With the incredible growth of indigenous numbers thanks to access to seemingly endless handouts from government and social welfare groups and the total departure from socially accepted community norms such as marriage and birth within wedlock and the culturally acceptable practices of schoolgirls giving birth despite age or reference to fathers it is time the government defined just what level of blood mix actually makes a person aboriginal or indigenous for the purposes of social welfare.
Since it is the public purse that supports the vast majority of indigenous recipients the same public has a right to know just what, where and why his taxes are being handed out to so many people claiming aboriginality whilst being more Caucasian than aboriginal.
Australia is a divided nation. On one side there is the honest, hard working,tax paying citizen of whatever descent struggling to make ends meet and on the other the indigenous welfare dependent playing poker machines, guzzling alcohol and using drugs all on the public purse.
Reality is not racism and this is the reality we are facing today.

Instead of having a binary yes/no to the question of whether someone is entitled, how about we give handouts in proportion to their percentage of Aboriginality (with a lower cut off limit of say 1/8th).

eg: if someone has a full Aboriginal father and a Japanese Mother we say that are of 50% aboriginal heritage so they are eligible to receive 50% of any government entitlement.

(By the way: for those who think this is crazy idea: We already have entitlement systems where the amounts involved are proportionally awarded: eg. injury compensation-- the governments have lists that detail how much each body part is worth.)

chrisgaff1000, you've got one thing right: reality is not racism. Unfortunately your post is based more on the latter than the former. In reality there hasn't been any incredible growth of indegenous numbers, and there's not very much welfare advantage in being Aboriginal anyway.

Aboriginal people are a disadvantaged minority, and what we shoudl be doing is addressing the problems that cause the disadvantage. Introducing blood quanta requirements would do absolutely nothing to address the disadvantage, but would ensure they always remain a minority. It would also make us a more divided nation, as it would ensure people are treated differently according to race. And it would greatly increase people's sense of injsustice. It's an entirely bad idea.

The topic has a racist ending. Education is the only way of getting kids away from the camp.

Aiden, "In reality there hasn't been any incredible growth of indegenous numbers"

What you assert as fact is the exact opposite of the truth.

For comparison, population in the world is currently growing at a rate of around 1.14% per year. [http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/#growthrate]

"AUSTRALIA

...Between 1991 and 2006 the Indigenous population increased by 2.6% per year on average, compared with 1.2% for the total Australian population.

The population of Indigenous Australians is projected to increase to between 713,300 and 721,100 people in 2021, at an average growth rate of 2.2% per year. In comparison, the average growth rate of the total Australian population is projected to be between 1.2% and 1.7% per year over the same period (Population Projections, Australia, 2006 to 2101, cat. no. 3222.0)."
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/946D4BC28DB92E1BCA25762A001CBF38?opendocument

All of the growth in Aboriginal numbers is solely due to growth in that resident population.

However the growth in the broader 'Australian' population is entirely due to the increase in the number of Aborigines.

Whereas the mainstream population of Australia, at the urgent behest of the academic elite at the time achieved the desired Zero Population Growth way back in the Seventies and have maintained ZPG ever since.

It is very evident then that increases in the population of Australia are due to to increase in Aborigine numbers and from migrants (and reunion benefits).

What is also true but is NOT admitted and is in FACT concealed by federal governments who push a 'Big Australia' is that the large growth in the aged is affected significantly by the record numbers of migrants post-WW2 and after.
tbc..

continued..

In FACT, government reports have consistently shown that young Aussie couples are delaying their marriages and children because they cannot afford the large taxes to build the infrastructure and support the welfare of 'victim' groups which includes migrants apparently.

The luckless, exasperated young Aussie couples say they are NOT eventually having the children they wanted. That shows clearly why their population is tracking behind ZPG. To 'counteract', the federal government continues with record numbers of migrants, increasing the load on young working Australians.

Many migrants and particularly economic migrants coming from the most populous ethnic groups on Earth.

What is evident then and is the policy of leftist 'Progressives' is that the 'white' inheritance responsible for the democratic traditions, the Westminster system of government and Australian law are being diluted to extinction over time.

Rather than playing the man with the over-worn racism card, what about challenging the arguments put forward by the OP with facts and where problems do exist (and there are problems of welfare dependency for example) with your solutions?

I agree with thinkabit.

When you think about it white adult males in work are a minority group, & a shrink one at that. This is an even smaller minority when you restrict it to those in productive work.

I think we need a major welfare effort to support this endangered species. Once they go, there will be no more welfare for anyone.

onthebeach, a 2.6% annual growth rate is not at all incredible when you consider at a large proportion of the Aboriginal population live in underpopulated areas (where people do tend to breed at a higher rate). And because evryone with Aboriginal ancestry is Aboriginal but they're still a small minority of Australia's population, a rate of natural increase nearly double that of the general population is only to be expected.

Your ZPG claim is not a fact at all. The birthrates in the general population stopped falling and started rising when the Baby Bonus was introduced. And it is high house prices, not taxes, that are deterring people from starting families.

It is not people's race that's responsible for the democratic traditions, the Westminster system of government and Australian law. And all races are being diluted over time, but only racists think that's a problem.

I'll comment on solutions later.

Thinkabit, think you've hit the nail on the head. How much fairer could a system be than that.

My own brother in law is 1/32nd, on his mothers side and his five kids all received abstudy. They have to be kidding! Any wonder they are such a welfare dependent group.

Aidan,

You would be the only person who wouldn't regard an average increase of 2.6% per annum as high even by Third World standards, and it is a long period.

The rest of your post is equally ridiculous.

You make things up as your go.

onthebeach, I didn't say the rate wasn't high, I said it wasn't incredible and I stand by that claim.

What sort of rate would you expect fo a minority ethnicity with a shorter average lifespan than the general population?

One of the worthwhile campaigns in Australia is the 'Closing The Gap' initiative by all Australian governments to close the gap between indigenous, and non-indigenous Australians. in 2008 the COAG set 6 ambitious targets to improve the quality of life of our indigenous people. These targets are in the areas of life expectancy, child mortality, education and employment. All worthwhile and should be supported by all Australians, regardless of their political persuasion.

http://www.coag.gov.au/closing_the_gap_in_indigenous_disadvantage

Paul, while closing the gap may be seen by us as a great initiative, the problem is most indigenous continually play the victim card and as long as the gravy train continues they are highly unlikely to want to change, and let's face it, why would they.

They can rent a house for next to nothing, trash it, then either have it repaired or get another one. No bond, no commitment, perhaps just a smack on the wrist.

Then there's the welfare situation, you know there is a problem when indigenous people make headlines for getting a job, rather than loosing/not having one because if they are out of work and on welfare it's almost considered as the norm.

The sad reality is that if change is what's required, both parties must be on the same page, and while the indigenous front line people seem willing to instil that much needed change, the message doesn't make it to the masses.

You want proof, show me a full blood activists. They don't want change because the reality is they have never had it so good, they don't live in houses or missions, they live in a humpy on the outskirts, they hunt and gather with they draw comfort in the knowing their welfare cheque is in the mail.

Now while I can understand why people would see me as racist, the reality is there is a difference between racism and realism.

Butch, I'm not disputing what you say, even if you say it in such emotive terms. "most", "gravy train", etc, and I do not dispute there are major problems with our indigenous people, nor do I suggest there are simple solutions to those problems. Concentrating on the negatives does no one good, and we should be looking for positive answers and not finger pointing as some do.
I just spent the past 2 weeks in Aotearoa living with Maori, who incidentally suffer many of the same problems Indigenous Australians experience. We were able to see first hand peoples problems. It would be so easy to be dismissive of these people as worthless folk who have brought problems upon themselves, but that achieves nothing. My partner managed a couple of small victories with 2 people, got a woman an interview as a teachers aid in a bilingual school, and she advised an ex-con on making some money selling fish and other seafood, fresh water ells, he catches to the local community. That was not the purpose of our trip, but it was rewarding. My partner "T" could not resists, brought back some eel, mussels and kina, all frozen to Aussie.

'I just spent the past 2 weeks in Aotearoa living with Maori, who incidentally suffer many of the same problems Indigenous Australians experience. '

Paul

do they cause as many problems as Australian aboriginals? or is it only what they suffer more often than not from their own choices

Runner, people make bad choices, and people lower down the socio economic pecking order tend to make more than their fair share of bad choices. These very same people often lack the necessary resources and life skills to correct those bad choices. Nothing new in that! I do not presume to be judgmental of these people, but I do think there is a collective social responsibility to help secure better outcomes for such people who need our help. Do you agree?

'I do not presume to be judgmental of these people, but I do think there is a collective social responsibility to help secure better outcomes for such people who need our help. Do you agree?'

I do actually agree Paul however how many more billions have to be wasted with things going backwards? Being 'progressive' is certainly not pouring more billions into the hole. A little responsibility and less victimhood from leaders in community is desperatley needed. To many people making money in keeping people as victims.

"collective social responsibility"

Annually for longer than most here could remember, millions have been poured into indigenous and indigenous advocates and lobbyists.

However, the reports of the government's own auditor, the Australian National Audit Office, always diplomatic and restrained, nonetheless have reported year after year of fraud, waste and worst of all, lack of attainment of goals and scant regard for the very simple and practical recommendations for improvement of past reports.

Large numbers of indigenous have graduated from university, so it is will, not education that is the problem.

The collective responsibility that is lacking is from within the indigenous community.

" but I do think there is a collective social responsibility to help secure better outcomes for such people who need our help"

Interesting point. Some observations

People at all levels of the socio economic pecking order make bad choices, I accept the suggestion that those lower down on the pecking order may make more than a fair share of them. Our collective responsibility does not extend to enabling repeats of the same bad choices over and over by the same people.

It also should include compassion for those further up the income pecking order who make bad choices.

We have a tax system that hit's people based on income with no regard to need so the wage earner who has made "bad" choices which create a need to earn extra is taxed more to support those who's choices hinder their ability or willingness to earn an income.

We have a tax system that will send people into bankruptcy who have made bad choices which mean they cannot meet their tax obligations whilst at the same time placing no tax obligations on others who have made a different set of bad choices.

We have family law and child support systems that can be brutal over a sustained period for a bad choice in short or hoped for long term partners in what is often a very one sided manner.

My concept of social responsibility does not include supporting those who continue to despise those they take charity from. It does not included an increasing social responsibility as the hours I work increase to meet my own and my family's needs.

R0bert

One solution might be to start treating all Australians equally and get rid of the racist concept that aboriginal people are somehow different and need a paternalistic approach to their particular problems.

The Aboriginal Industry is one industry that we could do without.

Glad to see there are a few thinking individuals out there.
Perhaps it is time for you to show your colors to the general populace,the politicians and the aborigines themselves.
Most clubs will tell you that if you take the indigenous poker machine money away and they would be struggling to survive.
Up where I live, despite a ban on turtle and dugong killing, the 'locals' slaughter indiscriminately so they don't have to spend their social security pay on red meat and protein.
It means more booze and dope to keep the lifestyle flowing.
How stupid are we who work for our sustenance.
How stupid are we who care for the environment and its lifeforms.
How stupid are we who pick up a gun and fight for what we have.
How smart are they to sit around the public gardens and have another drink while they watch us protect their cultural existence.

rehctub,
I am in a position to know and I do know of dozens of full bloods and near full bloods living remotely who have six figure bank accounts because to just don't spend their social security payments.
One old fellow said to me "Boy I got plenty of money. I don't need your blood money. All I need is what I got....Freedom.

Yes Chris, I have spent a lot of time fishing around Weipa.

One time we camped near Marpoon Mission and the full bloods there lived in the bush, while the majority of misson residents we white fellas that hooked up with aboriginal women and these guys were the real trouble makers whereas the full bloods, who mainly lived alone could not believe how good they had it. A place to live and money for nothing.

I believe of all the comments, the one from Thinkabit whereby their welfare entitlement is determined by the amount of blood is a great idea, with a safety net of cause.

The current system sees some researching just to prove a point they have some indigenous blood in them and that's just milking the system. If we can't remove the leaches from the public tit, the only other option is to remove the tit from the leaches.

Despite all these anecdotal stories about Aboriginals and their six figure bank accounts, and fellas off the reservation, and on the war path, the simple fact remains Indigenous Australian are in the main disadvantaged members of our society. Some people because of their philosophical leanings oppose any assistance to our indigenous brethren purely because they see such people as "undeserving" of their charity. To justify their personal prejudices they "produce" these narrow anecdotal stories with some degree of negative content, then extrapolate this specific instance to cast a general negativity over the whole group.
On a number of fronts many Indigenous Australians still remain disadvantaged, health, education, housing, employment to name but a few. As a society we can equate to the negativity that some claim is the norm, and do nothing, or we can act to do our best to overcome the undeniable problems many Indigenous Australians face everyday. There have been failures, and there has been waste, some are quick to point that out, but there has also been successes, many of us are slow to recognise those successes, preferring to finger point and reinforce the failures. So be it, but I know where I stand.

Paul1405,

You sound very much like a dupe for those with a vested interest in maintaining a dysfunctional system because they get personal power out of it and are making hay out of taxpayer' millions that were earmarked to make a contribution to the welfare of Aborigines but are being converted into private gain.

The Australian National Audit Office reports are independent and they show wholesale waste and fraud - for decades.

You need to travel IN Australia to see for yourself. Then advise why some communities do well and some indigenous take advantage of education, but others do not.

Of course the Greens Protest Party is only interested in trouble and protest, sensationalism and headlines, so that is not so likely.

The Greens would prefer to get some votes from the ruthless and lazy, who along with their own relatives and mates have managed to get themselves into representative, advocacy and management positions where they are doing alright for themselves, but NOT for the indigenous housing and so on that those millions of taxpayers' dollars were approved for.

It is a fact that a dysfunctional system is protected and continued by those internal to the system and with a stake in the corruption remaining that way. The initiative and solutions must come from within the indigenous community to remove the greedy, corrupt individuals who block progress.

Taxpayers have been most patient but are exasperated and are demanding results NOW.

Beach, no thanks for your usual extreme radical opinion of The Greens. As for the rest of your comment, when waste and/or corruption are uncovered then the authorities are obliged to take action to correct the situation, not just with matters relating to Aboriginals but with all areas of government expenditure.
Your claim the system is dysfunctional, and I can only assume you mean totally dysfunctional, is a rather broad statement when there is no independent evidence to support that generalisation. there is no denial from me that things can be improved and things can be done better, can not see how that makes me a "dupe for those with a vested interests". As for your comment "You (Paul1405) need to travel IN Australia to see for yourself." I see the problems faced by indigenous people everyday in our large indigenous community in inner Sydney, the problems of the urban community are none the lesser that those of other indigenous communities. I see and deal with problem people regularly, do you?

Paul1405, "when waste and/or corruption are uncovered then the authorities are obliged to take action to correct the situation"

Ordinarily yes, you would expect that to be the case, but NOT where indigenous are concerned.

Otherwise why do you imagine that the deficiencies are found over and over again for decades?

Any observer of politics would know why that is so. I have already listed the causes. The exasperated public are demanding accountability and results.

The term 'wealth distribution' is used often these days to describe the disparity between the rich and the poor.

It would be very interesting to find out what percentage of indigenous folk receive what percentage of the overall funding. It may well be that 98% of the funding gies to 2 % of the population, as is often the case in third world countries.

If this is the case and activists are well catered for, perhaps this would then be one of the problems because they may well adopt the attitude of why rock the boat. For this reason it may be worth removing any conflict of interest that may be in place because let's face it, with the millions being paid for decades, little enrodes are being made in rectifying the ongoing problem.

Maybe by giving up to 4th generation aboriginals such areas as Coastal fishing, Forest, and inland plains, and river as self managed reserves and fund and teach them to live and produce income from product in those areas for the wider community and not give individual handouts. Once anyone lives outside those areas they accept the status of the wider Australian community.

Josephus segregation has been considered before, the trouble is they will still play the victim card. They are very good at it. They must be to have been able to get support for so long when they are 1 32nd or so

I am suggesting all aboriginals to 1/8 who wish to claim aboriginal status be granted suitable areas to earn income, eg fish farms, cattle and livestock [kangaroo, camel, buffalo, emu, crocodile etc] stations, forests for milling etc. All those eligible would be given a government grant to establish their project and supported on a diminishing scale up to five years. All those outside these guidelines live under the conditions of the general community.

Josephus.

I'm sure your 'put them back on the reservation' idea is well intended, with those kangaroo and buffalo ideas of yours. Again reality cuts in, and it tells me 53% (ABS) of Indigenous Australians live in major cities or inner regional Australia and only 22% are classed as living in remote Australia where I'm sure the crocodile farm idea would gain some traction. Unfortunately a Mount Druitt fish farm might not be received with the same enthusiasm, and be destined to wash right down the drain with the first big rain.
What do you have in mind for our urban indigenous, who incidentally are our largest single group by far, merchant banking or insurance businesses in the CBD?

Paul1405, "What do you have in mind for our urban indigenous, who incidentally are our largest single group by far.."

An earlier thread is relevant,

'More records broken in Indigenous Higher Education'
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5914&page=1

In it, this post for instance and I have quoted a section,

"Back in 2007, my late wife wrote an article about what she called the 'two Indigenous populations' - one which was work-oriented, and therefore education-oriented, and the other which was welfare-oriented and therefore grog- and abuse-oriented. Sorry, that's how we saw it. One population had decent health, education, employment etc. stats, the other had shocking stats.

The two populations overlap, of course, and in, say, a graduate's family, there will be drop-kicks and boozers, and occasionally, vice versa. But the two paths are moving off in different directions and it is up to the people - not that outsiders can do much at all - to decide which path to take. Dropkicks make their own decisions too.

But they are not puppets, or twigs in a stream, being driven hither and thither - they are agents in their own lives, and make their own stupid and disastrous decisions. Seriously - such people THINK they are being smart, clever, tricking the system, by avoiding education and skills, and therefore work, and staying on welfare and in that semi-criminal zone. Yes, there's a lot of violent death in that zone, but it's a bit late to think about it until afterwards.

So I don't bother much about them. There are many, many others who want to make a go of their lives. They are the precious ones, the people who will make a positive difference, who make an effort to contribute. They make up, i reckon, around two-thirds of the Indigenous population, are very often inter-married, and are raising their kids to a work ethic. They're not the dung beetles hanging around the @rse of the last giant Diprotodon. To me, they are the future of Indigenous people."

Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 16 July 2013 4:17:35 PM
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5914&page=2

What do you say to that?

Beach, what do I say to that, great positive, not the negativity that some posts contain. Then again that could just as easily be said about the white population as well.
How does that stack up against the post from Butch;

<< the trouble is they (indigenous) will still play the victim card. They (indigenous) are very good at it. They(indigenous) must be to have been able to get support for so long when they are 1 32nd or so>>

Butch implies it is an inherent trait of indigenous people to be devious in their actions when it come to gaining undeserved taxpayer support.

Paul, if aboriginal people live in urban society then they compete for employment the same as those in society. When I worked in Smithfield we employed a 1/4 caste aboriginal and he made an excellent welder. He did not want welfare like his cousins.

Josephus, you could say the same thing about anyone, a 5th generation Anglo-Australian. a Greek, a whatever. Why single out an Aboriginal as special in that regard. They may well have a higher percentage on welfare than average, the facts say they do, but as a disadvantage group in general, I would expect that. It is not unique for Aboriginals to become welfare dependent, many white people are also welfare dependent people.

I have not singled out aboriginals living in general community they are treated as community. I am suggesting Government assist aboriginals to 1/8 caste to set up their own industries and all others no matter their race mix be considered the same as the general community.

Paul1405,

Your red herrings change nothing. There is no hiding from the facts and sweet reason of the poster I quoted.

Just leaving aside the huge relative numbers of indigenous completing tertiary study compared with the Australian population and the strong support of the taxpayer that allows them to complete their courses, there is the alternative of a broad array of skills training and employment available under apprenticeships and the TAFEs.

Policies that have been in place for years ensure that any indigenous who wants a job will be assisted into one and will receive training, development and counselling support to get wherever s/he wants.

Just wondering why young indigenous men fall well behind the indigenous women in their take-up of the training and work though.

Josephus,

Any programs should be inclusive with indigenous input, not white man imposing what he see as best. Workable posative ideas should always be welcomed.
Following is a link to the 'Indigenous Governance Awards' this is positive, I applaud it.

http://www.reconciliation.org.au/iga/

Beach,

There are no red anythings from me. You always seem to be looking for any opportunity to dump on 'non whites' in society, could that have something to do with your extreme right views?

<<Policies that have been in place for years ensure that any indigenous who wants a job will be assisted into one and will receive training, development and counselling support to get wherever s/he wants.>>

I agree society makes a special effort with disadvantaged indigenous youth/people, I have no problem with that. Government through 'Centrelink' and other organisations tries to offer assistance to all job seekers, and so it should.

The Abbott Government has managed to push youth unemployment to 27%, and that is in the general community. It is a major catastrophe in Australia, and the only answer Abbott has is to cut off youth benefits for six months, a national disgrace.

Paul1405, "You always seem to be looking for any opportunity to dump on 'non whites' in society, could that have something to do with your extreme right views?"

Yet another red herring, another personal slur. Please show exactly how quoting Loudmouth's post is 'dumping on non-whites'. How could publicising the high numbers of indigenous completing university study be 'dumping' on them?

To take the example of construction, where a very broad range of skilled, semi-skilled and labouring vacancies exist and workers are being brought in on short-term vizas (under the Gillard/Greens government as well), it is an indisputable fact that any indigenous applicant would be given preference, an immediate start and whatever training and support s/he wants.

So if any of those indigenous you talk about are keen to work you know what to do. It would only take one phone call and government and the private sector are there to help. Government would lay on a bus.

Beach you didn't put up the phone number! I am in favor off ALL in society who can work, and should work, working, black, white or brindle, full stop. On the broader issue I know we are too soft on a lot of people in society and allow them to get away with murder when it comes to making a genuine effort at obtaining employment. Pension shifting is one of the greatest cop outs going. How many people are on a Disability Support Pension or a Carers Payment/Allowance when they have, or do no such thing, and genuinely could work.
Having said that, we do have an employment problem and we should do all we can to assist those in need. Is your view different to that?

Paul1405,

Yes, I do agree.

It was decent of you to reach out and put it so straight too.

Paul1405,
Are you saying education given by non aboriginals is not good enough training in skills? All those industries I have mentioned are not Indigenous skills suitable to give them income, when they only gather enough for today, and live off each other's gatherings.

"Any programs should be inclusive with indigenous input, not white man imposing what he see as best. Workable positive ideas should always be welcomed".

If they want to supply fish to the local markets they must develop their own fish farms with government assistance, and experienced fish farms expertise etc etc.

<<If they want to supply fish to the local markets they must develop their own fish farms with government assistance, and experienced fish farms expertise etc etc>>

If that is the desire of a indigenous community/group then who supplies the assistance/expertise is some what irrelevant to me. Where indigenous people have the expertise to train/educate all the better, rewarding to both parties, but it should not be a barrier in itself.

Josephus, "If they [aborigines] want to supply fish to the local markets they must develop their own fish farms with" no assistance from any taxpayer funds.

They should have to put up their own money as anyone else would. They should have to deal with obstructionists councils & state governments, as everyone does.

They should have to spend millions on environmental impact statements as anyone else would, & put up with vacuous interference, & legal challenges from ratbag greens, trying to cost them a fortune, & destroy their attempt to do something useful.

When they have done all this, they will have finally joined the community, which currently supports them from birth to death.

Hasbeen, why do I always imagine you dressed in a safari suit, pith helmet on head, big droopy mustache, blunderbuss at the ready, native beaters in the background, all in pursuit of the elusive elephant. You are indeed the last of the great white hunters! You defiantly belong in another age and time with a comment like that.

Probably because you are an out of date bleeding heart, who has not yet, [probably never will], realise we no longer have the money to throw at ridiculous feel good schemes for aboriginals, or dole bludgers for that matter.

Do you remember a similar scheme to make Palm Island work. The one where they were given a dozen overpriced diesel fishing dories, so they could make a fortune supplying Townsville's fish supplies? That little stupidity cost only about $360,000

Yea I thought you would be trying to forget that smart idea. Particularly when the only one still in one piece & running after a couple of months was the one doing the sly grog run to Townsville & back. That one made millions, but was also stuffed by 5 months.

Then there was the time we supplied $60,000 worth of brass water saving showerheads, when the island was running out of water. Big mistake. They were heavy. In 3 weeks every one of them had been used as fishing sinkers. Next good idea please.

As for me, the helmet was a nuisance working on my 1950s tractor, & kept blowing off when I was slashing or ploughing. It & the safari suit were too hot & sweaty for working on my 70s cars, & I couldn't get them on over my work boots. I prefer overalls. The good king G ones can absorb more grease before you have to wash them too.

Na! Those safari suits are for lefty posers.

Hasbeen.
Don't the Paul 1405 et to you. He is pro. He hate coppers and loves the dark side of society.
Just ignore him.

Chris, where have you been, throwing gays into the Parramatta River? Think I have forgotten that comment from you, many moons ago.

God I hope not.

We wouldn't want to pollute the Parramatta river again, not after we finally got it cleaned up.

Just found this thread. Fascinating ! Why is everybody so polite and civil ? Where is the entertaining abuse of yesteryear ?

'Disadvantage' and 'welfare': do the two have to work in opposite directions ? Is it possible to devise only 'welfare' programs which quite specifically enable able-bodied people to move from where they are to where they could be ? For example, that all able-bodied unemployed people, Black AND white, should be required to be involved in a Twiggy-Forrest-type program of identifying jobs, then training recipients for those jobs ? Or going onto further study in genuine, employment-oriented study programs ? And ever onwards and upwards - we each have only one life, so why not make the very best of it ?

As for that notion of fractional Blackfellas: why not simply enforce means tests for benefits, for a start ?

As well, for all those programs which are implicitly designed for explicitly-disadvantaged Aboriginal people, say from rural and remote areas, and NOT for urban people from relatively affluent and working backgrounds - why not enforce the requirement that anybody claiming to be Aboriginal, and 'therefore' applying for specific benefits (grants, scholarships, apprenticeships, etc.) must be able to demonstrate strong community links, perhaps through having worked in or for Aboriginal community organisations as well ?

Yes, all these mechanisms can be rorted, but one step at a time :)

It's amazing how early some of these dilemmas arose, and how often similar remedies have been proposed, in every State, and on average about every ten to fifteen years. I guess that's Aboriginal affairs.

Joe

The problem is that the now officially cited child abusers and torturers in the guvment want to be seen as if they are doing the right thing by the Original people, where in reality what they do is maintain martial law, over pay their mates and hand out a few scraps from the table.

You must remember the lions share of grants gets consumed by dead wood pencil fiddlers. So, in that regard, it goes directly back into the economy and isn't wasted at all, except to the extent that people who don't need it get most of it.

There is another problem. And that is the down trodden poor whiteys who indeed are made to do it tuff. And of course, it is from this corner that we get the worst of the racism and bigotry because they are usually uninformed. The title of this thread says it. As if we needed to define what constitutes Aboriginality when you people as a majority have voted for the people who have for generations used a definition of what constitutes Aboriginality to murder, steal, rape and pillage.

No, the scum in the guvments have no legitimate right to tell these people anything at all.

What is required is a return of Sovereignty and a return of land & sea and then the Original people can over time be capexed into independence, culminating in a situation where they are largely happy ( in that they have their land back) and where the poor white trash are no longer whining about paying reparations, which to be fair, could be used to take something of the mountain of their backs.

Their land, under the auspices of their own nation state in its entirety. That means, no you can't turn up and mine as you please and if you send a satellite overhead in the absence of a treaty you risk getting it shot down.

A two country continent, as it always should have been.

DreamOn, "if you send a satellite overhead in the absence of a treaty you risk getting it shot down".

What absolute nonsense! Are you friends with an exclusive Russian President or civilized citizen of the World?

Dream On,

You mentioned 'murder, steal, rape and pillage.'

In South Australia, the last person executed for murder was hanged in 1964. The last Aboriginal person executed for murder was hanged in 1862.

Perhaps I'd better spell that out:

In South Australia, the last person executed for murder was hanged in nineteen sixty four. The last Aboriginal person executed for murder was hanged in eighteen sixty two. One hundred and two years earlier.

It's just one little fact. Do with it what you like.

Joe