Muslim haters are so eager to uncover a plot. Well let me spoil the party - there isn't an Islamic plot to take over the schools. These schools were neglected by the government and the teachers hated the children and being there. They gave a minimal level of input. Finally, the community took the matter in their own hands and raised standards. Strange how one fake letter has drawn the Neo con wrath. The school system is designed to control young peoples minds,and turn them into useful tools for those doing the controlling,or did any of us really believe it was designed for education ?

So, a former head of MI6 says everything is being blown out of proportion regarding British jihadists, but the school inspectorate says it's a major, orchestrated problem. Who's right? These schools are the way forwards. They are within Islamic communities, they have rights.Nobody moans about Jewish schools which are run on strict Jewish lines.Or is that different?

The horse in question, it is alleged, contained Muslim extremism – brought to state schools by stealth, by governor bodies launching subtle pincer movements, to remove the kind of pesky teachers who might object to the segregation of pupils by sex, or a refusal to stick to the syllabus. How incredibly extremist. Schools where segregation of pupils by sex occur. How different from boy's only Grammar schools and High schools for Girls that exist in predominately Conservative areas. And that exist predominately in the private school sector. It does though surely produce better exam results, as pupils are less influenced by the idea of 'girl's subjects' and 'boy's subjects', and are less likely to be distracted by sex. Allegations of an Islamic takeover plot of Birmingham schools are just the latest in a string of slurs against Muslims. It is not clear what is meant by an "Islamic plot takeover", and whether that is the same thing as saying or hinting that some Muslims might want to get some schools to adopt their particular version of Islamic religious values, behaviours and life-styles.
IA
http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

...Nobody moans about Jewish schools which are run on strict Jewish lines.Or is that different?

Very different indeed.

One, they don't publicly degrade their women folk the way Muslims do, and Two, they don't promote the likes of beheading.

Do what they like in their country, but this is not their country to change, this is Australia. It's what it is, they can either accept it, or leave.

Now if my view is seen by you as racist, then I'm extremely proud to be a racist Aussie because my aim to to maintain our peace loving ways and as long as any person/group resects us for what we are, and contributes, I welcome them with open arms.

I wonder how much of the initial Birmingham school problem was caused by indoctrination of pre-school children by their parents and their religious leaders. Every child in a public school's catchment area should be able to attend a school that has a standardised curriculum, relatively free of the teachers' own biases, and which is able to guarantee each child's freedom from victimisation by other students, by teachers and by people allowed into the school environment.

A child in a school should not be treated as a Christian child, or a Hindu child, or a Muslim child. Each child is a child who is there to be taught factual matters and taught how to look for evidence and how to analyse any evidence found or presented to him or her.

Any parent or citizen's role should be limited to contributions which assist the achievement of the goals stated in the previous paragraph and nothing else; certainly not anything that tries to establish that one child is superior because of his or her cultural or religious background.

When I went to school the primary school students were often seated according to evidenced ability. I hope that was so the teacher knew which students needed extra help. Luckily, except for grammar and Year-7 Algebra, I didn't need much extra help.

'A child in a school should not be treated as a Christian child, or a Hindu child, or a Muslim child '

no I suppose Foyle they should be treated as a godless child bereft of any place to get morals from except their high priests like Singer and Dawkins. By the age of about ten they are indocrinated with enough godless dogmas and start to display the fruit. Anything goes eh! No wonder the private schools are full and growing.

runner,
Kids don't get their morals from religious morons ? They get them from experience as they grow. Religion actually prevents them from becoming relistic enogh to develop morals.
Religion has no place in someone not of adult age when they can make up their own mind. Anything else is child abuse.

Everything a child needs for life he/she has learned by the age of three. Education only teaches them the disciplines of employment.

Iftikhar,

As forecast in another thread, you are definitely in with a shot with the self-loathing Left, feminists, ardent atheists and political 'Progressives'. As some proof of that, the posters who usually rise in unison to stridently denounce Christian religion, religion in schools, school chaplains and so on are not here to criticise your proposals. Strange that is, NOT!

Although you would already know that and it should give you a measure of comfort.

For interest, I am not a religious person. It is freedom of speech that is most important to me and hence my concern.

Dear Iftikar,

Initially - I wasn't going to respond to this
discussion of yours because we've covered this
ground many times in the past. You've been
told by so many people, including Foyle in this
discussion, that if you want religious
instruction for Muslim children - it's up to
their parents to send the children to Muslim
schools. State schools do not provide the specialised
education that you are suggesting.

It is wise to remember that
what counts in education is attitudes expressed in skills.
The attitudes that count are known.
As one teacher put it:

"I already know what a child needs. I know it by heart.
He needs to be accepted, respected, liked, and trusted:
encouraged, supported, activated, and amused: able to
explore, experiment, and achieve. Damn it! He needs too
much. All I lack is Solomon's wisdom, Freud's insight,
Einstein's knowledge, and Florence Nightingale's
dedication."

In theory, we already know what good education is.
We have all the concepts. Unfortunately, one
cannot educate children on conceptions alone.
Children present problems which do not disappear,
even when the teacher believes in democracy, love,
respect, accepatance, individual differences, and
personal uniqueness.

Though magnificent, these concepts are too abstract
and too large. They're like a thousand-dollar bill -
good currency but uselss in meeting mundane needs
such as buying a cup of coffee, taking a cab, or
making a phone call.

For daily life - one needs coins. For classroom commerce,
teachers need psychological small change. They need
specific skills for dealing effectively and humanely
with minute-to-minute happenings - the small
irritations, the daily conflicts, the sudden crises.

All these situations call for helpful and realistic
reactions. A teacher's response has crucial consequences.
It affects the child's conduct and
character for better or for worse.

These are facts of emotional life. which make teaching and
learning possible or impossible.

If Muslim children are to survive successfully - they need
to go to State Schools - and get a broader education.
You should be more concerned about a broader perspective
for Muslim children than the one you are currently
pursuing.

'Kids don't get their morals from religious morons ? '

Individual

certainly appears you missed out on any sort of manners or the ability to think to much.

Foxy, "If Muslim children are to survive successfully - they need to go to State Schools - and get a broader education. You should be more concerned about a broader perspective for Muslim children than the one you are currently pursuing"

Yes, well put.

To my way of thinking it doesn't necessarily have to be State run schools however the curriculum should be the same with similar, adequate weighting.

Indigenous children have suffered disadvantage through not receiving the benefits including social interaction of normal ie mainstream schooling.

Iftikhar>>Nobody moans about Jewish schools which are run on strict Jewish lines.
Muslim haters are so eager to uncover a plot. Well let me spoil the party - there isn't an Islamic plot to take over the schools.<<

Let’s keep with the theme but broaden the base. The issue is that with twice the birth rate of the Anglo one third of the population of Birmingham is now Muslim, so you lot are now big enough to work towards expelling the remaining inhabitants and taking the public school system away is one way of excluding Anglo families from populating that district.

Ifti the Jews pay for their own schools..... you are talking about Birmingham public schools, why don’t you Muslims put your hands in your own pockets to fund Muslim only schools like the Jews?.....I have observed the more zealous a Muslim you are the less likely the chance of having a job..........procreation is no problem though given the birth rate of Muslims in Birmingham is double the Anglo’s.

Ifti I have never railed against a colour, nation, creed, or sexual persuasion, but I have made people hating Muslim zealots an exception.

certainly appears you missed out on any sort of manners or the ability to think to muchrunner,
Give us a break paleeze ! right now I have a bureaucrat trying to shaft several people big time & he is a churchie. Countless religious morons have been exposed as paedophiles, religious people brainwashed countless kids & ruined their lives. So what's your legacy ? Protecting those hypocritical mongrels ? A child is totally incapable of the concept of religion. All it knows is to fear something for no reason. As I said keep that child abuse that is religion away from kids until at adult age they can chose for themselves.
I put it to you that I can muster more manners & decency than you can ever imagine because I am not a hypocrite who preys on the vulnerable.

Indiscipline, incivility, binge drinking, drug addiction, gun and knife crimes, teenage pregnancies and abortion are part and parcel of British schooling. These are the reasons why majority of Muslim parents would like to send their children to Muslim schools with Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. Only less than 5% attend Muslim schools and more than 95% keep on attending state and church schools to be mis-educated and de-educated by non-Muslim monolingual teachers.

British schooling and the British society is the home of institutional racism. The result is that Muslim children are unable to develop self-confidence and self-esteem, therefore, majority of them leaves schools with low grades. Racism is deeply rooted in British society. British schools are not doing enough to tackle racism and promote race relations. Many teachers are unaware of racist attitudes amongst pupils. Schools have a responsibility not only to deal with racist incidents but also to prepare pupils for life in a multicultural and multiracial society. At least one racist incident is reported daily in Bolton schools, according to stats obtained from Bolton Council by Manchurian Matters.

Speaking English does not promote integration into British, American and Australian societies, and broaden opportunities. English speaking Muslim youths are angry, frustrated and extremist, thanks to state schools with monolingual non-Muslim teachers and English language. English language is not only a lingua franca but also lingua frankensteinia. Human right are also covers linguistic right. Cultural and linguistic genocide are very common. British schooling is murdering community languages like Arabic, Urdu and others. English is today the world killer language. Linguistic genocide is a crime against humanity and British schooling is guilty of committing this crime.

Iftikhar,

"Speaking English does not promote integration into British, American and Australian societies, and broaden opportunities. English speaking Muslim youths are angry, frustrated and extremist, thanks to state schools with monolingual non-Muslim teachers and English language. English language is not only a lingua franca but also lingua frankensteinia. Human right are also covers linguistic right. Cultural and linguistic genocide are very common. British schooling is murdering community languages like Arabic, Urdu and others. English is today the world killer language. Linguistic genocide is a crime against humanity and British schooling is guilty of committing this crime."

ROTFL!!

the only ones I would be protecting individual is from kids with such idoitic views as your own. You are living proof of the failure of the hopelessly flawed secular model. You are a great moraliser yet have no basis for your moral beliefs.

no basis for your moral beliefs.
runner,
Wanna bet ? I'd out-do you in that field in a second flat. It's you religious who are ruining everything with your hipocrisy.

On the one hand we get told we are not integrating enough and we should engage more in civic society. On the other, when we do, we get accused of having sinister agendas. Since when do concerns by religiously conservative parents about teaching on homosexuality, girls and boys mixing, and the reciting of prayers, require anti-terrorist experts to get involved? Allegations of an Islamic takeover plot in Birmingham schools aren't justified by the evidence – and the government response is way out of proportion. Perhaps its best to let the Muslim community sort these issues out. These are in effect Muslim schools now. It is up to the Muslim community to see off hard liners (if there are any) otherwise it is their own children's' education that will suffer. I think it would be very difficult for non Muslims to get involved either as governors or management so perhaps that it is one of the reasons for the conflicts that have arisen. It may be best for the Government to but out providing the record of the school is O.K. from an exam point of view. I am so disgusted that even after it was proved there is no factual evidence or basis for that racist and hate filled document, schools in Birmingham are being subjected to this horrific ordeal and the name of many good reputable teachers is being tarnished... Why? Clearly viewable that this accusation has been purposely placed on these schools which surprisingly consists of majority Muslim children. Clearly the school policies are being contradicted by Mr Gove as they clearly state that it is the schools priority and job to meet the needs of the local community and of the students within the school. So if a school is doing that then what is the issue? What is happening feels like the persecution of a religious group.

Iftikhar>> What is happening feels like the persecution of a religious group.<<

Well you Muslims would know all about that brother.

If you want to see more Iftikhars -- support multiculturalism.

Dear SPQR,

On what do you blame your own bias?
Can't you see that attitudes such as
yours don't really help the situation.
Prejudice creates what it fears - and
biases simply reinforce each other in
the community. What we need is education
and less fear-mongering to able to live at ease
with each other. Iftikar has to be made
to realise that people are not against
him and his children. While he cries
persecution" it has to be explained that
it's not "persecution," but that state schools
do not provide the specialist education he's
after - he needs to send his children to
Muslim schools. However, it would be better for
the children to get a broader education if they
are to fit into the broader society.
Religious teaching can be done privately.

Iftikar has to realize that while he adheres to a religio/political system that advocates death for unbelievers and world domination then he is going to be an outsider where his particular brand of religion is in a minority.

Foxy ,

I am pointing out the reality. Iftikar is NOT an aberration he is very much mainstream Islam --ASK HIM IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME

HEY IFY OLD CHAP, ARE YOU PART OF SOME EXTREME FRINGE GROUP --OR MAINSTREAM ISLAM?

It is you, Foxy, who is pre-programmed . You only want to see Islam as made from sugar and spice and everything nice -- it aint so.

http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2014/02/13/what-normal-muslims-think-the-video-that-should-horrify-you/

mainstream Islam. Sorry for reposting but the denials continue to flow.

Dear SPQR,

I know that you have a good heart and your
concern is real. As is from the other posters
on this forum. Forgive me - but I can only
be true to myself (and my own religion).
If I see things through "rose-coloured" glasses
well, that's the way I've been raised.
I basically believe that most people are good and
decent and that our influence on others in our
society should be for the good. Which of course
does not mean that we can't be critical of
things - we can. But we should not condemn everyone
belonging to any particular group.
Anyway, I really have nothing further to say.
I know I don't have all the answers for this very
complex situation.

A rather stupid post, Iftikhar, because the issue is amply discussed online. May I quote official reports and articles:

A damning report into extremist infiltration of Birmingham schools has uncovered evidence of "coordinated, deliberate and sustained action to introduce an intolerant and aggressive Islamist ethos into some schools in the city".The watchdog inspected 21 schools in the city, concluding that a 'culture of fear and intimidation' has developed in some schools. It concluded there was a deliberate effort by a number of individuals to introduce an 'intolerant and aggressive Islamic ethos' into a number of Birmingham schools.

Miss Paul, a teacher, told how music and dancing were banned as un-Islamic at Park View school, and girls were banned from sex education lessons. Boys and girls were forced to sit apart in lessons and were told off if they stood too close together.
As a female teacher, she was was banned from entering male-led sex education classes, in which she claims boys were told on one occasion that their wives were ‘not allowed’ to refuse them sex. At a prom for the sixth-form students, all Western music and dancing was forbidden, she says.

The extreme Islamic agenda pervaded all aspects of the school, with the current headteacher once deciding to give a lesson in Sharia law in what should have been a maths class, she claims. Pupils at the school became so brainwashed to believe that all non-Muslims were going to hell, she added, that they would tell Miss Paul – who is not religious but of mixed Sikh and Hindu parentage –‘You’re going to Hell.’

The fact is that everywhere Islam and Muslims go, hate and violence follow. The immigration of Muslims to the West has been a social, economic and soon to be criminal disaster. BTW, here is a detailed report:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Trojan_Horse

So, Iftikhar, why don’t Muslims just go back to Islamic societies, where peace, justice and love reign supreme under Islam and they can enjoy their Islamic values. HAHAHAH --that’s a joke!

Of course, life is so much better among the “lower than animal” infidels, because…

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/views/news/middle-east/2014/08/16/What-is-the-greatest-global-threat-to-Muslims-.html

Foxy,

"....Anyway, I really have nothing further to say.
I know I don't have all the answers for this very
complex situation."

You have shewn that for some time.

Dear Is Mise,

Thank You for the compliment.
You've made me feel so much better.

However, you will be pleased to know that
"I have never had to face anything that
could overwhelm the native optimism and
stubborn perseverance I was blessed with."

You're a laugh a minute, runner...

"the only ones I would be protecting individual is from kids with such idoitic views as your own. You are living proof of the failure of the hopelessly flawed secular model. You are a great moraliser yet have no basis for your moral beliefs"

Coming from one of the nastiest, pickiest "moralisers" on this forum.

Where did you learn your manners?...because there's seldom any in evidence in your posts.

Poirot

' Coming from one of the nastiest, pickiest "moralisers" on this forum.'

obviously never looked in the mirror Poirot. It is very easy to tell when you are losing the arguement.

I second those thoughts Poirot.
I can't remember the last time I read anything positive on your posts Runner.
A Trojan Horse indeed...

one thing u can be sure of. If the sisterhood don't like u that u r on the right tract. I would be a lot more concerned if I had their endorsement. I only have to look at the pathetic show they tried to defend in the last Government. Now they spew their hate out with Abbottphobia after defending the indefensible. Pathetic.

Foxy...Poirot...Suzy...it is a year sice Lexi's last post...you girls must miss her support.

Are you joking SOG ?

Foxy is Lexi!

Just the same as Poirot is really Arjay
And Suzie is OUG

Goodness I thought everyone knew that!

Sonofgloin,

SPQR..."Are you joking SOG ?

Foxy is Lexi!"

She is indeed!

However, I'm not Arjay - I'm Julia Gillard : )

Just ask runner and he'll tell you about my Abottottottottophobia!

(I reckon I deserve to have a phobia after what he did to me!)

(I reckon I deserve to have a phobia after what he did to me!)
Poirot,
Were you too butch for him, did he knock you back ? :-)

kactuz,thanks for the links. Everything you say is factual....sadly.

Iftki has every right to expound whatever he/she likes, but debate is not on the agenda for Iftki and that is the difference between Muslim culture and First World culture....and something that some pro Muslim contributors either do not believe or understand.

Muslims take the right of our freedom of expression and right to religious practice but would deny it to ALL the moment they control the State.

"Suze is OUG".
Lol!
OUG would surely be most upset if he thought you believed that.

Runner would be upset too, because then he wouldn't be able to lump me in with his hated 'sisterhood'.....

Runner, are you then labelled as belonging to a 'misterhood'?
Or will we just simplify things and pop you in with your beloved holy Abbott, and label you as a misogynist?

It is easy to say" Go back to where you came from", but do not forget that British Muslims are actually born and educated here. They are in the unenviable position of trying to combine two different worlds. That is no easy. We do not want to change you lot but we would like to see our children getting balanced Islamic education along with National Curriculum. We would like our children to learn and be well versed in standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time we would like our children to learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village.Bilingualism is an asset but British schooling regards it as a problem.

We live in a shrunken world and millions of people are on the move; one of our biggest challenges is how we learn to live in proximity to difference – different skin colours, different beliefs and different way of life. According to a study by COMPASS, Muslims born and educated were given the impression of outsiders. The perception among Muslims is that they are unwelcome in Britain is undermining efforts to help them integrate into wider society.

It is often quoted by the Western media that Muslim schools ghettoizes the children, and even lead to their radicalisation if they are not integrated. There is no evidence that faith schools lead to a “ghettoized education system.

A report by the Institute for Community Cohesion found that native parents were deserting some schools after finding their children out numbered by pupils from ethnic minorities. Schools in parts of England are becoming increasingly segregated. The study focused on 13 local authorities. Many of the schools and colleges are segregated and this was generally worsening over recent years. This is RACISM because British society is the home of institutional racism.
IA
http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

None of 9/11 and 7/7 potential terrorists were ever educated in Muslim schools in UK or in Pakistan.It is absurd to believe that Muslim schools, Imams and Masajid teach Muslim children anti-Semitic, homophobic and anti-western views. It is dangerously deceptive and misleading to address text books and discuss them out of their historical, cultural and linguistic context.It is not wrong to teach children that anti-social behaviour, drinking, drugs, homosexuality, sex before marriage, teenage pregnancies and abortions are western values and Islam is against all such sins.

A true Muslim believes in Prophet Moses and the Prophet Jesus and without them one cannot be a Muslim. My suggestion is that in all state, independent and Christian based school special attention should be given to the teaching of Comparative Religion and Islam should be taught by qualified Muslim Teachers to make the children aware the closeness of Islam to Christianity and Judaism which will help them to think about Islam, as “A Pragmatic and Modern Way of Life,” during their life time.

Prince Charles, while visiting the first grant maintained Muslim school in north London, said that the pupils would be the future ambassadors of IslThe Muslim community has been passing through a phase of fourth Crusades. The battleground is the field of education, where the young generation will be educated properly with the Holly Quran in one hand and Sciences in other hand to serve the British society and the world at large. A true Muslim is a citizen of the world, which has become a small global village.But what about thousands of others, who attend state schools deemed to be "sink schools"? In education, there should be a choice and at present it is denied to the Muslim community. In the late 80s and early 90s, when I floated the idea of Muslim community schools, I was declared a "school hijacker" by an editorial in the Newham Recorder newspaper in east London. This clearly shows that the British media does not believe in choice and diversity in the field of education and has no respect for those who are different.

It always warms my heart to hear a Muslim talk about choice, diversity and respect. After all, that is what Islam is all about.

Yes, lets let a Muslim teacher teach all children about Islam and its wonders --

and while we are at it, let an infidel lecture Muslim children (with proper references to Islamic documentation, of course) about 1. Mohammad's wars on his neighbors (you know... plunder, torture, murder, rape, burning crops, abuse of women, and enslavement of men women and children), 2. about Allah and his delight in barbaric torture, not to he mention the constant slander against those evil "lower than animal" non-Muslims, and, 3. of course, the eternal Quran, the most perfect book ever, which somehow Muslims just can figure out what it says and are always misinterpreting it (making them kill each other and us), at least according to so-called "moderate" Muslims. Also, we don't want Muslim children to be ignorant of the fact that the sun sets in a muddy field.

Great idea, right? I am sure that Muslim children would learn things they never hear from an Imam or you, and they would be required to look up the references themselves, just to make sure it isn't an infidel trick. This would be great for all people -- to be exposed to both sides of an issue.

After this, we could have a course in the wonders of contemporary islamic societies, and research how the values of Islam have made Muslim countries the most just, peaceful and prosperous.

Okay I'm going way out on a limb, and I don't mean what I'm about to say from a racist point of view. For me, I don't care what colour or religion a person is but I do expect immigrants to learn the language, embrace and assimilate into our culture if they want to live here. Based on the European experience over the last few decades, and given we can still go down a different track if there is political will, I raise this question:

Will the end result of allowing uneducated, un-skilled, unwilling to assimilate, third world Muslim immigrants to permeate through our society/culture be the equivalent of introducing cane toads into our environment?

Cane toads were brought in for a useful purpose, there's a difference.

<<TEAM AUSTRALIA>>

Apparently local Muslim leaders were offended by our PMs reference to <<Team Australia>> and pulled-out of talks. That should speak volumes to any one who wants to hear.

No SPQR. There are a number of Australians offended by the puerile slogans of the Abbott government. Team Australia? Can't the man speak and articulate anything? Can't anybody in this government articulate anything?

But then when I read the comments of people, like OTB for instance, simple slogans and labels are clearly all that the dyed in the wool Liberal voters want. You will slavishly follow. Always voted Liberal, always will. Unthinkingly.

You can say what you will about the 'left', but they are not nearly as easily 'led' or nearly as obedient to 'authority'.

yvonne,

You sure got that wrong, I have never been a member of or supported any political party. However you are into 'splitting' and if someone has a different opinion to you, s/he must be labelled by the tag you deem most offensive. For you that is 'Liberal'. Still, most normal people would believe there are far worse labels.

Didn't Kevin Rudd talk of 'Team Australia' or something very similar?

It is easy to see how Team Australia would be anathema to the leftists though. The lunar Gaia-worshiping Greens favour World Government. Bob Brown proposed himself as the first President. Is Bob still absent playing pirates on the high seas? The political 'Progressives' who have taken over Labor are, as they say themselves, International Socialists in disguise (aka Fabians). So the 'Progressives' aka Fabians aka International Socialists don't like Australia anyhow. As 'useful idiots' they serve another crew of course.

I had not read about it before so I went looking to find out what you were fussing about (re Team Australia). Here you go and what Abbott is talking about would be fair enough for Australians. Although culturally-cringing lefties might regard themselves as serving any country but Australia.

http://www.news.com.au/national/tony-abbott-says-new-migrants-must-be-on-team-australia-as-he-steps-up-war-on-homegrown-jihadists/story-fncynjr2-1227027870342

Yes, OnTheBeach.

Obama said much the same thing here:
<<There's not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America>>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19751-2004Jul27.html

And those on Yvonne's side of the room wet themselves with glee --or was that, whilst watching Glee?

Dear SPQR,

"...Wet themselves with glee?"

Really?

You mean like you do to us all the time.

Peeing on our legs and telling us it's raining.

Lol!

Foxy,

<<Peeing on our legs...>>

This many not be the right forum to discuss your sexual fantasies and fetishes...

Dear SPQR,

You brought up peeing not me.
It seems you're the one with the
fantasies. BTW - peeing to me is not
a "sexual" fantasy - but whatever turns
you on or rocks your boat.

Beach, <<I have never been a member of or supported any political party>> Do you really expect us to believe that. I find many of your posts would sit well with the philosophy of political parties considered to be from the ultra right, For someone who claims not to "support" any political party you seemed to feel threatened by us Greens in particular, and also The Labor Party, along with anyone with a progressive slant. Sure your not Jim Saleam? If not you two would make a good double act!

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2014/08/21/1227031/401741-48174d8e-282f-11e4-a134-cf54b9daa685.jpg

I wonder how many of these characters where *schooled* in the Islamic schools?

and you think the Catholic Paedophile Priest were bad

http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2014/08/19/syrian-girl-forced-into-sex-jihad-by-own-family-where-are-her-voices-of-support-around-the-world/

Iftikhar>> This clearly shows that the British media does not believe in choice and diversity in the field of education and has no respect for those who are different.<<

I note Iftki does not respond directly to posters, the Muslim justs posts a slab of Islamist diatribe about community rights as rebuttal to everything. Propaganda is easy, you just accuse eveyone one else of what you practice.

The "no respect for those who are different" line Iftki bleats on about is the current Islamic mindset........with us or against us.......and no lie, mistruth, or stream of propaganda coming out of the likes of Iftki alters that single truth.

Runner, trying to justify the rock spiders that proliferate in the Catholic and other churches. Look folks how evil others are, therefore by default it makes that actions of the Catholic Kiddy Fiddlers all seem okay. Pathetic attempt at justification, you sound like Archy Peel!
In one way I hope I am wrong about the god crap, and there actually is a Hell, because the Catholic clergy will fill the place to capacity.

Now let’s not lose our heads over this guys, but the Islamist Iftki credits the poor teaching syllabus, substance abuse and the moral breakdown of society in impoverished Birmingham as being the catalyst for allowing Islam run schools.

But Iftki carries the premise that the Islamic model is superior, but the fact is under an Islamic school system sectarian violence among Muslims has been raging from the first century of Islam to the present day. How many Sunni died TODAY because they are Sunni? ......thousands How many Shia died TODAY because they are Shia. ......thousands.............and for no other reason than the difference of a sectarian name. I do not buy Iftki’s mantra of deception.

sonofgloin,

Well said.

Paul1405,

'Runner, trying to justify the rock spiders that proliferate in the Catholic and other churches.

No Paul you are being deliberately ignorant of the rock spiders in Islam and secularism.

'In one way I hope I am wrong about the god crap, and there actually is a Hell, because the Catholic clergy will fill the place to capacity. '

yep Paul along with all the others that reject the Lord Jesus Christ.

I hate to pop the bubble of illusion but there ain't no Heaven or Hell on the other side. If you are miserable you are already in Hell and if you are experiencing peace and good feelings, welcome to Heaven.

And sorry Istfi, no virgins waiting for you at the Pearly Gates, in fact not even any Gates. Your state of mind at any given point determines if you are in Heaven or Hell. The eternal now, it's always now, so try to enjoy it, it's all you are going to get.

Jesus teaches to LOVE one and other including your enemy and that serves as a much better platform to conduct one's life than to be hating those that don't share your same views on spiritual matters. I'm not a Christian but I do prefer a world of Love over one filled with fear, hate and revenge.

'I hate to pop the bubble of illusion but there ain't no Heaven or Hell on the other side. '

ConservativeHippie,

why bother quoting Jesus. You make Him out to be a liar with your denial. Sorry I think he is a much more reliable source than you.

Runner - That's no surprise;

I didn't realise I had quoted Jesus, in fact I didn't. If you understood the deeper message he was teaching you would come to realise the Kingdom of Heaven is within (as is Hell).

As I already stated - I'm not a Christian but I do prefer a world of Love over one filled with fear, hate and revenge. Basically we are on the same side, just taking different paths toward the end.

Runner, with all the venom you post on this forum about others, you do not appear to be very Christian. Like so many, are you a selective Christian, selecting those sections that suit, while disregarding the uncomfortable bits.
Are you actually a member of a Christian Church? I do not recognise one that would espouse your principles. Then again there is something like 41,000 Christian denominations at last count, all claiming their's is the one and only true faith. I am sure with such a large number there must be one that would accommodate your "version" of Christianity. Number 39327 on the list could be it, 'The Wayout Loony Loopy Church' of Sasafras Falls Nebraska has very much your philosophical view of things

I printed this on another thread but it also has relevance here:

Ify shows himself to be the typical product of a Muslim education:

He knows about everyone else's crimes:
<<“The Americans and the rest of the Western world are yada yada yadas …>>

But not a thing about the much greater crimes of Islam:
<<When we defend our selves they shout we are fundamentalists, terrorists, jihadists and savages …>>

And to an extent you can't blame him because every time someone exposes the seamier side of Islam some Greeny–Lefty jumps in to defect the conversation and blame.

Take a bow Foxy
Take a bow Paul 1405
Take a bow Suze

Because you have all contributed to Ify's (and many millions of others like him) self-righteous ignorance.

Iftikhar – Bad timing for your topic. Now the Rotherham sex scandal has broken, just after the Trojan Horse and Grooming scandals. As always, the authorities (spitting in disgust) ignore the abused and broken bodies of children because of political correctness. As usual, these criminals are Muslims, doing what they are taught in the Quran and hadith.

Do you have anything to say? Do you have an ounce of decency? Will you and other Muslims always put the so-called “honor” of Islam and Mohammad above that is right and moral?

You know that your dear prophet took an 8-year old girl to his bed, calling her in when she was playing with dolls – at least that is what the hadith say in multiple sources.

As usual, the papers blame the police and council, not the “Asian” men who did this. Nobody will be punished, just like in the case of the schools at Birmingham.

As usual, on queue, Muslims are “outraged”. Yes, everytime things like this come out, Muslims condemn somethig, whatever -- and then it happens again and again.

Quote: Children as young as 11 in the Yorkshire town of Rotherham were raped by multiple perpetrators, abducted, trafficked to other cities in England, beaten and intimidated, by groups of mainly Asian (Muslim!) men from 1997 to 2013, a troubling new report claims. The inquiry team found examples of "children who had been doused in petrol and threatened with being set alight, threatened with guns, made to witness brutally violent rapes and threatened they would be next if they told anyone." Alexis Jay, who wrote the latest report, said: "It is hard to describe the appalling nature of the abuse that child victims suffered." The report pinned the blame on the leadership of South Yorkshire Police and Rotherham council.
http://rt.com/uk/183104-rotherham-sexual-abuse-children/
Another quote: Members of Britain's Pakistani community reacted with outrage Wednesday amid reports that officials failed to act on sex abuse cases because of concerns about racism in the northern English town of Rotherham.

Actually, girls as young as 8 were abused -- Aisha's age, by the way.

It is unusual and a big concern that the Government officials and law enforcement are avoiding utilizing their lawful positions in preventing terrorist style crimes and being caught red handed. It is as though they are placing Muslims above the law when they should be treating them as the murders etc they are.While they slowly destroy communities where they should never have been allowed, with no resistance at all. Really what would be the racist part that is putting the wind up them deeming them incompetent. He is or they are Pakistan, Muslim or Asian. There, nationality and race. Thats too simple, is it the possibility of being accused of racism by actually arresting the perp . They are people with morals we do not approve of, they committed many horrific crimes against innocent citizens and are a further threat. Cuff them and take them away as you would. Engaging in terrorist acts against innocents to such a large degree, like it or not they will go through the 'lawful' procedures and be served with the appropriate sentence. These lawless extremists have to realize despite their delusions of grandeur, threats and acts of terrorism in civilized nations will not be tolerated. Governments have to ensure the safety and confidence of their own people.