Luddy we have plenty of coal, & no rational reason not to use it.

The yanks have been building small self contained nuclear power plants for everything from subs to aircraft carriers. A couple of them in each suburb, & district

As long as we have electricity, most will be OK.

I've always hankered after a Stanley steamer, & with modern pulverized coal boilers, a modern version would handle freight & farming use, & probably a good fun car.

Then there is the old WW11 gas producer. That will drive cars, & clean up all the good country that has gone back to scrub with Beattie's damn fool clearing regulations, treating regrowth as virgin clearing, to buy a few greenie votes.

Haz, perhaps the main difference between us is that you are willing to just let it all happen, believing that we’ll adapt to a new energy regime when we are forced to, while I would love for us to carefully plan for the new energy regime, starting NOW.

As I’ve said previously, within this plan fossil fuels can continue to be a part of our energy requirements for a very long time to come. The less we use them, the longer they’ll last of course.

I think that your desire will end up being extremely painful for a very large portion of the world’s population.

Trouble is, any significant moves to diversify energy regimes and thus reduce fossil fuel usage become extremely difficult to achieve in democracies that are 1. full of people worried first and foremost about their electricity and petrol becoming a little more expensive and 2. full of all-powerful short-term vested-interest big businesses which hold enormous sway over government decionmakers.

So I dare say that you will get your way.

But I do find it strange indeed that someone like you, who presumably has no vested interests… and desires the best possible future at least for Australia and her citizens, holds the views that you do on this subject.

continued

<< Beattie's damn fool clearing regulations, treating regrowth as virgin clearing, to buy a few greenie votes. >>

Oow, them’s fightin words. I was closely involved with the whole tree-clearing business in Qld for a decade. Regrowth was treated in the same manner as old growth vegetation only if it had reached at least 70% original height and at least 50% original cover. By that time, the vegetation was much more akin to a natural ecosystem than to a cleared paddock with low regrowth. If landholders hadn’t been using their country for so long that they allowed it to return to this state, then they could hardly complain about not being able to clear it without it being assessed by vegetation management officers. Then, if it wasn’t an endangered or of concern regional ecosystem, they generally got to clear it anyway. Beattie’s vegetation management legislation was a very good attempt to balance productivity and ecological values throughout Queensland. It stood up for a very long time. It could only have done that with the support of rural community. It would have died if they’d come out unitedly and vehemently against it. And then it all went by the wayside when Newman got into power, with much of the ecologically valuable land again being opened up for clearing. That was a bloody disaster.. and one which we’ve have heard scant little about in the media.

But that’s a discussion far removed from the subject of this thread.

OK lets fight. You say " at 70% the vegetation is more akin to a natural ecosystem than to a cleared paddock. You'd best show me some. All the regrowth I've seen is always overcrowded garbage, mostly wattle, & useless to man or beast.

What right do you have to dictate what someone can do with their own property. What right do you have to interfere with my sons, or other sons birthright.

My son wants to come back here some time in the future. He will not want a pile of useless garbage scrub. I have only a couple of old horses now wandering the place, so only need about 10 acres mostly cleared.

While I would be happy to let the rest go through a cycle of trees/scrub, & be recleared, we can't afford to do that, because of those fool laws. A cycle of timber would be good for the place, bringing back up all the nutrients now too deep for my pasture to reach.

As I can no longer do the work, my son has to use much of his leave, coming back to control the regrowth.

I would like small clumps of shelter trees, but we can't have that incase he wants to grow turf, or small crops. We have to cut everything down before it even becomes useful for fence posts.

The land would be better served if allowed to go out of production, back to trees for moderate periods, then be brought back to production by reclearing.

Academics & city people, mostly with no idea, but a grasping desire to control others have destroyed our ability to do what we know is good for the land.

Thanks mate.

ludwig/PUBLIC SERVANT..<<.2./full of all-powerful short-term vested-interest..big businesses which hold enormous sway..over government decionmakers.>>

Yep from free landgrants..TO GOVT SUBSIDies..bailouts
mates rates..and so much other adgenda..then politICAL ALLIENCES

<<>>perhaps the main difference between us..is that you are willing to just let it all happen,..believing that we’ll adapt to a new energy regime*>>

KEEN WORD USAGE

THEN..<<..when we are forced* to,..while..*I??
THE ROYAL WE OF THE PUBLIC BUSSY BODIE PRIVATISING PUBLIC ASSET..into provate proffit...the big 'i'..<<..would love for us to carefully plan for the new energy regime, starting NOW.>>..aGain/still?

<<>.As I’ve said previously, within this plan fossil fuels can continue to be a part of our energy requirements for a very long time to come. The less we use them, the longer they’ll last of course.>>

HERES AN IDEA..STOP GIFTING
FUEL SUBSIDY FOR petri-dIESEL TO MIners /farmeRS

<<>>I think that your desire will end up being extremely painful for a very large portion of the world’s population.>>>

funny..this comes directly/from the presenty cause of our pAIN
AS The public srvant..of all THAT PRIVATE/PYBLIC THAT GIVES COSts onto us..for their mates privaTE GAIN

YOU ALREADY DOUBLED THE PRICE OF POWER
thus doubled the gst we must pay on top/that goes back tO YOU FEW
WHO SO LOVE TELLING OTHERS WHAT TO DO..i know you just have to have the free solar cells on ya roof/yep without any proof..just as i know you will have a huDE CREDIT..BUILt up/one day you will trurn into owning seqeb..[CAUSE I KNOW PUBLIC CSRERVICE DOES THings like thATR FOR ITS MASTES

JUST LIKE YA FIVE AWAY STADIUMS..AND TENNIS CENTERS and race course training parks to mate..and sell off bulions of dollars in forrestry land reserves for 800 MILLION

JUST LIKE YA PRIVATISED THE PORT/closed down schools..for cash to build oother GOLD PLATED INFASTRUCTURE TO YOUR OWN FRONT DOOR

<<<..Trouble is,,extremely difficult to achieve in democracies that are 1...full of people worried first..and foremost about their electricity..and petrol becoming a..*little more expensive and>>

..YOU ARE LOVING It.
NEST FEATHEring

Hasbeen,
Following your debate with Ludwig with interest and laughter.

How come a practical old coot like you found a few days without power so awfull? For a bloke that has done most things you should have adapted easily, and probably enjoyed the 'camp' set up.

You would be the first bloke I would ask to solve a problem

why install the 12 volt system? Put a caravan plug on your switchboard or outside wall and with a lead and kick the gene over and light everything up.

I suggest you keep the regrowth down, the bureaucrats may change the rules. If the horses get too fat, electric fence a bit off to keep them in.

Don't know about in QLD, but in NSW they will only let you have dams enough to store 10% of the rain that falls on your property. They claim to own the rain. I told them my philosophy was that I owned the rain and I was generous letting them have what I did not require. I did not win though.

Be very careful of the bloke that says: "I'm from the government and here to help