The cheaper of the two options would be the carbon tax. Our govt: is wanting to spend 2.5 billion on direct action. Is this the way to go.

Abbott's Alan Jones script has just been destroyed

Tristan Edis
23 min ago
1

The government’s hand-picked economic modeller to evaluate the impact of the Renewable Energy Target, ACIL-Allen, has found that a wind-back of the scheme’s target would end up costing electricity consumers money, to the benefit largely of fossil fuel suppliers and generators.

This is even though the modeller was instructed by the government to attribute no monetary value whatsoever to carbon emissions.

Also, the modelling suggests that the renewable energy industry should be able to meet the current level of the target without a blowout in the cost of renewable energy certificates to the price cap.

This result is contrary to the intuition dominating the Coalition backbench but entirely consistent with the findings of several other major Australian energy market modelling analysts – including ROAM Consulting, Sinclair Knight Merz, Intelligent Energy Systems, Schneider Electric and Bloomberg New Energy Finance.

Each of these analysts have independently has come to the same conclusion that while there is an extra cost to consumers to subsidise the roughly 20 per cent of their power coming from renewables (additional to levels in 1997), this is more than offset by the extra renewables supply squeezing down prices for the remaining 80 per cent of supply coming from conventional generators.

According to ACIL Allen’s draft findings – presented yesterday to stakeholders and tweeted by Michael Mazengarb (the government has refused to publicly release the presentation) – the nationally average wholesale price of electricity generation is suppressed by around $15 per megawatt-hour as a result of the RET, relative to no scheme at all.

Household consumers consequently end up a net $232 better off by 2030 as a result of the RET, according to ACIL Allen’s draft findings.

The modeller also examined the electricity bill impact of different alternative targets for the RET over time compared to no target at all, which are detailed in the chart below.

Overall the results suggest that the higher the target the greater the savings to consumers across the period to 2030. Increasing the target such that renewables had 30 per cent share by 2030 (equates to 53,000 gigawatt-hours by 2030) works out the best for household consumers.

Freezing the target at the current level of renewable energy supply would keep costs low in the short-term but leave consumers worse off over the longer term, because it means renewables would have little suppressive impact on wholesale electricity market prices.

Annual impact on average household electricity bill of RET under different targets

Graph for Abbott's Alan Jones script has just been destroyed

Source: ACIL Allen draft findings presented to stakeholders on 23 June 2014, obtained via tweets from Michael Mazengarb

Indeed, this freeze scenario probably underestimates the cost to consumers because ACIL has assumed a cost to compensate owners of existing renewables of $40 per renewable energy certificate or LGC.

Many of these projects would have been financed on the basis of a much higher certificate value, especially given the abolition of the carbon price, and so costs to compensate would be higher.

both systems are likely to have zero affect on climate and fill the pockets of charlatons. Some people never learn. Gore, Flannery and others have already filled their pockets on junks science and dud predictions.

runner>>both systems are likely to have zero affect on climate and fill the pockets of charlatons. Some people never learn. Gore, Flannery and others have already filled their pockets on junks science and dud predictions.<<

That sums it up.....

The whole thing in my view is arse about as any impost to business simply gets passed on.

If there is to be a tax on carbon, it should be the user who pays the tax, because their immediate reaction to increased bills would be to cut their consumption, which then cuts the generation which in turn reduces emissions.

The currect carbon tax is simply a permit to pollute and as rightly stated achieve nothing in the fight against climate change.

The generators can not pass on the carbon tax. The wholesale system does not allow anything except electricity to be charged.

The wholesale of electricity is bought through the asx by bidding, and there is nothing to say you have to add 9% on top of your bid.

So that means the generators pay the 9% themselves.

So in fact the carbon tax does not exist in your electricity bill.

The wholesale price of electricity today is 4.8 cents / kWh.

So guess how much you are getting ripped off.

The retailer gets the rest, less costs.

‘morning 579,

I’m utterly shocked by your revelations.

Surely this cannot be right? You mean that the companies that have been making profits from public subsidies and double dipping by charging us a premium for renewable energy, are now in financial strife and are opposing the removal of their cash cows?

On top of that they want to charge consumers for the privilege of helping them out of the financial disaster they got themselves (and us) into.

It beggars belief that such Australian companies would follow the same fate as the rest of the worlds “big end of town” profiteer’s?

The CCX collapsed in December 2010, by November 2012, Barclays US Carbon trading Desk closed, the UN, EU and NZ markets were trading at just off their all time lows at A$5.60, EU, UN backed credits A$8.45 and NZ trading A$4.10. By January 2013 these markets had collapsed a further 40% with NZ trading at just US$ 2.00.

RENIXX is the key international stock market index for renewables and tracks the worlds top 30 largest renewable energy companies based in the USA, EU and China. This market is down 90 percent since 2007.

In the USA alone eight of their largest subsidized renewable energy manufacturers have filed for bankruptcy between 2007 and 2012. Beacon Power Corp, Ener1, Evergreen Solar, Solyndra, SpectraWatt, Babcock and Brown, Mountain Plaza Inc and Solar Millennium. The cost to the US taxpayer is U$ 3.9 Billion.

A further six subsidized green energy companies are in default or in decline at a cost to the US taxpayer of U$ 6 Billion. The wind industry in the USA, the largest in the world, is predicted to lose 70 to 90 percent of its orders. Investors predict its total demise.

As at March 28 2013, “CHINA'S Suntech reached its zenith as the world's largest solar panel producer, but has plunged to the nadir of bankruptcy in just a year, highlighting the woes of the industry it shaped”.

Keep up the good work 579, try to take a day out at Dreamworld.

The system of shareholders is what's driving up costs. Just look at Telstra, more cost, poorer service.
More public servants poorer public service. When most of your resources go into propping up ineffectual sytems then the taxpayer loses.
The Carbon Tax does nothing except fill selected pockets, the owners of which don't give the environment a second thought, especially when the effects aren't going to be felt for hundreds of years yet. The effects we experience now are from the past hundred years ago, not what we do now.
What has been done with the money we saved from sacking Tim Flannery from his $180,000.- a year climate change position & those of his co-cons.
I bet it hasn't gone to help to those who need help.
There have to be some ALP supporting bureaucrats who know exactly what's going on. Foxy just has to have one of her links & 579 et al would have to have some info as to what happened to those savings. Surely Tony Abbott misappropriated it somehow.

The Greens are demonstrating they are still prisoners of immature ideological purity in their refusal to pass the increase in the petrol excise.

The Greens should be falling over themselves to reinstate inflation-adjusted increases in petrol excise. It will help (although only mildly) to discourage carbon emissions and other pollutants, and it provides revenue that is important to funding government services.

But the Greens argue that they won’t be passing the measure because the revenue is going to be hypothecated to funding roads and they want it dedicated to public transport.

Actually, this hypothecation is an accounting sleight of hand, a piece of fancy packaging by the Liberal Party to fool the electorate into accepting what is a revenue raising measure, not a road funding measure. Problem is that it appears to have fooled the Greens, too.

Nothing Abbott and co has ever said, is what we are led to believe,
what a pack of lying, scumbags.

Here in Australia we have one of the most pro radical leaders the Liberal Party has ever had in Tony bulony prominently arguing that government needs to act to constrain carbon emissions, and a carbon price would be the most sensible approach.

Andrew Bolt and Alan Jones may hold sway, but they aren’t the Liberal Party.

what a pack of lying, scumbags.
579,
As per usual you got that back to front again and you can add vindictive.

There has been such a tremendous take up of domestic solar and the price has come down so much that a new movement to go "off grid" is starting.
This will take a lot of the profits from the power company and could in time make it a loss maker.
This would be poetic justice if it does.
The Government would be to blame because they have been using power companies as cash cows and selling them off in their race to "privatise" them.
Battery technology is improving all the time making it cheaper to install.
It also means that that there are not so many blackouts due to extreme weather events.
The main group to suffer under this regime will be the commercial companies who will find it harder to install sufficient solar.
There is a case now for companies to install cogeneration and this is being done in Europe.
Why governments have not realized that this was where they were steering the power industry must be because in the main politicians are not too bright.

Solar is taking over, and causing big inroads into the profits of the coal fired generators.

That is why the push from Abbott to scrap the carbon tax because it can not be passed on to the consumer. The coal generators carry the full baggage.

Because coal fired generators can not be switched off they have to keep feeding the boilers 24 hours a day.

Solar and wind are putting electricity into the grid unhindered.

Now that all grids are linked, except WA & NT The wind is always blowing somewhere.

The liberal camp have had special ordiance by the generators, to take off the carbon tax.

If that occurs Abbott wants to pay the coal generators to capture carbon from the taxpayers purse. It will be a default subsidy.

The current wholsale price for a kWh of power is 4.8 cents.
How much are you being ripped off.

The other suggestion from the coal generators was to remove the wholsale bying of power away from the AXS and have a set price.
You could imagine what would happen to the wholsale price of power if that was the case.

Over the last 20 Years the wholsale price of power has only slightly increased.

Abbott wants to give them more scope to charge more for electricity.

Battery technology is improving all the time making it cheaper to install.
Robert LePage,
At this stage Green technology equipment is extremely polluting to manufacture but I suppose it won't be all that long before it comes down to the levels of conventional energy production.

Although they may not be able to directly pass on the tax, it still eats in to their cash flow. If it comes out of one pocket, they will take it from another to fill the void.

This then effects many other areas such as investment, expansion and staffing, all of which has a negative effect on jobs.

The tax was flawed from the start and has reaped billions out of our economy and made no noticeable difference to climate change as it doesn't matter where you burn fossil fuels because the earths climate is shared by all.

indy<<..The wind..is always blowing=;..somewhere.>>

yep/so..whats/with..wIND/NEEDing\to-be..constantly..MOVING..'ITS/BITS'[WHETHER the wind bLOWS OR NOT[SO THE BIG THING=wHEN..ITS ON/HERE..ITS OFF THERE;..meaning..THEY MUST ACCESS POWER 24/7..[wind/or]no wind...dTAWIN/OR\GEnerate/never..'off'[THEY SEIZE-UP]

i aLSO RECALL/WIND/WAS PAD..TO NOT LOAD ONTO THE/grid[BILLIONS/COMPENSATION..gee/now we aRE AT THE WHIM/OF COULD AND WIND[WIND-IT BACK..PLEASE..its all hot air/puff/fluff..AND WIND

you/say..<<>.The liberal camp..have had special ordiance by the generators,>>

I SAY PREVIOUS CARBON CREDITS/ARE GOING TO BYING/THE GENERATION/THEN SHutting them down/via the liberaL CABON ABBAITMENT[WIN/WIN..twice[then when it all falls down..lol..they get begged to fire up the coal..YEP WIN/WIN/WIN

FREE SOLAR SELLthen 55 cents buyvback
great[but eVEN GREATER IF YOU GOT HECTARES OF THE JUNK/PAYING 55 CENTS per kilo what

but whaIT..<<..The current wholsale price
for a kWh of power is 4.8 cents.>>

is that for the nEW[LITTLE GUYS SOLAR-..OR FOR BIG COAL?]\

How much are you being ripped off.

the carbon tax...to BUY <<.the coal generators
<<..to capture carbon>>abbaitment credits..<<>.from the taxpayers purse.>>to shut bIG COAL[BIG TOOBACCO/BIG PETRO/BIG PHARMA/TOO BIg to fail

..<<.. It will be a default subsidy.>>
tripple dippling the public purse

<<..Over the last 20 Years the wholsale price of power
has only slightly increased.>>

and trippled the next 20

<<..Abbott wants to give them more scope to charge more for electricity.>>

and/malcom/has conned clivE\WITH BIG ALL&+*GORE.

FOR/SURE..FOR-Shore

<<.Battery technology..hook/a HEAVEY DUTY BATTERY/TO A voltage reulater/to a timmer..into-of peak..RUN WHOLE HOUSE IN OFf peak/with back up on essential equipment/lights..ETC

JUSt USE OFF PEAK POWER[13 CENTS]

any/extra..batteries dont work[under a grand/to get off the grid]
but heck..IF YA CAN SELL/FOR 55..BUY AT 4..WIN/WIN

<<>.The tax was flawed from the start and has reaped billions>>

EVEN WORSE..its been leveraged/IN BEING LAUNDERD THROUgh the banks
[see fractional-RESERVE LENDING]..GONE..<<.out of our economy>>AND RECYCling arround as bonus/diVEDEND..ON WALL-STREET[NOT MAINSTREET/OR D=/Forbid/SUBERBIA

CHINA-SETTING-UP/ITS\OWN..RATINGS-Agencies..yeah*

nNNnewsouthWHALES..has/approved/SELLING/POWER..for 1 billion[OUT OF THE HUGE/CARBON CREDIT/CASH POOLS..GLOBALLY..[SEE PREVIOUS/POST..

nsw-just sold the powEr generators off..[AND]that carbon credit/money was used..TO ABATE/carbon..AND..THAT\NOW COAL WILL BE shut down..[to get its \/next carbon credit/2\

YOU WILL SOON/WATCH THIS GRAND-SCAM UNWIND
PLEASE NOTE..THE COST OF COAL[BEFORE YOU GUYS BEgan screwing them and shutting theM DOWN..[OR]ENRON-RIG../THE FUTURE CARBON CREDIT..PRICED VAST/MULTIPLES\COAl

THING IS..THEse..CARBONISED-fools..DONT REALISE/WHY THEY ARE GETTING NEAR 11 TIMES THE COal price generated/PRICE..NOR/THAT..when/powER PRICES[hit/parity]..THE EXPECTATION IS/THAT keep\PRICES/KEEP-doubling up the price of coal/and 55 cents buy back will look cheap/once we all paY 110 cents..[THE END/PLAN]

how to say..[nay demand/thEY\..INCLUDE PRICES/FIXED/firm/numbers
not percemtile spin.WHEN THE PRICE PARITY..FINALY SETTLES..]TRIPPLE THE COST TODAY\.

RELitivly speaking..SOLARBENIficients..55 cent buy back/wiLL THEN BEGIN TO FEEL..AS WE WHO GAVE THEM\THeir free lunch feel today

[SURE WAY BACK..IF MY POWER BILLS/WERE the same..COST/AS..THE BUY BACK/FOR A mere/year..ie/free solar cells/20 FOLD RETURNS..over/its expected20/YEAR..LIFE

[THEN WATT?

i too..[as a huge user abuser/POWeR USERLIKE/YOU
[IF SO THEN]..YES I WOULD TOO HAVE SNAFLED UP..55 CENTS extortion from everyone else/but..didnt[sourgrapes]..10.0OO/THEN=200,000 IN 20 YEARS time*..ALL/FROM/THOSE/SMALL USERS/BIG USERS DID THE MATH.

seE THOSE FACTORY ROOFS/AND Rves on them semi/private-USE/public buILDINGS..SAW/A WAY TO DO..A HUGE CASH CRAB/FOR THE ARTS/AND SPORT STADIUMS/..by/OFF SETTING THEIR HUGe powEr costs/oFf my full Price power billings

you scumare doing treason
how dare \you lot keep pronominal.\//WIN-WIN/LIES

[allrEADY MY POWeR RATE HAS DOUBLED
COAL/.SOLAR PARITY..[SURE/but at what cost?..
who is gETTING THE BIG BUCKS..BY THE HECTARE?..audit their boOK[I HEAR SOME ARE TAKING \OFF peak..at 11 cents/to charge up solar cells/by lights/to sell back at 55 cents/24/7..MINUS THe two hours off peak shuts off.

GREAT ENRON SCAMING
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/05/enron-2-0-wall-street-wants-manipulate-state-energy-markets-just-like-manipulates-every-market.html

AHH YA GOTTA LOVE/pUBLIC-TROUGH/LEECHES;expperteaze/at\NEST FEATHERING
NOW HOW..TO/JUSt\get the coal*price up..TILL 55 CENTS\LOOKS CHEAPER/or..becomes a vague.memory.

YOUR GREAT/kids will reap\the pain
done..by fear mongering spin/of big money\bonus/peed\down the drain.
THINK WHAT OUR./POWER EXPENDITURE.MMIES/USED TO SUPPORT/NO MORE FAMILY Treats/thanks to you greenie/buy-back-freaks.

your scam\MUST/die/your EXCESS..GREED/BEYOND/NEED,,
IS KILLING US/ALL..COMPLICITy\YOUR IGNORANCE/Gullability\is endangering us all..enough=too much,

Abbott wants the carbon tax gone to prop up the Generators.
The householder will get nothing.

The wholsale price of electricity is currently selling for 4.0 cents / kWh. If you take 9% off of 4.0 cents you get .364 cents. So a 1000 kWh of electricity you will get $3.64.

The average kWh / household in AU is 4600 kWh / yr so that means you get a saving of $16.74 / year saving.

Abbott says we will get $550 savings / year. So who is going to pay.

The wind..is always blowing=;..somewhere.
oug,
Yes, I think everyone's aware of that. I was taking about building those turbines, totally made from petroleum, Alloy & fibreglass. Look up the making of these materials & the building of the electricity equipment.
Have a look at those turbines which have burnt down & send some of the most toxic fumes into the atmosphere.
If you really want to reduce toxic emission go back to writing pads, normal phones & don't have bureaucrats fly all over the world by using taxpayer funded frequent flier points. A/c too is a huge consumer of energy. I see government housing A/C's running full bore whilst the bureaucrats are away on some unacceptable junket meeting to increase their allowances to put more of our tax dollars into their super funds. You'd have a heart attack if you knew how many of them there are all over the country. Many are even writing their fishing trip fuel off the tax. Many of them are Greenies & church goers to add insult to injury. You people down in the larger urban areas don't get to see what we in Bush witness. You'd think you're in a Wall Street Café.

NOT REALLy INDY
IF WE WERE IN a wall street cafe
[at least THERE THEY PAy their own bills.]

YES I/HAVE Seen the burned ones/and the twisted/broken ones
the dead birds..and the sPIN..[it wasnt me that said the wIND THING
CAUSE IN europe i know isnt even big enough/to have contineus-WIND

ANYONE WITh brains can see we dont need HUGE TwindOWERS
/WE NEED SMALLER/generators\MUCH LIKE THEM ROOF VENTILATORS
I SIT OVER A FEW OTHER HOMES/THEM THINGS ARE ALLWAYS Turning[AS THE AIR IN THE CEILING WARMS COOLS..etc/plus they last FOREVER/IT couldnnt be too hard/to mounT A GENNY INTo it/REALLY ONLY THE ARMITUER NEEDS SPIN

A saw..in the late 70's..AN AFFAIR MADE FROM OLD SAILS
set/up to catch/the heat/MUCH LIKE a Tipi/ON THE SUN SIDE/WITH A flat back/it purely warmed the air/so the air rising drive TURBNES

But back to this tax thing/i heard clIVE\had to pay his carbon tax..[3 millioN?]..and that poor fellA ISNT A DOUBLE BILLIONARE/BUT NOW down to his last billion/and buys secOND HAND/NOT FUEL EFFICIENT/THAT HE 'created' 40 TONS OF CARBON ferrying ol all gore arround AUSSIE..LAST FEW DAYS

INDEED A SPLENDID PAir/one mning coal
the other buring coal/while he heats his hme WHILE HE IS IN OZ[BUT THANKS BE TO HIS CARBON OFFSETS[READ FREE SOLAR/...its all great/while the sun shines

IM TOLD THAT ENERGY STORAGE;IS HELD BETTER/BY/BEING STORED AS CentTRIFICAL IMPUTus STORGAGE/DEVICE]THAT STORE ThE ENERGY AS MOTION

IT HAS been one of the most controversial taxes in Australia’s history and next month it will finally be gone — or so Tony Abbott hopes.

Yesterday Clive Palmer said his Palmer United Party senators would only support the axing of the carbon tax if legal guarantees were in place to ensure energy companies pass on savings to consumers.

But electricity bills are only expected to make up about $200 of the $550 a year in savings the Prime Minister says households should receive from repeal of the tax.

The savings are also expected to impact prices for transport, water and waste management.

But consumers may not see decreases, particularly for waste management and water prices, depending on where they live.

While Mr Abbott hopes to backdate the carbon tax savings to July 1, it could take months for the charges to come off bills, if at all. There is also uncertainty about whether people will get refunds if tax continues to be charged after this date.

579,
Just for once, could you please get together with all your academic wrong-wing mates & see if you can compose just a few sentences of how YOU would tackle the problem of electricity for the future. I mean some real proposals/ideas rather than just Abbott criticism. If you think electricity is too costly & polluting, what do you suggest should be done to make it cheaper & less polluting ?

/QUOTE..<<..If you think electricity is too costly & polluting, what do you suggest should be done to make it cheaper & less polluting>>

THE PI0NT IS/over time..we have stopped and minimised/the danger-polutants from our air/water..etc[so much so/that all that 'smoke'/shown..on the media/is steam.

but they cant tax steam/no tax stream
so they said/hey c02 isnt visable..its weightness/and\uNSEEN
SO LETS TAX IT BY WeiGTH/THE 'TON'..[aint that fun]

thing is/we improved/and refined coal burning/energy onto an energy grid..to the cost of production..of 4 cents a kilo/watt-hour..yet by clever accounting/pay a few elite mates/who built hectares [miles of free solar income streams/55 cents a kilo-watt

now i think thats obscene/so how to fix things=sue those who set out to screw the rst of you/and sue them and their flunkies/and take back the huge bribes and payoffs/they gave to their old school chums/and their buildings

thats infair terms/no matter how you chose to look at it
4 cents?..as opposed to buying at 55 cents to sell at 23 cents
any reasonable person can see the lie/wrought by fraud science and delusional lobby/feeding off the public trough big time

its a crime
if we all stopped feeding the beast money
the beasty will die/dont pay the power bill..its that simple.
SAY YOU CAN PAY IT OFF...@5 dollars the week./no stuff it/refuse to pay..its odious debt/it polutes everything that it touches/junk bougfht with this stolen/by fraud loot isnt legal/under law.

chickens comming home to roost
keeP a cash reserve on hand/not in thE BANK
I THINK IF YOU PAY BY CREDIT/THEY GET LESS..no stuff it..itS CRIMINAL

TAKE DIRECT ACTION
DONT PAY THE BILL.

Electricity is cheap. The wholsale price of electricity is currently selling for NSW 4.8, QLD 4.0, SA 2.9, TAS 3.1, VIC 4.0 cents / kWh.
Cheap as chips,

Any extras you pay on top of that is retailers costs, said to be 2 cents / kWh. Retailers profit margin around 32 cents / kWh.

If you want it any cheaper you will have to make some noise.

Even though I am not 579, I would like to put my three pennyworths in on the question below.

how YOU would tackle the problem of electricity for the future.. If you think electricity is too costly & polluting, what do you suggest should be done to make it cheaper & less polluting ?

OK; we live in a climate that it so totally right for alternative energy that it is a crime not to use it.
But first off, all power supply should be government owned. The furphy that privatisation brings lower prices due to competition is so wrong I wonder that "they" had the cheek to trot it out.
Then we should continue to add to the over 1 million houses that have rooftop solar. Pay them a price equivalent to the cost of buying it from the grid.
Then set up concentrated solar thermal power stations with molten salt storage.
Set up as many wind turbines as there is space for.
Lastly encourage research into installing wave power at suitable locations.
Problem solved, except for the coal barons.

That should be 2 million houses with solar.

Coal will demise with wind and solar, they are struggling to make ends meet now. Taking off the carbon tax will only give them extra time. This is why abbott wants to shut down the total solar industry.

The coal generators have been investing heavily in wind. All geo thermal wants is investment, there have been 50 wells been drilled to locate the best positions, so if you have some spare cash it will happen.

By the year 2030 without interferance the coal generators will be idle. You know what Hockey thinks of wind turbines. Pay for an ear.

Robert Le Pagé,
2 million solar panels ? What's the heat reflection rate of a solar panel & how much pollution is involved in producing & replacing broken or out of date panels ?
Why doesn't the subject of clean energy as in hydroelectrics ever get brought up ? It'd help with flood mitigation, irrigation, boost tourism enterprise, we could replenish the aquifers etc etc.
There'd be one winner, the environment, the only one that matters.

Some good information here, some bad information.

There two major sources of reflection off a solar cell. The first is off the top surface metals - both the two thick bus bars and the thin fingers that cover the top surface. All incident light off of those is reflected, so the coverage is the amount lost - usually something like 4%.

The second is related to the index mismatch. Any time light passes through an interface with two different index materials there is a reflection.
A good example is the reflection you see off of a glass or water surface. Silicon (the most common solar material) has a very high index - around 4 - so the amount of reflection is quite high.

This is reduced by an anti-reflective coating with intermediate index. You can also use thin film interference to improve the AR coating even more. This is why solar cells appear blue - it is the same reason that a thin film of oil on water causes colors to appear. In this case, green light, which there is a lot of, is absorbed very strongly, and blue less so

When all eastern states get on board with privatised electricity with cross boarder retailers. You will see a big drop in the price of electricity.

Some privatised countries are as little as a few cents / kWh profit we are around 32 cents profit.

Victoria is the only 100% privatised power.
NSW not far behind.

The Renewable Energy Target is a very powerful instrument for emissions reduction," he told 7.30.

"In the first two years in the current set of policies - carbon pricing, Renewable Energy Target, the whole lot of policies in place - emissions fell by 14 per cent in our electricity sector.

"If the current policies are kept in place for the Renewable Energy Target, given what's happening to electricity demand, we'll find that by 2020 emissions in the electricity sector will be down by well over a quarter."

A number of Government MPs have expressed concerns about the RET, which mandates 20 per cent of electricity be sourced from renewables by 2020.

Neither option is perfect but at least an ETS can be used as a global mechanism, as long as nobody can "cook the books" and make it seem that they are achieving bogus targets. We've now dumpedf our own monitoring and advisory groups.

Direct Action is like Highway Patrolman Greg Hunt pulling over the fastest speeders on the road and offering them (our) cash to slow down.
There is no real obligation attached to these handouts or any penalties to be incurred so what is the real incentive to reduce?

The only real way to control emissions is by imposing energy rationing, which puts a national cap on the total amount of production over a specified period.
Each household/business is allocated an amount of available electricity they can buy over a specified period and any surplus can be traded on a local basis.
This can also be extended to fuel.

Again, not a real solution - but what is?

Just ignore it and it will go away. There won't be any significant impact on us right now so let the following generations cope with it as best they can.

Isn't that the right attitude these days?

with abbott wanting to do away with the carbon tax, now we will be paying the poluters. with our money.

The wingeing of the coal generators is why.

It's a bad move. They also want to do away with the RET.

Probably been bought off with one of their payed meetings.