Economists and politicians live in fear of NEGATIVE GROWTH, two quarters of this negative growth and we are plunged into RECESSION, heaven forbid, I assume a whole year of negativity its a DEPRESSION!
Although the Great Depression of 1929 started overnight with no period of negative growth.
I can never understand how our economy can be valued at $ billions one day, and simply by having some 'expert' wave a bunch of figures around have that same economies value reduced by some $ billions or increased, whatever the case may be, because of what those obscure figures say. Example, retail sentiment is down 4 points, therefore the economy is worth $$$ less. It seems to me we rely too much on these non producing Nervous Nellie's and not enough on the industrious hard work of our people.
I recently though what right does some US based non producing Rating Agency have to dictate to Australia, how we should be running our country by threatening to "DOWNGRADE" our rating from AAA to Z unless we do economically as they say! Who are these non producing parasites? I am an admirer of Australia's greatest politician Jack Lang, who was dismissed from office by Governor Game in 1932 for refusing to pay British bond holders, their pound of flesh, (debt that NSW had accrued while helping Britain to fight WWI, ironic isn't it) as he was told to do. Instead Lang choose to try and do something to relieve the pain and suffering of the ordinary people of NSW caused by the Great Depression, a time of over 30% unemployed, for that he was sacked! Makes for interesting reading.

Pericles…. yoohoo…

I wrote:

>> How about a bit of justification. Show us where infrastructure, services and any other QOL factors are significantly better, let alone 2.5 times better than ten years ago.

And tell us: if everything is so much better than it was in 04, why we are so far behind with infrastructure that Abbott has seen it as a top priority, and why are health and education services are always in the news? <<

Well there you go. Pericles is unable to answer this question.

He’s been reminded a couple of times on another thread that he is actively posting on that I have been awaiting a reply. But no, he isn’t going to come back on this one.

So I can only assume that… at long last… after putting up some 70 posts on this thread, that I have managed to get my message over to him that his support for GDP and all that goes with it that we have discussed here, is right off the rails.

You cannot be serious, Ludwig.

>>So I can only assume that… at long last… after putting up some 70 posts on this thread, that I have managed to get my message over to him that his support for GDP and all that goes with it that we have discussed here, is right off the rails.<<

Like so many of your assumptions, this bears absolutely no relation to reality, but instead remains the product of your tortuous logic and wild imagination.

Your simply posing a question does not automatically deserve a response; it would need to be relevant and sensible, and demonstrate a capacity to understand a response. This, unfortunately, does neither:

>>How about a bit of justification. Show us where infrastructure, services and any other QOL factors are significantly better, let alone 2.5 times better than ten years ago. And tell us: if everything is so much better than it was in 04, why we are so far behind with infrastructure that Abbott has seen it as a top priority, and why are health and education services are always in the news? <<

Clearly, you are unable to see how the very phrasing of this "question" demonstrates how pointless it would be trying to even begin to structure a reply. You have shown so little understanding of the concepts that underpin our economy, or the measures that are taken to validate its health, that the phrase "pearls before swine" would only tell one tenth of the story.

Feel free to continue to wallow in the depths of your lack of knowledge on the topic, Ludwig, just do us all a favour and stop pretending that you know what is going on, fiscally speaking.

Tell you what, why don't you just go surfing. Do something that you are good at for a change.

Pericles, why have you bothered responding?

When I prompted you on another thread for a response to my question here, it was clear that you weren’t going to respond, and that you had finished with this thread.

So I wrote a concluding post, which sums it up exactly as I see the situation. And you’ve just reinforced that by responding again, without addressing the question.

You poo-poo me for daring to ask such a question. Well sorry, but that is ridiculous. At this point of our long discussion, it is a perfectly relevant, sensible and proper thing to ask you.

It is very basic. If you can’t answer it… and you apparently can’t… then it really does drastically undermine your whole thesis!

Come on, this is so rudimentary – the ever-increasing GDP, and ever-increasing economy that it indicates is a very good thing, is NOT a very good thing at all in terms of the parameters that really matter – infrastructure, services and our overall standard of living and quality of life!

Pericles, if your whole argument is to have any merit, then you need to be very strong on these basic points. You need to be able to decisively show that infrastructure and services have improved well ahead of the ever-increasing demand exerted by high population growth.

But of course you can’t do this, because increasing GDP and economic growth, which have been accompanied by very high population growth / immigration have just simply NOT achieved what the GDP indicator would have us believe has been achieved or should be achieved.

PS. I did do something that I am very good at today. A lot of birding and a bit of botanical photography, Mt Surprise – Georgetown – Croydon. Out to the Gulf tomorrow. ( :>)

Then I suggest you stick with it, Ludwig.

>>I did do something that I am very good at today. A lot of birding and a bit of botanical photography, Mt Surprise – Georgetown – Croydon. Out to the Gulf tomorrow.<<

You are unable to see that GDP per capita is a perfectly acceptable manner in which to track our increasing prosperity. And it is this attitude that infects every question you ask.

For example:

>>You need to be able to decisively show that infrastructure and services have improved well ahead of the ever-increasing demand exerted by high population growth.<<

The answer to this is that the steady increase of GDP per capita shows conclusively that the impact of immigration on our economy is positive. If you reject this measurement - which is incidentally in use across the globe and is not confined to our specific situation - then no other explanation could possibly satisfy you. Which is why I said "you are unable to see how the very phrasing of this 'question' demonstrates how pointless it would be trying to even begin to structure a reply".

How can I say this? It is like discussing young-earth creationism with someone who rejects all the findings of archaeologists for the past two centuries. If you do not have a grounding in economics, and reject its measurement systems, you are bound to be frustrated by being unable to understand the arguments.

>>...increasing GDP and economic growth, which have been accompanied by very high population growth / immigration have just simply NOT achieved what the GDP indicator would have us believe has been achieved or should be achieved<<

That may be your view. But all the statistics that are in common use to measure our prosperity as a nation, say otherwise.