I drifted off to sleep last night after watching
the depressing late news on television.
And I thought -
how lucky I was to be living in this country.

Sure, we've got deadly animals such as -
sharks, poisonous snakes and spiders.
We've got our share of floods,
droughts, brushfires, storms, hurricanes, and the
like. Yes, we've got a high cost of living, and
property is expensive and at times poor customer
service.

But on the plus side - there's - our
stable form of government. A high
minimum wage, and a great standard of living.

Overall - we've got a great climate
and lots of sporting events to choose from.
We've got an outdoor lifestyle which is healthy.
We've got the most beautiful beaches in
the world. Plus the greatest seafood (and yummy mangoes),
and lets not forget our great healthcare system,
our unusual bird-life and animals, and best of all -
our fairly-easy-going - we're all-in-this-together-
attitude.

Your opinions please?

I absolutely agree Foxy.
We do live in the greatest land on earth, and obviously a much prized destination for both immigration and tourism.

I particularly enjoy our laid back lifestyle, with most people who don't take themselves too seriously and are welcoming to all who come to Australia.
We don't take our politics or religions too seriously, and that is very refreshing in this often uptight world!

Mostly I like that Australians can laugh at themselves and laugh with others too.
We have a rare, irreverent humour at times :)

Where does this "good life" exist because I want to move there.
What do I see on my daily morning walk? Piles of rubbish dumped in the street, Chinese brothels,an ugly Islamic prayer hall, empty shops, ugly sub-standard apartment blocks, graffiti on every wall, fence and sign. Drug addicts roaming about High st and Preston Market, people drinking under the Oak trees near the footy ground, the pokie pubs where only alchoholics and gambling addicts still go, knots of young Aboriginals and Africans smoking outside centrelink in Murray Rd with their glazed, red eyes. Two dollar shops, Pho bars and Chinese barbecue joints which never seem to have any customers, the few remaining old men at the Marche club and the last Greek cafe.
I was up in central Victoria on Saturday to attend a memorial service and there's no "good life" in country towns either unless you're independantly wealthy, yeah sure you have the bush but you won't have a job, one old timer I was talking put it this way: "The only export this town has ever produced has been it's young people".

What was good about Oz was the freedoms we enjoyed while growing up. We had very little crime and in fact, security was never really an issue when I was a young kid as everyone respected everyone else.

What's bad about Oz is this freedoms we used to take for granted are now fast eroding and security is now high on the list of our day to day lives.

Personally, I blame certain races who have been allowed to call this once peace loving nation home. I can back this up by simply pointing out that our crimes are all so often being committed by people who's name are near on impossible to pronounce.

Sorry, but the Australia I grew up in is no longer available for my kids kids to grow up in and that sucks.

I dunno Butch,
The way I look at it it's the fact that little has changed in the working class areas except that everything is now more expensive, Brunswick and Flemington were full of White and Southern European hoodlums when I moved down here in 1988 but at least you could rent a run down two story terrace house for 150 a week. Now we've "progressed", the inner city is full of African and West Asian hoodlums but a run down two story terrace is now $700 a week.
I'm also only earning about as much as I was in 1988 in real dollar terms, at 21 I was on $25 an hour as a leading hand on a union site and working five days a week with overtime on Saturdays, now I'm self employed and charging $90 an hour but getting about three days work a week, if that.

Oh sorry Foxy, I forgot what I don't like about Australia.
I don't like whingers who blame everyone else for their unhappiness or problems.
I also don't like those that live in the past and constantly go on about the 'good ol' days'.
Lastly, I really the dislike racists and bigots who pollute our multicultural society.

Dear Suse,

I can only speak from my own experience.
I grew up in the Western suburbs of Sydney.
With quite an eclectic mix of people. My
parents worked hard and taught me the importance
of hard work and above all - education.
Moving to Melbourne - the same applied - work hard,
study, and you'll go far. I've got family living
in rural NSW all of whom work and wouldn't live
anywhere else.

We should really count our blessings - who else
has a public holiday for a horse-race. What other
country gives so many public holidays, has such a
high minimum wage, and such a high standard of
living.

I consider myself very lucky indeed.

I feel a bit sorry for JoM - because the Australia he apparently sees around him bares no resemblance to the one around me.

Looking out my front window, I see a quiet street, houses, a few cars, green grass, trees, a few people walking past and blue skies.

I suppose it depends where you happen to live as to which impressions you carry with you - and also the comparisons they engender with the past.

I have to say that I did quite like it when Australia wasn't consistently accused by the UN of torture - time way back when we looked down our nose and protested against countries who incarcerated and tortured innocent people fleeing persecution.

Another time, another zeitgeist....

"UN report to state Australia is in breach of international torture convention"

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/un-report-to-state-australia-is-in-breach-of-international-torture-convention-20150308-13ymlk.html

If you accept what is and make the best of it whatever it is you'll be probably be happy in most places. If you long for imaginary times past and wish you were somewhere else you'll probably be unhappy in most places.

Miniver Cheevy

By Edwin Arlington Robinson

Miniver Cheevy, child of scorn,
Grew lean while he assailed the seasons;
He wept that he was ever born,
And he had reasons.

Miniver loved the days of old
When swords were bright and steeds were prancing;
The vision of a warrior bold
Would set him dancing.

Miniver sighed for what was not,
And dreamed, and rested from his labors;
He dreamed of Thebes and Camelot,
And Priam’s neighbors.

Miniver mourned the ripe renown
That made so many a name so fragrant;
He mourned Romance, now on the town,
And Art, a vagrant.

Miniver loved the Medici,
Albeit he had never seen one;
He would have sinned incessantly
Could he have been one.

Miniver cursed the commonplace
And eyed a khaki suit with loathing;
He missed the mediæval grace
Of iron clothing.

Miniver scorned the gold he sought,
But sore annoyed was he without it;
Miniver thought, and thought, and thought,
And thought about it.

Miniver Cheevy, born too late,
Scratched his head and kept on thinking;
Miniver coughed, and called it fate,
And kept on drinking.

I am in Australia because my wife wanted to go back to where she was born and grew up. It's a pretty good place. So are many others. I'm happy here although I don't like it when people say it's the best country on earth. One can be happy here without putting down other places.

Well Foxy, everything you said is true and is still true in many
places, except even in those places many mothers are reluctant to let
the kids go and play with the other kids in the street.
They seem reluctant to let them out of sight.
Road traffic aside there is a change.

What you described is not true everywhere, whereas it was true everywhere.
This may be a feature of larger and more diverse population.

Suse,
Using the word racist is racism in itself.
I don't blame brown people for anything, they can't help it if they're stupid and violent and it's got nothing to do with me aside from having to educate my kids to stay away from them....which isn't hard because in working class areas like Preston there's very little social interaction between young people of different races anyway.
With only a couple of exceptions my clients are all White, middle class, inner city professionals, I can't explain why they're not spending money on home renovations at the moment but it's probably got nothing to do with immigration or security issues.
I've had a couple of wealthy Chinese clients recently which is fine but I'm never going to get a call from the West Asians, the Arabs, Afghans or the Africans because hardly any of them work or own homes, it's not "racist" to point out the bleeding obvious that people whose primary income stream is Centrelink aren't going to be paying it forward. As a recent study in the UK showed the only people who benefit financially from immigration are immigrants, it has no effect one way or another on the wider economy because they take out only slightly less than they put in.

Bazz,

"....except even in those places many mothers are reluctant to let
the kids go and play with the other kids in the street.
They seem reluctant to let them out of sight..."

Yeah, I think that's got more to do with our vastly different lifestyles than anything else.

Back then there were local shops and local communal facilities - hubs where the "local" community interacted on a daily basis.

We now have a society where most folk travel encased in a capsule to and from centralised shops and amentities. The "mall" now serves many suburbs which would have once each hosted those faciities themselves. People were more familiar with their close neighbours, etc - and that engendered a trust that the children would be reasonably safe if they went around their local communities unsupervised by their own parents.

So we don't travel, shop and commune with our fellow residents like we once did - which explains why kids don't play locally in the street with their peers....the parents don't know each other and are reluctant to allow the kids to roam around the neighbourhood willy-nilly.

Our Mr13 is not allowed to roam about - he's allowed to go independently to the local library, shops, etc and friends that "we do know" locally - but he spends time at his friends' houses only if we know the parents.

I take my grandchildren to a huge park nearby.
They have great fun there with other children.
They especially like the "flying-fox," which
is their favourite. We live in a very leafy,
green, tree-lined suburb with plenty of parks,
and walking trails. There are also advantages in
living in a small court as we know all the neighbours
and it's also a safe place for the kids to inter-act.
There is a very strong community feeling in our suburb.
People tend to look out for each other.

I don't mean to sound like Pollyanna - but I really have
no reason to complain.

We live a bit north of Brisbane. When we get up we put out seed for the seed eating birds. Most mornings we go the community swimming pool and exercise. Then we come back to the house and have breakfast. We have our breakfast drink on the back veranda and toss bits of meat to the kookaburras, butcher birds, magpies and noisy miners. Occasionally we see wallabies, koalas, goannas, dragon lizards and snakes. One wallaby became friendly and wanted a hug before going to his carrots and lettuce. Our nearby neighbours are great. They occasionally look in on us. When the water main connected to our house sprung a leak our neighbour who is a plumber detected it before we did and fixed it gratis.

There is so much to do that there is little time for TV. I try to watch David Attenborough's documentaries but usually fall asleep during them. I wish life were so good for everyone.

Foxy, would that be Jell Park ?

Dear Bazz,

No it's not Jell Park.

Although that's also a lovely area.

Dear David F.,

Your life-style sounds wonderful.

My elder brother lives in Byron Bay and he also has
interesting birds and wild-life nearby.
He sent me some amazing photographs of a family of
owls that I've had framed.

He goes surfing all year round and he loves the
beaut beaches.

There are a huge number of blessings in Australia. As already stated the beaches, the mountains and deserts are stunning. Its great that airfares are much cheaper than 20 years ago so it makes some of these great places more accessible to many. Australia is great because most get a fair go. Personally I consider it a great blessing to have friends from many parts of the world that have made Australia their home. On the down side more and more kids are growing up without a mum or dad and the drug problems are creeping into every part of society.We have been dumb with our open border policy and allowing ghettos to set up generational crime and welfare fraud. Certainly discriminating in favour of minorities is costing the majority. Overall however I know of no other place I would rather live.

Yes I'm with you Foxy, although I reckon we have been a bit lucky with our timing. My schooling that mattered was in Townsville, Bathurst & Young. In any of them a kid could walk or ride anywhere at any time of day in safety.

I got a scholarship to Uni when only those with half a brain went past intermediate, & in 1958 when a girl could catch a bus home after a late lecture, & walk the suburbs in Sydney safely.

I never had much money, too busy playing games, but our economy & system allowed me earn what I needed to play those games. It would have allowed me to become very comfortable, if that had been my wish.

You the taxpayer taught me to fly, gave me a lovely trip to Hawaii on your 23,000 ton cruise boat, & a private jet to fly around in when I was there. Hell you even paid me to do it, what more could a kid ask for.

Out of the navy, I could earn enough to fund my own Brabham, get to drive Formula 1s & for Holden & Ford. No money in it back then, but I think it was better that way.

I could even buy an old yacht, & go tripping around the Pacific, no restrictions or requirements other than a passport.

I was allowed to slip back into the society after 8 years with such ease, it was as if I had never left.

Starting at near 40, with very little, I've been able to do all the family type things, with real ease. My 20 acres is a beautiful place to be, out of the rat race, but not far enough to be a hassle.

I don't think there are many places I could have led my life, certainly none in the old world. Perhaps the US or Canada, but not as easily as it has been in Oz.

Yes Foxy, we are damn lucky, but I doubt our grand kids will get it so easy.

Dear Hassie,

I'm not worried about my grandchildren.

I am proud of the way my sons and their wives
are raising them and I am sure that they will
have the same values that our parents gave to us.
We survived and I'm sure they will.

We've got a healthy economy. A reasonable education
system. A stable political situation and a fairly
tolerant society. We are fairly safe, free from the
war zones, that we see on the daily news and free
from major crimes. Sure there are things we can
(and do) criticise, but really if we're honest about
things - we don't have that much to complain about.

Yes we still live in a great country, but I fear we might be losing that top position as we tend to demand more and more from other people and I think that goes for every strata of society. Self sufficiency seems to be something we don't think about now. It's all about entitlements. Integrity and honesty seem to have been replaced by drugs and deception. No longer does self responsibility become a part of our lexicon.

I have suggested on these pages before that I think advertising has become an immoral aspect of our lives that preys on the subconscious in a way that makes us feel we must have everything because we deserve it. It's all just there, don't worry it can all be paid off in the future and that also applies to governments as well. We now have to spend 11 billion dollars in interest alone on what we have borrowed this year and a third of the nation's revenue is spent on welfare.

I just hope that we can continue to be the Lucky Country because that's what a lot of it has been, pure dumb luck. We should be thinking about a little more hard work and little less about public holidays and sickies.

What I like about Australia is that I can still hunt;
hunting for me is a significant part of my heritage and I look back with pleasure at the first times that I went hunting with my father. His father before him had hunted and so on back into the past.
My maternal grandfather shot the firs rabbit in the Uralla district.

.

I was young and fancy-free when I was living in Australia. My only possessions were the clothes I was wearing, a second-hand motorbike and the money in my pocket. When I left the family home in outback Queensland at the age of eighteen I stayed with a friend in Brisbane for a while before getting a job in Mitchell about 600km west of Brisbane for a couple of years, where my pay was board and lodgings.

Then I got a job in Sydney and rented a house overlooking Sydney Harbour with a couple of mates. That was great. I had a company car, lots of girls, lobster and champagne on the balcony, etc. Still, my only possessions were the clothes I was wearing and the money in my pocket (no motorbike).

Seeing all those sailing boats and ocean liners going in and out of the harbour while basking in the sun on the balcony made me feel like jumping on one of them. But I first had to save some money by working on the Snowy Mountains Hydro-electric Scheme as a pick and shovel man. Again, it was free board and lodgings (in a workers’ camp) but this time there was also a wage which went straight into the bank.

I sailed from Sydney to Southampton on the” Fairsky”, hitch-hiked around Europe, worked on a fishing trawler in Iceland, and the money ran out in Paris. I knew nobody, couldn’t speak the language and didn’t have a work permit but got a job in insurance and survived.

From this observation point, the way I see it, the first wave hit Australia 50,000 years ago when the African boat-people arrived. The second wave hit 227 years ago when the convict-slaves were deported here. The third wave is pounding the coasts now with political and economic refugees.

Given our history and culture, I think it would be selfish for Australia not to do whatever it can not to help these people. Anybody who is willing to risk his or her life to get here is worth his weight in gold.

.

Jay, unfortunately the Suze's of the world don't recognize the word 'realism' so they classify anything said about immigrants/ indigenous as racism.

Now who ever said the only ones who benefit from immigration were immigrants would be clearly wrong if they were to use that phrase in Oz.

The simple indisputable fact is we wouldn't be the same place if not for the likes of the Greeks, the Italians or the Chinese to name a few. It's just when you throw Christian hating races in to the the mix it was always going to end in tears, and boy has that happened.

Australia had one huge advantage over most other civilized countries, that being our youth, which meant we could see how certain types not only failed to assimilate in their new countries of choice, but they were also wanting to take over. It's just that our forefathers were too damned stupid, or aragant, to have seen the blatant obvious when they threw open the doors to these other people who saw a different land of opportunity to the others I mentioned, as to them, the opportunity was to move here, have their multiple kids, knowing someone else will do the hard yards and our leaders were stupid enough to allow it.

In yet another display of continued stupidity, our leaders, having caught a couple of misfit thugs going off the join ISIS, stopped them from going rather than stooped them from returning.

We should have let them leave to never return.

So these thugs will now sit here and fester and intensify their hatred against those who have supported them, us!

An absolute joke!

So as I say, some people just can't differentiate between racism and realism, it's not that they can't, they just choose not to. Its a case of the old 'don't let the truth get in the way of a good story' situation.

Dear snake,

Working hard is a given in our family.
We've always done that.
However we do look forward to spending time
with the family as well - that's why holidays
are enjoyed with relish. As for sickies?
Those are only for extreme dire situations
when there's no other option available.

Dear Is Mise,

Isn't it great that we have so many areas where
you can indulge in your favourite sport?
The diversity of our landscape and the openess
is what many people find so attractive when
they come here.

Dear Banjo Patterson,

What an interesting life you've led.

My dream has always been to live by the sea.
My fantasy would be a home or an apartment with harbour views.
Who knows, perhaps when we retire.

Dear Rehctub,

I watched "Australian Story," last night.
It was about a prominent Muslim Lebanese family
in Sydney. They spoke of many things but their
love and appreciation of Australia came out loud
and clear. One of the sentiments expressed I still
remember - and it was that "Wouldn't it be lovely
if people would judge us as Australians, not as
Muslims. "

I guess that day is still a long way off when the
majority continue to be judged by the behaviour
of a few extremists or misguided people.

The fear-mongering isn't a good thing - epsecially
when done so well by our politicians and the media.

Foxy, may I suggest they were being treated as Austrlians, albeit a bit different, prior to their fellow (radical) Muslims wrecking havoc on the world. And remember, these extremists draw their haters from the Muslim religion, not from our Australian way of life.

So although they may well be great people, it's the beliefs they chose to bring with them that's caused most if the problems being experienced pretty much wherever they decide to imitate to.

My opinion is we need to ban the religion/faith, call it what you like and, if these moderate Muslims, for want of a better word don't like that, we simply need to remind them it was their doing by bringing their baggage with them that is the cause of the problems.

Muslim woman asks a question and probably wishes she didn't

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAoXgZLRee0

Dear rehctub,

It's a natural thing I guess to be wary of
anything that's different from the norm.
That happens everywhere not only in this country.

However, extremists interpret their culture and
religion to suit their particular agendas.
There are so many linguisitc, cultural, and racial
differences amongst the Muslims - that they can't
be described as all being exactly the same.
Not all Jews paractice their beliefs in exactly the same
way. Not all Christians practice their religion in exactly
the same way, and so on. Banning any particular religion is
not very logical. It will only strengthen adversity
rather than focusing on cohesion which is what we should
be striving towards.

It may take up to two or even three generations to this
country to become fully assimilated. Although as I stated
previously the fear-mongering by our politicians, including the
current government's emphasis on "security " and
the media - does not help the situation. Neither do the
shock-jocks, and certain political, ill-informed commentators.

Fox,

Your dreams will be fulfilled if L'il Willie Shorten and Labor, who propose to ramp up migration from the middle East.

<October 25: Shorten delivered a speech advocating a dramatic increase in Australia's intake of refugees from the Middle-East:

"Labor believes Australia can play a greater role in the international effort to provide refuge to the persecuted. Nearly two million Iraqis have fled their homes in the face of the ISIL advance – and millions more have been displaced by the conflict in Syria...

"Given the scope and scale of the current crisis gripping the region, Labor believes that, as a starting point, those seeking refuge from the current crisis in Iraq and Syria should be taken in addition to the existing allocation..."

This is significant policy shift. Given that most asylum seekers who came to Australia during the Labor years came from the Middle-East, and the Sunni-Shia schism has displaced millions of people, this represents an open-ended commitment to accept "those seeking refuge", which points to a massive increase in the intake from the Middle East.>

From your approved 'MSM', The Sydney Morning Herald.

You will be able to enjoy the Muslim call to prayer wherever you are.

Rehctub wrote: “My opinion is we need to ban the religion/faith, call it what you like and, if these moderate Muslims, for want of a better word don't like that, we simply need to remind them it was their doing by bringing their baggage with them that is the cause of the problems.”

Dear Rehctub,

When the English came to Australia they slaughtered a number of Aborigines who didn’t like other people taking over their land. Many of the surviving Aborigines were forced to live on missions. On the missions they were not allowed to practice their religion, but were forced to follow the various Christian sects of those who ran the missions. There was a complete lack of respect for their faith. That lack of respect still exists today.

I go to a community pool in the morning. One of the other people in the pool told me that some of the Aborigines were devil worshipers. I asked him what he meant by that. His son, a missionary, has seen them doing a ceremonial dance which originated in their Aboriginal faith. He cited Archbishop Jensen of the Sydney Diocese of the Anglican Church who called non-Christian religions ‘tools of Satan.’

The English had brought their religious baggage and intolerance to Australia. The Australian problem dates back to 1788.

The problem of religious intolerance goes back thousands of years. It seems most severe with the monotheistic religions.

By the time of federation most Christians were moderate although some extremists still exist. The Australian Constitution contains the following:

S. 116 The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth.

Bible bashing Christian fundamentalists have succeeded in bringing chaplains to the public schools. However, Christianity is currently much less of a problem since most Christians are tolerant and accept other faiths. Some Muslims have done the same.

S. 116 prevents banning any religion.

Dear David,

<<S. 116 prevents banning any religion.>>

But it's an empty statement: unless there was an agreed definition of 'religion', which there isn't. Otherwise the state can still ban any group and any practice it wants, simply by telling: "what you stand for isn't truly a religion".

While I may agree from a spiritual perspective that certain groups who call themselves a "religion" aren't so (or might have been so once but aren't so any more), this presents a dangerous slippery-slope.

Allowing the secular state to determine what is or isn't a "religion" is like allowing the cat to guard the cream.

David F,
Incorrect, Aborigines weren't forced to live on missions, they lived on missions or camped nearby in order to take advantage of the facilities, the rations and such and a condition of gaining access to those facilities was church attendance or work. It's called the "No free lunch" principle and there's no way a lone priest or nun and their small staff could compel Aborigines to do much of anything around a mission.
Your explanation is a blatantly racist caricature because it strips Aborigines of any agency, maybe these "proud" people really were too proud to take charity and saw church attendance or doing odd jobs around the mission as a more dignified exchange?
Maybe some Aborigines were just greedy, or lazy and did want free tucker and medical care, because as fully autonomous, thinking people they also have negative as well as positive traits, they have emotions and desires, they lie and concoct schemes and come up with excuses and sob stories just like anyone else.

Jay of Melbourne,

On Friday, 15 August 2014 I posted a thread: "Too many people complain in Australia". It got 27 pages of comments and read:

"I have Epilepsy and saw my Neurologist today. Upon going there on the bus, I started to get a condition from earlier this year.

My specialist suggested a solution.

I was really impressed with what was suggested, thanking her. I said I was was really impressed with the fact that we have so many intelligent specialists here, compared to poor and war torn countries.

Too many people complain in Australia - like the $7.00? GP payment. Why? Look at Palestine or many third world countries and their countires. Grow up Australia - and stop complaining! We are a lucky country!"

Also read this piece from G'day Bruce, highlighting my point well: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6531&page=3

Too many Australian people of the extremist left and right wing cause complain too much - after all it's cheaper than going to see a specialist for professional help, with an addiction. P.S It's called the complaining drug (or TCD).

Dear Yuyutsu,

There is no agreed definition of religion. We are also on shaky ground to have the secular state define what is and what is not a religion. However, being familiar with your posts on the subject I would trust you less to define a religion than I would trust the secular state.

I also disagree with your analogy of cat guarding the cream. To me religion is more like curdled milk.

Islam was, and is, and forever will be a political movement.

It is theocratic, not democratic and as such is implacably opposed to our way of life.

If it is not removed from our society it will eventually destroy all that for which we and our forebears have striven.

There can be no compromise with such a political movement because it, of its very nature, cannot compromise.

Dear Is Mise,

Equating Islam with Jihadi terrorists means
equating the beliefs of 1.5 billion people
with terrorism.

To me at least, that is not logical
or accurate.

'afternoon to you FOXY...

I do agree with your statement that we are all different, whatever our religious proclivities may be ? Christian, Jewish or any other religion, save for the Muslims. While it's true there are many decent, good law-abiding Islamic people, nevertheless the radicals exercise huge influence and sway over all Muslims, moderates or otherwise ?

As an example, prior to WWII most of the German population were just ordinary people trying to earn a modest living post the Great Depression of the 1930's. Along came Mr HITLER and a handful of crazy Nazi's and the whole world became enflamed in total war. You see, HITLER and Co held such great influence over ordinary Germans, and the rest is history, as they say. It should be noted many ordinary German people were of the Christian faith.

The same applies to Islam ! Ask any Muslim residing in Oz today ? If hostilities between Australia and the Islamic religion were to break out ? On what side would they fully support ?

(i) Would they defend Australia, against all Islamic influences and demands ?

or;

(ii) Would they defend the Islamic religion and everything it stands for, against Australia and it's interests ? Ostensibly their home, or adopted home ? The answer is unquestionably the latter, without a doubt.

For some inexplicable reason, their tenets and ideology, seem only to breed and nurture, the most violent of these zealot's and their splinter (ISIL) sectarian follower's, like no other religion that I've ever heard of ? Where violence remains still, most prominently, within their very strict belief systems ?

Nathan J,
At least I'm complaining on my own account and not on behalf of people I never knew the way David F does.
We don't have it good, no honest working person on the planet has an easy life and Australians, particularly White Australians are the least likely to make a fuss, maybe if they did we really would live in a decent society.
The only people who have a good life are the parasitic upper and middle classes, everyone else is just a stepping stone in their advancement.

Fox, "Equating Islam with Jihadi terrorists means equating etc"

You have been corrected on that Shorten spin many times before.

Here, from Paul Sheehan's report,

September 25: [Bill Shorten's] open letter also made the claim, since repeated, that Islamic State is not Islamic:

"We know that the twisted ideology of ISIL bears no relation to a faith of peace, love and tolerance which is followed by millions around the world – and we will continue to make this point. ISIL has no right to use the name of Islam."

The electorate does not buy this. Islamic State may be a lure for psychopaths and a loathsome fringe of Islam, but it is self-evidently Islamic. It justifies all its actions by an ultra-orthodox reading of the Koran. It feeds off the injustice felt by Sunni Muslims at their oppression by Shia-dominated governments in Iran, Iraq and Syria. The Sunni-Shia schism now involves tens of thousands of fighters operating in five countries.

Islamic State is to Islam what creationists are to Christianity. The literal interpretation of the Bible may be medieval, irrational and dismissed by the Christian mainstream, but there is no question that creationists are Christians. There are tens of millions of creationists in the United States and Africa, but they are not waging holy war.>

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/bill-shortens-bubble-starting-to-deflate-20150308-13y9x5.htm

Foxy, O sung,
See my earlier post, when we talk about radical Muslims we're talking about that 25% of the Islamic world population who hold such views as has been consistently shown in polls and surveys of Muslims.
That's somewhere in the region of 300 million people with whom we are effectively at war,to put it in perspective that's significantly more than the 1933 populations of Germany, Japan and the Soviet Union combined.
The peaceful Muslims are irrelevant as the speaker in the video says, but of course another 40% of adult Muslims agree with the views of the Jihadis but believe the killing of civilians to be wrong.
The Jihadis and Islamists unilaterally declared war on us because it's foretold in Islamic eschatlogy, they're following an Islamic timetable for the "end times" and that's the only reason they're waging war against us.

Dear Jay,

Just complaining about things doesn't achieve
anything - except perhaps justifying non-action.
However, actually doing something about it -
might achieve more. It's worth a try.
Because as the old adage tells us -
"If you keep doing what you're doing, you'll keep
getting what you've got.
Expecting anything different is not very bright.

Foxy,

Just read the the Noble Qur'an - &#1575;&#1604;&#1602;&#1585;&#1570;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1603;&#1585;&#1610;&#1605;

just disregard &#1575;&#1604;&#1602;&#1585;&#1570;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1603;&#1585;&#1610;&#1605
I was trying to be smart and add some Arabic script; mea culpa!

I don't know about you but to me it seems
only logical to try and stop misinformation,
bigotry and prejudice directed at the
Australian Islamic Community as Mr Shorten
and his party , is trying to do with their
"Open Letter," to the Islamic Community.

We certainly don't need to inflame tensions
that already exist and create further divisions.
Nothing constructive will ever be achieved with
fear-mongring attitudes except for media headlines and
stories that sell papers. Journalists need to
stop stirring the pot - and try to be more
supportive by looking at the bigger picture.

Here's a website that may be of interest:

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2015/02/25/4186872.htm

The other day, after hearing a report on the ABC, dealing with the account of two young Muslim 17 year old boys, trying to leave Oz for Syria. I heard a leading Muslim cleric challenge the PM, for the government to do more to stop these young Muslim youths from becoming 'radicalised' ?

Surely this particular task belongs squarely within purview of the Islamic community itself !

Dear O Sung Wu,

The Islamic Community I'm sure - is doing all it can
with kerbing the influences on their young people.
But more needs to be done, definitely.
However, travelling overseas - the issuing of passports to these
young people comes into effect and that is something
that the government needs to examine more closely.
And curtail.

I believe that several young people were managed to be
stopped because of government intervention. For which
their parents, families, and the Islamic Community
were very grateful.

Hi there FOXY...

I'm sure the parents of these two lads are very pleased indeed that they were apprehended at the primary line. However when they get a little older I just hope they're endowed with much more common sense, and not seek to venture over to these troubled places ?

Dear O Sung Wu,

I fully agree.

However, if they do go - they will learn
quickly enough that these extremists are people
not to be reckoned with - and the young men may
well be asked to pay the ultimate price for
their stupidity. These people don't play games.
But then it
will be too late to save the fools from their
mistakes.

But that's life, I guess.

When considering the future prosperity, quality of life and peace for Australians it is necessary to compare and contrast the policies of the political parties who are likely to form government.

The removal of Howard's Pacific Solution by Labor PM Rudd was based on leftist 'Progressive' ideology and did not take into account the risks and consequences being advised to the government by the relevant and independent federal departments.

In the past, LNP PM Malcolm Fraser was responsible for an equally hare-brained 'feel-good' (for himself) migration decision that resulted years of violence in Sydney.

A a decision affecting one migrant, but the negative consequences spilled out to many, the decision by the LNP's Amanda Vanstone, Immigration Minister at the time, to allow in notorious Mafia crime boss hunted by the Italian police and Interpol would have to be a prime example. Labor did the same of course, and dozens of criminals entered and secured citizenship during periods of high migration - eg after military conflicts.

Now along comes Labor Opposition Leader Bill Shorten spinning to get a few more votes in marginal seats who is setting Australia up for ramped up migration from the Middle East,

<October 25: Shorten delivered a speech advocating a dramatic increase in Australia's intake of refugees from the Middle-East:

"Labor believes Australia can play a greater role in the international effort to provide refuge to the persecuted. Nearly two million Iraqis have fled their homes in the face of the ISIL advance – and millions more have been displaced by the conflict in Syria...

This is significant policy shift. Given that most asylum seekers who came to Australia during the Labor years came from the Middle-East, and the Sunni-Shia schism has displaced millions of people, this represents an open-ended commitment to accept "those seeking refuge", which points to a massive increase in the intake from the Middle East.>

[Paul Sheehan - The Sydney Morning Herald]

Quo vadis, Australian people?

"Quo vadis - Australian people?"
is a question that we all should be asking
regarding the treatment of asylum seekers
by our governments, past and present.

If an asylum seeker was asked:

"Quo vadis?"

It would be very apt to reply -

"To detention to be punished severely - again."

"The Diplomat," gives us the
horrific facts:

"Australia has one of the strictest immigration detention
regimes in the world. Detention is mandatory for
maritime arrivals, detention is not subject to a time limit,
and asylum seekers arriving by boat are unable to access
the courts to challenge their detention."

"...no distinction is made between children and adults..."

"All non-citizens who arrive in Australia by boat are subject
to a regional framework in the following
countries - Nauru and Papua
New Guinea's Manus Island - where conditions are extremely
harsh. Both locations are isolated with small populations
with minimal infrastructure and limited or no community
services."

"The asylum seekers in detention are exposed to a high risk
of developing psychological disorders, including depression
and anxiety, leading to self-harm and suicide.
Critical incidents including violent protests and high rates
of self-harm including lip sewing, self laceration, hunger
strikes and suicide have been directly attributed
to the extended periods in detention coupled with overcrowding."

This is very difficult to reconcile with our "fair-go,"
laid back image. This determination to deny the human rights
of asylum seekers it has agreed to accept under international
laws it has signed, is hard to understand.

We are told that "only a relatively small fraction of the
world's asylum seekers seek refuge in Australia (only around
2 per cent, of worldwide claims) and a high percentage of these
asylum seekers are deemed to be refugees (88 per cent of
asylum seekers are recognised as refugees)."

Given all of these facts it is indeed hard to fathom
"Canberra's official policy of deterring, detaining, and
deporting asylum seekers and its 2013 policy innovation of
transferring maritime arrivals to remote islands of
neighbouring countries for offshore processing
looks even more inhumane."

Years of politicising the issue - creates serious stain:

http://thediplomat.com/2014/02/australias-troubling-asylum-seeker-policy/

LOL, Fox you are incorrigible with that green-left spin.

You must be on Greens senator Sarah Hyhpenated-Hyphen's mailing list, regurgitating all of that spin, but hopelessly jumbled.

otb,

Kindly read the website that I gave
and from which I have quoted in my previous
post. It has no "Greens-Left" connection
whatsoever. It merely gives us the facts
on asylume seekers as well as the sources
on which the information is based.

You can either accept the
facts or choose to ignore them, that is
entirely up to you, your own political
inclination, your values, and your
mental capabilities of comprehension over
which none of us have any control.

However,
you do need to come up with more than the
tactics you are currently using if you want
to be taken seriously in any discussion
otherwise you will end up talking to yourself.

Foxy sweetie, you say, "I'm not worried about my grandchildren". "We've got a healthy economy. & A reasonable education
system."

Yes, well we did have, but please read below, why I doubt our grand kids will have it anything like we have.

In 2003-04, at the start of the resources boom, the age pension cost $18 billion. Last year we spent $39 billion. A decade from now the cost of the age pension will be $64 billion.

In 2003-04, the Government spent $1.5 billion on childcare and parental leave. Last year we spent $7 billion. A decade from now, we will spend $18 billion, a twelve-fold increase

In 2003-04, the Government spent $8 billion on Medicare. Last year we spent $19 billion. A decade from now, we will spend $34 billion.

Future commitments to hospitals, Gonski & the National disability insurance scheme will add an annual cost of $73 billion by 2023-24.

With a rapidly falling income, as our mining income shrinks with lower prices, there is simply no way we can fund these projected increases in spending. In fact there is little chance we can fund our present expenditure let alone an increase of $189 billion a year.

It is no use ignoring the future. We need to personally plan now for a lot less handouts from government, & make provisions for our own & our kids future.

Only those who prepare now will be in a good position in a decade. By then I probably won't notice if my dinner comes out of a pet food can, but many will be in that situation, if they don't take steps now to avoid it.

Dear Hassie,

I am not concerned about my children and grandchildren
as I stated earlier. Both my children are in jobs they
love, they have been well-educated and are achievers.
My husband and I have always worked hard all of our lives
and we have provided for our old age. Just as my
parents did. That was my families ethos. It was
passed down to us.
To taking care of oneself and not expecting anyone else
to do it for you. My children were raised with these same
values. As I am sure - my grandchildren will be raised
with the same values.

As far as the economy goes in this country - there
are reforms that the government can put in place. We're
having discussions on this forum on that very subject at
the moment on another thread

o sung wu,
On the same note as your last post, I noticed an article from the UK where the parents of the 3 girls that went to Syria are saying they knew nothing about the girls plans and are blaming the police for not informing them of the risk.

One wonders just where people expect government intervention to stop and where personal responsibility comes in.

Same with the young ones leaving here and going to the ME. It is the parents job to guide their kids. I shudder to think how they end up with so much hate and what conversations took place at the dinner table.

Mostly I think we should let them go if they are that stupid and keen for 'adventure', but forgo our citizenship in doing so.

There are plenty of stupid people. Like that woman, at the muslim riots in Sydney, who let her toddler hold the sign calling for beheadings. Claimed later she did not think beheading was violent.

Imported problems,

<Lawyer backing girls who fled to Syria is linked to 'terror apologists’
Tasnime Akunjee, who represents the families of the three teenage 'jihadi brides' from east London, is an extremist with links to Cage

The lawyer representing the families of the three east London girls who ran away to Syria is an extremist with links to Cage, the group which Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London, described as “apologists for terror”.

Tasnime Akunjee, also known as Mohammed Tasnime Akunjee, has been acting as solicitor for the families of Shamima Begum, Kadiza Sultana and Amira Abase, from Tower Hamlets, who travelled last month to join Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil).

He has led a campaign for Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, to apologise for the force’s “failure” to tell the girls’ parents that a school friend of the three pupils had gone to Syria, saying it had “disabled the families from intervention in [their] children’s plans”.

However, Mr Akunjee has previously said that no Muslim should co-operate with anti-terror police, arguing that Prevent, the Government’s counter-terror policy, is “straightforward, paid-for spying on the community”.>
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11463208/Lawyer-backing-girls-who-fled-to-Syria-is-linked-to-terror-apologists.html

As a side comment, while not disputing the child status of 15 and 16yr olds, years before that age I was doing most of the farm work of men, which involved handling machinery and chemicals. I can say without hesitation that 'girl' and all of the infantalisation, positive stereotyping and excuse-making that implies, is inappropriate. They should bear some responsibility for their choices, made freely.

G'day there BANJO...

You're of course perfectly correct. It's family influences that count most, whether it's a young radicalised Muslim youth, or western youth getting on the wrong track, hanging around with the wrong crowd. It's the senior, more sagacious family members, who should provide the counselling and necessary guidance, for the younger members.

Yet in some instances, where mum or dad, are 'crook' themselves, real no-hopers, then more than likely their poor behaviour, poor choices, and aberrant influences, tend to invariable rub off on their kids. I guess it's why the family has such an important responsibility to guide, educate and inspire their young charges with the correct ways in which to live their lives, and how to comply with Society's standards. Furthermore, become productive members of their own community, instead of becoming a burden on the citizenry of that community.

If the family tries, and continues to fail, with a particularly intransigent young family member, only then should the police be involved. Generally speaking once the coppers are concerned, that young person very often forfeits any chance of having a reasonably sound future, despite any good intentions that family may've had. Why ? Many young people consider, any involvement of police in their formative years (16 - 20 years), can almost be taken as a 'badge of honour', an overt display of how menacing and tough they (seemingly) are to all and sundry ? Furthermore, once they become unfavourably 'known' to police, it does count against them when applying for any government occupation in the future ? It's my understanding both State and C'Wealth governments routinely check 'ALL' job applicants, prior to being offered employment ?

While it's true, some youngsters do manage to extricate themselves out of this awful chaos and unsavoury tumult. It's very difficult to avoid, being declined a good job, purely because that young person is adversely 'known' to police. It's so tough to shake such a reputation, no matter how minor, or long ago it may've been ?

Getting a job also becomes rather difficult
if your name happens to be "Mohammad,"
as the political commentators tell us especially when
writing about Western Sydney.

The Muslim population of Australia is listed
by the ABS as being roughly at 2 percent.
Which makes it approx. 460,000 people.
Out of that 2 percent approximately between
170 and 250 Australians are estimated to be
fighting (or trying to) in the Middle-East.

That makes those wanting to fight overseas
less than .05 percent of the Muslim population
in Australia. Compare these
stats with the number of Australian troops
serving in the Middle-East. They are the ones
we should be more concerned about.

Therefore it seems to me that there is a wide gulf
between concerns in this situation
and the actual facts involved.

Fear-mongering and concerns that are being raised
seem to be out of all proportion to the facts as
they exist.

I guess that - "emotional
innumeracy" plays a role in the gulf between
concerns and facts. Many people tend to
express what's worrying
them in as much as vivid anecdotes stick - (especially
from overseas) regardless of whether they are describing
something very rare.

Governments should appease people's fears rather than
try to gain political mileage out of them.

I would like to thank everyone who took the
time to contribute to this discussion.
For me at least, it has now run its course.

It has been interesting reading the various
personal anecdotes and the pros and cons of
living in Australia. From all accounts the
pros seemed to outweigh the cons. We can all
be grateful that we do live in a country
where, unlike the problems that many others have,
we can count our blessings and consider ourselves
extremely fortunate.

I look forward to further interesting discussions
in the future.

Foxy,
It is good to see you applying some maths to statements. You have in the past said that it is unfair to discriminate against a group because of the actions of a few.

Depends on what you consider a 'few'

In this case there are approx. 500000 muslims in Aus and it is estimated that between 15% and 25% of muslims are radical. So even if one takes a middle figure of 20%, this means there are 100000 muslims in Aus that have radical or extreme views.

I consider 100000 to be greater than a 'few'

So it is from this pool that support for IS and others comes from and actions by 'lone wolf' terrorists.

The only way to stabilize the risk is to stop immigration entirely from muslim countries. The risk to our citizens is far too high for this to be ignored

Dear Banjo,

If you could back up your statements with
evidence, that would make them more credible.

Kindly supply where you get your stats from.

Mine were from the ABS.

Hi FOXY...

With all the whinging I go on about Australia, there's not a place on this entire planet, better to live, to work, raise a family and have the opportunity to cultivate so many marvellous friendships !

It's not Oz I whinge about, rather the character, and the integrity of many of our political leaders, that tends to push my buttons. Everything else is amazingly brilliant ! The weather, our beautiful harbour, our many diverse sporting teams, our stunning flora and exotic fauna, everything is perfect, we're so immensely fortunate to live here.

The only imperfection(s) that I can readily identify is us, ourselves the population at large ? I naturally include my own many deficiencies amongst those imperfections. Whinging about this, complaining about that, all that pessimism must have an detrimental impact upon those poor souls who have to listen to my incessant grumbling, that generally has nothing remotely to do with the immense bounty this beautiful, 'lucky' country has provided us all.

Gee we're so lucky to live in this amazing country of ours, and after all, we're only custodians, therefore it's up to us to protect and nurture everything that's so good, and so splendid about living here, in this still mysterious, great brown land, Australia !

Dear O Sung Wu,

What a beautiful post and sentiments.

Thank You so much, you've made my day!

I've just received an equally lovely email
from a friend of mine who was telling me how
beautiful Autumn is in the area
where she lives - with the
various colours of leaves on her trees.
With the mushrooms sprouting everywhere.
Mother nature is grand at this time of year.

It's human nature to complain from time to time.
But its important to count our blessings - and there
certainly are plenty of those in this country for which
we can all be grateful - that's for sure.

Hi (again) FOXY...

Sometimes we all need to pause a moment or two, just to count our many blessings, blessings so numerous, we'd probably lose count before we had the opportunity to calculate them all ? Indeed, we do live in the 'lucky country' ! Take care FOXY.

Dear O Sung Wu,

Bless You My Friend!