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The Forum > General Discussion > Malcolm Fraser dies after short illness - aged 84.

Malcolm Fraser dies after short illness - aged 84.

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Jay, Malcolm Fraser was wrong about a lot of things, what human being isn't? Fraser's support of the Vietnam War was wrong, no question about that. As PM Fraser made mistakes, but on balance he was a good person.
No, neither Is Mise or myself tried to draw any comparison between Fraser and the fervent Nazi propagandists Goebbels, who through the blatant use of lies instigated hatred of millions, by millions.
I brought up the recent grubby comment in parliament by Abbott in making a comparison between Goebbels and Shorten. As for WWII, you are the histories revisionists on that subject.
Is Mise we seem to be on the same side on this one.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 22 March 2015 9:36:52 AM
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otb,

Your critiques of Ben Eltham - coming from
such a "deep thinker" as yourself who regularly
"cherry-picks" from The Australian and Piers
Ackerman, et al, shall be taken as seriously and
appropriately as they deserve.

Now back to the topic:

Mark Kenny in the Saturday Age, March 21, 2015
points out (as Ben Eltham did) that Malcolm Fraser's
death has prompted many Liberals to reflect on the
direction of their party, potentially adding to Prime
Minister Tony Abbott's woes.

Within hours of the 84 year old's unexpected death,
senior figures including Mr Fraser's former treasurer
and then prime minister, John Howard, spoke glowingly
of an "extraordinary Australian" who "brought great
integrity" to the nation's political class.

Mr Howard's treasurer, Peter Costello, said Mr Fraser made
an enormous contribution and would be "sorely missed."
"A very active mind, a very intelligent mind. He was a
tough man, and ...if Malcolm gave you advice, you listened."

Mr Abbott described Mr Fraser as someone who deserved the
continuing respect of all Australian Liberals.

The ABC will be airing a program on Mr Fraser this evening.
I'll definitely be watching.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 22 March 2015 10:01:20 AM
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I have just learned something new about
Malcolm Fraser from another poster on another
website:

"Malcolm Fraser was the only past or present
Coalition MP to have signed the
"Canberra Declaration on Gaza."
(The other 79 signatories all being past or
present Green or Labor MPs)".

http://www.gazadeclaration.com/

"Eternal rest grant to them, O Lord.
And let perpetual light shine on them.
May they rest in peace. Amen."

Vale - Malcolm Fraser.
A decent humanitarian Australian.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 22 March 2015 10:49:22 AM
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Jay, with the greatest possible disrespect, I think your views are repugnant and not fit to be expressed in civilised company.
Posted by Craig Minns, Sunday, 22 March 2015 11:01:15 AM
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Fox,

As an ardent supporter of open door immigration and the endless-diversity-Australia-has-to-have you could be expected in solidarity, in lock-step with Greens' Sarah Hanson-Young.

However Australians do NOT support such extreme policies and do NOT thank Malcolm Fraser's erratic over-compensation (personal) by bringing in against all advice and without adequate background checks, large numbers of Muslims from Lebanon, Vietnamese (allegedly only because they were allies) and from Africa.

While migrants are welcomed by Australians - unlike many other countries in the world - it is incumbent upon government to exercise due diligence and caution in doing so. Fundamental to that is preferring the independent, informed advice of DOFA and the Department of Immigration and complying with existing policy that has been agreed by his own government and by the parliament.

Taking large numbers from any one place at one time is fraught with social problems for later. Where that is combined with inadequate screening it is guaranteed that undesirables, and criminals will be admitted and given citizenship.

Fraser often 'winged it', displaying contempt for the views of his colleagues and for due process. In so doing he put the safety, welfare and quality of life of the Australian people he was supposed to be representing, at considerable risk.

Not considerations you or Sarah Hanson-Young would be worried about, frivolously declaring that the police can sort it out later - not that the Greens ever support the police of course.

Fraser's inheritance for Australians? Well one couldn't go past the necessity to have a special Middle East Crime Unit for that.
Posted by onthebeach, Sunday, 22 March 2015 11:48:17 AM
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Craig, Paul, Is Mise.
Many Germans killed their children and themselves rather than fall into the hands of the Soviets.
Joseph and Magda Goebbels made the heartbreaking decision to poison their children to spare them the ordeal of rape and torture at the hands of Soviet soldiers.
If anything is repugnant it's the characterisation of the final act of loving parents as "murder", what would you have them do, sit and watch as their kids were raped , sodomised with foreign objects and then mutilated whilst still alive?
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features11
While we're still on the subject kindly quote back to me the exact passages from Goebbels wherein he claims to hate Jews or calls for them to be killed. There's no record of ant senior NS figure ever discussing mass murder in public or private yet where Jews were killed en masse on the Eastern front there are abundant field reports giving numbers killed and the circumstances under which they died.
The fact is that the massacres were the end unto themselves, there was no wider context, Jews were killed with the objective being the killing of Jews, sadly tens of thousands of civilians died sometimes only because the Einsatzgruppen didn't have time to conduct them to the rear or worse, because they simply couldn't be bothered policing a particular area and wanted to move on.

Fraser was hated in his prime for good reason and nothing he did in later life made up for his actions in office so there's another comparison to be made in the same vein as my earlier comment. Holocaust deniers love to have socialite and noted anti Semite Michelle Renouf at their gatherings because she still affects the honorific "lady" and in their minds lends a certain gravitas to their dinners and lectures. So it was with Fraser, the so called bleeding hearts looking to mainstream their views were willing to ignore his former conduct simply because of his celebrity, what did Fraser actually do post 1983 besides pontificate?
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Sunday, 22 March 2015 12:02:57 PM
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