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The Forum > General Discussion > Penalty rates

Penalty rates

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....When there are a lot more unemployed than employed workers the power is swayed against the worker, in most situations.

Point taken Phillip, so why did we see the huge increase in wages and conditions when the pendulum was in the opp direction?

Why is it ok then when the worker is the one with the power?

Sorry, times have changed and if we don't allow flexibility back into the workplace, it will cost jobs. The good times are over.
Posted by rehctub, Tuesday, 15 April 2014 11:50:14 AM
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The good times are over. If you listen to Hockey and co that is what they say. But the figures do not stand up. Our economy is moving along nicely. Our GDP has never been so good.
When the mining boom was on they contributed 11 % to GDP. However manufacturing slumped by almost 15 % as a result of labour being bandycooted to work in the mining industry. Since the slump manufacturing has again picked up and our GDP has now surpassed an all time high.
But Hockey is not talking about our GDP. He is talking about the 68 billion he has stacked on since coming to power.
A massive amount of that money is being spent on the refugees, and now finding someone else's airoplane.
Overseas aid is a false economy, they should not be paid cash, foreign aid should be in goods supplied from AU.
So the wares are there to reign in spending without what frogswabble Hockey is talking about.
Posted by 579, Tuesday, 15 April 2014 12:32:21 PM
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I can't see the problem here.

>>With several businesses choosing not to trade over the Easter weekend<<

The key word here is "choosing". No-one is forcing them to stay open and pay penalty rates. Nor are many small businesses, like cafes, prevented from applying a public holiday surcharge, which would seem to re-balance the playing field. Coles and Woolies are in exactly the same boat in terms of costs, and their competition is the corner store that already charges a premium for providing their services.

If the business is profitable, stay open. If it isn't, go home and enjoy a holiday.

Or pay cash to casuals.
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 15 April 2014 12:34:05 PM
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It is sad to see how the discussion about individual freedoms is hijacked by this tired left/right divide as well as by financial interests on both sides of that stupid divide.

The freedom to agree on and carry out whatever arrangements between two (or more) consenting individuals should be sacred. Period.

However, we should bear in mind that this is between individuals - that freedom is irrelevant when one of the parties is an incorporated company, because a company is an artificial construct rather than a sentient being, thus has no natural freedoms.

One note, Rehctub: for all practical purposes, two consenting individuals can already avoid penalty rates - they simply don't need to tell anybody about the details of their deal!

One disturbing aspect specific to "public holidays" is that the government enforces its own social values on the general population, giving unfair privileges to some bodies that it favours such as established Christian churches and the gambling industry. People of other religions have different religious holidays and people of other cultures have much more important dates in their calendar than this immoral horse-racing, yet they do not receive any penalty rates if their employer requests them to work on the dates most dear to them while they are prevented, by penalty rates, from making up for those days on which they are unwilling to work by working on Easter and other dates which means nothing special to them. I am actually surprised that the so-called 'Left' does not pick up on this, especially about the unfair privilege that churches and gamblers receive in collusion with the state.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 15 April 2014 12:42:36 PM
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Dear rehctub,

Penalty rates kept our family going in the
past when my husband started his own business
and we had to rely on my income to stay afloat.
It was very hard going and without penalty
rates I doubt if we would have survived. Pericles
puts it so well, as always, when he points out that
it is a matter of choice for employers if they want
to stay open over Easter. I agree with him. If its
not profitable for them to do so, they should just
enjoy the holiday. Also small businesses like -
restaurants do charge higher prices during these
times - and they certainly don't lose on staying
open.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 15 April 2014 12:52:21 PM
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I can't see what religion has got to do with it. We have here, workers that are expected to work weekends and public holidays as part of normal practice. So penalty rates are part of their wage structure. There are some that believe that this structure is prohibitive, and want to create a working poor for the good of the employer.
FWA set these wages so no one gets exploited, as would be the case with your sacred one on one agreement.
Posted by 579, Tuesday, 15 April 2014 12:55:04 PM
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