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The Forum > General Discussion > Abbott's Dogs of War.

Abbott's Dogs of War.

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Poirot, closer to home what the 'The New York Times' is saying is exactly what people like Christine Milne and Andrew Wilkie are trying to articulate. I suspect despite Shortens attempt at solidarity that many within the Labor Party and a few Liberals as well are also privately questioning our actions.
Once again the conservatives are presenting this as a limited easy war, from the outset of hostilities have they ever presented war in any other way. The beheading of innocent Westerners as abhorrent as they are, are having the desired effect of drawing the US and its allies into another ground war in the region. Abbott should certainly rethink Australia's response and not simply be going all the way with the USA.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 16 September 2014 7:45:33 AM
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Where is "Half Cocked' Tony going, last seen in an army tent in Northern Australia, well away from the action I must say. A better question might be, where is 'Half Cocked' Tony leading us. There are reports that an organisation Australia openly designates as a terrorist group The Kurdistan Workers Party, are they communists, is operating with Peshmerga forces in Northern Iraq, its not known if Australian delivered munitions have as yet fallen into the hands of these terrorists, but they may well do, very soon. Abbott no doubt sees this as a case of 'My enemies enemy is my friend' but this friend may turn around one day and bite us on the backside. When caution is required, Abbott is acting with reckless abandon, playing into the hands of the ISIS terrorists.
Abbott's decision to deploy 600 military personnel and eight Super Hornets and other planes to the United Arab Emirates will cost Australia at least $400 million a year, a defence analyst predicts.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/iraq-deployment-to-cost-australia-about-400-million-a-year-20140915-10h35o.html#ixzz3DQyOtYfK
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 16 September 2014 10:28:45 AM
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Paul,

"'The New York Times' is saying is exactly what people like Christine Milne and Andrew Wilkie are trying to articulate."

No they don't.

The US and Aus are explicitly saying that they are not getting involved in a ground war, and there is clearly no incentive to do so. The open desert areas of northern Iraq are ideal for warplanes and Drones to inflict maximum damage to any force that ventures outside a city, and to any fortifications within a city.

Neither is there any indication whatsoever that any arms destined for the Peshmerga has found its way to the PKK or the KWP, Nor any indication that an air attack on ISIS will increase the risk to Aus.

In short, not one iota of information that supports anything you or Milne claim.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 16 September 2014 12:13:40 PM
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Shadow, considering the budget crises, its good to see Tone found a lazy half billion per year to fund this little exercise. As for these ISIS crazies making themselves easy targets by running around that big open desert you refer to, they are not that crazy, you seem to forget ISIS occupies Iraq's second biggest city Mosul pop up to 2 million. What is Tone's plan to liberate the population in occupied towns and cities.
A good analysis of the Arab attitude by Dan Flitton in today's SMH.
Despite Saudi Arabia being a western ally, its governing theology is closer to ISIL'S than any other Arab state. On side are Egypt, UAE, Jordan and Bahrain, Turkey despite being a NATO member fears arming the Kurd's on the grounds that an independent Kurdish state would claim Turkish territory. Qatar is suspected of backing Islamist rebels in Libya with additional backing from the Saudi's. Iran is a "hidden" ally in the war against ISIL, supporting both the Iraqi government and Shiite militias, but the US is still cold on Iran over its nuclear program. All in all the West cannot count on 100% Arab support.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 16 September 2014 8:29:51 PM
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Paul,

ISIL is essentially Sunni, as is Mosul and Saudi Arabia who has a particularly strict interpretation of Islam. However, the assumption that SA supports the mass executions and ethnic cleansing that ISIL is doing, is yet another long bow. Similarly Mosul probably prefers ISIL to the Shia military, but as a city normally known for relative tolerance, is unlikely to be adapting to the ruthless tyranny of ISIL well, which is why the US is pursuing political reform in Iraq to be more inclusive of Sunnis.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 17 September 2014 6:12:53 AM
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"....which is why the US is pursuing political reform in Iraq to be more inclusive of Sunnis."

It all sounds so simple when you put it like that, SM.

Knowing the enmities in the region - and ignoring them - the US and its partners set about totally routing the Sunnis in the 2003 invasion. Since then, as Friedman notes:

"....Iraqi Shiite militias used to help drive America out of Iraq and encouraged Iraq’s Shiite leaders to strip Iraqi Sunnis of as much power and money as possible, which helped create the ISIS Sunni counterrevolt...."

"....And the other is the Iraqi civil war in which the Iranian-backed Shiite government of Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki systematically stripped the Sunnis of Iraq of their power and resources."

Er....precisely what many commentators predicted would happen - and it has.

And now we're going back to stick a patch on the mess we acted as catalyst for in 2003.
Posted by Poirot, Wednesday, 17 September 2014 7:04:44 AM
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