Dear Mr Hockey
Firstly can I say, I feel your frustration with the financial situation you have inherited from the previous economic vandals.

That being said, it is my view that unless we have some very serious changes to our tax system, any form of reform will be little more than a band aid solution as which ever way we look at it, our economy is headed for a train wreck of monumental proportions, the likes you and I have not seen in our life times.

To this end I must ask, why on earth are we not giving fair air time to a true financial transaction tax, a tax that taxes monetary transactions, as opposed to people.

It is my understanding that such a tax, at a rate of just 2%, will have the ability to remove all other taxes, effectively providing a huge cash injection into the economy, by way of dollars that would have otherwise been paid in the form of PAYG taxes.

In addition, this tax could also see the abolishment of other taxes such as, GST, stamp duty, company tax, pay roll tax, the list goes on.

It would even address issues such as housing affordability.

So why don't we at least put it on the table for serious discussion

i support the motion
its time joe..that YOU PICKED SIDES
your not dumb/you must know how..the money changers KILLED EVERYONE/FRom jesus to jfk/to the 9 dead bankers..'SUICIDED JUST THIS LAST YEAR.

joe..you know the queens coin is debaSED/you know the elites plunderd all the coin silver copper and gold/you know fort knox gold IS LONG GONE

BUT MATE THE ONES WHAT DONE IT..DINE TREASON
MATE RETURN TO The queens coin..[issue it under govt licence]
MATE THE FED CONSTITUTION..STATES SPECIFICLY..only goLD SILVER COIN ARE LAWFULL tender

sO JOE..YOU TAKE BACK..COIN/PAY only in coin
restore the traditional values back into coin

the fiat paper system..is a debt SYSTEM
be brave joe..that 9 billion you gave to the fed

demand it back in coin
fill the COIN..booty into the state coffers
THEN ISSUE IT PROPORTIONALLY..TO EVERY CITIZEN/.VIA COUNCILS
delivered in person/to every person equally/..then once we all got a fair share [in ROPER LEGAL TENDER SILVER GOLD cash coin]..revise the face values of all coin..[globally]..just like we planned/just like obAMA WILL REVEAL/in two weeks/AND WE FORMALIZE AT BRISSIE G20

SO 9 BILLION YOU GAVE FED RESERVE..RETURNS TO THE PEOPLE IN COIN..[PROPER GOLD /SILVER COIN]..TO RETURN THE PROPER [NOT INFLATED]..REPAIR..THE DEBASEMENT/UNDO THE TREASON

THEN IN G20/WE UNDER PIN PAPER NOTES..WITH SEED FROM TREE OF LIFE[WIKISEED/WIKIGELD]/S.U.N/TREATY

THEN DROP ALL TAXES/ALL Fees all service/SCCES CHARGES/TOLLS REGO AND LICENSE COSTS..JUST THE ONE Transaction tax..[2/percent living/BEINGS..4 percent dead/cooperate persons/trusts groups assosiations trusts[tax haven surcharge 8%..cause we know thats only fair

[and thats it]..plus honest lawfull legal tender/coin..for govt GOVERNING FOR THE coMMONWEALTH OF THE LIVING/assistance/pensions ETC

AS ISSUED
BY THE TREASURIES/..AT ANY/EVERY EDUCATION FACILITY

Butch you have picked the wrong govt to enter a transaction tax. That means the bigger the business the more tax you pay. This govt makes the worker pay the tax, and gives cuts to company.

but how would it work..joe
MICRO CHIP THE SAMPLES..

WHEN WE..RE-store/lawfull FACE value..to..existing coin..they will have a hole..in the middle...to hold the chip/the chip..will be of course miCRO..symbolic/and..only be one coin..

CAUSE..ITS law

anyhow the bailout..from top down..has only been..looted
by the top..who hold huge cash reserves/globallY..IN TIme..that junk HYPER/INFLATES COIN..INTO NUTHINNESS..ONCE/THEY..ACTUALLY SPERND..it/its paper value becomes worthless/ZIMBABWE/GERMANY/USA

YOU KNOW IT
WE KNOW IT/THE ..fiat-USA DOLLAR..IS GOING TO GO...BANG BIG TIME
BAILIN GLOBALLY..WILL KILL US ALL..joe we need someone with huge balls
to take away..the riches/COINAGE/valuE..plundered..from us all

[let he..who gain/pay

ie..them 85 individuals..that own half/of everything
ARE YOU WITH THEM?..or half..the WORLDS POOR?
3.500.000,000..of us
or 85?

DOES THAT..INCLUDE YOU>
OF COURSE NOT..BUT MATE..when askeD..TO STAND UP..FOR 3/HALF BILLION
MATE..WHAT DID JOE Do?

SELL-off/to..the 85..MORE Treasure..or..fight-to return/the stolen booty..to..3.5 billion?

BY ONLY 9 BILLION..in lawfull..[un-debased AU/coin]
mate..we do it here..first..with proper gold silver
THE WORLD THEN copies..but SKIPS THE FIRST STEP..[WE GOT REAL GOLD/SILVER..commemortative/COLLECTABLE-COIN/BUT THEY GOT..ITS HARD TO KNOW..the truth..but lets give
the 6 may...the maggi straight a clue.

i come to hrh couRTS..TO RETURN TO HER CONTROL/HER CROWN
[crown=govt/public services [all the common wealths courts forces etc

all sworn to serve and protect..her and her heirs aND SUCCESORS
one united commonweaLTH..UNDER ONE SAME common law..

i come..to offer hrh..the peace..in that the popes 1 and 2 do come and pass on the DUTY OF PETER..TO EDWARD..THAT IN DUE TIME HRH..PASS ON INTACTIO..And unite the two

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6152&page=0#178808

REVALUED FACE Value coin

1 cent becomes 1 dollar/1peso 1lira.1POUND ETC
CENT COIN=$2..face value..IN COper plate?

5 CENT/SILVER PLATE/NICKLE OR PROPER PRE WW2 SILVER
10 CENTS = 10 bucks..20 CENTS..=$20..50=$50..DOLLAR=100/2 DOLLAR=200

24.BILLION DIVIDED INTO 9 BILLION=300..IN COIN/?
SO WE INTRODUCE A 10 DOLLAR Coin..AND A 20 DOLLAR COIN..50 or 100
but these coins are //revised ..DIVIDEND TOKENS/NOT REVEALED BY FACE...BUT REDEEMABLE in coin only.

we round off to the next dollar
lets face it bying by round up..IS FAIR/THEN..
IF ITS REGARDED AS FAIR..NOW.

JOE YOU KNOW WE DONT WANT TO GO..THE SAME Place they sent the 8 to
but their common link is..exchanging money..IE DOLLARS INTO SENSE

JOE CHOSE SIDES MATE

ITS HARD TO KNOW..the truth..but lets give
the 6 may...the maggi straight a clue.

i come to hrh couRTS..TO RETURN TO HER CONTROL/HER CROWN
[crown=govt/public services [all the common wealths courts forces etc

all sworn to serve and protect..her and her heirs aND SUCCESORS
one united commonweaLTH..UNDER ONE SAME common law..

i come..to offer hrh..the peace..in that the popes 1 and 2 do come and pass on the DUTY OF PETER..TO EDWARD..THAT IN DUE TIME HRH..PASS ON INTACTIO..And unite the two

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6152&page=0#178808

Raise the GST. 10% GST raises 1.55 trillion $ so 15% GST would raise
2.220 Trillion $.
But Tony ruled that out. Talk about being hamstrung by foot in mouth disease.

IT DONT EVEN NEED TO be coin
just promise to pay..in sterling silver like bank promissory NOTES
ALL USED TO BE..[IE ESSENTIALLY an IOU/FOR..the SUM certain/in weight certain..in either silver or gold...by current DEBASED face/value's of post decimalisation/coin]

ie 10 cents shall equal 10 Pounds
[WE THE COMMON WEALTH OF AUSTRALIA DO HEREBY..CERTIFY AND ASSURE
THE PAYMENT..TO NAMe vcertain..the amount in coin
to the value of 385 dollars 23 cents..being for CONTINUANCE..FOR THE CONSTITUTED LAWFULLY the settlements of debt

THIS NOTE MAY BE REDEEMEd in coin..via any govt agency/and or educational facility bank.[world wide]

BUT BY INFLATION/..YOUr CROWN FURTHER DEBASED THE QUEENS COIN

I BEG OF YOU JOe the defender of the oppressed
restore to her COMMONERs of here common WEALTH..TRUE
TRADITIONAL//honesT..CASH/ coin/or equivalent OF ITS UNINFLATED/traditional market value..OF THE Weights/quality/quantity..as if.. in silver /gold..WHICH they witness/ ASSEIGE to be.

Butch, your idea for tax reform has merit. But as 579 rightly points out, its not going to carry much favor with Abbotts controllers, the big end of town. Some of whom would start paying a substantial amounts of tax for the first time in their corporate lives!
Seems Treasurer Joe has just wandered out of the financial wilderness and discovered there is a problem with tax minimization in Australia.
Multinationals in particular have been getting away with gross tax minimization in Australia for years, both under Conservative and Labor administrations. It will be interesting to see if Hockey, and the Abbott government for that matter, has the intestinal fortitude to take on big business over tax, I very much doubt it!

Butcher,

Forgive Paul, in the absence of understanding, he reverts to a big business plot against the little man. The rule of thumb that "if it sounds too good to be true, it normally is." applies here.

The problem with the tax as proposed, is that because the tax proposed is about 10s of times the cost presently doing these transactions, there is a huge incentive to avoid the tax, and this is extremely easy in several ways:

1 Move your trades outside the country to an institution outside the tax zone.
2 Don't trade cash, trade digital certificates.
etc.

The EU (excluding the UK) tried to impose a tiny transaction tax recently and it collapsed within weeks. The transactions very quickly moved from Paris and Frankfurt to London, stripping the French and German banks of business, and leading to a financial revolt, and a back down by the EU.

The rise of Bitcoin and other crypto currencies will essentially allow untraceable transactions, making the tax meaningless.

SHADOWS Quote.<<..The EU (excluding the UK) tried to impose a tiny transaction tax recently and it collapsed within weeks. The transactions very quickly moved from Paris and Frankfurt to London, stripping the French and German banks of business, and leading to a financial revolt, and a back down by the EU.>>

thatS WHY PRES OBAMA..ANNOUNCES IT
IN VIDIO Linkage WITH CHINA RUSSIA INDIA INDonesia etc

global trade..needs global ever sight
hrh alone..controls over 1/4 the world domain/via common wealth

thing is..we NEED A GLOBAl plan
either butcHES..OR MINE..PREFERABLY..MY STICK..GETS TRANACTION TAX

ITS THE BIG TRANSACTIONS THAT SHALL KILL US
IF ITS TAXED..IS ONLY FAIR

THOSE front running need only pay at beginning of tHE DAY
Cause share trading really only is betting on the price a share /resource could be/worth..iF IT WAS A REAL SHARE WE WERE BuYING..so share trading houses..tax the largest transaction/only at closing

the better pays at opening..
THERE ARE WAYS TO BE FAIR..BUT THE REVALUATION OF COIN ALONE ALLOWS US ALL TO PAY ALL DEBTS in full..]mate the current system is broke/risking quadrillions on betting if a manipulated price goes up or down..is killing asset building.

579, of cause this type of tax couldn't be a one size fits all, as traders fir example often work on low sigle digit margins, so they would require a different level of tax.

Luckily most larger companies, Woolworths for example, have plenty of data to show their profit margins, so this data coukd be used to determine their applicable tax rare, same goes for service stations selling fuel, howeve this could get messy with grocery items they now sell, however, with computes this is not hard to allocate differing tax levels for products and or services.

So yes, big business don't want this type of tax, but that's tough Titties because we need action, and we need it sooner rather than latter, otherwise we are going to see a serious deterioration in life styles of many.

Paul, as I said to 579, it couldn't be a one size fits all tax.

SM, how do they transfer the money from here to tax havens without using a bank account.

In any case, big business is in melt down so if we don't act they will leave anyway.

In any case, something has to happen because we are headed for a train wreck if we continue down the path we are on and, our tax payers can't be expected to folk out even more taxes., especially given we are receiving less bang for our bucks.

Like you, I am filthy with the mess that previous incompetent mob has left us with, but what's done is done and we must find a way to move on.

I find all talk of tax system changes a bit meaningless really.

It doesn't matter at all how & where the tax is applied, it will filter down to the consumer to pay it.

No matter what system is used, any increase in government tax take will end up being paid by the same people, you & me.

Any increase in government tax take will of course be inflationary, & thus reduce the living standards of those who pay tax.

Rather than find more of our money to spend, I want to see all government cut its expenditure by 20% in all areas, then stand back & watch.

Apart from a few crying bureaucrats, I doubt much would change. A bit of fat removed, & a few blotted empires reduced a little, a few academics flipping burgers, but nothing of any consequence really.

So rather than telling Hockey how to grab more money, lets just tell him to spend less. Fortunately it does appear as if that is his inclination anyway, thank god.

rehctub,
Those "economic vandals" left an economy with a AAA rating, low inflation and rising productivity that was outperforming most of the world.

I realise it may be difficult for some to hold more than a single thought in their head at a time but there is much more to an economy than debt - such as health, infrastructure, employment and social cohesion.

Soon we will be stripped of what's left of our assets to enrich and further empower certain political supporters and the tax burden will be shifted further back onto the poor.

After watching him speak, I think Joe has some anger management issues and his constantly disproven lies about the effects of the Carbon Tax make him look more of a fool.

Again I will say what no one else even bears a thought for (as I have many times on OLO)….

Please, think about the demand side as well as the supply side!!

All the stuff that requires our tax dollars to be spent on it is forever increasing, and very rapidly so.

All basic infrastructure and services need to be constantly duplicated for the ever rapidly growing population! And a great deal of the existing I & S needs to be forever upgraded due to it becoming overburdened.

I wonder how much of our tax budget this consumes. It must be huge!

If we could significantly reduce this factor, then I doubt that we’d need any other sort of tax reform in order to balance the books! If we properly addressed the demand side of the equation, we would probably not need to do anything on the supply side!

One of the most fundamental parts of tax reform and fiscal management that this government needs to do is to lower the rate of increase in the demand for all the stuff that our tax dollars get spent on…. by greatly reducing immigration.

They need to sort out the good growth from the bad growth, and strive to reduce the bad growth as much as possible.

This is surely of the most paramount importance for Joe Hockey and Tony Abbott to come to grips with.

<< So rather than telling Hockey how to grab more money, lets just tell him to spend less >>

YES Hazza!!

And I’ve outlined in my previous post just how we need to do that.

<< Fortunately it does appear as if that is his inclination anyway, thank god. >>

No. His overall inclination is to spend less, mostly on things that really need expenditure…. and not at all in the ways that we should be reducing expenditure - by reducing demand for all the stuff that our tax dollars are spend on… … or at least reducing the rapid increase in demand.

You can't do more with less, with rising population it only stands to reason that you need more funds. Hockey has been saddled with a no more GST from Abbott's pledges in blood.
To try and do more with less will make for a poorer society. They will flog off everything they possibly can. Hospitals and public schools will go, to raise funds to try and look like they are doing something. To do away with the carbon tax is another 6 billion black hole each year the little man will have to pay for.
The car makers are going to leave a 20 billion black hole over five years. Our GDP is 1.552 Trillion $ and rising.
Unemployment is guaranteed to rise, their attempts at stopping immigration is costing 1 million every five minutes, and ongoing.
since they have been there 60 billion $ has been added to our debt in five months. They need to do something, all we hear so far is talk.

rehctub
You have part of the solution but there is more'
1. A tax on the non use of land rather than taking for use. That would mean more production and lower local produce and livestock prices internally and more employment.
2. An increase of 5% in the GST on ALL good and services and 10% on luxury goods.
3. Remove the ability to write profits off against losses in differing businesses and get rid of selling tax losses as a profit.
4. Use the superannuation funds to build low cost housing and necessary infrastructure for nation building.
5. Restore the tariff barriers to protect Australian Industry.
6, There must be more but I can't think of them at the moment.

Ludwig, you & I have been pushing our respective hobby horses for some
time but certainly the pollies are not listening and quite a few here
are also pretty deaf to what we have been saying.

The silly part about it is it can be demonstrated by simple arithmetic.
The government will not act on population because both political parties
see advantage in larger population, for different reasons and they
are able to avoid the abuse they would get if they cut back on immigration.

They ignore and even suppress their own dept reports that warn them of
the risks they are running by continuing their current fuel policies.
This leads them to not put a reservation on natural gas exports as it
would make the Gladstone LNG projects uneconomic.

The policies of both parties on immigration, population and energy
will lead us into a major economic disaster.
There is going to be an economic problem that nothing will avoid but
government policies will make it much worse.

....I realise it may be difficult for some to hold more than a single thought in their head at a time but there is much more to an economy than debt - such as health, infrastructure, employment and social cohesion.

Yes Wobbles, well lest just look at where they left these.

Health, in a mess, despite promises to take over the hospitals if the states couldn't run them efficiently. NDIS, another unfunded dream!

Employment, yep, they did a great job, but hang on, take away the subsidies and the imported labor (457) and just how many jobs did they create. Um, about ZERO!

As for our AAA rating, it's my understanding we had a AAA rating in 06 when we had $20 billion in the bank AND ZERO DEBT. we now have ZERO in the bank and hundreds of billions in debt. What an achievement in just six years.

As for the rest of the world, yes well, we are not exactly comparing apples with apples now, are we!

As I say, economic vandals!

Continued
.....

Continued
.....and his constantly disproven lies about the effects of the Carbon Tax make him look more of a fool.

Did you know the carbon tax cost Qantas $300 million last year?

Do you also know that China is expanding their coal fired power plants, negating any good we are trying to do.

.....To do away with the carbon tax is another 6 billion black hole each year the little man will have to pay for.

579, have you ever considered that the 'little man' is already paying that $6 billion by way of passed on costs.

Chris, businesses don't pay GST and this is one of the fundamental floors in this tax.

Super for infrastructure, great idea, I have said this all along.

Write off etc, Be careful what you wish for because if you deter investment you will cripple the economy and loose just about every non public job out there.

Businesses are not charities. Besides, the ability for investors to write off losses, expenses etc, is what makes living affordable the the masses.

Take away tax write off and we won't be able to afford to live.

rehctub,
I am talking about buying a business that has accumulated tax losses and then using those losses to offset your own liabilities.
I had a woman working for me as a counter jumper. When he marriage broke up over his bad investments in Macadamen nuts and emu feathers all she finished with was a tax loss of 120,000 dollars.
My accountants were able to do a deal with the tax dept. for her to write off, each tax year, the tax on her wages. I could have bought the loss from her and used it myself.
It is a crazy world where a loss can be a profit.

Yes Chris, I am aware of such laws, as the late Kerry Packer made a habit of the practice.

As for being able to write off the losses, this would only be possible if the lady was a sole trader, a dying entity in business these days.

rehctub,
Exactly.
She had a little $2.00 shelf which sold her services to us.

Joe Hockey's decision to increase the debt ceiling by 67 per cent is incredible given the rhetoric the Coalition employed against the previous government about the size of its debt (''Hockey ramps up debt limit'', October 23).

If the new government is all about paying off Labor debt then surely there is no reason to increase the limit on the government's credit card.

On the other hand, this decision also creates another way to view our public debt.

The increase allows us to draw a line in the sand: there is $300 billion of Labor debt and anything above this amount must be seen as Coalition debt.

<< The policies of both parties on immigration, population and energy will lead us into a major economic disaster. >>

Absolutely right Bazz.

You’d never think we have had an economic bonanza with the mining boom for the last decade or more, and that now while it is still rocking along at a good rate, the alarm bells are being rung about the state of the tax base and Federal budget!

What does this say about the basics? About the facilitation of massive population growth? About the never-ending manic promotion of growth per se, without any thought of the need to refine the good growth and eliminated the bad growth as far as possible? About the complete lack of concern regarding the matching of supply and demand and doing it in a sustainable manner?

Their solutions are just more of the same tried and FAILED approach!

They’re still not thinking about sustainability, nor anywhere remotely near it. They haven’t got a chance of balancing the books until they do.

Although the $300 billion was predominantly justifiable debt as a result of getting Australia through the global financial crisis with so little impact, any Coalition increase should be seen as a lack of resolve by a government unable to live within its means.

its funny how our media failed to repORT THIS

http://sherriequestioningall.blogspot.com.au/2014/02/wow-china-let-us-have-it-at-g20-meeting.html

WOW China let the U.S. have it at the G20 meeting that just ended!

The U.S. was complaining and accusing China /rissia iran..
of all sorts of financial mis-doings.

China stood up to the U.S. bullying and told the truth about the U.S. economy and the printing press of the Federal Reserve. They said the U.S. was living off printed money and the U.S. economy was fake and there was nothing really backing the 'prosperity' of the U.S.

China obviously knows the U.S. is running on fumes and was not going to stand for the U.S. trying to bully them. The U.S. is going down in stature in every respect.

OUG, a readable post !
Keep it up and I might start reading your posts again.