Shadow,

Only time will tell, the big mistake made in the past has been the notion that you can impose Western concepts and values on these people and they will be fully accepting of such. When they do not act in the way we expect we cannot understand why. You say rightly so <<which is why the US is pursuing political reform in Iraq to be more inclusive of Sunnis>> When did they wake up to that one? Following the last Iraqi War the US was warned about the consequences of failing to include Sunni's and other minorities in any power sharing arrangements, which would lead to civil war in the country, which it has.
Given our past track record of getting it wrong, why are you so confident we have got it right this time? Or is it simply blind faith in Abbott.

P&P,

While I acknowledge the problems in the region, I do not agree with you that all Arabs are irredeemable savages unable to appreciate the benefits of democracy.

While Iraq is a mess due to sectarian squabbles, a similar even worse mess is evident in Syria, where the dictator was not removed by the US, and so the glib assumption by the greens that Iraq would have been better off under Saddam (who gassed thousands summarily executed similar numbers and started wars that killed millions.) is on shaky ground.

Finally the point of the airstrikes is not to target every ISIL lunatic, rather to weaken its forces firstly to the point where it is no longer strong enough to launch successful attacks, then to the point where it is unable to mount a defense sufficient to repel the Iraqi armed forces, exactly along the same lines as the strategy that enabled ragtag rebels in Libya to defeat the well armed army of Gaddafi.

Shadow, We have never said << that all Arabs are irredeemable savages unable to appreciate the benefits of democracy.>> by saying <<impose Western concepts and values>> you are taking an elitist view, as to what was meant. I would consider that people other than those of European origin could have values, although different to ours, which are equal to or superior to ours. There is every possibility that is the case with people in the Middle East.
There never was a claim by The Greens that Iraq would have been better off under Saddam Hussein, what we did question was the price paid by all sides to remove the tyrant, most of all the price paid by the Iraqi people. I referred to George W Bush's infamous "Mission Accomplished in Iraq" speech May 1st 2003. Given the state of Iraq today, some 11 years later, and the priced paid, it does beg the question was it worth it? I'll leave that for you to answer.
This new war has every possibility of extracting a very high price without achieving very much at all. Would you support the deployment of ground troops again if it was deemed necessary, by the likes of Abbott?

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/09/us-could-deploy-ground-forces-isil-fight-201491752135174676.html

Paul,

Turkey is the only Arab country that seems to be stable and prosperous, mostly because it has adopted the need for a secular democratic state pretty much along the lines of what the US was trying to establish in Iraq. The problems are not due to "values" as much as sectarian loyalties dating back centuries. If those within ISIL have values equal or better than ours then they are hiding them very well.

As for the outcome in Iraq, I would recommend you look at Syria, the direct analogue of Iraq without external intervention and compare the outcomes.

As for boots on the ground, you are asking me to make a sweeping judgement on a future scenario which is extremely unlikely. A surgical strike to rescue hostages might be one scenario, but general I don't see it happening.

Similarly would you support Milne if she requested amnesty for those Australians involved in the beheading of hostages

Shadow, to answer;

<<If those within ISIL have values equal or better than ours then they are hiding them very well.>> Totally agree, there is no nutter like a religious nutter. As my old man used to say; "Son, there is nothing worse than a bloke who thinks god is on his side...in his eyes, he can do no wrong."

<<Similarly would you support Milne if she requested amnesty for those Australians involved in the beheading of hostages>> In a word, NO!

As for troops on the ground, at the end of the day that will be a military recommendation, followed by a political decision.

Was talking to a couple of Muslim people on the weekend. Like most of us they are totally disgusted with the actions of these crazy's. Their sympathy is with the ordinary people in the Middle East, not the radicals. I suppose we should be thankful that its Barack Obama and not George W Bush making those political decisions this time round.