It's not disrespectful to point out that blast fragmentation warheads are designed with helical grooves to create aerodynamic, diamond shaped chunks of shrapnel and the MH 17 wreckage shows nice,neat little 30mm bullet holes with entry and exit points on the same panel indicating at least two strafing passes.
There's not enough information available on the web about the SA-6 series warheads to say for sure but most missiles use the most efficient method of fragmentation, which is the helical scoring on the warhead casing. Some missiles like the U.S HARM fire a shotgun like load of tungsten cubes but they're designed to destroy radar antennae and dishes on the ground, I wasn't able to find any information on an SA-6 family missile which fires 30mm ball bearings or 30mm flechettes.

Josephus, did you read about a skirmish from 1939 to 1945? Quite a lot of people got killed in it, restoring the right of peoples to self-determination. Many of them were Australians. To me they were heroes, never to be forgotten. To even consider the events in the eastern Ukraine in any other context brushes them aside. Who are the “bully boys” obstructing a civilised restoration of the right of peoples to self-determination in the captive regions of eastern Ukraine by the same process that honoured the same right in Scotland?

Rehctub, does singling out Russia, with no actual evidence, for a display of verbal heroics make Abbott “seem to care” about the victims of the MH17 murders? Indeed, be alone in “seeming to care”. Coulda fooled me.

Rehctub again: “Why wouldn't our leader put the Russian leader on notice that there are serious issues that need to be discussed?” OK. Here’s a serious issue - Organising internationally verified referenda to give the captive peoples of eastern Ukraine the right to self-determination. What a chance to shine in the world as a champion of human rights rather than a mindless buffoon.

Susan linear is ex via and sends me info on Facebook.she was the first non Arab to be arrested under the patriot act. She tried to warn the authorities about the 911 attaches and stop the invasion of Iraq,she backs up my last statement about the power of the rothschilds.

Susan last sent me info on countries who do not have a Rothschild central bank. These include North Korea,Iran ,Russia,China Venezuela, hungry Iceland and 2 others.is it not strange that all these countries are now demonised by the west? Ray McGovern is another ex via I get info from. Also see Robert David Steele.

The Ukraine is Russia's back yard and the west with proxies armed the nazi movement there to over throw a llegtimately elected govt. how would the usa like it if Russia destabilised Canada ?

The world is controlled by private central banks. Currently world debt is 5 times the gdp of the planet. Derivatives created by all this money printing is 10 to 20 times the gdp of the planet. We are in for a collapse never before seen on our planet, see James Richards the death of money. I

It continues to be a litany of lies and many fools on this site continue to believe them,

Of course, Tony's big match with Putin was only pasted on the billboards with the assumption that the two would actually meet with each other.

"“I certainly expect that while he’s a guest of Australia, he will undertake to have a conversation with the Australian prime minister.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/15/vladimir-putin-unlikely-to-meet-with-tony-abbott-at-g20-says-kremlin

However..

"“Russia is a part of G20 and the Russian president is free to visit the summit in Australia,” Peskov said. “His visit isn’t going to be a bilateral visit upon the invitation from the Australian side.

“As soon as Mr Putin confirms his visit we’ll make a relevant statement. The Russian government does not intend to respond to Mr Abbott’s colourful language.

“Mr Putin is unlikely to seek bilateral talks with Mr Abbott. Mr Putin’s office will be waiting for more diplomatic and pleasant occasion to get in touch with Mr Abbott’s office.”

Peskov is the deputy chief of the executive office of the president of Russia and a spokesman for the president."

So it seems that Mr Abbott's big mouth and impetuosity has crueled his agenda. Surely it would have been more prudent to keep his thoughts to himself in the lead up to the G20 - and perhaps then to have confronted Putin with his concerns.

The Credlin/Abbott administration is always careful to craft Abbott's often ill-conceived and embarrassing outbursts specifically to the domestic audience - they appear to believe that Australians admire a crass and overtly macho demeanour in their leaders.

Unfortunately, Abbott, when he ventures into the international arena, is confronted by the reality that he's the leader of a relatively minor player on the world scene - and any leader of note who he chooses to impugn for domestic kudos is always at liberty to snigger at the impertinence and then proceed to ignore the venerable Abbott and his cohort.

England and Scotland could do it without a shot being fired. I am sure that if shots were not fired in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine by separates then things may have worked out differently.

Quite right Poirot.

I wouldn't mind betting that Abbott won't get anywhere near Putin at the G20 summit, unless it is at the photo opportunity of all the leaders together.
Let's hope Abbott is not the one standing alone at the edge of the photo.

So Abbott can carry on like a manly macho he-man all he likes, but no one will notice...