The government has no money, what it has is taken by force as taxes.

'Sustainable welfare' must be the euphemism for ordinary citizens bled white by direct and indirect taxes including 'user pays', to support the victim industries.

Targeting disability allows a government to 'save' by forcing vulnerable cases such as people suffering from severe mental conditions such as chronic depression back onto relatives and charities. Also the 'savings' by missed and delayed payments, as legitimate, vulnerable people struggle to comply with the processes of re-application and re-assessment. At the end of the day, the quick-witted who know the system and have advocates working for them will always remain on the guvvy teat.

There is a reluctance to confront and reel back the victim industries that were spawned by the Whitlam government. The PC tail swings the guvvy dog.

It'll never happen, OTB. Those that vote for a living outnumber those that work productively for a living. Those voters are also applying Moar force on the productive to plunder Moar.

The founders of democracy, the Greeks, understood this to be the demise of the system over 2500 years ago. This is where we are today and it will only get worse.

Those voters don't want to work at risk, they wont question why the system is failing only question what schemes they can come up with to ensure its survival. Eventually they will become Moar aggressive in their pursuits as history has shown, hence the oppressive self defense laws.

Margret thatcher said it herself, "Eventually you're going to run out of other people money" The pace at which the voting freeshitters are pillaging the productive workers wealth is at breakneck speed at the moment. prepare accordingly!

579 said;
We had generators laying idle even though it was 5 of the hottest days ever.

No, we did not have generators lying idle, they were sitting there
spinning waiting for the sun to move far enough westward so that the
solar cell output would start to fall.
Spinning away, burning that horrible coal, while keeping ready to
follow the solar cells down their daily curve, if clouds do not come
first.

The problem as I see it is that the average home does not have enough
roof space, together with enough storage with enough efficiency, to
carry the load from 3pm till 9am the next morning.
As for the home units the government is pushing, where do they put the
20 panels for each and every unit in a 100 unit block, to say nothing of their storage banks ?

As I see it the cost of providing every home, factory, office with
enough solar cells and storage would be far greater than using
central generators as we do now.

That's why I say people like 579 go off without thinking it through.
Unfortunately this is the sort of talk you hear all the time.

Rechtub, the maintenance people employed would just be part of the cost of energy.

Rechtub, apparently Belly considers you & I to be some sort of fanatical bomb.

Belly, all the finance in the world means nothing when you are comparing $2 per hour, to $22 per hour. That's the main problem.

onthebeach, at some stage people have to take steps to protect themselves from bad times.

Insurance is available for most people and, if they can't afford it, then that's a personal choice in most cases.

Now of cause you can't bring a system in without a phasing out period, a bit like the pension, and perhaps one option is to allow people to use their super for TPD insurance. At least then, the choice is theirs.

In any case, we must remove some of the fat from welfare.

Bazz, the likes of 579 are dreaming if they think we can run the country on solar.

As for Bellys comment, it is often the view of many people who's life has been provided by another's risk.

Having a job is one thing, creating a job is a whole different ball game and the likes of 579 and Belly are now seeing what poor management does to business confidence and untimely jobs, with Holden being a prime example of union lunacy. Get what you want at any cost.

Well, they have what they wanted, but at the expense of their employer, at least in this country anyway.

Rechtub what are you on about?
Are you saying [not sure what my comment was you remark on] I am a bludger?
Bazz?
Not ever aware of what you are on about what are you commenting on?
In my defense and it was the fate of eldest son in big country family I started full time work at 13.
Had been absent more often than not in the last two years picking fruit or vegys to earn for my family.
I saw increasing waste in welfare, we now have two threads talking about it.
BUT! surely no one here called for starvation for the poor.
A community should be able to get returns for what we pay, not in competition with existing jobs.
That could include but not be limited to, mowing lawns for elderly and those unable to do so.
Under go training for fighting bush fires and floods and be used in such times to help in those events.
The list is only limited by our imagination, not punishment but true work.
Now these things are done by volunteers often very short of numbers.
If fire brigades had the numbers more preventative burning could take place.
I REBUT firmly the thought every recipient is a bludger or lazy.
But last night seeing a man who by his age and free admition he has been on the dole for 28 years see both a policy and the public service who over look his long term holiday just are not working.

Belly; as indicated in my post I was replying to 579, read his.

Rehctub said;
Bazz, the likes of 579 are dreaming if they think we can run the country on solar.

That is true the way 579 meant it.
However, using centralised generation and the grid gives much more
efficiency, imagine a very large solar farm co sited with a coal or
gas or nuclear or geothermal station. The load matching would be a
doddle compared with trying to match individual solar systems everywhere.
Also the maintenance would be a lot cheaper.

Still we were warned about 20 years ago and we took no notice.
If you consider Hubbert's warning we have had 60 years warning and we took no notice.

We got an extra 5 years notice with fracking and we took no notice.

It is now too late, we can play about with solar and wind but there
is no way we can cope with the 20 to 30 years necessary to change
to an alternative energy regime.

Of course a miracle might happen and cold fusion comes good or they
might build a few hundred fusion reactors in the next 5 or 10 years.
You wish !