Shadow, you can't have an international coalition consisting only of Australia and the Netherlands, it has to include our other major allies Ethiopia and Palau. Although I don't think the Palauians (people from Palau) will turn up this time, George Dubya failed to deliver the promised whomp'em last time, 10 sacks of flour and 4 blankets, just can't trust those Yanks. Besides I don't know what the Paiauians are bitch'n about, its more than we ever got!

Dear Poirot,

You wrote;

“The fact that Tony barrelled out into the public arena the first chance he got, beating his chest and accusing Russia and its ally of any number of atrocities without first checking his facts wasn't conducive to a whole lot of co-operation.”

Abbott's focus on Russia rather than the separatists was instructive. As with George Pell he is a follower of the late Bob Santamaria who was stridently anti-Communist.

David Marr, in this week's Quarterly Essay, remarks that ''Santamaria instilled in his followers a habit of discovering everywhere in the world around them a contest between the forces of good and evil.''

From a young Jesuit to now the PM Abbott's self confessed infatuation with Bob and his message hardly seems to have diminished. The enemies of his youth are his enemies still.

This remark from him a couple of weeks ago “None of us would have thought a month or so back that Australian uniforms might be within 30 or 40km of the Russian border” is just so telling. Why did he couch it in those terms? Because the thought obviously sends a thrill down his spine.

Well I am personally very glad we had the likes of Former Air-Marshal Andrew Houson to calm Tony's cold war hard-on on this occasion but I am positive Abbott will not be denied forever, and it is going to cost lives.

Parrot,

I have no doubt that you can glean anything you want including that Craig Thomson was innocent of using prostitutes in spite of evidence of his credit card use accompanied by a copy of his drivers license, and phone calls from his hotel room. Similarly, you allow innuendo to propel yourself on flights of fantasy concerning Abbott. However much you would like to indulge your fantasy about how much you know about what TA thinks, the reality is that you have no clue.

Can you remember the Libyan crisis when Rudd was at the forefront demanding military action against Gaddafi? What do "glean" from that. I heard not one accusation of warmongering from the left whingers.

The problem with politics and diplomacy is that what is said is often for local consumption or to convey a message, whilst the only real measure is what happens.

The real measure is what is the reality?

The reality was that most of Europe cared more for the gas that Russia provided than acting. TA's activism help to ensure that limited sanctions were applied to Russia and for a short while Russia backed off, a limited ceasefire was achieved, and the bodies, black boxes, and some evidence was collected. All without a single Aus soldier on the ground.

Similarly, when Indonesia said they would not tolerate turning back the boats, Rudd and Juliar quivered in their boots and did nothing. TA in a matter of months turned the boats around, and found Indonesia quietly helping.

When Labor's spying on SBY was uncovered, Labor wanted TA to grovel to SBY and promise never to spy again. TA acted to protocol, and drew up an agreement that pleased both parties and put the relationship in a better position than it had been in a decade.

SR,

TA and the rest of the world had more than enough proof of what happened. TA chose not to do the diplomatic shuffle around the subject. TA got results.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Okay I get that you have a life sized cut out of Tony that you give a great big kiss and cuddle to before going to bed each night but please spare us concocted tales about he and Julie doing anything but chest beating, waving their hands in the air and blowing ineffectual spitballs at the Russians.

This is what really happened.

22 July 2014, 12:19 AEST

“Pro-Russian separatists have handed over the two black boxes of flight MH17 to Malaysian authorities in Donetsk.
The handover came after Malaysia's prime minister Najib Razak secured a deal with rebel commander Alexander Borodai, which also included guaranteed safe access for independent investigators to the crash site.

Both sides signed a document at the headquarters of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, which Mr Borodai said was a protocol to finalise the handover.”

“Meanwhile, a train carrying the remains of the majority of the victims has left the crash site, as part of the agreement between Malaysia and the pro-Russian separatists. For days the bodies have been kept in refrigerated railway wagons at a small station 15 kilometres from the crash site, prompting fury from nations demanding the bodies be repatriated.”

http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/international/2014-07-22/mh17-prorussian-separatists-hand-over-black-boxes-to-malaysian-authorities/1346085

Abbott and Bishop were very much bit players in this. There was no way they were going to talk to the rebels because they were so intent on laying the blame directly at the feet of the Russians. It is likely the bodies would still be there if it was left up to the diplomacy on steroids that seems to be the only way these two know how to operate.

Thank God we had the Malaysian PM who knew what had to be done.

SM,

I write:

"So you appear to be saying that even though Tones envisaged his troop deployment as part of an international effort - that you can't see what sort of nutty idea that would have been in that particular arena in eastern Ukraine?

You can't glean that Tones was a little itchy to deploy "one thousand" of our personnel - seemingly at the drop of a hat?

You can't work out that the situation on the ground militarily in that area was a tad unstable?

Peace keeping missions usually require much time and effort to organise - and only occur when there is considerable co-operation and trust available.

The fact that Tony barrelled out into the public arena the first chance he got, beating his chest and accusing Russia and its ally of any number of atrocities without first checking his facts wasn't conducive to a whole lot of co-operation.

He's a dill...who's hootin' and hollerin' to add a bit of lustre to his Tin Pot credentials."

...and you reply:

"Parrot,

I have no doubt that you can glean anything you want including that Craig Thomson was innocent of using prostitutes in spite of evidence of his credit card use accompanied by a copy of his drivers license, and phone calls from his hotel room. Similarly, you allow innuendo to propel yourself on flights of fantasy concerning Abbott. However much you would like to indulge your fantasy about how much you know about what TA thinks, the reality is that you have no clue."

Since this Govt bombed...so have your debating skills - and your cred....

The trouble with the Mad Monk is he doesn't think. The primeministership has gone to his head. He is now thinking he is an international statesman, and a world leader, when clearly he is not anything of the sorts. Abbott is simply a nincompoop who should be kept in his box.
Fortunately Shadow for your benefit we have a couple of the best posting forumites in SteeleRedux and Poirot trying to point out the errors of your ways, but it would appear to be falling on deaf ears.
Shadow when are you going to buck up and realise Abbott is an idiot and his puerile attempts at saber rattling with the Russians is ridiculous! Who does he think he is, Julius Caesar?
Shadow, your immediate attention is required over on the Liberal Corruption Thread. You firefightings skills are need to hose down the latest bit of scandal concerning your CORRUPTION PARTY formally The Liberal Party. A party scumbag was caught out yesterday lying over a corps! He makes Craig Thomson look like a saint!