Steven is a heavy weight in the right faction of the ALP.
And in my view lead in the saddle bags of the ALP.
Why would I think that?
Well he helped dump Rudd, and left this country during the recent election.
His hostile and out of control motor mouth acts come often.
He has been reported in the press as being less than impressed at Labors brief false start at reform, letting the rank and file vote for a leader.
Even if he knew the intention was to window dress, let us vote for one then role him!
Labor just must confront this fact.
True believers are not moving.
We must impress those who did not vote for us, Conroy fails that duty every time he speaks.
Shorten a fellow right wing Victorian power broker, saw the result of talking to true believers and ignoring our target, those we must see voting for us.
He blatantly opposed a inquiry in to unions.
Unaware it seems, for such a brilliant ,man, that both unions and party lost by his actions and words.
While the true believers hum solidarity forever, those we must win over gave Bill the long drop.
So how is this Conroy, a clear and habitual scorer of own goals of use to us?
He drives more away than he brings to us he would be dropped by any football coach for his form why do we keep him?
Shorten is lifting and IF he and the party remember we are being judged on our every action by those who we know we need?
Get Conroy a job, out of Federal parliament preferred.

I do not think the man would last minutes in the team of Howard or Hawk.
His recent insulting and needless attack on a senior military man was bound to offend far more than the number his action impressed.
Again a wise party considers all points of view and try,s to win over more than it turns away.

A question could be asked *why the secrecy* but not of a man bound by the rules of his calling to serve the country
Some seem to admire the bully boy tough nut style but in this case the man is a parody of that image.
He should remember his audience is or should be the whole electorate, not the 32 percent who put Labor first last time.

Belly,

I certainly must now give you credit for acknowledging the failures of your party.

On my part I am happy for him to remain as a vocal member of the ALP, as he normally shoots himself in the foot before putting it in his mouth.

Putting the Navy and military in charge of the operation was a master stroke both operationally and politically. Operationally because the military can be relied on to do what is required with integrity and keep their mouths shut. Politically, it put the operation in the hands of a deeply respected institution that is almost beyond reproach. However, the coalition, even in its wildest dreams, did not anticipate the supreme idiocy of Labor's shadow defense minister Conroy. If Morrison had a neon sigh saying "This is a trap" it could not have been more obvious especially after the ABC blunder.

Having already left behind a stinking pile of Dung in the NBN, Conroy in his new defense portfolio launches a planned all out attack on the integrity of a hero and a man with a brilliant record. If he had called Mother Teresa a prostitute he could not have offended more people, especially those in defense that he represents.

The next early Xmas present is from Shorten, who being from the left relies on support from the right faction which is represented by Conroy. What is needed is an apology from Conroy, which he is stubbornly refusing to give, and without it the beating will continue. Just remember Thomson.

Shadow Minister thanks but too know love and a total commitment drives my actions.

He wants to impress on us he is a thug, an educated and sophisticated one but still, while not achieving it that is his style.
I know, *surely the world does?*
My party is suffering from its last 6 years ,its internal white ants and its owners *faction lords*
NSW is a filthy word to great numbers of *active ALP members*know it
And Shortens brief waddle away from reality, his denial of problems in the union movement bought a huge fall in his personal popularity.
recent rise came more as a result of fearing Abbott than liking Bill.
Some one has to confront the aging nature of Labors membership.
Men like this fool Conroy are to blame.
A power broker he over see.s who gets to run for seats and fill the benches with warn out ex union officials who, for the most part know nothing other than to sit down and do as he says.
I feel my private life is suffering because some disagree with my stand demanding true reform and refocus on all Australians not just members.
It remains true we are confronting a year in Hell, Tasmania is lost,for a very long time.
South Australia is too.
NSW FILTH is getting near a hopeful long term prison sentence, [remember however money buys justice]
Thomson too.
A disturbing e mail warns the AWU [not true we informed] Scandal is about to reemerge too.
A Hellish year for us *the true believers*
Who had no role in any of this,Conroy and his like do have roles, if only the attempt to distract every one and cover up our visit to Hell.
It is time we opened up, shouted our true rage and made our voices heard.
Some gee more than most know, are saying in private what I say but.

Labor has a fight on its hands to defend every thing we stand for against a rampant Abbott/Murdock.
Those who think truth is not our most valuable weapon in that fight are yesterdays men/women

Dear Belly,

The following link presents an interesting perspective.
Of Course it's not from The Australian, or any of the
Murdoch news outlets so it won't be acceptable to many
of our posters on this forum who only regard the mainstream
media as "reputable." However, it's worth a read and it
sums things up rather well:

"Public accountability does not stop when men in uniforms
get involved. Given the scandal-prone recent history of
the Australian Defence Force, that's just as well.
General Campbell has many questions to answer. Labor and the
Greens should keep asking them."

http://newmatilda.com/2014/02/27/operational-security-charade

BTW: Quoting another political commentator:

" Our governments are at their best when there is a
vehement contest of ideas...when individuals dissent with the
policies adopted. The strongly argued dissenting case is one
of the great contributions a politician can make to posterity
and to future good policy..."

Only the very, very foolish would continue Foxy's Teflon Tactic of deflecting everything and then repeat the endless broken record (anything does):

Teflon->Broken record->Teflon->Broken record.

Of course the Greens would dearly like Labor to follow someone like (say) Mark Latham with his

Teflon->Angry abuse->Teflon->Angry abuse,

all in a continuous loop.

The chickens always come home to roost.

Foxy,

I can see why you like the New Matilda, you have to look hard to find an author delusional enough to think that the Australian military is "scandal prone" and thus lies about everything, and that calling a upstanding man a liar is a good thing.

Let me get this straight.

You're all for "freedom of speech," except when it suits
you not to be. Then you stoop to personal insults
and the usual accusations. Well, a person has been killed while
in the government's care and the public has a right to know
why this happened, and ensure that it doesn't happen
again. And asking for public accountability seems to be
something we should be debating, as well as asking questions
that need answers. We should not be wasting time in a
political tit-for-tat.

cont'd ...

SM,

Your slurs about New Matilda don't actually wash.
And your reference to them lying about ADF - being
scadal prone - is particularly silly. I don't know
where you do your research but all you had to do is
Google the subject and there's quite a few websites
to choose from on the scandals involving the ADF.
Here's just one"

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/adf-fails-to-shake-its-demons-20130613-2o756.html

Once again, Foxy is dragging a red herring up a dry gulley somewhere.

However, returning to the subject of the thread, it is plain that Belly is right in wishing along with Bill Shorten and others that Conroy would control his mouth. While Greens will be stirring against both sides, it is Labor they really target and undermine to steal their votes.

On Conroy,
<BILL Shorten has extended an olive branch to the senior military official Stephen Conroy accused of taking part in a political cover-up, an attack that has left Labor’s deputy Senate leader facing government demands that he apologise for his remarks, and a rebuke from parliament.

But the Opposition Leader opposed a motion yesterday by Tasmanian independent Andrew Wilkie to “admonish” Senator Conroy over his attack and has refused to make him apologise, arguing that his withdrawal of the remarks is enough.

Defence Force Chief David Hurley said he was surprised at the accusations Senator Conroy made against General Campbell.

“I am pleased these accusations were withdrawn, but unfortunately, once said, the shadow will linger,” General Hurley said.

“Lieutenant General Campbell has a reputation in Canberra, more widely in Australia and overseas of integrity, intellect and studied impartiality.

“He is widely respected across Australia’s political divide.”

As former Labor defence minister Joel Fitzgibbon offered only a guarded defence of Senator Conroy, Mr Shorten said that he had moved to contact General Campbell to express his support and respect.>

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/troops-turn-on-unapologetic-stephen-conroy/story-fn59niix-1226838741648#

One can always expect any issue to bring out the activists and where the ADF is concerned there are some well known pacifist and other activist groups who put their oar in. Goodness knows where the activists loyalties are and many are influenced by Marxism.

A Labor State member who got rolled in 2011, once said to me Conroy is so far right he should quit Labor and join the Liberal Party. I know they have The Mad Monk and Fatty O'Barrell as members, but I think even the Liberals would have to draw the line with Conroy.

@Paul1405, Friday, 28 February 2014 8:29:36 PM

LOL Of course you heard some Labor person say that. Tell us another one do please do.

There are a few of Greens on here who give Labor heaps of stick while cozying up to the Labor stalwarts who apparently would would never wake up even if a brick Council dunny fell on them.

Greens supporters ape the foxy Bob Brown et al who who would put on an *expletive*-eating grin and shove a crate of pineapples up Labor PM Julia Gillard's ample derriere while superficially scolding the LNP. It worked time and time again. Sucker punches, Greens style.

The Greens' target is Labor. The political 'Progressives' target is Labor too and they have done a takeover of the leadership. All that remains is for the wolves in sheep's clothing, the political 'Progressives' and the lunar Greens to dig holes under each other. To make it a three-way, the unions are having a go.

Beach, are you calling me a liar? I so you know what you can do and I don't care what you think. As for the circumstance of why the State member said that to me, it was to do with Australia Post wanting to close a local post office during the 2011 State campaign. Since the PO was right in the middle of the State members seat, and he was already looking rather "uncomfortable" to say the least, he later lost the seat to the Liberal in a landslide. In a private conversation with him I suggested flippantly he get the local Federal member to march down the corridor of Parliament house and bang on the responsible ministers door (Conroy) and tell Conroy this closure was not doing him (State member) any favors as far as reelection went. Flippantly he replied a fat lot of good that would do etc etc about Conroy, he was already well pissed off with his Labor colleagues as he was well aware what was about to happen in a few weeks time. p/s Australia Post act autonomously anyway from the responsible minister. Now you know the fell story.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/corruption-fallout-hits-ofarrell-20140228-33r7p.html
This link is ample evidence room exists on the other side of politics to do just what I do to Labor.
Off topic? no indeed it is not accountability on both sides, and the wish for better is the only path for true believers on any side.
Foxy you know as I do, I have seen it in another thread, some posts are not worth the dirty hands.
Conroy is as Paul says right of Joyce! but too so impressed with his power, stolen from those who put him in the house, he thinks he is the Labor party.
I refuse to sit still mouthing words of support while those we need most march away from us voters.
I could put ten links a month together questioning Libs/Nats actions naming those forced out of the Ministry even house, and those thought to be close to going.

In the end our lack of open concern is powering bad out comes from bad candidates on both sides.
And too, without doubt, showing what fools those we continue to support after all think we are.
Trouble is apparently for at least Conservatives here and Labors few Ostriches they are right
Only a true return to policy's and actions that most want is going to get Labor back in power.
Sitting on past policy's, long ago rejected by voters is noway to achieve change and gain Government.
Given a say it is my view Australians would savagely reject the actions of Labors power brokers from the right/right Unions.
Labors current troubles came from both and Sussex Street gladly fed them from its right wing Castle now a heap of mud in Parramata
!

Paul1405,

No, I didn't say that at all. Whatever you say of course. You do stretch my credulity, but Greens have that effect on most people.

Belly,

You have worn that excuse thin that the 'conservatives' do things too. How is that supposed to excuse Labor and union leaders and those who occupied positions of trust in the formal structure?

The corruption is said to be endemic so what excuse is there for not knowing and not doing something about it? Was everyone wearing blinkers like the old Tooth and Co Clydesdale brewery horses and wads of cotton wool stuffed in their ears? That is as far as the comparison goes - at least the Clydesdales worked and worked honestly at that.

The public is concerned that corruption is curtailed wherever it occurs and that controls are put in place to deter and detect it in the future. What about the audit reports, or wasn't there any of that either?

Waiting for the outcome of the RC.

Foxy,

It is clear that you didn't read what I wrote.

Ben Eltham was trying to suggest that a few sex scandals amongst cadets or other personnel within the tens of thousands meant that the military was untrustworthy. This conclusion is delusional, and reflects the shoddy journalism of this collection of polemics called the New Matilda.

If you have any doubts as to the need for operational security, just read this:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/breaking-the-australian-governments-silence-on-stopping-the-boats-20140228-33r3b.html

The main issue I was highlighting was that most people and all reputable news outlets do not think that the general is "covering up" anything, and think that Conroy is an obnoxious pratt for impugning the integrity of a man far better than himself.

The sanctimonious twitterings of a left wing pin head in a far left blog with almost non existent readership carries no weight.

Beach you said;

"Of course you (Paul1405) heard some Labor person say that. Tell us another one do please do." If that is not calling me a liar, what is? Now you backtrack on what you say "No, I didn't say that at all". Like a cowardly kid, who throws stones, then runs and hides. You are so conceited in your views, you go as far as claiming to "know" what others on here think. I have respect for the majority of posters on this forum, but none for you and your far right rantings about such nonsense as Fabians and other extreme rubbish. Based on your rantings, I believe you are a member one of one those extreme right, half a percent political mobs, such as Australia First. I note you conveniently dodged the question about Jim Saleam. Your views would certainly receive nodding approval from Saleam.
Reading your posts you are a complete, clueless political novice. I doubt you have ever spoken to a "real" politician in your life, and I don't count Jim in that category.

Paul1405,

I am sorry you feel like that. Have a nice day.

SM,

Piers
Akerman's attacks on our former PM, Julia
Gillard, is an example of "good journalism"
is it? His attacks were personal and relentless.
Yet I have never
heard your criticising The Australian newspaper
for that sort of behaviour. On the contrary you
empathesied the credential of their reporters.
Therefore your
arguments concerning New Matilda can't be taken
seriously. Stephen Conroy has ever right as an
MP to ask questions because as I stated earlier
a man has been killed while in the government's
care. And as has been pointed out we do need to know
why this happened and how we can stop it from
happening again. We should not be wasting time in
another Liberal/Labor tit-for-tat. But of course
this is a great diversion for the government and as
always they'll milk it for all it's worth including
bringing patriotism into it. As Federal Opposition
leader Bill Shorten stated:

"They say that patriotism is the last refuge of
scoundrals. And we have been seeing that truism yet again
with the government. Australians that put us here deserve
a bit better than the kindergarten flag waving, faux
patriotism which you guys want to wrap yourselves around."

There are questions to answer and politicians should
keep asking them.

Truth forces me Foxy to say Julia Gillard may yet see trouble ahead.
An email circulated by at least one Labor insider warns of this.
Paul I agree with your thoughts but why feed a troll?
The link above needs addressing, it truly should be Conservatives who do so.
I know, and so do they, how far NSW Labor slipped to think a real chance exists to make Big Barry a once- er is truly stunning.
Remember it is voters not me saying this.

No party that is afraid to l0pok at its own troubles can ever be fit to rule.
Conroy at his very best, is suited only to enter any parliament with a mop or broom in his hands.

Truth forces me Foxy to say Julia Gillard may yet see trouble ahead.
An email circulated by at least one Labor insider warns of this.
Paul I agree with your thoughts but why feed a troll?
The link above needs addressing, it truly should be Conservatives who do so.
I know, and so do they, how far NSW Labor slipped to think a real chance exists to make Big Barry a once- er is truly stunning.
Remember it is voters not me saying this.

No party that is afraid to look at its own troubles can ever be fit to rule.
Conroy at his very best, is suited only to enter any parliament with a mop or broom in his hands.

Dear Belly,

I'm not in a position to make judgements about
Stephen Conroy except to continue to stress
that Conroy's comments may have been impolite,
but the thrust of his questions were legitimate
and he was entitled to make them.

The following link is a rather good one on the topic:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/stephen-conroy-was-targeting-politics-in-play-not-angus-campbell-20140227-33mjj.html

Foxy,

I don't particularly follow Piers, and so have no particular idea to exactly what you are referring. Perhaps a link would help.

However, after Juliar gave Australia an absolute iron clan guarantee that there would be a carbon tax under her government and then ditched her promise in a few weeks, she showed herself to be a dishonest back stabbing weasel beyond contempt to most Australians. Trying to compare her to the straight down the line, high integrity General Campbell is disingenuous in the extreme.

Juliar was so despised that Australians even preferred the return (if temporarily) of the buffoon Rudd.

<Sovereign Borders commander Lieutenant-General Angus Campbell took "extreme offence" when opposition defence spokesman Senator Stephen Conroy accused him of participating in a "political cover-up" at a Senate estimates hearing this week>

Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/stephen-conroy-was-targeting-politics-in-play-not-angus-campbell-20140227-33mjj.html#ixzz2ugjLYEqO

Conroy's outrageous allegation was later withdrawn but he has refused to apologise.

They call the parliament, 'Coward's Castle'.

Foxy sorry but while I greatly value your contributions I disagree totally.
Conroy is both a thug and a mug.
At best.
He constantly damages my party by his rat bag insulting out bursts, *he had every right to question this governments actions*
*And no right to cast a slur on that man, who does only what ordered to.
A straw poll taken on any street would give the same answer.
Few truly know, even care to know, the part he and his then partner in Victorian right wing Labor played in dumping Rudd.
That action bought about Labors defeat.
He seeming to be the kid who owned the bat stormed off overseas and took no part in the election *what is such a traitor doing in the ALP?*
Shorten now leads his reward for axing Rudd then Gillard, Conroy retains his place in shadow cabinet why? he damages my p[arty.
In time he will be given a plum job and leave hope it is soon.
And as the right is all powerful he may even show his true wants, power at any price and take a job working against Labors interests.
Labor stands challenged it is time to reconsider what role we want to play, best ever opposition forever or renew and refocus.
A refocused ALP will not be owned or controlled by idiots like Conroy or hopefully the right.
I watch Shorten for the brilliance I know he has to emerge but too watch over his shoulder for his long term replacement Howes?
I would like to see that.

Dear Belly,

As I stated earlier - I don't know Mr Conroy
so I can't comment on his character or personal
attributes. However, I do believe that Mr Conroy
was not targeting General Angus Campbell but was
looking for answers which he was entitled to do.
Mr Conroy's comments may have been impolite -
but the thrust of his questions were not unexpected
and the General should have been prepared for them
especially as a human death had occurred.

Once again, the following link that I gave earlier
explains the situation rather well:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/stephen-conroy-was-targeting-politics-in-play-not-angus-campbell-20140227-33mjj.html

SM,

I stopped reading after "Juliar."

Foxy,

You are in denial. Here is Conroy's statement and in your approved Sydney Morning Herald newspaper, read it,

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/cant-we-handle-the-truth-conroy-accuses-campbell-of-camp-coverup-20140225-33fsv.html

The remarks were withdrawn but no apology was offered. Coward's Castle. Disgusting.

Foxy I wish it was true and wish too that the public thought it was.
The good old Canberra Times is as unbiased as Pravda.
Having watched the man,saw his words and actions may I remind those Pravda/Times journalists Fox News does it better?

Again we [Labor] must look toward those we wish to vote for us not those Conroy was playing to.
Larakin,s once bought joy and laughter to our side.
Conroy is no larakin just a dill with too much power and too little common sense.

I notice that all the articles that try and airbrush away the boorishness of Conroy's attack don't include his comments for a very obvious reason that it is very difficult to interpret this in any way other than a direct personal attack on Campbell's integrity.

Here are the comments verbatim:

"''I mean seriously, you can't tell us the truth, you can't tell the Australian public the truth because you might upset an international neighbour. That's called a political cover-up,'' he said.

General Campbell replied: ''Senator, I feel I've explained the basis of my decisions …''

Senator Conroy replied: ''That's a political cover-up. You're engaged in a political cover up,'' while interrupting the General.

General Campbell said he took ''extreme offence'' at the comments."

The stunning success of Campbell's operation has left Labor looking very stupid, and Labor would love to sabotage it by rubbing it in the faces of the Indonesians who are clearly happy to quietly co operate. Conroy's boorish attempt to discredit Campbell backfired.

Foxy

"I stopped reading after "Juliar.", I can understand your shame in having such a deceitful PM.

Having read quite a bit on this, including what has been posted on the forum. I am no fan of Conroy, but as an elected representative of us the people, the Senator had every right to question General Campbell in the fashion he did. If for no other reason than a young man, Reza Berati, had been killed om Manus Island, while under Australian guardianship. Compounding the mystery surrounding Renza death are conflicting statements by Minister Morrison,
Campbell is a public servant, in charge of a very responsible action on behalf of us all. Just like any other public servant in a responsible position, Campbell should be open to public scrutiny from our elected representatives.
Granted, the questioning from Conroy was harsh and rather pointed, the issue at the heart of the matter is also rather harsh and pointed. Given the circumstances, I think Conroy had every right to ask the questions he did. If Campbell was a little upset at this line, too bad, its all about getting to the truth of the matter! Some are now seeing the military as sacrosanct and off limits to public scrutiny, this in itself is a dangerous thing.
Conroy as our elected representative, I do not believe has any need to apologize over this.

Paul,

The gaping hole in your attempted whitewashing of Conroy's douchebaggery is that General Campbell is not responsible for the PNG solution (the structure and manning agreements which was set up by Labor).

What Campbell is primarily responsible is the stopping of the boats at sea which has been spectacularly successful with no deaths or serious injuries.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/07/BoatArrivals.gif

Conroy was deliberately going after Campbell personally, and ended up looking more of an idiotic sleazebag than usual.

SM,

Talking about deceit - blaming Senator Conroy for
expressing his frustration with the stubborn refusal
of the government representatives to answer simple questions
and instead having them expound parrot-like replies
should be unacceptable to us all. Blaming the Senator for
doing his job is a diversion and a Liberal tactic to take
attention away from the real and important issues at hand.
What happened to the current government's pre-election
promise of accountability? When in opposition that current
government demanded every answer from the government of
the day. And now that they are in government - suddenly
they are unwilling to answer even the simplest questions
that the electorate deserves to hear.

This makes our democratic process a shamm and is simply
not good enough!

That will be me too Foxy and Paul.
No mate of mine Shadow Minister but in this case he is right.
Conroy was not addressing a public servant,not the man in charge or even who knew.

Take me as you wish, I am biased think the bloke a half wit betrayer of my party and purely filth for the great harm he did in dumping Rudd/being a faction Lord.
But leaving the bias in the bucket at the door remind every one, *only true believers and those concerned by the refugee sarga are on his side*.
*Again one loose cannon on Labors good ship has sent the middle rushing away from us*.
Maths speaks louder than words, get ten who have no intention of leaving the ship on your side.
See hundreds flee says the man was wrong/his words say he was wrong/ polls will remind us, *his actions not refugees became the only story in town*.

Foxy,

What Conroy and the rest of Labor are so frustrated about is that Campbell has shown that everything that Labor stated with regards to border protection was rubbish, and that what the coalition said was true. General Campbell made it crystal clear that releasing sensitive information on the operational issues will jeopardize the operation, and that he would not answer questions in this vein. Asking the same question 100 times will get the same answer.

Conroy to then be a complete douchebag and essentially call Campbell a liar is not his job and he should be fired or demoted for such unprofessional and disgusting behaviour.

Conroy is a Latham and is forever tripped up by his own arrogance, lack of personal insight and lack of self control. How either could get through Labor pre-selection ahead of other worthy contenders who must have been around somewhere is something that could occupy a PhD candidate.

Other political parties have some similar and in the Greens they pop up everywhere like poisonous toadstools. Once through pre-selection they seem to be a protected species. That needs to change, but in the interim all the public can do is keep voting them out.

It is clear that many of the public supporters of Conroy are compelled to disregard the video evidence which is factual and they know that, in their quest to tear down a good man. While sociologists could say a thing or two about that, it is the realm of psychologists and maybe psychiatrists, to explain. Where facts and reason fail...

SM,

We disagree on this and many other issues - no
surprises in that. However this debate should not
be a time wasting debate in another Lib/Labor
tit-for-tat. The electorate deserves better than
that. This debate should not be about the character
of Senator Conroy. I shall repeat that a man has
been killed while in the current government's care.
We should be debating why this happened and how we
can stop it from happening again.

Public accountability does not stop when men in
uniform get involved. The General has many questions
to answer and Members of Parliament should keep
asking them. To quote the old adage, "Don't piss on
my leg and tell me it's raining!"

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/liberal-preselection-vote-a-blow-to-denis-napthine/story-e6frgczx-1226842873629
The link at first glance is a good one for Labor, I rather liked it.

But the last couple of lines spoke a truth I can not deny.
And must, for honesty sake, say, far too many of Labors required future voters understand, and fear about us.
No less than the branches, Australia wide, of my party who know only too well we are voiceless for the most part.
It is our problem Children Sussex Street and Conroy,s of the controlling and heedless right who own the right to select candidates.
Conroy is a pest, we need to get the Flick man in.

SM and Belly,

If as SM said "is that General Campbell is not responsible for the PNG solution"
Then I will accept Conroy had no business asking irrelevant questions of Campbell. But even Generals should be open to public account for their actions. Do you both agree on that?

I also take Foxy's point "stubborn refusal of the government representatives to answer simple questions"
Accountability is paramount, and government secrecy is unacceptable. Someone needs to answer questions about the circumstance that lead to Reza Berati death. At the moment I smell a rat and it leads right to Minister Morrison's door!

Foxy,

First I am staggered by your and Labor's breath taking hypocrisy of a deafening silence when between 1000 and 2000 people died at sea under Labor's watch, while demanding answers for a death that occurred during a riot under a system that was set up by Labor.

Yes, there need to be answers, but as with the riots under Labor, an accurate detailed answer is only available after a proper enquiry. Demanding instantaneous answers from a general who is not involved is idiotic in the extreme.

Paul,

Yes generals should be accountable for their actions, but this does not mean that they need to give minute by minute details of their actions so that Labor can sabotage the border control of Australia

SM,

Not good enough Sir!

This latest episode happened on the Liberal Party's
watch and you can't weasel out of it by diverting
to blaming Labor (again). Whatever happened under
Labor was fully publicised and accounted for.
Under this government everything is hush, hush.
And therein lies the difference so stop the BS.
Its so hypocritical. Demanding accountability
from a past government - and yet not being prepared
to be accountable. Sickening! And nobody is buying
this fake, phoney, BS strategy! Get real!

We can not, and should not, put a quantitative value on the life of Reza Berati, every life lost under these circumstances is a tragedy. All I known is a 23 old young man is dead and answers must be forthcoming.
The Greens, with Labor support will instigate a Senate inquiry into the events of February 16-18 on Manus Island.

Foxy,

Not a word of remorse for the up to 2000 people that died under Labor's watch? Do you share the Greens view that "accidents happen" so it is all OK.

The information on the riots at Xmas Island, Nauru, and Villawood all came out months later after an enquiry. The same will happen here.

Paul,

"All I known is a 23 old young man is dead and answers must be forthcoming." Why not wait for the results of the official enquiry. The coalition is not going to have all the answers before this. This senate enquiry is yet another greens stunt that will be as ineffective as all the others.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/premier-denis-napthines-intervention-on-mary-wooldridge-backfires-and-theres-no-plan-b-20140302-33tzn.html
At first glance the link is incidental, but a further look and not so.
Unlikely to ever see the light of day from a conservatives key board it demands a look.
And gives evidence not only my party has controlling factions.
Far more too once read.
I do not think we have taken in both the role and the duty's of a Senior Military man ,the target of Conroy's latest but far from rare, our burst.
Surely much more than most a Military leader under secrecy laws is not free to give information as some think.
And,surely he is as that person, under orders ,and just as as surely it it those who gave him those orders who own any blame.

SM

I have no confidence in the Abbott governments willingness to tell the truth on this matter. The sorry track record of both Abbott and Morrison on asylum seekers is obvious to all but the most blinkered of conservative supporters.
The move by The Greens to set up a Senate Inquiry into the Manus Island carnage is far from a "stunt" but rather an opportunity for an open and transparent investigation into the matter, something the Abbott government have been loathed to undertake from the outset.

Paul,

We can always count on your deliberate ignorance of the English language, which is why the greens can never be trusted.

carnage:

n.
1. the slaughter of a great number of people.
2. Archaic. dead bodies, as of those slain in battle.

The track record of Abbott and Morison is clean. At no point have they lied or tried to deceive. They simply have not given the greens and other hypocritical airheads the minute details they want.

The vapid Sarah Hanson Young who brushed off the deaths of many hundreds at sea now wants a senate inquiry into the riot on Manus, and is not happy at the same level of inquiry that went into the "carnage" at Xmas Island, Nauru, and Villawood.

At least it looks as though Electricity Bill is not stupid enough to participate in the greens theatrics and is unlikely to support this moronic green's stunt.

SM,

The track record of Mr Abbott and Scott Morrison
is not clean. What about the government's legal
and moral responsibilities to those it is
"supporting?"

The following link expresses the concern of most Australians:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/scott-morrison-all-at-sea-over-asylum-solution-20140219-3318v.html

SM,

I see you have installed Dictionary Online, so as not to offend you sensibilities, you may substitute the word PICNIC for CARNAGE in my post.
While your at it, giving me an English lesson, what is a good word to use for something that is obviously a 'contrition in terms', like for example someone was to say;
"The track record of Abbott and Morison is clean." The words ABBOTT and MORRISON cannot be used in the same sentence as the word CLEAN. a word that sounds a lot like moron springs to mind.

Foxy,

Bruce Haigh being a far left bleeding heart refugee activist, is further to the left than the Labor party, and represents an ever shrinking group of ideologues that think that open borders is the right thing to do.

BH has railed against immigration detention, TPVs, off shore processings and boat turnarounds, claiming that none of them had any effect or were impossible. More recently he was claiming that the coalition's boat turnarounds risked war with Indonesia. So far he has been wrong on every count especially as Indonesia was fully co operative in the first couple of boat turnarounds.

Several polls have been done over the last 5 years and every one strongly favours strong border protection and stopping the boats by about 80% to 20%.

This is closer to what most Australians think:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/turn-back-time-and-political-spin-on-boats-proves-far-from-reality/story-e6frgd0x-1226827608907

"After Labor relaxed the regime, 820 boats arrived carrying 51,870 asylum-seekers and more than 1200 others (that we know of) drowned at sea. Detention centres were opened and filled in every state, asylum-seekers were sent largely unsupported into the community and taxpayers were hit with $10 billion in additional costs."

And quotes from Labor included:

"You know that Tony Abbott’s policy of turning the boats back won’t work,” said soon-to-be immigration minister Chris Bowen before the 2010 election.

Then prime minister Julia Gillard said: “In his own policy document (Tony Abbott) says that the so-called turnaround of boats would only happen, and I quote - ‘where circumstances permit’ - this is an admission that it won’t work.”

Said then defence minister Stephen Smith: “Seven boats were turned back under John Howard and everyone knows it’s not a practical way forward.”

Said Bowen in 2012: “All the advice to us, all the evidence to us from navy and other government agencies, is that it’s completely impractical to turn boats around. Indonesia has said very clearly and repeatedly that they will not accept boat turnarounds, they just won’t co-operate with it and so the big problem with Tony Abbott’s plan is it just doesn't work.”

Every single one was wrong, and 1200 died.

Paul I would not be too concerned at SM sharp words tells more about him than you.
I want to make it clear I do not support the governments silence on this issue.
Surely most Australians do not like or trust them for it.
I however continue to be unconcerned that some pain comes with a successful stop to the boats.
And say, clearly, if a future ALP government can not assure us they will not restart it will not be in government.

For this reason Malaysian solution still seems the cheapest and best, and as a regional effort the long term one.

SM,

Gotta laugh - the usual accusations when somebody dares
to question the politicla actions of the extreme Right.
I guess the same strategy that worked previously -
repeat things often enough and people will come to
believe it - is being tried here again. But guess what -
nobody's buying it! The "we can't discuss on-water activities,"
is no longer working -es[ecially when the activities are on land,
and people
are demanding answers - questions need to be asked.
But keep on wriggling.

Why is it, if you show the slightest bit of humanity about yourself there are some who want to demonise you as a "lefty". Bruce Haigh is such a person, who cops such an undeserved tag. No doubt through his years of working in third world countries, mostly doing an outstanding job on Australia's behalf, Bruce has come to embrace the stance he has on issues, not the least on the question of asylum seekers. I think Bruce Haigh's credentials stack up rather well, when compared to those of Abbott's and Morrison's when it come to the issue of asylum seekers.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/bruce-haigh-28220.html

A good February article by BH in the SMH.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/scott-morrison-all-at-sea-over-asylum-seeker-solution-20140219-3318v.html

Quite frankly most yes most, want an end to the boats.
But too most are concerned at the secrecy being used to cover what?
While we are not told just what is taking place the questions will continue.
And too the chance a scandal will emerge is there for every one to see.
Has some thing taken place that needs hiding?

Conroy, yet again, tread on his bottom lip, the day before yesterday.
Three times he repeated the wrong thought, that the Australian Government had shares in Quantas, sold them bloke a long time ago.

Foxy,

I am using the standard tactic from the conservative of repeating the facts. You are using the standard tactic from the left of ignoring them.

Paul,

Bruce sounds like decent human being, and in doing so he actively pursues a pro asylum seeker agenda. However, he suffers from the same handicap that many bleeding hearts from the left suffer, in that pursuing what he considers to be right, he ignores the unintended consequences of his agenda.

It is acknowledged even by labor, that roughly 1 in 25 making the journey in these leaky boats will die, which has led to the deaths at sea of between 1200 and 2000 in the last 5 years of Labor. To put this in perspective, if your drive to work was as dangerous, you would have about a 50% chance of surviving the first 3 weeks. Similarly, the coalition can claim to have saved about 100 lives over the last 5 months.

Bruce also suffers from another chronic ailment of the left in that he makes predictions and claims based on what he believes rather than on the hard cold facts. You only have to trawl through his older articles on OLO to realise that his predictions and analysis has been nearly 100% wrong.

Foxy have fun!
SM is chuckle worthy!
I invite those who are critical of me and my views to do one thing.
Compare them, honest now, with SM,s.
Media watch ABC you know, has given a slap to Conroy, for his child like rubbish this thread is the subject of.
Worth the grin if you want to watch on the ABC site.

Would that be the same Media Watch that excused the ABC for 'over-reaching' by 'endorsing' the reports of other news outlets. The ABC's shoddy treatment of Australia's navy, remember?

Nah, not worth a look. Media Watch is a waste of taxpayers' money that could be spent on better things.

SM,

According to the recent polls the electorate is no
longer buying into your repetition of
so called "facts." You're going to have to come
up with new tactics - like accountability and
truth versus lies. Hard as that may be for you to do.

Foxy,

The next election is 2.5 years away, the polls are not so much a reflection of voting intention as much as an unhappiness with the bitter medicine that the coalition as promised are delivering.

The coalition have already delivered on stopping the boats, and now need to get the economy back in shape. In 2.5 years the electorate will again have to choose between a rational government and a spendthrift incompetent Labor.

SM,

If you think that the current government's
boat people's strategy is working than you're
privy to more information than the rest of us
are receiving. All we're being fed is rhetoric.
And we're not buying it. As for the government's
competency? Really? In what area have they been
competent. No other government in the entire history
of this country has had as many stuff-ups as this
government, as many back flips, as many "Oh well, these
things happen," moments. So give us all a break and
knock off the BS.

The polls appear to have much more value to SM if they favor his side.
A few more elections will see his side win power in two states but that ends the run.
Most know Labor has still to fix some problems.
But it is all the more stunning to see Victoria/QLD/and even NSW polling badly for his side.
At some point some will look at just why it is so.

On the good side the HSU thief has spent his first day in prison.
Justice demands he get many thousands of such days but cash buys justice.

Foxy,

There have been no illegal boat arrivals in more than 10 weeks. Since the election reporters have been staked around waiting for Abbott to fail, and unless everyone at every port and airport is silent, no illegals have arrived.

Belly,

The polls are bouncing all over the place at the moment. Just be careful of making rash predictions as you have in the past.

SM,

Yes, you're right - they've been dragged back to
Indonesia or shipped to Manus Island but that
doesn't mean that they've stopped coming.

Foxy,

There are no residents of Manus that have not gone through Xmas island, so all the boats have been turned around. The evidence from Indonesia is that the economic refugees have stopped arriving and have started going back home.

While there are some boats trying to come, as the chance of success shrinks to zero, fewer come, with fewer passengers.

Abbott has succeeded where Labor failed dismally.