddities in the description of events, but IMHO it is not worth pursuing them here because the lack of bullet and unlikely bullet channel obviously defeat the claim.

Why he and his friends would make/support the complaint is something the police would be looking at.
Posted by onthebeach, Friday, 17 April 2015 2:10:36 PM
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Is Mise, are you crying in your Wallaby Stew tonight following the victory of the Animal Justice Parties Mark Pearson in the NSW election. Mark was able to take the 21st and final LC seat with Greens preferences. You must be over the moon with that result. Ha ha.
Another voice to expose the lunacy of the Shooters and Hooters Party. Three cheers for Mark.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 17 April 2015 7:42:08 PM
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"Do you doubt that some people in Australia may live in fear of being attacked by packs of dogs?"

What's the evidence? Why are the attack dogs not culled by rangers that can use guns under current laws? Why are rednecks allowed to own attack dogs and let them loose? Why should all Australians have to live in fear of the far greater likelihood of being gunned down if the annual pre-Howard massacres are restored? If the gun freaks want the power to kill at a distance why not suggest referenda to decide if the Australian people really want gun anarchy - and be prepared to respect the result? Answer?
Posted by EmperorJulian, Friday, 17 April 2015 8:16:35 PM
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What are the chances of a gun toting granny being attacked by a marauding pack of rabid Pomeranian's on a Tuesday, during a thunder storm? Obviously given this very common occurrence there is absolutely no need for gun laws.

Come, come, Is Mise, your comment on that crazy old bloke in the US was a weak cop out, of cause it is relevant. You support the arming of old farts in society.

History, until 1934 it was legal in the US to purchase a 'Thompson' sub-machine gun, usually from a hardware store for $200. The Thompson was marketed as the ideal weapon to protect your property! It was also a favorite of the Chicago Mob led by Al Capone. The founding father of The Shooters Party in the US. Is Mise would you recommend it for that granny of yours?
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 17 April 2015 9:06:59 PM
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Julian et Paul,

"Seven dogs believed to have attacked and killed a Kimberley teenager have been destroyed.

The 18-year-old woman was found dead in the backyard of a house in Fitzroy Crossing on Saturday afternoon.

Senior Sergeant Andrew Stephens said that while she had been mauled by dogs, it was not clear whether that had caused her death.

"Unfortunately this young girl was found deceased, and she'd received injuries which were consistent with dog bite wounds, " he said.

"But at this stage the cause of her death has not been determined."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-16/dogs-believed-to-attack-kill-fitzroy-teen-euthanised/6323666
These were Aboriginal dogs, ordinary folk in Fitzroy Crossing are only allowed to own a maximum of two dogs but the local Aboriginal community can own as many as they like and some like to own a lot.

"The peculiar circumstances that exempt Kurnangki from dog safety rules that apply on the other side of the highway at Fitzroy Crossing are now likely to be examined by the WA Coroner as part of her inquiry. Residents of the Aboriginal community can have as many dogs as they wish, while residents of the gazetted part of the town a few metres away may only have two each.

Shire rangers who see dog packs roaming wild at Kurnangki have to drive by. The camp at Fitzroy Crossing is an Aboriginal community, which means the council by-laws do not apply there. Rangers need an invitation to go there and they know from experience that if they act without that authority — as a ranger did at a nearby community a few years ago by destroying rogue dogs — they can be barred from entry. “We are powerless to do anything,” says Derby-West Kimberley shire president Elsia Archer. “It’s something that people have been concerned about for a long time but because of the different laws in the communities you can’t make people do anything. It has to be voluntary.

“If a dog bites someone here in town, you would have a ranger round there right away and the dog would be destroyed, but that can’t happen on communities.” ".
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/kimberley-locals-powerless-to-deal-with-killer-dogs/story-e6frgczx-1227288505977
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 17 April 2015 10:40:44 PM
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Paul,

Indeed three cheers for Mark Pearson, admittedly another S&F member would have been great but Mark is far better than a Green because he really does care for animals and their welfare, unlike the Greens he does not support the use of the incredibly cruel 1080 poison.
He is also concerned about road kill which amounts to

"An estimated 86,000 native animals are killed each year on Australian roads and many others are seriously injured."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-09/sleepless-nights-for-wildlife-carers-as-road-kills-reach-peak-o/5191722

however at
http://www.australiansforanimals.org.au/2014/01/08/roadkill-infographic-by-budget-direct/
the estimate of deaths is 500,000 per annum, which seems a more realistic figure.
i narrowly avoided two possums and a wallaby last night, driving between Inverell and Glen Innes.
In 'roo country at night I drive at 80 kph, at 100 there is much less margin of safety.

I searched the Greens' NSW site but could find no reference to road kill, which is strange as they call themselves conservationists; perhaps there is no political mileage to be gained if the motor car is part of the equation or perhaps they don't really care.

1080 and all that.
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 18 April 2015 10:24:05 AM
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The "clever" solution: arm every "responsible" redneck in Australia. Mr/Ms "responsible" would carry a loaded rifle in the car, stay below 50 mph, and on seeing a native animal slam on the skids, grab the rifle, leave the car, cock the rifle, shoot the animal, eject the cartridge, return to the car, drive on (avoiding the carcass). What convoluted scenarios the gunnies dream up to justify demanding nationwide open slather with guns!

Dogs in Aboriginal communities? If an unregistered dog enters non-community land, capture it and destroy it. If the communities REALLY want to run their own law inside their own territory, let them live with the consequences. There is no evidence the teenager wasn't killed by someone else and the body mauled by dogs.

Enough of twists and turns. The bottom line is clear - the gun freaks want pre-Port Arthur open slather restored and the fancy scenarios are mere fluff.

Re the the Greens - I don't speak for them. I see their party as social engineers who fear democracy as they have demonstrated in the WA Upper House. But at least they oppose revamped dictatorship by the gun-armed and their brand of social engineering is less-worse than that of the other parties.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Saturday, 18 April 2015 11:56:07 AM
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Julian,

How could a person defend themselves against a pack of dogs?

Alloy your fantasy to run and tell us.
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 18 April 2015 12:35:35 PM
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Wow, if the authorities can't protect the public from wild unregistered dogs then individuals may occasionally be attacked by packs of them. Solution: Place everyone in Australia in the cross-hairs of armed freaks. Worked wonders at Port Arthur.

I suggested the gunnies seek the democratic solution - referenda in the states on reintroducing gun anarchy. Or reliable opinion surveys eg through Roy Morgan. And respecting the result. That is a question the gunnies, holding the targeted population (us 99%) in contempt as they clearly do, persist in ducking.

Referendum or survey question: "Do you wish the present restrictions on gun ownership to be relaxed? Yes/No". And respecting the result without further whining about lacking the firepower to shoot people dead.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Saturday, 18 April 2015 1:58:36 PM
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Julian,

How could a person defend themselves against a pack of dogs?

Allow your fantasy to run and tell us.
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 18 April 2015 4:07:16 PM
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How could a person defend themselves against a pack of dogs?
Allow your fantasy to run and tell us.

Is Mise, you ask this senseless question over and over. The answer is obvious, it was staring us in the face all along. I postered it without realising.

Issue every Australian, all 23,000,000 of us, with a 'Thompson' Sub-machine gun along with a magazine of bullets, fires 800 rounds a minute. We'll given em' to the granny's, we'll give em' to the kids, we'll even given em' to the insane, we'll give em' to the criminals, we'll given to the old farts, we'll even give one to you, and your nutty mates, no exceptions. PROBLEM SOLVED! No more shall the population be attacked by out of control packs of wild and rabid Pomeranian's as they pass by Fitzroy Crossing (population 928).

Is Mise can I have yours, and the 'Two Bobs' agreement on this, and we can rush it through Parliament in the dead of night without debate. Satisfied? I might not have taken you too serious on this but Julian has, so give the bloke a fair go, and stop the wind up! Just wind me up I'll give yah as good as I get, I always do with you. Thanks mate.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 18 April 2015 4:52:03 PM
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Paul,

Thompson sub machine guns cannot fire 800 rounds per minute.

I find it funny that a Green is favouring an automatic firearm, thought that they were against them.

I'll ask again, just how could a person defend themselves against a pack of dogs.

How about a comment on the bloke shot in Victoria by hunters?
Thought that this would be right up your alley, or do you suspect, like many others, that he's telling a few fibs?
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 18 April 2015 5:17:49 PM
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How about a comment on the bloke shot in Victoria by hunters?

OK Is Mise, just received me latest copy of 'Field To Fork' have a look at page 63 'Camper done in a Camp Oven' served with 'Koala Stuffing' sounds delicious, lets give it a go! Judging by his age me thinks "well done" should be ideal, we'll slow roast him for about 4 hours, yum! What do you think?
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 19 April 2015 12:38:35 AM
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I think, Paul, that you are in a corner of which you can't get out.

So. to alleviate your squirming, I'll post something positive from the Greens' Principles.

"4.2 education on the dangers of firearms;"

now that is a worthy aim.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 19 April 2015 8:25:07 AM
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Is Mise, I am pleased you have seen the light and now embrace the policies of The Animal Justice Party.

<Based on the evidence of endemic corruption in the Greyhound Racing Industry, it is the AJP’s position that there is no other course of action to take than to shut this violent and corrupt industry down.>

I agree, so do The Greens, you have moved away from your wishy washy position you previously posted, good.

<AJP seeks a new legal status for animals, acknowledging their right to live protected from human harm.>

Is Mise there goes your hunting, no more Rambo's running wild in the rangers! Are you now a AJ party member?

To quote you "Indeed three cheers for Mark Pearson... he really does care for animals and their welfare"

I totally agree, I second your motion.

I have had a look at AJP policies and they complement Greens policies nicely. Although I can't say the same for the Shooters and Hooters Party policies, the little there is, out the door they go as far as Animal Justice is concerned.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 20 April 2015 7:22:36 AM
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Paul,

"<AJP seeks a new legal status for animals, acknowledging their right to live protected from human harm.>"

Ain't goin' to happen, McDonalds and KFC are popular with voters

"Is Mise there goes your hunting, no more Rambo's running wild in the rangers! ...."

See above, and that's a bit slanderous as Rambo was straight, can't say the same for all the rangers though.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 20 April 2015 7:34:52 AM
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Is Mise, I don't know about Rambo, looks rather strange to me, a typical hunter, here is a video of some possible weekend rabbit hunters in action, in a national park. Or was it the first weekend social outing for the 'Friends Of Shooting'. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqzIM6e0EnI
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 20 April 2015 9:17:33 AM
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Getting desperate, Paul?

how about an analysis of the claims of that bloke in Victoria?

Based on the article, was he shot as he claims?

How about a comment on the Greens being in favour of education in the dangers of firearms.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 20 April 2015 11:32:46 AM
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is Mise, The Greens are in favor of education, naturally with the extreme danger attached to firearms. You must be concerned with the ease with which people are issued a firearm licences, and permits in Australia.

Here is a rather unbiased article on firearms in Australia.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/12/18/how-easy-it-get-gun-australia

Another question. If our guns laws were to be relaxed to US style non laws, you seem to support, can you envisage a 'Bates' like episodes in Australia and other gun horrors like in the US?

Australian example of the dangers we are talking about.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/man-critical-after-shooting-incident-at-lone-ranges-shooting-complex-in-belmont/story-fnhocxo3-1227093055401

p/s Cop the name of the shooting gallery where the man was shot, the second in 2 months. "Lone Ranger" shows the low mentality associated with shooting.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 20 April 2015 12:04:02 PM
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Paul,

The name of the place is 'Lone Ranges', your bias is clouding your perceptive abilities; or have you got 'rangers' on the brain?

If the Greens are serious about firearms education why do they want to stop 12 to 18 year olds being educated on firearms?

"Policy detail.
14. The abolition of existing minors' permits;"

Do the Greens also want the 12-18 age group banned from driving motor vehicles?

How are you going on the bloke in Victoria?

The attempted suicide at the range in WA shews a mental health problem; if he'd used a car would there have been as much attention, one wonders what the percentage of car deaths in WA are suicides?
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 20 April 2015 12:41:54 PM
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Is Mise, I would have great concern with a 12 year old zooming down the highway in a V8, or any car for that matter. Equally I have concerns with a 12 year in our national parks with a high powered rifle, or any gun for that matter. I presume that kid with the high powered gun, arrived at the park in his high powered car! As you would have it. I can also assume as you want no restrictions on the behavior of 12 years old, the same kid also has a case of VB and a bottle of scotch in his possession as well.

As for the "case" in Victoria, if there is a case. Have charges been laid against any person ie malicious wounding or malicious mischief? How far has the police investigation progressed? Until the facts are known what comment can I make. I do not condone nonsense behavior by anyone wanting to "get in the news" and/or waste police time. p/s The cops will have better things to do like chasing that 12 year old of yours down the highway as he powers through a 50 school zone doing a 160, firing his AK47 at will, whilst consuming his 10th can of VB! Oh! Nothing can be done about that, the Is Mise Party in government has made it all legal.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 21 April 2015 9:39:46 AM
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Paul,

It may have escaped your notice but 12 year olds drive motor vehicle in all States of Australia and moreover they do it legally.

What is wrong with educating 12-18s about safety with firearms and the dangers thereof?

In one place the Greens say that they are in favour of it and in another place say that they are against it.

Seems that the Greens don't know what they want beyond a desire to harass fellow Australians who are law-abiding.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 21 April 2015 11:15:56 AM
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Is Mise, BUT! Just as we do not allow 12 year old's behind the wheel and on the public roads, we should not allow them behind the trigger and in public parks. What responsible qualities does a child suddenly posses on their 12th birthday, that they did not posses the day before when they were 11?

Not only do you want to arm the old fogies, now you want to arm the children. Next thing you will want to arm the criminally insane! Or do you ready want to do that?
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 21 April 2015 11:46:42 AM
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Paul,

Who said anything about the public roads?

12 year olds are allowed to drive on private property, if you ever travel in rural NSW, with your eyes open, you will often see unregistered cars parked just inside the front gates of properties, this is the car that one of the kids drove to the gate to catch the school bus.
You haven't bothered to address the contradiction in the Greens' policy where they want firearms education and then want to deny it to people who are old enough to hold a driver's licence and drive on the public roads.

Strange.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 21 April 2015 2:51:37 PM
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Is this thread about the qualities of the Greens party and their policies or is it about relaxing curbs on gunnies? If the former it's strayed far away from relevance and if the latter it's only Is Mise who expresses support for gun anarchy and his magazine has long ago emptied.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Tuesday, 21 April 2015 3:59:55 PM
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Julian,

It's not to do with relaxing anything about shooting per se but it is about the ridiculous attitude of the Greens to the law-abiding activities of other Australians, Australians moreover who have been judged as responsible citizens who can be trusted with firearms and trusted to keep and use them sensibly.
People whom the Commissioner of Police has issued a licence that shews his confidence in them; if he doesn't have that confidence then he won't issue a licence.
Licensed gun owners are in a trusted strata of society, you too can attain membership of this elite if you are not barred by obvious mental defects or having a history of violence.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 21 April 2015 5:44:12 PM
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Is Mise, there are also irresponsible parents who allow their children to drink alcohol, watch extremely violent 'M' rated videos, and play violent video games, usually involving guns and killing people, all at the ripe old age of 12! None of these things are done in public, just like your 12 year old child driving a car on private property. Why? Because for very good reasons these activities are illegal for children in public, and so should any nonsense that children as young as 12 should be let loose with a gun on public lands.

<<People whom the Commissioner of Police has issued a licence that shews his confidence in them; if he doesn't have that confidence then he won't issue a licence.>>

Now, now, Is Mise are you claiming the C of P vets every single gun licence application? Next thing you will be claiming the Minister for Transport, conducts the driving test for everyone who wants a licence, including that 12 year old kid!

Julian, Is Mise started this thread to show that there is some sort of bipartisan support in parliament for shooters.All he did was name a few redneck politicians as sympathisers, plugged some crummy old cook book, and didn't even give the victims of these homicide hounds the slightest mention!
I did enlighten him to the fact no Greens were in attendance at this shooters jamboree. That set him off, and now the rest is history. As usual on this subject I have bounced my old sparing partner around the forum ring, given his two black eyes and knocked him out three time, metaphorically speaking. But he gets up, brushes himself off, and comes back for more. If nothing else I admire his tensity and determination despite the overwhelming argument against him.

The Greens who have reasonable levels of representation in many Australian parliaments, are seen by the gun lobby and supports as a major stumbling block to getting their way with gun laws. Our parliamentary members have been most effective on this here in NSW
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 21 April 2015 9:33:07 PM
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Is Mise, you try and claim people holding gun licences are the "saints of society", How about a comment on this guy?

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/man-who-wore-colander-on-his-head-for-gun-licence-photo-says-it-is-part-of-church-of-the-flying-spaghetti-monsters-religion/story-fni6uo1m-1226961620238

Or is he your typical licence holder? Is it a requirement in SA to getting a gun licence you must also be a member of The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Is there reciprocal religious arrangements for licence holders in other states? Are you a devotee of The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 21 April 2015 9:50:53 PM
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Paul,

The only metaphorical boxing that has been going on is your ducking and weaving around my questions, which a sensible answer to will shew the Greens for what they are.

Now I'll ask you again, why do the Greens think that a young person who has passed a driving test and got a license to drive on the public roads unsupervised should not be allowed to have a Minor's Firearms Permit?
Under that Minor's Permit he is only allowed to handle or use a firearm under the direct supervision of a full licence holder.
He is not allowed to use a firearm when alone, yet you, in typical Green's fashion give the erroneous impression that he can go off by himself and hunt in National Parks.

That, Paul, is lying to put it bluntly.

So why the difference?
Why do the Greens call for firearms education and then attempt to stop efforts to provide such education?
Why do they think that a person who has proven that he can be trusted to drive on public roads cannot be trusted to learn firearms safety under strict supervision?

As for the bloke in SA, good on him; obviously a man with a sense of humour.
Were I the bloke in charge in SA I'd rule that as it is a legal requirement that he carry his license with him at all times whilst using a firearm that he must appear as he is depicted on the license and wear his collander; probably wouldn't be long before he requested a photo change himself.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 21 April 2015 10:38:01 PM
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Is Mise, the child cannot go off hunting in National parks under supervision, because his supervisor could well be your friend Mr Albon from The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, wearing a colander on his head. Obviously a fruitcake, what is your preferred head gear when hunting? A pair of matching egg betters!
Just on that score of Mr Albon, that mate of yours. Why didn't the SA Commissioner of Police notice anything odd about your friend Mr Albon when he was conducting his personal interview. Are not police trained in the "powers of observation:, did he not notice at the time Mr Albon was wearing a colander on his head, or did he think that was normal behavior for people wanting a shooters licence?

I did ask; "Are you a devotee of The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?"
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 22 April 2015 8:38:52 AM
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No Paul, I'm a Catholic; now I've answered your question, how about doing a bit on the backlog of my questions to you.

It is very sly to keep repeating the lie that those on minor's permits can shoot without proper supervision.
But then repeating lies is the Greens' way, the lie about the Lyndt Cafe terrorist having a firearms licence is still on the Greens' web site.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 22 April 2015 3:43:05 PM
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Paul,

Just answer this very reasonable question,

Why do the Greens think that a young person who has passed a driving test and got a license to drive on the public roads unsupervised should not be allowed to have a Minor's Firearms Permit?

A permit which he can only use under the supervision of an experienced licence holder, just as when he was learning to drive he could only drive accompanied by and under the supervision of an experienced person licensed to drive that type of vehicle.

One might also wonder why a person who is old enough to join the Army, should in the Greens' opinion be stopped from having a Minor's Firearms Permit and be stopped from learning firearms safety?

Are the Greens now telling the Army what to do?
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 22 April 2015 4:25:24 PM
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Is Mise, to answer your question, I'll give you a reasonable scenario. It is possible that the 12 year old child could be under the supervision of your mate Mr Albon from The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, wearing a colander on his head.
I presented the story about Mr Albon, a real person in SA, holding a gun licence and you did not contradict it or even question that an oddball like this wacko should hold a gun licence. I wounder how many more oddballs and wacko's hold gun licences.

I have given you several times a valid, and most reasonable explanation to your second question about the Lyndt Cafe madman.

Next question!

By the way why didn't you pick up my typo I said you wear a pair of matching egg betters on your head. That should read EGG BEATERS! Anything would be an improvement on a calender. Testing you.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 22 April 2015 8:41:42 PM
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Paul,

"I have given you several times a valid, and most reasonable explanation to your second question about the Lyndt Cafe madman."

But you have never explained why David Shoebridge lied about it nor have you explained why the lie is still on the Greens' website.

You have still not explained why the Greens think that a person who is old enough to join the army and old enough to hold a NSW driver's licence is not old enough to safely be educated about firearms.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 22 April 2015 11:15:12 PM
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Is Mise, you keep prating on about guns for 12 year olds. Can I now take it you favor armed conscription for 12 to 18 year old's
You want to arm the grannies, and favor guns for nincompoops in South Aussie. What next, 'Grenades for Girl Guides'!

Now for the umpteenth time, and for the dummies, please understand The Greens have an obligation to maintain the historical record. Things, which were truthful at the time, as per the words of our Prime Minister, the Mad Monk, such things must be maintained for posterity and future generations (on the website).
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 23 April 2015 6:24:25 AM
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Paul,

"Now for the umpteenth time, and for the dummies, please understand The Greens have an obligation to maintain the historical record. Things, which were truthful at the time, as per the words of our Prime Minister, the Mad Monk, such things must be maintained for posterity and future generations (on the website)."

Thank you for that, but there is no such obligation and it wasn't true at the time as the mistake, by the AFP, had already been corrected.
However if it must be maintained for the historical record then appropriate apologies to the Commissioner and the folk at Firearms Registry ought to be added, just to keep the historical record straight.

You still haven't answered why the Greens think that a person who is old enough to join the army and old enough to hold a NSW driver's licence is not old enough to safely be educated about firearms.

Now here's a clue, even you ought to know that a 12 year old cannot have a driver's licence.

As for your typos, I only comment on the more humourous ones, to do so on all would be rather tedious and not good manners.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 23 April 2015 7:58:09 AM
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