This is right up there with your best efforts, Ludwig, congratulations.

>>Haaa hahaahaaa haaahaaaaaa ha …… ha ….haaha……….AAAAAAAAAH HAAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHAHAAA!<<

It is always good to have strong, constructive discussions with you, on topics in which you can add your wit, wisdom and undoubted expertise in this manner.

>>Has our economy, which is apparently 250% larger than ten years ago, given us 250% more power to get infrastructure up to scratch, to make the quality of health and education considerably better, to raise our quality of life and environment, or bring us closer to a sustainable society?<<

It has most certainly played a part in doing so. Indeed, far more than a declining GDP would.

But I'm not sure where you are getting your figures from - as far as I can tell, our overall economy, measured in GDP terms, is 150% larger over the ten years, not 250%. But let's not worry about detail, shall we.

It would be interesting for you to consider the alternative, though. What would be our situation here if GDP were to decline by - say - a mere 10%. Would you feel better, or worse off? Would we be able to build more, or fewer, hospitals, schools etc.?

You would do well to take a look at some of the European economies whose GDP has shrunk over the past few years, and ask them the question: would you prefer to live in a growing, or a shrinking economy?

And there's no need to exaggerate.

>>This is the great furphy of our time: that economic growth is the answer to all our ills, end of story.<<

It is definitely one very important component, yes. But no-one in their right mind would isolate it as the only important variable, and certainly wouldn't go so far as to describe it "the answer to all our ills". That's just self-serving hyperbole.

>>But an ever-bigger economy, which has an ever-bigger demand for everything built into it as a fundamental element, is just going to get us NOWHERE!<<

Except better off, of course. [See per capita GDP for details]

Talking about the state of our economy -
the following article may be of interest to those
that are willing to read from sources other than those
of only - NewsCorp Ltd:

http://newmatilda.com/2014/05/26/real-debt-danger

<< Additionally, we must have had quite an increase in population during that 250% period you mentioned (though I haven't looked up the actual figures), so the GDP 'growth' has been spread more widely. >>

That’s the biggie, Saltpetre.

If we had had a moderate rate of immigration over that period, all else being equal, I reckon our economy would be hooting along, in terms of achieving all the improvements that is supposed to achieve.

<< I can't convince myself that 'growth' and population-increase are co-dependent. >>

They certainly aren’t co-dependent. Although they have been closely correlated in Australia for decades, even through the mining boom.

Of course there is enormous folly in that: massive growth in infrastructure, service and everything else on the supply side of the equation, which is closely correlated to massively increasing demand (population growth), is just pointless!

But if you look at GDP, you will think that it is all fantastic!

<< This is right up there with your best efforts, Ludwig, congratulations. >>

Why thankyou Pericles my friend!

I’m a down-to-earth person. If you say something silly, I’ll let you know about it. If you say something hilarious, I’ll ROFL around for ages…. then I’ll slowly pick myself up,…. fall back on the floor and ROFL some more… then eventually get myself together, and succinctly express my great appreciation of your humour in my follow-up post!

<< It has most certainly played a part in doing so. Indeed, far more than a declining GDP would. >>

Are you sure about that??

This enormous increase in GDP and thus in our economy doesn’t seem to have achieved much at all. Look at infrastructure, services, environment and sustainability. Where are the real improvements?

<< …our overall economy, measured in GDP terms, is 150% larger over the ten years, not 250% >>

Quite right. It is 250% as large as it was in 2004, or 150% larger. Thankyou for the clarification.

<< What would be our situation here if GDP were to decline by - say - a mere 10%. Would you feel better, or worse off? Would we be able to build more, or fewer, hospitals, schools etc.? >>

If our GDP declined by 10% while population growth stayed the same, we’d not be in a good place. But if population growth declined by 20%, we’d be in a better place than if we had an increase in GDP accompanied by the normal rate of increase in population size.

And of course if we had a lower rate of population growth, we wouldn’t need so many new hospitals, schools, etc. We would initially, but then the demand would fall away somewhat in subsequent years.

continued

<< And there's no need to exaggerate - > This is the great furphy of our time: that economic growth is the answer to all our ills, end of story.< >>

No exaggeration there at all. That is exactly how it is. If it wasn’t, then our decisionmakers would understand that massive growth that is underpinned by a massively increasing demand for everything is just bonkers. They apparently don’t understand this most basic of economic principles.

<< It is definitely one very important component, yes. >>

Well I’m pleased you can appreciate that.

<< But no-one in their right mind would isolate it as the only important variable… >>

Sure. There are several other huge things that come into play. Not least the enormous power that the big business profit motive has over our government decisionmakers.

Thank you Foxy, finally an article I can understand about debt. 'The Real Debt Danger' by Ian McAuley in 'NewMatilda'. Unfortunately 'NewMatilda' is not approved for consumption by our mates the 'Usual Suspects' on OLO. These guys exist purely on a bland diet of "Ruperts Rubbish" as fed to them through a daily ingestion of half truths and down right lies they avidly consume freely, complements pf the "Murdoch Mouthpiece", 'News Limited'. With the words of the Profit Rupert ringing in their ears, which are duly reinforced by his disciples Tax Em' Tony and Joe Cockey, the poor unfortunate 'Usual Suspects' live in a fantasy hell of fear and loathing about debt and its implications, totally divorced from the reality of Australia's situation!
Ludwig, thanks for your contribution it makes a lot of sense to me. This business of "growth" which politicians from both sides seem to treat as the ultimate ideal, given the Worlds population explosion can't be SUSTAINABLE! To me, its a bit like, as the balloon gets bigger, the simply solution is to pump more air in, which we all know where that leads in the long term.